i would like to start a discussion about the current looting mechanics...

[joe_mcentire 2074]

there are many, if not exclusively videos showing the regular looting process in the following fashion:

• enter area
• open inventory and watch the vicinity window
• run and pick up what you can find
• leave inventory
• turn around and start to run into a different direction
• open inventory....

This is especially true when loot is outside of buildings or in the absence of daylight.

 

Everyone does it and although i really do not like this aspect of the game i'd have to admit that i use it too, quite regularly even. Mostly due to the (current) clunkiness and somewhat crude mechanic but also because it's efficient and no object remains hidden.

 

But does this aspect of the game not contradict the dev's aspired game experience? looting and scavenging is - and for a survival game - should be one of the core features and experiences. Doesn't this take away a good chunk of the experience? finding a battery or three bullets in the midst of a forest floor, in the brush, in the fields? how high are the chances to find something in these scenarios via option A and option B?

 

I would like to see your opinions and maybe even suggestions. Are there better ways to strike a better balance between the two currently implemented ways of looting? Where to draw the line between authentic/realistic? What would be implications and conditions?

 

i am quite curious to hear your opinions.

Edited May 9, 2015 by joe_mcentire

[Steak and Potatoes 13480]

I'm guilty of doing this at times, more so when its night and visibilty is quite low as I do not bump gamma etc.  I'm not sure of a good way around it in general, as majority of the time when not abused it is used to compare current inventory slots, move and repack your gear for maximum storage capacity with desired gear.  As when I tend to pick up bulk items, I have it open to compare the pros and cons of what I am currently carrying to ensure I have the right kits for almost anything.  I suppose if it became limited to just when you do not have enough slots to fit an item it auto loaded up the inventory menu for you to rearrange it would be hard to get around.  Example would be inventory screen is off permanently until you reach a capacity where you can't store the item you want to pick up at which point it would open the inventory menu and allow you to adjust your gear.  However even that could be abused as one could simply run around with one slot left grabbing at vicinty items which are larger thus opening a view to everything on the floor.

[pilgrim* 3514]

Move only in straight lines when the inventory is open, would solve this

 

Because of my keyboard setup,( movement on number pad) I played for a while like this, with - only straight line movement when inventory is open  - not realizing I could do differently. Was not a problem at all. Even now with this corrected I still do the same.

 

You make sure you have slots free before you go in to loot, and I have "interact" on my mousewheel press button; So I can pick up loot, and also open doors with one click.

To find loot - you search for it visually, as Joe says. Plenty of times Ive crawled around floors to see what was stuck under tables. You can still flash open inventory when you are in place, not moving, if you need to check for or to pick up difficult stuff.

And you can still open your inventory and reload while you are running etc

 

But most players would object strongly. I don't think this would be popular at all.

 

xx

Edited May 10, 2015 by pilgrim

[Damnyourdeadman 1045]

This is quite a dilemma...

 

On the one hand,it's unrealistic to plow through a room,looting everything straight from the open vicinity window.

 

On the other hand though,the reticle is not always accurate and some items are impossible to reach while others are bugged behind walls.

Sometimes hard to reach objects are a pain to loot,even through the vicinity option.

 

When the game suffers from clunkness,the vicinity window has proved a worthy ally many times in the past.

So if i were to make a suggestion at this state,it wouldn't be about restrictions for the particular feature.

 

However,i would prefer if the vicinity feature was seperated from the inventory window.

Instead of having the whole inventory window opened while players are moving around,i would suggest forcing players holding down a button to search the vicinity.

Make only the vicinity window pop up and instead of draging and droping,clicking on the item automatically stores it in our inventory.

[Red_Ensign 990]

or at least make this possible for people who remapped movement to their arrow keys.  we can't move at all when inventory is open.

Edited May 10, 2015 by Red_Ensign

[joe_mcentire 2074]

This is quite a dilemma...

 

On the one hand,it's unrealistic to plow through a room,looting everything straight from the open vicinity window.

 

On the other hand though,the reticle is not always accurate and some items are impossible to reach while others are bugged behind walls.

Sometimes hard to reach objects are a pain to loot,even through the vicinity option.

 

When the game suffers from clunkness,the vicinity window has proved a worthy ally many times in the past.

So if i were to make a suggestion at this state,it wouldn't be about restrictions for the particular feature.

 

However,i would prefer if the vicinity feature was seperated from the inventory window.

Instead of having the whole inventory window opened while players are moving around,i would suggest forcing players holding down a button to search the vicinity.

Make only the vicinity window pop up and instead of draging and droping,clicking on the item automatically stores it in our inventory.

i think this would be a pretty solid first step into a good direction. It's a bit tedious honestly that we have to bring "clunkiness" in as a deciding factor, but as the game is still in alpha while in need to provide some playability that's just how it has to work for the time being.

 

That said, provided that the devs would be able to restrict awkward loot placement in the future i could very well foresee looting and scavenging without the need of a vicinity window (vw). Maybe "ban" vws and leave it to the interaction with containers only.

 

This could also allow a much cleaner "real" inventory interface, utilizing the whole space of your display, not only a half, getting rid of the whole tedious and confusing scrolling/mouse wheeling.

 

You effectively don't need a source of light at night to loot whole buildings, without a vw you could still ramp up gamma but it would still be somewhat difficult to loot everything available.

Edited May 9, 2015 by joe_mcentire

[vfxtodd 125]

What I would like to see fixed are the times when you see an item on top of a standalone closet but can't grab it. It seems more glitched then before. Maybe fixed in .56?

Edited May 9, 2015 by BulletGarden

[Private Evans 1303]

Since I think removing or changing the vicinity window would make things only more frustrating and complicated I still plead for loot containers to make things more interesting. At least 50 % of all loot items inside structures could be placed inside boxes, fridges, wardrobes, desks, shelves etc etc. Searching them should take a specific time ( until you can see what's inside) and make of course some noise ( a nice animation would not hurt). Searching in a hurry should make more noise ( nice feature from State of Decay ). Maybe this could even have different stages of searching..from stealthy to vandalism :P

[St. Jimmy 1631]

Well this could be kind of solved if you can't either move or if you move the inventory disappears just like in Arma. But it's an annoying sometimes in the other end so... not sure about that either because we need to manage things on the move inside our own inventories.

 

It's a tricky thing currently because it helps against some current flaws but in the end it can be just a too easy loot tool

[boneboys 7988]

or at least make this possible for people who remapped movement to their arrow keys.  we can move at all when inventory is open.

or make everybody that uses the method (topic) auto sprint  :lol:   :thumbsup: that'll teach em !

Hint :

you can open inventory when sprinting/fast forward if using arrow keys.

[Killawife 599]

What I would like to see fixed are the times when you see an item on top of a standalone closet but can't grab it. It seems more glitched then before. Maybe fixed in .56?

You can usually pick it up if you make room for it in your inventory. Then just point cursor at it and it should highlight.

[B4GEL 175]

Totally agree with your points, running around with the inventory open hoovering gear up sucks.
I don't think the vicinity window is necessary at all, it's useful when stuff is glitched under the floor or invisible but that wont be an issue for ever.

[8bit_Survivor 93]

Perhaps there will be a hybrid system of vicinity and world containers. I don't like the searching system though. I would rather open the cabinet and just look with my own eyes.

A timer/progress bar while searching seems unnecessary and would be contrary to a minimalist HUD/interface (breaking immersion). In the end a middle ground for usability and immersion must be found, good luck devs ;)

Edited May 9, 2015 by 8bit_Survivor

[ColdAtrophy 1850]

I kinda think that this issue is one of alpha in that it will become less necessary as things like loot spawning on top each other and too close together get sorted out. Either way, even if I do pick up an item without the inventory open, I often immediately open the inventory just to be sure that I am satisfied with its placement. 

[emuthreat 2837]

I think the vicinity screen is just fine.  It compensates for the lack of 'touch' in the environment at night time.  

 

Honestly, if you aren't looking at the right height, and in the direction of the object, you won't see it in vicinity. unless you are standing right on top of it.

 

It really isn't like the run-around-and-hoover-up looting of other games; you actually have to be looking at it.

[joe_mcentire 2074]

I kinda think that this issue is one of alpha in that it will become less necessary as things like loot spawning on top each other and too close together get sorted out. Either way, even if I do pick up an item without the inventory open, I often immediately open the inventory just to be sure that I am satisfied with its placement. 

but in this scenario it would perfectly work without the need of a vicinity window. do we actually need the vicinity window everytime we open the inventory? i guess no. a contextualized menu might make sense here. inventory + vw when acting with characters/containers, else inventory only.

[ColdAtrophy 1850]

but in this scenario it would perfectly work without the need of a vicinity window. do we actually need the vicinity window everytime we open the inventory? i guess no. a contextualized menu might make sense here. inventory + vw when acting with characters/containers, else inventory only.

 

I guess I just don't see what the vicinity window takes away from the experience. Do you think people would be less likely to take everything that isn't nailed to the floor? I don't. People would adapt and still take anything of value.

[joe_mcentire 2074]

It really isn't like the run-around-and-hoover-up looting of other games; you actually have to be looking at it.

a solid counter-argument here would be the looting of choppers: you have basically just one plane where objects might spawn (interior of chopper/outside on the ground). The actual height of the pasture should make it very hard to spot single (smaller) objects. 100% of the time people use here the vicinity window. Due to the grass being excluded from this mechanic you are basically looking at all objects lying on the ground, although you might actually see nothing at all at a first glance.

[joe_mcentire 2074]

I guess I just don't see what the vicinity window takes away from the experience. Do you think people would be less likely to take everything that isn't nailed to the floor? I don't. People would adapt and still take anything of value.

yes but you would actually start to loot again: look around, check surroundings more thoroughly, use light sources at night etc. that's the whole point. looting would then again be of more value and weight. not just "gathering coins"

Edited May 10, 2015 by joe_mcentire

[ColdAtrophy 1850]

yes but you would actually start to loot again: look around, check surroundings more thoroughly, use light sources at night etc. that's the whole point. looting would then again be of more value and weight. not just "gathering coins"

 

You've won me over. Anything that makes using the awesome light sources in the game a bit more viable is a win in my books. You are also talking more about he experience of looting and the authenticity that you want it to carry I think, and again I would have to agree that in that sense, the vicinity window does take something away from the experience. Not everyone is going to feel that way about it though and that may include the designers. Just keep that in mind.

[ImageCtrl 719]

Where to draw the line between authentic/realistic?

Atm all is ok (open inventory) because some loot is in the ground etc.

 

For the finished product the "ground inventar" should not exist in my opinion. Point cursor at the item and pick it up.

[Katana67 2907]

Certain things need to happen for the vicinity window to be less attractive...

 

1. Loot actually needs to be visible, not clipping through walls/furniture. Bullets are incredibly guilty of this, plus it causes me to linger just banging around the walls to find every scrap of loot that's hidden underneath a floor or somesuch.

 

2. Loot needs to be spawning in more appropriate areas. I get that they want us looking under every rock and in every nook/cranny, but hell, it's such a chore going prone in the tiny-ass barracks buildings just to get that suppressor that's halfway in the floor underneath a bunk.

 

3. The pickup cone for items needs to be changed so that items themselves require less precision to pick up. It's really annoying to have to get your cursor just on those two pixels of a bullet just to pick them up. Hence why vicinity is so attractive.

 

4. Sort of unrelated, but they need to have more pickup animations. It at the very least requires you to look at what you're picking up.

 

Personally, I'd rather they remove the vicinity window and just make looting straightforward. It's really just de-prioritizing them addressing the issues with loot placement, because the vicinity window exists.

Edited May 10, 2015 by Katana67

[vfxtodd 125]

I disagree. The whole point of seeing the vicinity view with the inventory is so you can make sure you actually picked up the item and "pocketed" it. In real life, when you pick something up and put it in your pocket you can "feel" it going into your pocket. You can't "feel" anything in DayZ. In the case of looting, you have to "see" that you're keeping what you're picking up. So, a big screaming "no" to that idea.

Another big giant "no" to the idea of holding a button down while looking for loot to pick up. You already have to press buttons down to pick up loot. Now you want to throw in another button to press or hold down at the same time? You're setting yourself up for a case of carpal tunnel syndrome.

These ideas might "sound" good while thinking about them. But, I truly believe that if implemented you will regret it. Sorry.

[joe_mcentire 2074]

I disagree. The whole point of seeing the vicinity view with the inventory is so you can make sure you actually picked up the item and "pocketed" it. In real life, when you pick something up and put it in your pocket you can "feel" it going into your pocket. You can't "feel" anything in DayZ. In the case of looting, you have to "see" that you're keeping what you're picking up. So, a big screaming "no" to that idea.

i agree with the sentiment that this might inhibit the "housekeeping" aspect of your inventory, but i also think it's a minor issue tbh. Yes, you won't be able to drag the item precisely into the slot where you want it to go, but what hinders you to open the inventory afterwards.

 

Another big giant "no" to the idea of holding a button down while looking for loot to pick up. You already have to press buttons down to pick up loot. Now you want to throw in another button to press or hold down at the same time? You're setting yourself up for a case of carpal tunnel syndrome.

These ideas might "sound" good while thinking about them. But, I truly believe that if implemented you will regret it. Sorry.

I think this offers a rather good trade-off. holding a button at least implies an act of scavenging. We could also go as far - as someone mentioned above - as autoclosing the menu upon the slightest movement. Or why not use the cursor and 1xbuttonclick -> auto-place in inventory, 2xbuttonclick open vw+inventory window?

 

there might be plenty simple solutions.

 

again imo, and maybe i am in a clear minority here, scavenging and everything revolving around such mechanics are core pillars in a survival game and thus, it shall be treated as such.