Third Person View should be Over-the-Shoulder, NOT a bird's eye view.

[Rags! 1966]

I really dislike the Third Person View. Not because it isn't strictly a first person perspective of the world, but because the 3rd Person View in this game is far too advantageous and immersion breaking. I don't have anything against people who like it, and it's kind of sad that on this website I have to make sure some of you people don't take this as a personal attack against you. It's cool to be able to look at your character from some sort of third person perspective to see your gear, your weapon, and even in a more tactical sense...to see how you look in foliage, against a certain wall, or how your character will appear (to a degree) when viewed at another angle. 

 

In real life, we have a situational awareness about our bodies that a video can't truly simulate yet. A third person camera lets us compensate for that lack of awareness and feeling that we have. But I think that the raised and drawn back camera of the game currently is a bit too much because it lets us see too much.

 

I AM NOT ARGUING THAT THE THIRD PERSON VIEW IS UNFAIR. IT IS NOT UNFAIR. IT IS PERFECTLY 100% FAIR.

 

But, I do think that in a game like DayZ, which draws lots of mechanics from realism and which strives to be as gritty and authentic as possible at times...you shouldn't be able to have such a superhuman ability to see above walls and fences, around corners, over cars and obstacles, around trees...etc. Third Person View allows you to keep your hitbox and character safe and sound behind cover while you reap all the benefits of what would normally come from some level of exposure and risk. Laying on roofs and crouching behind cover in most games means that you can't see what your character can't really see, leaving you to rely on intuition and audio clues to make up for your lack of sight lines. 

 

The third person camera just gives to much of an advantage to people who aren't mobile. I understand the concept of "tactical situational self-immobilization", but the current camera, I think, takes that a bit too far and gives you too much to work with. A game like DayZ is all about Risk vs. Reward. The Risk of exposing yourself should reap you the Reward of having a view of your surroundings.

 

My personal preferred remedy? An over the shoulder Third Person Camera, akin to games like Dead Space or Fallout or Resident Evil. These cameras allow you to look at yourself in the third person, but don't let you survey the land like a spy satellite. It would still allow people to look at themselves and check their camouflage and their positioning, after all.

 

"But Rags, if you don't like it, then don't play on Softcore servers!"

 

But I DO like the concept of a third person camera, I just think the implementation is...poor.

 

I understand that the Third Person View is sort of a staple with the game, but when you consider no staple-toting office is complete without a staple remover...

[Rammur 59]

Kind of why they have first and third person servers just saying unfair or not people like the diffrent playstyles.

[q.S Sachiel 470]

Nope.  Hate over the shoulder.

Disadvantages the one side it shows less of.  Many games that incorporate 'cinematic hip cam' or over the shoulder view are quite annoying to me, as i've got to do the zoolander turn to see anything on my blind-side.  May as well wear an eyepatch.  I would foresee this being even more problematic when having your side against a wall.  The camera already 'sucks' to surfaces because the distance offset is reduced by geometry/objects.  Having it fixed to one side would just amplify or focus this issue (though you shouldn't really be 3pp inside buildings or in CQB to be honest).

 

MWO does a 3p cam over the top, but punishes you by actually drawing a drone with blinking red light that hovers in that position, so that other players viewing you can see the drone, and ID you as 3p player.  It also means that cresting a hill betrays your position earlier, and the red strobe increases visibility.

I DO NOT WANT THIS!

MMO's have rear view top; tomb raider coined it as do other adventure RPG/action games because it allows you to both appreciate your player and the scenery.  Games like Fallout 3 had a offset 3pp view that I found cumbersome because it further confused the point at which your character was pointing their weapon.  (3pp already does this, with your weapon being below xhair dependant on angle pitch, but added lateral offset = mind blown).

 

3pp regular servers are for beginners and people who don't want the hardcore experience.

If you want HC you can go to those servers. (i know this is not your argument).  That said, I feel your suggestion, without alternative, would just discourage 3pp in general so we may as well just remove it outright.

 

perhaps put a request/suggestion that multiple camera angles be incorporated and you can set preferred angle in Settings, but I'd rather always have the option of 3pp rear top.

 

I also disagree with 'advantage to those not mobile'.  It certainly benefits the guy prone on the highest point in the area, as he can lie flat without fear of exposure, while having a birds eye view of his surroundings (though he must adjust to fire which can throw you off, disadvantaging you sometimes, yet he will still have 'the jump').  Players clearing a room or area can also use the 3pp to peak without fear of exposure as they rotate the camera on certain angles without clipping onto the door surface.  It staggers your assault, and arguably it's better just to 1pp, gun up and check your corners professionally, but if it's a standoff and you know you can afford to creep then it's just as useful to the person moving about in that manner.

 

edit: in addition to my above point about 'sucking' to walls/surfaces on which the camera lies, then it would stand that the camera may also 'jump' out further on the other side giving, allowing for better 'exploit' around the camera side's corner/doorway than it currently gives.  So double edged sword on that point perhaps.

Edited September 15, 2014 by q.S Sachiel

[nettles 396]

I think this is one of the more elegantly articulated arguments against the current 3rd person camera.  There is currently in the game a FOV slider in the settings.  It would be a very simple fix to lock everyone's FOV to the same close-up degree.    

[Siberian (DayZ) 527]

go play FPV servers..

its really that simple. theres no need to change or force people to your own likes/dislikes

[GriefSlicer (DayZ) 84]

I feel like the current 3rd person has just been slapped on and no effort has been put into it. I reckon they should make it over the shoulder with the option to switch over shoulders with a certain hot key. A great example of the 3pp is arma 3 life that is currently in its closed alpha stage right now. It virtually forces you to switch into first person to get the full feel of situational awareness. 3pp is still there, because without it you feel confined to one view and you really never get to visually see you character which doesn't really help when you want to grow a connection towards your character. Even if the 3pp view is not changed they should at least make it so you have to go into the option menu to change your view from first to third. That would stop people from walking around cities and third personing corners, because if they go into a combat situation they would be basically screwed hence they have to go into the settings to change to 1pp so they can aim and shoot back.

[gibonez 3633]

I say why stop there.

 

Just remove FPv on third person view servers and replace iron sights with a simple crosshair.

[q.S Sachiel 470]

@ grief, arma3/dayz already has this to some degree in that you can only really get fine-accuracy with 1pp.  The crosshair sits at centre of screen, while your weapon sits below the camera angle, so there is an angle of error between xhair and trajectory (amplified at range).  You also need 1pp to accurately identify whether you're going to clip walls or ledges with your round given parallax error like effect (more so in Arma3, where your gun and xhair appear over a ledge/lip but the bullet still catches on the ledge, even when in 1pp).  I also don't think that the depth of field blur happens when you're in 3pp, as the camera isn't clipping through the foliage/grass due to it being elevated above that point (but you'll still see the camera jump around spastically on small movements where the offest is blocked from behind or on rotation, ie: hiding in trees, rotating cam while standing near walls/corners etc...)

 

3pp also rewards players more in that it reduces the screen sway when running/moving without you disabling it in options and then losing it in 1pp. I only got told this recently, but have forced myself to use it as I feel more uncomfortable when gliding around like an ice-skater, esp when not moving particularly fast.

 

You can get around in3pp battles if you really gotta, but ironsights/scoping reduces you to 1pp and you hit jack shit in 3pp hip fire for the most part, unless you're nice and close.

Edited September 15, 2014 by q.S Sachiel

[barnabus 1708]

I don't really have a dog in this fight since I mostly just play in 1st person, BUT, I voted leave it alone precisely because this is not an issue upon which the fate of western civilization rests.  It's just not that important to me either way, but I understand there are people who like it, why ruin their fun?

[Bororm 1156]

There's people who like it, advocate a third option, don't try to change something a ton of people like/have no issue with.

 

The end.

[Rags! 1966]

I don't really have a dog in this fight since I mostly just play in 1st person, BUT, I voted leave it alone precisely because this is not an issue upon which the fate of western civilization rests.  It's just not that important to me either way, but I understand there are people who like it, why ruin their fun?

 

Because schadenfreude is the core of the DayZ experience. 

[Trizzo 632]

Third person objectively leads to stale gameplay. If you want to enjoy that it's up to you. You have no idea what you are missing out on.

Prone and stealth...its a new fucking game, if only you tired it.…

Edited September 15, 2014 by Trizzo

[barnabus 1708]

Because schadenfreude is the core of the DayZ experience. 

LOL.  You want misery?  I think you need to read "The Gift" by Marcel Mauss, now that is misery.

[boneboys 7988]

Do not turn this into a 3rd vs 1st flame fest !

 

Maybe for PS4.

[Beck (DayZ) 1768]

I say why stop there.

 

Just remove FPv on third person view servers and replace iron sights with a simple crosshair.

I've seen your opinion on first person vs third person and truthfully it is not constructive and not considerate of other peoples play styles. I have never seen a thread where anyone supports your idea of a "Forced third person" server, so maybe you should stop suggesting it.

Edited September 15, 2014 by Beck

[gibonez 3633]

I would like to add I am pretty sure there was word that third person view is going to get looked at in the future.

 

I doubt it will stay the same as it is now.

[boneboys 7988]

 "Forced third person" server,

I've talked to R about this in the past, he was not enthusiastic.

The discussion was why so few 1st person servers and how to encourage.

[gibonez 3633]

I've talked to R about this in the past, he was not enthusiastic.

The discussion was why so few 1st person servers and how to encourage.

 

The answer to that is the reliance on peeking around corners.

 

Remove that crutch or diminish the ability for third person to be able to peek over and around corners and people will begin to only play fpv.

[boneboys 7988]

That's another story and I agree, I was commenting on forced 3rd person servers.

I'm at a disadvantage, even when I play on 3rd person servers with my team I stay in 1st.

[anderswhk 23]

I never liked the third person view. It's far too easy to abuse to look around corners. The idea that you can look around corners, but your character aren't exposing himself is not good. 

[alsmir 255]

Looks like it will turn into another flamewar really soon with the usuall whines: 3rd person is for noobs, lets force people into playing 1st person.

 

Honestly, I don't get it OP:

You can choose between 1st person only and 1st/3rd person servers. If you want you can stay on 1st person only forever.

If you don't like 3rd person, don't play it, why the hell suggest changes to it?

 

 

Oh, and btw: I play both types of servers. They aren't that different, so I don't care.

[rybo 171]

Play as you will but I personally feel a large portion of this game is immersion. Being locked in first person increases this dramatically. This is a fundamental in recent video games. FPS titles especially.  I don't ever see 3pp being removed from DayZ due to the game being developed with it. Even back in Mod days. Plus the game is beautiful if you have a nice PC and everyone loves to check out how awesome there characters look, me included.

 

To each his own but I say remove 3pp..

 

Edited: I'll add that an improvement to the 3pp camera is something I truly hope for. Being able to lay down on a roof and watch the street below and many other quirks like this ruin 3pp for me. Everything else about it I love. So it's a love hate relationship that I hope we can be worked out in counseling.

 

I still voted to remove it for immersions sake.

Edited September 17, 2014 by RyBo

[Rags! 1966]

Looks like it will turn into another flamewar really soon with the usuall whines: 3rd person is for noobs, lets force people into playing 1st person.

 

I don't think I said anything vitriolic or flaming in my post here. I didn't call anybody less skilled or question any person's manhood based on what server they play. 

 

 

Honestly, I don't get it OP:

 

This topic does not require your understanding.

 

 

You can choose between 1st person only and 1st/3rd person servers. If you want you can stay on 1st person only forever.

If you don't like 3rd person, don't play it, why the hell suggest changes to it?

 

Because I clearly stated that I like the idea of a third person camera, but thought it was implemented poorly.

 

But to answer your question -->  I will suggest any changes to the game that I personally think will make the game better because I want this game to be as good as it possibly can be. Your opinion and mine might be different on what will make the game best, but if you want to have a discussion about it, then we can have one. But saying things like "Why the hell are you suggesting changes to it?" doesn't do anybody good and discourages discussion on game mechanics. Forums and websites like this are here for the purpose of having players en masse talk and discuss how they think the game could be better. This massive collection of new ideas and opinions can only make the community stronger and the game better.

 

I do not like playing Obliteration mode in Battlefield 4, but that doesn't mean that I shouldn't have opinions on how to make it better. If I suggested a change to that, you couldn't reasonably defend your own position by saying "If you don't like the game mode, why the hell suggest changes to it?". If YOU don't like something, that doesn't mean that you shouldn't ever offer your opinion about how to make it better. That's completely and wholly counter productive. You suggest improvements to things that you think can be improved or that you don't like. 

 

But, I guess we'd better shut down this website! I mean, why the hell suggest changes to something you don't like? It's like we want to offer constructive criticism or give our opinions on possible improvements to the game or something. Ha! What a joke, amirite?

 

That's what amazes me about some of the posts here. I offer a constructive argument for my opinion, and people say "If you don't like it, don't play it and don't suggest things for it because lots of people like how it is.". It's just astounding how counter intuitive that is to the point of this entire website! 

[q.S Sachiel 470]

care care care ;)

 

If they really wanted to iron out 3pp and restrict it slightly while still allowing for a fuller view (at least re peaking over things):

they could just approximate box containing the player, extending farther back than the camera already is (front of box = rear player, head height = top box) and the camera sits at the back of the box, in the 'ceiling'.  So you wouldn't have as much angle over your head, you'd be farther set back, and this would slightly widen your view, but would shrink with each stance (as ceiling approximated at head height).

 

Or you could do what ARMA3 kind of does by fish-bowling the view slightly towards the edges, or Depth of Field bluring the periphery.

 

But these, once again, just discourage 3pp usage, and don't directly encourage 1pp.

I'd personally incentivise 1pp rather than disincentivising 3pp.  You could do this by having certain loot only appearing in HC modes, or a different, intangible benefit.

 

Gotta encourage the playerbase, as the server hosts aren't going to put them up just to have them sit idle and empty.

[alsmir 255]

You can enjoy the game just fine playing on 1pp servers but you rather suggest that everyone is forced to play the game "your way". Whether we like it or not some people like current 3pp. We can either keep bitching about it or happily sit on 1pp servers. Guess which option did I choose?

 

 

Member Since 18 Aug 2014

 

Heh, typical.