Third Person View should be Over-the-Shoulder, NOT a bird's eye view.

[gibonez 3633]

Third person helps me deal with my low FPS. Only use First for fighting and using actions. I like it the way it is, and there are more important things to worry about, like the screwed up loot spawns.

That's just my opinion.

I will politely disagree let me explain.

Peeking over walls has become such a widespread crutch that everyone is using it. This rampant abuse of this crutch had dramatically hurt the gameplay.

No bug, cheat, or exploit has come close to damaging the gameplay on dayz or arma as the abuse of the third person perspective.

Wall peeking completely ruins any chance of stealth and when viewed from a competitive standpoint destroys gameplay.

This has long been a problem in arma and now dayz.

Something has to be done to address it but at the same time outright removal of the perspective is probably not the right approach.

[evil koala 22]

I agree

Easiest fix would be a dynamic camera.

When close to and object the camera zooms super close to your player.

When crouched it lowers to your waist

When prone the camera lowers to your feet

This would make it impossible to use the camera in third person view to see over cover and through walls

 

But you could still see around corners without exposing yourself..

[gibonez 3633]

But you could still see around corners without exposing yourself..

Not if done correctly.

What I'm suggesting would outright make seeing over cover when prone impossible.

Extremely hard when crouched and impossible if you are next to any environmental geometry.

[evil koala 22]

Not if done correctly.

What I'm suggesting would outright make seeing over cover when prone impossible.

Extremely hard when crouched and impossible if you are next to any environmental geometry.

 

I'm not really sure how that would work without zooming into the back of your characters head. Even with over the shoulder you can still see past your character to the sides. I guess I'd have to see what you're talking about to understand.

[gibonez 3633]

I'm not really sure how that would work without zooming into the back of your characters head. Even with over the shoulder you can still see past your character to the sides. I guess I'd have to see what you're talking about to understand.

Well ideally I would lower th camera a few feet keeping it center.

Then when crouched the camera lowers to about waist level and zooms in further.

Finally when prone it lowers to foot level do the only thing you can see is the bottom of your feet.

Of course if you try enough you might be able to use the camera to gain an advantage but it would be far harder especially when in the heat of combat.

A dynamic camera in a sense would eliminate the problems while alienating nobody except those that love the exploit but who cares about them

[Mor (DayZ) 57]

Easiest fix would be a dynamic camera.

When close to and object the camera zooms super close to your player.

When crouched it lowers to your waist

When prone the camera lowers to your feet

This would make it impossible to use the camera in third person view to see over cover and through walls

Wouldn't that make your your camera\crosshair dance uncontrollably when ever you are near object(s)? Is it even possible in this engine?

Can you show an example where something like that has been done well in another game?

 

does counter strike have third person? nope

does real life have third person? nope

does day z need third person? nope

Does your post is constructive or contributes to the topic at hand? nope

Does the majority who play 3rd person care how you feel about it? nope.

Edited November 18, 2014 by Mor

[gibonez 3633]

Wouldn't that make your your camera\crosshair dance uncontrollably when ever you are near object(s)? Is it even possible in this engine?

Can you show an example where something like that has been done well in another game?

Does your post is constructive or contributes to the topic at hand? nope

Does the majority who play 3rd person care how you feel about it? nope.

Well the crosshair is going to be removed.

Also anything is possible with the engine.

As far as games thst do that I can only think of gears of war one it would zoom in close to your character when you hugged a wall to minimized what you could peek .

Say they decide to take a stab at the camera and try to fix it they have a super long time to tweak and adjust it to make sure it's perfect

[Mor (DayZ) 57]

Well the crosshair is going to be removed.

That doesn't address my concern. crosshair or not, having the camera zoom\in out on different body parts, every time you get close to some object, should negatively affect your aiming\orientation, is it not? and might lead to jerky movement when between multiple objects.

 

Also anything is possible with the engine.

As far as games thst do that I can only think of gears of war one it would zoom in close to your character when you hugged a wall to minimized what you could peek .

Theoretically yes, everything is possible, but practically I assume that something like that would require huge amount of work, going over the whole map and fine tune each object facing. Also I am not sure that your 'gears of war' system lends well for dayz/arma type of gameplay. Edited November 18, 2014 by Mor

[Caboose187 (DayZ) 3036]

Jesus, you 3pp people will come up with anything to defend your wall peeking.  

Edited November 18, 2014 by Caboose187

[gibonez 3633]

That doesn't address my concern. crosshair or not, having the camera zoom\in out on different body parts, every time you get close to some object, should negatively affect your aiming\orientation, is it not? and might lead to jerky movement when between multiple objects.

Theoretically yes, everything is possible, but practically I assume that something like that would require huge amount of work, going over the whole map and fine tune each object facing. Also I am not sure that your 'gears of war' system lends well for dayz/arma type of gameplay.

It won't be so bad you shouldn't be shooting in third person anyway.

As for difficulty to add at best a simple camera change would fix it at worst a little bit of code trickery that would be nowhere near as difficult as you think.

Either way the benefit of fixing the crutch and thus fixing gameplay far outweigh the work required.

[Mor (DayZ) 57]

Seems like it would, for example by running near a walls, trees etc your camera will start to zoom-dance, that unless you want to implement something like that action-y 'gears of war' snap-in system you mentioned, for everyone (it would have to be 1st and 3rd person).

[alsmir 255]

Well, this escalated quickly.

 

Reminds me of a discussion I had a long time ago on a private DayZ mod server.

Some dude: "Lets remove military loot from Cherno and Elektro to minimize the deathmatch on the coast"

Me: "How about we let people do whatever they want? If they want to deathmach in Elektro, why force them to do someting different?"

- "Omg, you're one of those scrubs deathmartching in Elektro!"

 

 

How is that different than:

-"3pp is a problem and it needs to be fixed!"

- "I don't care, I play both. If you don't like 3pp you can play on 1pp only servers."

- "Omg, you're a scrub peeking over walls! I can't enjoy my 1pp server, because 3pp is more popular!"

 

So much obsession to force everyone into specific playstyle. One game, one truth, one playstyle?

[Caboose187 (DayZ) 3036]

So much obsession to force everyone into specific playstyle. One game, one truth, one playstyle?

Learn to comprehend what the conversation is about before spewing drivel.

[DocWolf 146]

This is the problem. It's no good saying "if you don't like 3pp then just don't play it" if there are no 1pp servers to play on. People play 3pp because it's easier. They can peek around walls without any risk to themselves, shoot and then run

No, people play 3rd person because they prefer it. Easy, hard...why people keep using such classification for two different playstyles? People go where they enjoy to go. And even if they enjoy playing easymode, why on hell people who dislike it are so vocal in demanding change for something they don't experience?

Are you seriously implying that 3rd person servers "steal" players to 1st person ones and condemn those poor hardcore l33t 1st person heroes to a gameplay full of empty servers? And, even if somehow that happens to be true, are you sure that changing something so many like to satisfy a distinct minority of the playerbase is the right solution?

 

Why do you think the "INCREASED LOOT SPAWN, 24/7 DAY" servers are so popular?

Because a lot of DayZ players are not the sharpest knives in the drawer, and don't know server owners can't modify loot spawn or other game features. They probably think they're playing an updated version of the mod or else. I'm really sorry to be so brutal, but this game community is full of people who does not even understand what kind of produt they bought with their money - an alpha, work in progress version of a future game. Too many players don't read anything about the developing process, don't follow developers updates, don't bother with bug reporting/feature suggestions...I've bee there before. It was the closed beta of a supposedly innovative and ground-breaking MMO, and everything went to hell because players treated the beta like a free playable preview of the game.

And again, I'm sorry to be harsh, but all this verbose debates about 1st person vs 3rd person view? Just players telling other players how they should play. It all boils down to a bafflingly immature "I don't like it, change it now". Every time I see a thread about 1st vs 3rd person server I picture more dull knives falling in the heap.

 

DayZ, even Arma, should never have had a 3pp mode

I don't care about ArmA. Not because it's a bad product, but because is a different product than the one this forum is dedicated to. Here we don't talk about the mod, about ArmA, about God knows what else. We discuss about DayZ standalone, how it's working and how it could be improved. That's all. Using ArmA as a crutch to help argumenting against 3rd person server is pretty pointless - DayZ SA is not the mod of a tactical FPS. It's a videogame on its own.

 

It has no place in a milsim and it has no place in a survival game. I understand why people defend it, and when I play 1pp I sometimes wish I could see my character; but when given the choice between maybe having my gun poking out of a bush and being able to see round walls through a disembodied perspective, I'd rather go with the former. 

 

I'd have no problem with 3pp if it couldn't be used to peek round walls. Hell, I'd play it more myself. For now, as far as I'm concerned, it's an exploit that I'd prefer not to use.

I'm not sure you really understand why people defend it, and I'm sorry to be harsh - you, as a single videogamer, are not in any position to dicatate what has a rightful place in a game genre and what should be left out. I'm not even commenting on the part about 3rd person view (an explicit feature of the game much like colour instead of black and white, scalable detail level or such) is considered an exploit.

Back on topic, people play 3rd person servers because they enjoy it. Pure and simple. They like it, they're customers and they're a lot of people...game designers put 3rd person in. That's all. This is a commercial product, and many people are indirectly telling the manifacturer of this product they like something in it: the manifacturer keep putting that feature in. But here comes a vocal minority of the customers, saying that feature greatly disturb their enjoyment of the product. Change it!

Yeah, sure they will. Don't hold your breath waiting, though: unless 1st person gamers who dislike 3rd person view (wich is a very small part of the gaming community who simply play 1st person servers) become the majority of Bohemia customers...things will not change.

Edited November 18, 2014 by DocWolf

[Mor (DayZ) 57]

No, people play 3rd person because they prefer it. Easy, hard...why people keep using such classification for two different playstyles? People go where they enjoy to go. And even if they enjoy playing easymode, why on hell people who dislike it are so vocal in demanding change for something they don't experience?

Because even though we grow up, many never leave the school yard.. Some of those 1st person "hardcores" wear it as badge of honor and 3rd person popularity either offends their sensibilities or makes them feel left out...

 

This is the problem. It's no good saying "if you don't like 3pp then just don't play it" if there are no 1pp servers to play on.

We are all aware of people preferences, though I am not sure what you want us to do about it.. force people to play with you?

At least I can understand those who don't want to play 1st person, but concerned by the view angle exploits, although I have yet to see a solution which wouldn't be worse then the problem.

Edited November 18, 2014 by Mor

[gibonez 3633]

It really has nothing to do with preference.

It's about finding a fix to wall peeking and exploits that negatively affect gameplay due to the camera poor position.

Yes believe it or not there can be a fix where people keep third person view and at the same time wall peeking and seeing through walls using the view is nearly impossible.

[Jex 1104]

You can enjoy the game just fine playing on 1pp servers but you rather suggest that everyone is forced to play the game "your way". Whether we like it or not some people like current 3pp. We can either keep bitching about it or happily sit on 1pp servers. Guess which option did I choose?

 

 

Heh, typical.

 

Somebody failed at reading comprehension I see. Perhaps before replying to a thread you should PM the OP in future to make sure you actually understand what is being said? Having to read your replies about something that isn't being said just makes this entire thread weird though it's obvious you're a troll - nobody could be this stupid. The date of membership is irrevelant, Go look up what a "Forum" is :)

[Jex 1104]

if this was purely 1st person view, i would not play it. i wouldn't support any game like this that is.

if it was over the shoulder view like the last of us or some other shit arcade game, i would not play it or buy it.

 

"if it works, there is nothing to fix"

 

don't change something that's already good. 

if you feel it's to much of an advantage, play a first person hardcore server only.

 

there are several options for everyone of every skill to enjoy this game.

 

I'm going to say that I don't think you've thought this through much at all and if the game was first person only, you and all the other people saying they wouldn't play it "first person" actually would. The Forest isn't third person so presumably you're going to miss out on playing that because you can;t adapt to the game play? You do know you're a human being right? That saying you're unable to play a game because of a certain view type is lame. You have no issue playing other FPS's I assume so you'd have no issue playing this if it were. To say, if it was only fist person you wouldn't play it is just cutting off your nose to spite your face and I'm amazed that considering what the human race is capable of, that you and other people like you simply cannot or will not adapt to the challenge which is pretty sad when you consider what you're capable of.

[DocWolf 146]

Because even though we grow up, many never leave the school yard.. Some of those 1st person "hardcores" wear it as badge of honor and 3rd person popularity either offends their sensibilities or makes them feel left out...

Mor: you and all the people here advocating a "fix" to 3rd person "exploits" are a small minority inside 1st person players community. Deal with it. And you know why both 3rd and 1st person players look down on this miniority? Because everyone in that group thinks he's special and all others players are poor immature children playing easymode (or people playing hardcore but not raging enough against 3rd person dullards).

 

We are all aware of people preferences, though I am not sure what you want us to do about it.. force people to play with you?

The only people here trying to suggest the "force people play with someone else" angle are, ironically, people who want a "fix" to 3rd person view. As in, people who candidly admit they don't play and don't like 3rd person view but think it's ok asking to modify it (so 1st person servers are not underpopulated, probably, or maybe because 3rd person view is so easymode that its simple existance is painful).

On a more general note: I agree with gibonex. If there's a problem (and that's a very, very big IF), it's simply the ability to bypass walls and corners with creative camera controls. Let the game move automatically the camera closer to the character when facing an obstacle and deal with it - no need for 10+ pages of mouthful, verbose and frankly immature bantering about how much demonically wrong is having a 3rd person view.

[Briljin 102]

Say they decide to take a stab at the camera and try to fix it they have a super long time to tweak and adjust it to make sure it's perfect

 

That is my one and only concern with them trying to "fix" wall peaking.  A change of this size would require a lot of testing and this couldn't be released as so bug ridden feature.   If done correctly it would be a nice improvement (as I really dislike 1pp and wall peaking) but it has to be pretty damn perfect or a large percentage of the player base will be pissed off that you ruined their game experience to deal with something they don't see as an issue.

[BeefBacon 1185]

Are you seriously implying that 3rd person servers "steal" players to 1st person ones and condemn those poor hardcore l33t 1st person heroes to a gameplay full of empty servers?

 

You mean like when I want to play 1pp, can't find a server and end up having to play 3pp?

 

You don't seem to understand the issue. The issue isn't that there is a third-person perspective. The issue isn't that it's unrealistic. The issue is that it can be exploited to the detriment of gameplay. This exploit, however, is a fundamental part of 3pp.

 

It's the same with server hopping and ghosting - a fundamental issue of multiplayer games of this kind. Lots of people server hop. I'd even go so far as to say most people server hop. If the devs, at long last, announced a watertight solution to server hopping how many people do you think would defend it? How many would go "but server hopping is the only way to get loot with this loot system!" or "what if the server I'm on is buggy and I have to hop?" or "what if I want to see how my character blends into the surroundings?" People don't play 3pp for greater tactical awareness or for FoV reasons or any of that nonsense. They play it so they can exploit it. Players prefer 3pp because they have that exploit.

 

 

you, as a single videogamer, are not in any position to dicatate what has a rightful place in a game genre and what should be left out. I'm not even commenting on the part about 3rd person view (an explicit feature of the game much like colour instead of black and white, scalable detail level or such) is considered an exploit.

 

No, but I am entitled to an opinion. As a 'single videogamer' I don't think that AC-130 killstreaks have a place in DayZ either. I'm not 'dictating' anything I'm just voicing my opinion. One could consider scalable LoD an exploit. I think that settings like shadows and grass should have a lowest setting but shouldn't be disabled, but only when the game has reached a suitably optimised state.

 

Using ArmA as a crutch to help argumenting against 3rd person server is pretty pointless - DayZ SA is not the mod of a tactical FPS. It's a videogame on its own.

 

Well then I suppose using Counter-Strike: Source as a baseline when talking about CS:GO is pointless too. Isn't like they have many of the same gamemodes, same maps, same models, same gameplay, similar engines or anything like that. They're games in their own rights and shouldn't be compared. Even better, it's not worth comparing the original Counter-Strike mod to the full game released by Valve later the same year, because the latter is a game in its own right.

 

And again, I'm sorry to be harsh, but all this verbose debates about 1st person vs 3rd person view? Just players telling other players how they should play. It all boils down to a bafflingly immature "I don't like it, change it now". Every time I see a thread about 1st vs 3rd person server I picture more dull knives falling in the heap.

 

Isn't about getting rid of 3pp. It's about making 3pp no longer exploitable. People are indirectly defending the exploit by making other claims about 3pp. The advantages posed by 3pp are outweighed by its disadvantages. Get rid of those disadvantages and we're golden.

 

 

This is a mod for Arma 3 that occludes objects that cannot be seen in first person. Seeing that it's pretty much just a few lines of code it's a little janky, but I'd love to see a polished version of this feature in-game:

 

[Evil Minion 943]

Mor: you and all the people here advocating a "fix" to 3rd person "exploits" are a small minority inside 1st person players community.

Thats because the issue only exists on third person servers where many of the first person players don't play anyways. Just like people who like to play on private servers anyways and thus think its all that is needed to fix server hopping.

 

In fact you are forced to play in third person on third person servers as first person simply is not a viable choice - but your choice of perspective should be based on your personal preference instead of one view giving you severe advantages. Ironically denying that peeking needs to be fixed is actually the same as forcing people into third person mode ("you can do it, too." and te likes) - which is obviously just as bad as forcing people into first persone mode - for some reason thats what people think when they are confronted with peeking.

 

I am pretty sure the majority of players would rather play without peeking but with third person mode. Something some "third person defenders" (that are not defending the view as they try to block any improvements) are in denial about - because they fear their precious third person mode taken away from them. Guys, this won't happen as most of the first person players are only there because of the peeking (so in this reagrd first person servers actually "steal" from third person ones) and would be happy to come back if it was fixed and most of the other players prefer third person over a non-peeking environment.

Edited November 18, 2014 by Evil Minion

[Jex 1104]

Seems to me that the people with a reasonable argument to change something to come to a midway point are being met by a wall of "NO!"

 

There's a little thing called compromise. If I had my way, I'd make it First Person only. Go find another game to play if you don't like it but you won't find a game like DayZ and you'll be back.

 

However, I'm not making the game and I'm willing to compromise on leaving 3pp in but changing it so it cannot be exploited. I don't get why some people here are arguing to keep the exploit in.

[evil koala 22]

No, people play 3rd person because they prefer it. Easy, hard...why people keep using such classification for two different playstyles? People go where they enjoy to go. And even if they enjoy playing easymode, why on hell people who dislike it are so vocal in demanding change for something they don't experience?

Are you seriously implying that 3rd person servers "steal" players to 1st person ones and condemn those poor hardcore l33t 1st person heroes to a gameplay full of empty servers? And, even if somehow that happens to be true, are you sure that changing something so many like to satisfy a distinct minority of the playerbase is the right solution?

 

Because a lot of DayZ players are not the sharpest knives in the drawer, and don't know server owners can't modify loot spawn or other game features. They probably think they're playing an updated version of the mod or else. I'm really sorry to be so brutal, but this game community is full of people who does not even understand what kind of produt they bought with their money - an alpha, work in progress version of a future game. Too many players don't read anything about the developing process, don't follow developers updates, don't bother with bug reporting/feature suggestions...I've bee there before. It was the closed beta of a supposedly innovative and ground-breaking MMO, and everything went to hell because players treated the beta like a free playable preview of the game.

And again, I'm sorry to be harsh, but all this verbose debates about 1st person vs 3rd person view? Just players telling other players how they should play. It all boils down to a bafflingly immature "I don't like it, change it now". Every time I see a thread about 1st vs 3rd person server I picture more dull knives falling in the heap.

 

I don't care about ArmA. Not because it's a bad product, but because is a different product than the one this forum is dedicated to. Here we don't talk about the mod, about ArmA, about God knows what else. We discuss about DayZ standalone, how it's working and how it could be improved. That's all. Using ArmA as a crutch to help argumenting against 3rd person server is pretty pointless - DayZ SA is not the mod of a tactical FPS. It's a videogame on its own.

 

I'm not sure you really understand why people defend it, and I'm sorry to be harsh - you, as a single videogamer, are not in any position to dicatate what has a rightful place in a game genre and what should be left out. I'm not even commenting on the part about 3rd person view (an explicit feature of the game much like colour instead of black and white, scalable detail level or such) is considered an exploit.

Back on topic, people play 3rd person servers because they enjoy it. Pure and simple. They like it, they're customers and they're a lot of people...game designers put 3rd person in. That's all. This is a commercial product, and many people are indirectly telling the manifacturer of this product they like something in it: the manifacturer keep putting that feature in. But here comes a vocal minority of the customers, saying that feature greatly disturb their enjoyment of the product. Change it!

Yeah, sure they will. Don't hold your breath waiting, though: unless 1st person gamers who dislike 3rd person view (wich is a very small part of the gaming community who simply play 1st person servers) become the majority of Bohemia customers...things will not change.

 

I find it interesting that the main reason you defend against any changes to the view system is because "most people prefer it" and in the same breath call them all babbling retards that don't even know what game they purchased and are playing.

Edited November 18, 2014 by Evil Koala

[DocWolf 146]

I find it interesting that the main reason you defend against any changes to the view system is because "most people prefer it" and in the same breath call them all babbling retards that don't even know what game they purchased and are playing.

Never called anyone "babbling retard", but hey...since you and many others are mirror climbing I think some sneaky word-bending was to be expected. Anyway, since you apparently don't know that: people far from being the sharpest knife in the drawer can like good things, you know. They're not limited to bad ones.

Edited November 18, 2014 by DocWolf