Experimental Branch: 0.47 Discussion

[basinox 300]

The adventure of Hobo Matt

 

Once upon a time, there was a hobo called Matt, 

Who crossed the earth barefooted to find his hella rad shoes.

He traveled from the Svetlo north to the Cherno south in a apocalyptic aftermath.

Some would call him a most unfortunate man because his brain farted and he got beaten up by one of his foes,

 

Others would call him Sir Prise, for he found weapons that most survivors can only dream off,

But yet instead of an AKM, or a MP-5 the oddball chose for a Sporter .22 .

Sure the world didn't show him allot of love,

and Miss Fortune was his everlasting foe.

 

Finely he reached the destiny he choose,

Where he decided to check the airfield because probably couldn't hurt.

There in that office he found his hella rad Shoes,

And on that exact moment he collapsed to earth.

 

 

 Anyhow, found it quite ironic how my char died, so I decided to share his story with you guys.

 

If anyone's around the Balota Airstrip on the UK server 25#: There's probably a AKM around there (Threw it away so it may be under the map) and if you find my old char, please bury him with his shoes and Sporter with mag inserted and active his chemlight+flare. feel free to take everything.

[bauertschi 254]

The way I see it, is that it creates a skill gap. Those that are talented and proficient at the controls will end up doing better than a spaz that loses his shit and fumbles with the controls. Just like in a real world environment, coordinated people will perform better at certain physical tasks than a clumsy oaf.

 

A person "talented and profient" at any keyboard mouse user input game will outperform those fumbleing at the same controls. The user input system being intuitiv or a overcomplicated mess has nothing to do with that.

 

Because of all that mouse button rebinding discusson before:

Please don't tell me that those with mice that have 15 buttons should get ingame advantages that are more than an convenience. Having such advantages is not fair, or should I use mouse makros to give me advantages at full auto and bursts? Let's please leave it at a point where keyboard and a normal two button mouse is enough to play DayZ without disadvantages.

 

Of course I accept that there will be future changes and many things may end up working in ways that are more complicated than a simple shooter, but because of neccessity. Let's aim for the easiest most intuitive system that has enough possibilities, please. The char is already not doing what I want it to do, no need to force the issue.

[SFRGaming 718]

A person "talented and profient" at any keyboard mouse user input game will outperform those fumbleing at the same controls. The user input system being intuitiv or a overcomplicated mess has nothing to do with that.

 

Because of all that mouse button rebinding discusson before:

Please don't tell me that those with mice that have 15 buttons should get ingame advantages that are more than an convenience. Having such advantages is not fair, or should I use mouse makros to give me advantages at full auto and bursts? Let's please leave it at a point where keyboard and a normal two button mouse is enough to play DayZ without disadvantages.

 

Of course I accept that there will be future changes and many things may end up working in ways that are more complicated than a simple shooter, but because of neccessity. Let's aim for the easiest most intuitive system that has enough possibilities, please. The char is already not doing what I want it to do, no need to force the issue.

You saying someone having an advantage (due to having more buttons on their mouse) is unfair is a rather lame excuse.

[FREDDIEkillz 18]

Were crash sites really fixed in this exp?

[jubeidok 495]

A person "talented and profient" at any keyboard mouse user input game will outperform those fumbleing at the same controls. The user input system being intuitiv or a overcomplicated mess has nothing to do with that.

 

Because of all that mouse button rebinding discusson before:

Please don't tell me that those with mice that have 15 buttons should get ingame advantages that are more than an convenience. Having such advantages is not fair, or should I use mouse makros to give me advantages at full auto and bursts? Let's please leave it at a point where keyboard and a normal two button mouse is enough to play DayZ without disadvantages.

 

Of course I accept that there will be future changes and many things may end up working in ways that are more complicated than a simple shooter, but because of neccessity. Let's aim for the easiest most intuitive system that has enough possibilities, please. The char is already not doing what I want it to do, no need to force the issue.

 

All you really end up pointing out there, is what happens when a game is dumbed down to meet the needs of the lowest common denominator. The lowest common denominator can still perform admirably alongside the top of the food chain. But what you fail to see is that in those games, the top of the food chain is capped, their abilities capped in order to create this illusion of equality. The truth is however, that the top of the food chain can handle so much more and leave the lowest common denominator behind if given the freedom to do so. The game is attempting to give us that freedom and will most likely continue to do so.

[freethink 984]

This argument reminds me of when people were defending the shaky scopes bug. The controls are a joke atm. They need to be fixed. The little tiny side steps for strafing are obviously wrong. Yeah ok some players will be able to work around that bug better than others but it's not going to be left in.

[FREDDIEkillz 18]

Love how I'm not able to shoot or swing after around 5 minutes of getting in a server.

[St. Jimmy 1631]

Some answers why the movement is like it is now:

 

Question

[–]teapot156

There's literally nothing redeeming about the new movement controls. All of the movement in each respective stance is almost completely nonsensical.

• You cannot enter a standing sprint from a crouch run because you are holding the sprint button already.
• You have to hold the sprint button just to keep up a regular crouched walk
• Raising your weapon immediately restricts your movement to a snail's pace

 

Answer

[–]psychotron42Designer

 

Movement and action controls in general are undergoing changes nowadays. We have clear vision and we know what we want to achieve, however what you are experiencing now is still work in progress.

While standing you have 3 different movement speeds - walk, jog and run. In crouch and prone you have only 2 speeds - walk and jog. Currently default speed for standing stance is jog (as you want by default to move faster and you don't care you are visible and audible), for crouch and prone stances it's walk (as you want to move stealthy). LShift will be the default key to speed up movement - to run while standing, to jog while crouching and lying. You can already bind 'Turbo' (speed up) key to LShift now and try it out, it's more fluid to speed up with it instead of double tapping W (which also stop your character for a sec so it's unwanted behavior).

We are still not decided on changing stances with fastest speed (running while crouching change your stance automatically to standing). It's entirely possible and have some pros, but also have some cons to it - for example you can change your stance by mistake and give away your position, which can be fatal in some situations.

Raising weapons and automatically slowing movement speed it's just a test to motivate player to not run always in active stance no matter what. But anyway active/passive modes will be handled differently so it's irrelevant right now.

 

But it also could be done like before and then do like In Arma 3 people who have weapon raised get fatigued quicker than people who don't.

Though that new one does sound like I could adapt to it. I've already half adapt to it.

Edited July 13, 2014 by St. Jimmy

[boneboys 7988]

What's up with the servers?  Some of them show .45 in the corner when I join them and others say .46?  Also has anyone experienced a lot of hitching/10-15 second freezes?

Current Experimental version is 0.47.124558

Server info may not have been modified to match.

Yes, there are occasional freezes, some of which are quite important.

[bauertschi 254]

You saying someone having an advantage (due to having more buttons on their mouse) is unfair is a rather lame excuse.

 

An opinion is not an excuse, I have a mouse with plenty of buttons, and I use them. As soon as those buttons start to give me real advantage instead of an convinience, I consider that an unfair advantage against others. Usually combined with bad user interface decisions. People have different hardware. I can only guess that I should record macros for AKM and M4 bursts and use them ingame to enhance my accuracy. After all not having a mouse that supports that is "a rather lame excuse". Where to start, where to end...

 

All you really end up pointing out there, is what happens when a game is dumbed down to meet the needs of the lowest common denominator. The lowest common denominator can still perform admirably alongside the top of the food chain. But what you fail to see is that in those games, the top of the food chain is capped, their abilities capped in order to create this illusion of equality. The truth is however, that the top of the food chain can handle so much more and leave the lowest common denominator behind if given the freedom to do so. The game is attempting to give us that freedom and will most likely continue to do so.

 

" ...Of course I accept that there will be future changes and many things may end up working in ways that are more complicated than a simple shooter, but because of neccessity. Let's aim for the easiest most intuitive system that has enough possibilities, please...." <- my text

Don't know if you disagree or missread my text. Let me add a few words to make it clearer: I want "the easiest most intuitive system that has enough possibilities" to do all the many things you can do. <- added that.

 

What dumbs down games is cutting back on possibilities, adding unintuitive controls (usually more complex) when simpler solutions achieve the same is simply disregarding what has been learned about user input in decades.

 

Maybe we are not specific enough here. What is it that you are missing? Now I don't know about you, for me the main problems with user input where really good players could shine is all about movement and fight. I don't think additional options to pick up a can of beans are needed...

 

We have three stances and (at least currently, I think) two speeds in all three. I heard that you can fluidly change the crouch height in Arma 3, may be wrong there, that sounds interesting, but I can not say, how that works.What I don't like when running around with rifles is that there is only that waddleing speed with your rifle raised. Running somewhat faster with be rifle pressed into the shoulder is definitely possible and would add to the game I think. Same for at least somewhat faster movement when looking through sights. The current speed of movement when looking through sights could be done with holding the walk button. I have other problems there, but that is not user input related. Tell me what you think caps the user input possibilities and should be added that would allow the top of the food chain to perform better. But leave out things that would be possible but not used by anyone, an example would be fluid running speeds between the regular jogging and full speed when sprinting. Maybe I am wrong, but I don't think anyone would use that if the disadvantages ( rifle to the side instead of aiming ahead) are the same.

 

Generally I think that compared to other first person games where ppl shoot at each other, such things are very unimportant in DayZ. Your positioning, situational awareness general behaviour play a much bigger role than in games like Battlefield. I guess more movement possibilities would help the top players more in such titles. That does not mean, I am against them, just saying...

[sanguine00 168]

Were crash sites really fixed in this exp?

 

The dev that pushed the latest patch said on Reddit that they were.  After spending considerable time in exp this weekend, I'm beginning to think he was misinformed.

[FREDDIEkillz 18]

Why am I freezing every 5 minutes? Unplayable patch. I really hope it gets fixed. May not though, considering the devs leave the biggest, most obvious bugs in.

A lot of session lost issues. Found 2 guys in Polana and was about to kill them, freeze and then "Session Lost". LOL

Edited July 13, 2014 by FREDDIEkillz

[HIHBGaming 14]

No rubber banding or sessions lost for me but I do get the intermittent 2 to 3 second pause in game. I see people saying they're getting a 10 to even 30 second pauses in game, maybe my SSD or 16gigs of RAM is making a difference in the length of pauses. Just a guess.  

 

I did notice it's more when I'm in or near a town or city.  Will have to test further...

[boneboys 7988]

Why am I freezing every 5 minutes? Unplayable patch. I really hope it gets fixed. May not though, considering the devs leave the biggest, most obvious bugs in.

A lot of session lost issues. Found 2 guys in Polana and was about to kill them, freeze and then "Session Lost". LOL

Did it not occur to you that this.....

"I have an Intel Core i3 3217-U and an Intel HD 4000 graphics card with 32 mb of VRAM and 4GB of RAM."

could be the reason for your troubles ?

You are way under the recommended specs for this game.

 

I understand that not everybody can afford a top of the range computer but please stop moaning and groaning when you don't even have what it takes to run the game !

[FREDDIEkillz 18]

Did it not occur to you that this.....

"I have an Intel Core i3 3217-U and an Intel HD 4000 graphics card with 32 mb of VRAM and 4GB of RAM."

could be the reason for your troubles ?

You are way under the recommended specs for this game.

I understand that not everybody can afford a top of the range computer but please stop moaning and groaning when you don't even have what it takes to run the game !

Yes, I know that. It was fine last patch and I'm sure other people with better rigs are having the same issues as me. Don't blame it on my PC. It's the patch and you know it. Look at the other people in this thread with similar issues. I may have been exaggerating a bit. More like freezes every 20-30 mins or so. Edited July 13, 2014 by FREDDIEkillz

[Irish. 4886]

Did it not occur to you that this.....

"I have an Intel Core i3 3217-U and an Intel HD 4000 graphics card with 32 mb of VRAM and 4GB of RAM."

 

 

Wait, he can actually get the game to boot up with those specs?!

 

Thats impressive. 

[FREDDIEkillz 18]

Wait, he can actually get the game to boot up with those specs?!

Thats impressive.

Haha yeah, 18 fps in cities and around 24 anywhere else. Modified cfgs and low settings though. Edited July 13, 2014 by FREDDIEkillz

[GunnyITA 107]

 

Some answers why the movement is like it is now:

 

Question

 

Answer

 

But it also could be done like before and then do like In Arma 3 people who have weapon raised get fatigued quicker than people who don't.

Though that new one does sound like I could adapt to it. I've already half adapt to it.

 

 

 

The fact is that this is not a smooth game to improve such of change for movement speed!

It is no sense i'm forced to walk, even on crouching if i really don't need it. If i need to crawl slowly somewhere/ To Somehow it is an action that takes time and then an extra-click on the keyboard as there is the time to do it.

 

Unlike during a fight i have to push an extra-button while moving to strafe faster and not walking....Or force crawl slowly when on cover, instead of moving faster from A to B.

 

It's nosense! It's SENSELESS!

No game, i repeat: No existing game have this kind of moving system.....Probably I remember Thief 1,2,3 ...but it's another kind of game, but over 200 hundreds of games on my shelves, none of them have a similar moving system!

 

 

Then my last point is, if this is made for group fighting. Players that are forced to play solo because they don't have someone to group with they are cut off.

Edited July 13, 2014 by GunnyITA

[Exorade 214]

Then my last point is, if this is made for group fighting. Players that are forced to play solo because they don't have someone to group with they are cut off.

 

It isn't made for group anything. It's just a game and people choose how to play it.

Hopefully when the survival aspects kick in all those Arma styled 'squads' fuck off to play some other game. Perhaps, Arma.

[-MadTommy 367]

 

Well we have totally different bodies, you and I. There is a reason sprinters don't start standing up. There are a few sprint start positions, ignoring the fact that they are already prepared for one direction, there is a reson why the body center is low in all those positions, not at all like standing up: http://www.brianmac.co.uk/sprints/starts.htm And to rephrase that, having a low center of mass means that one is crouching. Really, who stands up and then starts running in a sprint situation? It's unnatural. Standing up and not having a low center might actually be worse than even proning (not with a backpack and weapon in hand, I give you that).

At no point have we had any version (that I know of) where stances were changed even remotely as fast as a person could do under duress. I don't know what that one button pressing sentence is supposed to mean. There is an animation there if you are standing. And if you are crouching and start sprinting, well, good for you, you'll have a headstart to those that were just standing up all the while.

I actually don't know how long it takes from proning to full sprint, I don't think I ever do that, but knowing dayz I guess it is not instant.

 

What I think is a problem here is the instant changing directions, no one seems to mind that. Today I shot a guy that was running at me, I had a mosin. Took 6 shots, almost got into melee. That is because the laws of physics are completely ignored when an object in motions decides to change direction. Currently it's like player run like ppl (or at least somewhat like ppl) but have no mass at all. Strange concept. It's just like Unreal Tournament 98, only worse because of the sprint function and the unrealistically high player speed. Funny thing is I don't actually know how other up to date FPS do that. I really, really hope that will change in the future. Looking at that any discussion about how many milliseconds it should take to go from crouched to standing seems unreal.

 

I don't disagree.  I was not very clear in my point and clearly it was missed.  No system is going to be perfect in this engine for creating fluid human motion.  You'll have to excuse my Sunday morning hangover & laziness in not trying to re-explain my original point.

Edited July 13, 2014 by MadTommy

[FrozenR1 0]

I didn't find any weapons nor new town (checked it on the ingame map) but i found sirens and music in Chernogorsk!

 

[quantum2k6 348]

I didn't find any weapons nor new town (checked it on the ingame map) but i found sirens and music in Chernogorsk!

 

 

u get trollet by another player...

 

no event, no content, pure trolling.

 

the sirene is from another game. i think it was Stalker

 

a bit of googleing and u find tons of videos from trollers...

Edited July 13, 2014 by quantum2k6

[FrozenR1 0]

but it cant be the normal sound channel cause if you check it out it was VOIP!

You cant just shut other playeres up by changing the VOIP controler!

 

If it was no ingame content it must have been a hacker!

[GunnyITA 107]

I don't disagree.  I was not very clear in my point and clearly it was missed.  No system is going to be perfect in this engine for creating fluid human motion.  You'll have to excuse my Sunday morning hangover & laziness in not trying to re-explain my original point.

 

 

exactly....they want to change engine but what they do? They are improving things trying to make game more fluid with the actual one. But it isn't! Chars are pieces of wood! They are trying to put a Ferrari into a Fiat 500

Edited July 13, 2014 by GunnyITA

[quantum2k6 348]

but it cant be the normal sound channel cause if you check it out it was VOIP!

You cant just shut other playeres up by changing the VOIP controler!

 

If it was no ingame content it must have been a hacker!

 

plz stop posting such a SHIT... goddamnit every second post is hack here bla.. hack there bla...

 

damn!

 

NOT EVERYTHING U DONT UNDERSTAND IS A HACK!

 

 

heres the damnit sound... i can play this the whole day on a dayZ server over VOIP...

 

im now a badass hacker?! i think NOT

Edited July 13, 2014 by quantum2k6