Arma3 Third person fix mod...thoughts?

[joe_mcentire 2074]

 

snip

^ very well done thanks and i can see now several issues with this concept.  :beans:  :beans:

Edited March 30, 2014 by joe_mcentire

[gibonez 3633]

I see what you are saying judo.

 

But at the same time it has to be worth a shot and tested to see if it works.

 

If it does then it could potentially improve the gameplay tenfold and eliminate alot of the cheeseball deaths.

 

They could incorporate it test it, refine it, until it seems fair and above all works fluidly.

[Judopunch 523]

I see what you are saying judo.

 

But at the same time it has to be worth a shot and tested to see if it works.

 

If it does then it could potentially improve the gameplay tenfold and eliminate alot of the cheeseball deaths.

 

They could incorporate it test it, refine it, until it seems fair and above all works fluidly.

I believe due to the nature of lag and multiplier gaming that this 'solution' would end up causing different and arguably more frustrating problems. 

 

I would encourage them to just work on limiting the camera a bit more as a better solution.

 

And I also think that the game looses much of its intensity when played in 3pp regardless of any adjustment or fix :/ 

 

I would also like to thank everyone for having such constructive discussion today. Though we may not all agree I appreciate the actual discussion happening. 

[gibonez 3633]

http://www.twitch.tv/sincorpdt/b/506158847

 

Perhaps another reason why this mod might be good.

[TheScruffyBandit 382]

http://www.twitch.tv/sincorpdt/b/506158847

 

Perhaps another reason why this mod might be good.

This is why things that can be abused like wall leaning and 3pp need to be fixed. The playerbase will ALWAYS abuse them, hell they're filming themselves being scumbags and they're not even ashamed of it, this is a pretty extreme example but every twitch I see of dayZ is FULL of 3pp abuse.

 

If the 3pp abusers and wall leaners quit over it, all the better frankly.

[Weedz 1105]

You don't see 1pp players asking for them to keep looking through walls in the game ... because they have the balls to admit when something is broken and don't want to keep abusing it.

 

There are plenty of examples of 3pp games that aren't horribly broken and actually have a sensible locked camera right over your shoulder so you can't hardcore abuse looking over 12 foot walls, these games also don't have guns that kill in a small fraction of a second because smart developers realize people would abuse corner camping if they could hide 100% protected then pop out and shoot 1 shot killing someone in less time than a human body can even react ... this isn't one of them.

 

There are games that have 3pp cameras like the one in this game. All of those games are single player stealth based games where you are supposed to have a huge advantage over the AI you're supposed to kill all of easily.

 

Anyone who can't admit to this is just lying to themselves about their wanting to keep abusing something they know is broken. It doesn't have to be this exact fix there are plenty of other ways to not have a completely broken "game feature".

 

 

 

the argument of "I only use it because others do .... but I don't actually want it fixed .... because I'm not using it because other's do I'm really using it because I need the corner camping crutch to succeed." doesn't make any sense at all and makes you look like a scrub. This game is (supposed to be) the opposite of a scrub friendly game ... and as TLC says "We don't want no scrubs, a scrub is a guy who get's no lovin' from me" Rocket made this game so that even people who've been PC gaming for over 20 years like himself would still get their asses kicked. AKA the exact opposite of 99% of the mainstream games that have come out in the past 10 years.

From other thread

 

 

People who are being intentionally ignorant so they can keep abusing something they themselves admit is broken have no place taking part in the DEVELOPMENT of a game.

Edited March 31, 2014 by Weedz

[Caboose187 (DayZ) 3036]

Taken from the previously locked duplicate thread of this issue: I'd love to play on a 3pp server but I don't need an easy mode crutch to lay on a roof top to see everyone when they can't see me.

[joe_mcentire 2074]

i just realized something:

 

Dean just mentioned over the weekend on Rezzed to that they'd want to implement some stealth elements to the game (at least showing intentions). But which purpose would it have to be only useable on Hardcore/1PP servers and against zeds/nature respectively then?

 

I personally figure that stealth would be vital in a surivial scenario like in DayZ however 3PP inhibits a "true" sneaky/stealthy approach to enemies in PVP situations. So how could there be reasonable stealth gameplay possible also PVP on 3PP servers? Or are stealth mechanics therefore not worth any effort later down the line? At least here would emerge quite a problem.

[taco86 156]

People who are being intentionally ignorant so they can keep abusing something they themselves admit is broken have no place taking part in the DEVELOPMENT of a game.

While I don't always agree with Weedz, when I do, he/she/it's usually right.

Edited March 31, 2014 by taco86

[Weedz 1105]

While I don't always agree with Weedz, when I do, he/she/it's usually right.

That's because this isn't something you can have 2 valid disagreeing opinions on. There are people who want something broken fixed and then there are people who want to keep "cheating".

Edited March 31, 2014 by Weedz

[joe_mcentire 2074]

and then there are people with an overall polemic attitude.

[Martmital 436]

That's because this isn't something you can have a disagreeing opinion on. There are people who want something broken fixed and then there are people who want to keep cheating.

 

What this really comes down to, is people crying because they lose their characters more often on 3PP servers and rather than accepting the Golden Rule of DayZ, they would rather spoil a vast majority of players experience.  Most don't  actually see it as broken, most don't believe it is cheating either.  There is over 1.7 million players, yet 1PP servers are dead.  That says a lot of things to me.

 

As I've said in many threads of this issue,  I'd be totally ok if they took away my 'Magical Eye'.  The only issue here for a lot of the predominantly 3PP players is the popping in and out of view and how you could get that to work so it looks and feels right.   

[gibonez 3633]

All this bickering would end if the mod were added.

 

Both sides would have zero reasons to complain if its added and they would move on to the next serious problem in the game.

[Martmital 436]

All this bickering would end if the mod were added.

 

Both sides would have zero reasons to complain if its added and they would move on to the next serious problem in the game.

 

How naive... people have been demanding zombies are shown some attention.  They sort out a quick fix to the problem and people just complained about the new stuff.  Same as would happen for this 'issue'.

[Weedz 1105]

As I've said in many threads of this issue,  I'd be totally ok if they took away my 'Magical Eye'.  The only issue here for a lot of the predominantly 3PP players is the popping in and out of view and how you could get that to work so it looks and feels right.   

 

 

There are plenty of examples of 3pp games that aren't horribly broken and actually have a sensible locked camera right over your shoulder so you can't hardcore abuse looking over 12 foot walls, these games also don't have guns that kill in a small fraction of a second because smart developers realize people would abuse corner camping if they could hide 100% protected then pop out and shoot 1 shot killing someone in less time than a human body can even react ... this isn't one of them.

 

^ People don't care about having something that works and looks good they care about not removing it in the first place.

 

"most people" in the mod think that Epoch, where there are multiple vendors who sell every item in the game all around the map, is a survival game still.

 

Now I'm gonna go play Epoch with my clan where we cruise around in a Humvee with a cannon on top while all using thermal sniper rifles and satchel charges blowing up people's bases. BBL

Edited March 31, 2014 by Weedz

[Martmital 436]

Tell you what, rather than just throw out generalisations, show me proof that there are 3PP enabled games that have this seamless feature.

 

Epoch is a mod of a mod.  Who cares?  The key thing here, is that the player base had a choice, the fact it is a popular mod of the mod means it caters for a certain player.

 

When and if the SA gets opened up to modders, let them and server owners implement stuff such as this.  Choice is often underrated.  If this 'fix' is as popular as you think it is then you have plenty of people to play with and can stop crying those lonely tears that only 'hardcore gamers' can produce. 

[dallas 5195]

Hi.

 

While I like this mod, I haven't played on any 3pp servers since they made the hardcore hive. Therefor I wouldn't want to force it on the periscope crowd.

 

I do find it amusing how some players have said they don't abuse the periscope, yet they still don't like this near-perfect solution of bringing the community together.

 

Regards.

 

Since you already play on hardcore servers and have embraced the perfect solution, then there's no need for a near-prefect solution.

[gibonez 3633]

 

When and if the SA gets opened up to modders, let them and server owners implement stuff such as this.  Choice is often underrated.  If this 'fix' is as popular as you think it is then you have plenty of people to play with and can stop crying those lonely tears that only 'hardcore gamers' can produce. 

 

This mod should not be implemented at the server level but in the game then given as a server option. Much like name tags were in the mod.

[TheScruffyBandit 382]

Since you already play on hardcore servers and have embraced the perfect solution, then there's no need for a near-prefect solution.

 

It's been explained before, but new players will always take the path of least resistance, if one game mode offers them the ability to see round corners and over walls without taking a risk and sticking their head out, the vast majority will take that free advantage. If there was a third hive that made all the player spawn with full gear, the majority of the player base would be on that, they're just going for the easiest option. Why take a risk popping your head out of a window to look for players when you can just 3pp abuse and never expose yourself to potential incoming fire?

 

Same goes for new servers, no server admin wants their expensively hosted server sitting almost empty, they're going to go for the game mode with the most players. It's only natural.

 

It's already obvious that, while 3pp has players on it, there are far fewer populated servers.. and often people who would prefer to play 1pp are forced to play 3pp simply because the need for player interaction in this game is greater than the desire to play on a hive less open to exploitation.

 

Ultimately, 1pp is the *best* solution, but so long as 3pp exists, it's going to be a niche market.

 

It's also worth considering that, there might be players who want to play 3pp but don't like the exploitation, this patch would give them the option to play 3pp without resorting to the same broken game mechanics that they would have to exploit currently, or find themselves at a disadvantage to everyone else.

 

Finally, from a fair play point of view:  why *should* such an obvious exploit be left unaddressed in 3pp just because 1pp exists? What possible reason would there be for the devs to continue letting 3pp players see players outside their characters field of view, are we to assume that characters on the 3pp hive have ex-ray vision? Even if everyone is taking advantage of it currently, that doesn't make it any less of a broken mechanic in need of fixing.

Edited April 1, 2014 by TheScruffyBandit

[gibonez 3633]

Ultimately, 1pp is the *best* solution, but so long as 3pp exists, it's going to be a niche market.

 

 

Sure its the best solution but yes this mod being incorporated into the game itself is the best compromise this community can make.

 

Nobody alienated, both sides happy, and this feature tested to see if it removes the wall peeking and potentially stops the glitch where you can look through walls.

[mgc 92]

Sure its the best solution but yes this mod being incorporated into the game itself is the best compromise this community can make.

 

Nobody alienated, both sides happy, and this feature tested to see if it removes the wall peeking and potentially stops the glitch where you can look through walls.

If that means 1pp is to remain a niche market which results in more compromises to realism / immersion in favor of the majority, only 1 side will be happy.

[Jex 1104]

ADD

THIS

MOD

NOW!

 

Seriously this would do away with so many issues and make the game fair as long as it was done right.

[gibonez 3633]

If that means 1pp is to remain a niche market which results in more compromises to realism / immersion in favor of the majority, only 1 side will be happy.

 

It is very apparent that hardcore and regular will not differ in only the point of view.

 

Hardcore and regular could potentially be different games.

 

This mod would allow that to happen. This way players from both sides would not mind playing both modes.

[dallas 5195]

It's been explained before, but new players will always take the path of least resistance, if one game mode offers them the ability to see round corners and over walls without taking a risk and sticking their head out, the vast majority will take that free advantage. If there was a third hive that made all the player spawn with full gear, the majority of the player base would be on that, they're just going for the easiest option. Why take a risk popping your head out of a window to look for players when you can just 3pp abuse and never expose yourself to potential incoming fire?

 

Same goes for new servers, no server admin wants their expensively hosted server sitting almost empty, they're going to go for the game mode with the most players. It's only natural.

 

It's already obvious that, while 3pp has players on it, there are far fewer populated servers.. and often people who would prefer to play 1pp are forced to play 3pp simply because the need for player interaction in this game is greater than the desire to play on a hive less open to exploitation.

 

Ultimately, 1pp is the *best* solution, but so long as 3pp exists, it's going to be a niche market.

 

It's also worth considering that, there might be players who want to play 3pp but don't like the exploitation, this patch would give them the option to play 3pp without resorting to the same broken game mechanics that they would have to exploit currently, or find themselves at a disadvantage to everyone else.

 

Finally, from a fair play point of view:  why *should* such an obvious exploit be left unaddressed in 3pp just because 1pp exists? What possible reason would there be for the devs to continue letting 3pp players see players outside their characters field of view, are we to assume that characters on the 3pp hive have ex-ray vision? Even if everyone is taking advantage of it currently, that doesn't make it any less of a broken mechanic in need of fixing.

If 1PP was so good, we wouldn't be having this discussion again and again. 

 

There's no "obvious exploit."

 

You're simply failing to acknowledge a very popular feature of ArmA/DayZ. This game has simply not been designed as a first person experience, it can be played in 1PP, but the experience isn't very smooth, because the game was designed to embrace several view point perspectives. 

 

While you're attempting to mislabel a legit feature as an exploit or shame us into submission by calling it a crutch, easy mode, ex-ray, periscope, mirror on a stick view, it simply doesn't change the fact that this feature is very legit and very popular and if you're such a total hardcore badass, it's up to you, yourself, to fill up your hardcore servers, which shouldn't be very hard, seeing the activity of these "3PP is bad mkay" threads and all your "1PP > 3PP" poles.

[mgc 92]

It is very apparent that hardcore and regular will not differ in only the point of view.

 

Hardcore and regular could potentially be different games.

 

This mod would allow that to happen. This way players from both sides would not mind playing both modes.

As long as they put their efforts in hardcore mode first or hire a second team to adapt it to casual. And then I guess we will see who the real DayZ players are.