Arma3 Third person fix mod...thoughts?

[gibonez 3633]

Lets force this to everyone then, one hive, no more 1pp only, no more HC and regulars.

 

Everyone will be happy?

 

Yes.

 

Without corner peeking there is no reason to have a hardcore mode.

 

This was the only reason hardcore servers came about, because people were annoyed at the corner peeking and how detrimental it was to gameplay.

[Valadain 270]

I think it should be a priority especially now when its in alpha this way it can be bug fixed and enhanced to the point where players do not pop in front of you and distract you.

 

Then again this mechanic of players and zombies poping in isn't a bad thing.

 

Take project Zomboid for example even though it is an isometric game, only things your players eyes can see are rendered.

 

This leads to some intense gameplay inside buildings and outdoors. You turn a corner and there it is a zombie pops up and grabs you.

 

My primary concern is not turning a corner and spotting a zombie suddenly. It is turning a corner, walking down a ways, then getting popped in the back by a zombie that was standing there but just rendered.

 

We'll see what the guaranteed messaging system brings, but synchronizing multiple clients and a server has been the bane of quick-paced multiplayer games since they started. If they don't get it to a very reliable system, where the server can determine relative positions and determine visibility extremely quickly and accurately. And also take into account transparent objects and objects with partial obstruction, this whole argument is moot as the solution will not work.

 

It cannot be client side, or you'll just be handing superpowers to hackers.

 

So, this is why I say, it need to be perfect, pretty well at the time of putting it in the code. Based on my many years in development, my "scope alarm" is ringing off the hook on this one. It is a pretty reliable alarm that has saved me a hell of a lot of frustration over the years. This simply means, that if it doesn't slide in easily, it will probably be a black-hole of development that requires patch after patch just to get to a state of reasonably playable, but will probably always be bugged.

[Weedz 1105]

Again ... if you have no faith in the dev team why are you here?

[Valadain 270]

Again ... if you have no faith in the dev team why are you here?

 

It has nothing to do with faith in the development team. I've yet to see a fast-paced real-time multiplayer game implement such logic. I've seen some turn-based games do this (XCom, that game with the little green soldiers, the isometric fallouts), but they don't have to deal with constantly updating relative positions as only one object is moving at a time and generally at a fairly slow pace.

 

Some things are a technical nightmare that the most experienced developers can't solve in a reasonable time-frame. That doesn't mean bad developers. A good developer will find a reasonable path, like perhaps spawning a second hive that disables the third person point of view.

[gibonez 3633]

It has nothing to do with faith in the development team. I've yet to see a fast-paced real-time multiplayer game implement such logic. I've seen some turn-based games do this (XCom, that game with the little green soldiers, the isometric fallouts), but they don't have to deal with constantly updating relative positions as only one object is moving at a time and generally at a fairly slow pace.

 

Some things are a technical nightmare that the most experienced developers can't solve in a reasonable time-frame. That doesn't mean bad developers. A good developer will find a reasonable path, like perhaps spawning a second hive that disables the third person point of view.

 

Project Zomboid while not a fps does a good job and it is a real time game.

 

Zombies and players render in mili seconds when you are looking at them.

 

One indication as to how feasible this could be is to check on the state of this mod within Arma 3.

 

If a single guy can bang out a good working solution then I would have great hope for the 40 + guys at Bohemia to do it also.

 

To be honest Bohemia has done far more impressive feats than this over the years I have faith they could crank this out not only perfectly but quickly also.

[cels 43]

If a single guy can bang out a good working solution then I would have great hope for the 40 + guys at Bohemia to do it also.

 

To be honest Bohemia has done far more impressive feats than this over the years I have faith they could crank this out not only perfectly but quickly also.

Its going to come down to what the devs feel is best for official hives.. I doubt the hives we have now wont be subject to change or improvement come beta and full release.

 

Modding has been confirmed so if the devs dont pick this up, im sure some servers will that wants both views but no view advantage.

Edited April 3, 2014 by cels

[Valadain 270]

Project Zomboid while not a fps does a good job and it is a real time game.

 

Zombies and players render in mili seconds when you are looking at them.

 

One indication as to how feasible this could be is to check on the state of this mod within Arma 3.

 

If a single guy can bang out a good working solution then I would have great hope for the 40 + guys at Bohemia to do it also.

 

To be honest Bohemia has done far more impressive feats than this over the years I have faith they could crank this out not only perfectly but quickly also.

 

That would be great if it is true, but somehow, I think it would be in the game already if it were.

[gibonez 3633]

That would be great if it is true, but somehow, I think it would be in the game already if it were.

 

It's just not a very common feature.

 

In other games where life has little to no value this is acceptable but in dayz getting even slightly cheated out of your life is extremely aggravating.

 

I don't think this feature has ever been put in on any other third person shooter game.

[Valadain 270]

It's just not a very common feature.

 

In other games where life has little to no value this is acceptable but in dayz getting even slightly cheated out of your life is extremely aggravating.

 

I don't think this feature has ever been put in on any other third person shooter game.

 

True, but it isn't quite as game-breaking as everyone tries to make it seem. In the real world, there are plenty of things I could do that I can't do in the game, that would make it harder for you to spot me if I was trying to ambush you. Granted, not with a nice sweeping view of stuff around me, but I could cover myself, crouch down low so I'm barely visible. I could poke a hole in a wall to look out while being obscured.

 

Still, I guess we'll see what is going to happen. I didn't see this on the road map, so I'm guessing it is either not considered a major feature for mention or not a priority.

[gibonez 3633]

Still, I guess we'll see what is going to happen. I didn't see this on the road map, so I'm guessing it is either not considered a major feature for mention or not a priority.

 

Yea I did not see it on the road map either. However I suspect they were not even aware of it.

 

Hopefully by now this has come to their attention as a nice solution to get hardcore players to also partake in some normal servers.

 

This is especially important because they plan to make hardcore a much different game mode in the future with scarcer loot, stronger zombies and other "hardcore" features.

 

Adding this simple fix would allow them to go nuts on hardcore and not worry about people complaining that it isnt just normal mode without TPV.

[Judopunch 523]

Read again, the overwhelming majority want the mod ...

There is no possible way that you could know this. Are you in politics or something?

[gibonez 3633]

There is no possible way that you could know this. Are you in politics or something?

 

Just judging by a quick glance at the responses in this thread.

 

Majority are in favor of such a solution or at the very least intrigued by it.

[Valadain 270]

Yea I did not see it on the road map either. However I suspect they were not even aware of it.

 

Hopefully by now this has come to their attention as a nice solution to get hardcore players to also partake in some normal servers.

 

This is especially important because they plan to make hardcore a much different game mode in the future with scarcer loot, stronger zombies and other "hardcore" features.

 

Adding this simple fix would allow them to go nuts on hardcore and not worry about people complaining that it isnt just normal mode without TPV.

 

Yeah, though aside from you, who can discuss this calmly and rationally, I'm not sure that is a great selling point. Bringing hardcore players to regular...

[gibonez 3633]

Yeah, though aside from you, who can discuss this calmly and rationally, I'm not sure that is a great selling point. Bringing hardcore players to regular...

 

Think of it this way.

 

It will allow them the potential to have Hardcore players also enjoy regular now that their main gripe with it is gone.

 

 

At the same time because of this they can totally go nuts with hardcore mode and make it as "hardcore" as they want without the worry of whining.

They could turn it into a really good survival mode that is super unforgiving.

 

As for your initial comment yea lol most of the time these threads result in constant back to back insults.

[Judopunch 523]

Majority are in favor of such a solution or at the very least intrigued by it.

Than possibly "The majority of players in this thread are in favor of such a solution or at the very least intrigued by it." Would have been a better statement. But even then I think there is not a 'vast' majority. And being 'a little intrigued', does also support favor. Only interest.

 

The forums represent a very very small portion of the total population. There could be a schism between what people who are active on the forums, and 'the vast majority of players' want. But it is unfair and in bad taste to make such sweeping claims.

Edited April 4, 2014 by Judopunch

[gibonez 3633]

Than possibly "The majority of players in this thread are in favor of such a solution or at the very least intrigued by it." Would have been a better statement. But even then I think there is not a 'vast' majority. And being 'a little intrigued', does also support favor. Only interest.

 

The forums represent a very very small portion of the total population. There could be a schism between what people who are active on the forums, and 'the vast majority of players' want. But it is unfair and in bad taste to make such sweeping claims.

 

True but to be honest with you, I doubt those people outside of the forums would even notice the change.

[Publik 404]

Yeah, though aside from you, who can discuss this calmly and rationally, I'm not sure that is a great selling point. Bringing hardcore players to regular...

Sometimes you've got friends that don't want to play 1PP or need a few hours to vent on the coastal critters without risking your main dood.

[Judopunch 523]

True but to be honest with you, I doubt those people outside of the forums would even notice the change.

That may or may not be true. However it is harmful for discourse, and even the logical framework of your argument in your own head, when you accept such sweeping generality!

<3

[Valadain 270]

Sometimes you've got friends that don't want to play 1PP or need a few hours to vent on the coastal critters without risking your main dood.

 

I think you missed the point, that many of the posts here by the 1PP only crowd here don't motivate me to want to play on the same server as them. I've actually been wanting to transition to hardcore as I like 1PP better, but the constant stream of vitriol and demeaning posts has made me not want to go anywhere near a hardcore server.

[Judopunch 523]

I think you missed the point, that many of the posts here by the 1PP only crowd here don't motivate me to want to play on the same server as them. I've actually been wanting to transition to hardcore as I like 1PP better, but the constant stream of vitriol and demeaning posts has made me not want to go anywhere near a hardcore server.

Confirmation bias. It goes both ways.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias

[P0rkchop 31]

Since I started watching streams and vids everyone just uses 3rd person to "cheat"

 

No thanks at all, I'll just play Hardcore

[Valadain 270]

Confirmation bias. It goes both ways.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias

 

That only works if I weren't on the side of those making comments until they made the comments. You need to find the threads and read through. It is pretty awful.

[Valadain 270]

Since I started watching streams and vids everyone just uses 3rd person to "cheat"

 

No thanks at all, I'll just play Hardcore

 

That would be because..... it isn't cheating. It is how the mechanic works and is intended to work. You don't like it. I don't like it. But it isn't cheating. I'm really getting tired of this being the phrase of choice for anyone that doesn't like how another person plays. KoS is cheating. TeamSpeak is cheating. Persistent storage is cheating. Going back to your corpse is cheating. Using third person perspective is cheating. Logging out in a building is cheating. It gets old.

[P0rkchop 31]

That would be because..... it isn't cheating. It is how the mechanic works and is intended to work. You don't like it. I don't like it. But it isn't cheating. I'm really getting tired of this being the phrase of choice for anyone that doesn't like how another person plays. KoS is cheating. TeamSpeak is cheating. Persistent storage is cheating. Going back to your corpse is cheating. Using third person perspective is cheating. Logging out in a building is cheating. It gets old.

It's not cheating to glitch the camera to see through walls and areas you couldn't otherwise see? Hmm sounds like an exploit to me

[Judopunch 523]

That only works if I weren't on the side of those making comments until they made the comments. You need to find the threads and read through. It is pretty awful.

err. huh? No.

 

If you were to comprehend, comprehension bias you would understand that there is just as much vitriol coming from both camps. It has nothing to do with what side you are on at any time. Only how you comprehend the argument.

 

Why dont you go play on some hardcore servers anyways and get some experience for yourself? What is this 'working up to it', same game just only first person. Whats going to happen, your going to get shot and die?