POLL: Dayz SA 1st person only

[Cap'n (DayZ) 1827]

I'm angered by this. There is no fucking reason that you need to remove third person. What, so you can feel comfortable knowing other people are being kept from their preference because you just decided to be a whiny bitch? Play a fucking 1st person only server, kid. I'm mad, Ii'm really fucking mad. I'm so mad I could slam my head against the wall in rage. That kind of mad.

[sobieski12 835]

I'm angered by this. There is no fucking reason that you need to remove third person. What, so you can feel comfortable knowing other people are being kept from their preference because you just decided to be a whiny bitch? Play a fucking 1st person only server, kid. I'm mad, Ii'm really fucking mad. I'm so mad I could slam my head against the wall in rage. That kind of mad.

 

Don't worry you can still look over the concrete wall at the NWAF.

[Jamz 253]

Exactly, the poll was very carefully worded to be FPV Only vs TPV Only. Because FPV and TPV trends to TPV only (except for that bit where you shoot people but surely you wouldn't mind doing that in third person?)

 

Are you asking me that? If its not a rhetorical question then no I don't mind shooting people in first or third person, as I do now. I'm not against FPV, as I've already stated I switch between views but I'm against the complete removal of TPV unnecessarily. Regarding FPV/ TPV trending towards TPV only (which I agree with) I assume you mean for servers, in which case I think that's a different issue. It seems players are forced onto populated servers regardless of whether they want FPV or TPV.

 

 

 

 

It's not about opinions, TPV cannot be fixed in a way that both removes the exploits and also makes TPV usable. If you think things through you'll notice this, but you stop at key points to pretend that if you really did it it would all work out.

 

See my post above this one.

 

 

Edited August 30, 2013 by Jamz

[dsi24 227]

Since these threads spawn like mushrooms lately on the forums, I'll try to point out some things some people seem to ignore. In order to understand this post please leave out of this the FPV vs TPV mentality. Understand that FPV and TPV trends to TPV only, so it is FPV vs TPV.

 

First of all, to those who complain about TPV not being realistic. Well, in real life one person can cover almost 180 degrees with his two eyes without turning his head. And then peripheral vision comes to play, where it's easier to spot movements with the corner of your eye than by staring directly at the moving object. FPV does not allow this. The space it covers is almost half of what we get in real life, no peripheral vision also. Bottomline, neither view is realistic. Third person does not allow this either, it does not change your FoV to be 180, if it did the game would look like shit. Neither view is realistic, but TPV is even LESS realistic and not authentic at all. 

 

The reason FPV works in most first person shooters is that when playing such a game you usually have to worry only for one thing. Enemy players. You don't have to take into account both PVP and PVE. Situational/spatial awareness is a fundamental aspect of a PVE game. And first person view doesn't cut it, simple as that. Yes, even with freelook. Because that takes time and a key press to use, and while using it you can't make your character turn. Explain other first person PvE games like Minecraft then? Freelook makes ArmA one of the easiest games to have spatial awareness in, it's hilarious that you're even trying to argue this point.

 

Not to mention that especially in the mod with the clunky moves, the multiple bugs, the buggy zeds and all the other far from perfect things, third person view is required at one point or another. Never mind about PVP. Just for these reasons. The rest of the mod is buggy so we need to keep this exploitable piece of shit too? I'm sorry but that's bullshit and you know it.

 

To all those complaining about others exploiting TPV. Well not much to say, obviously this needs to be fixed, and I'm sure in time it will be fixed. Cool, notice that this is your shortest line, you aren't going to try and think any way to fix it because you know it's impossible.

 

To those claiming TPV is noobish and "easy mode". Well, just answer me this. Do you play on servers with crosshairs? If so, please do not post in one of these threads again. We are playing a survival simulator, based on a milsim, with extremely detailed weapons/scopes/sights and you are still using crosshairs to hipfire your DMR at close range combat. IMO the first thing that needs to get ditched from this game, both mod and SA are the crosshairs. It's much more realistic shooting through the sights in TPV than using crosshairs in FPV. Crosshairs give you the ability to see where your gun barrel is pointed, something that is possible with the 3D vision our eyes give us, but not the 2D vision the screen does. The pipper in the middle that gives precise shot location does not belong, but the outside 'general area' bits do.

 

As far as SA goes, I find it a bit silly starting polls and debates whether something needs to be removed from it before you even get your hands on it (unless it's something as obvious as crosshairs). Maybe it works differently in the SA, maybe it's fixed/limited in some way. They're still thinking about it as far as I know. Making a gazillion threads of "FPV vs TPV" on the forums is not going to help. They only thing you are accomplishing is to make the forums a more messed up place than it's already is. Try to think about the people using the search function. Point is, have some patience, play the SA, experience the new game, new engine, new animations, new zeds, new everything and then - and only then- start complaining about something. Or something as obvious as third person?  So wait, you mean SA is going to fix all the things that you say are a reason to keep third person? Good to know you support removing third person too, thanks.

 

TLDR - Keep the forums clean and organized, have patience, stop bashing on TPV and players using it, and get out of this FPV vs TPV mentality. For a change try the "what is feasible under the engine we've got, realistic, fun" mentality. TL;DR stop trying to tow the line of compromise, it cannot work out. FPV and TPV trend to TPV only, so something has to give.

Edited August 30, 2013 by Dsi1

[akafugitive 244]

I agree that if a server enables tpv then fpv becomes a disadvantage to play dedicated to. I prefer fpv (i have moddified my fov to 100) for the same reasons in the video however if someone else prefers tpv I think the best solution is having dedicated servers to just tpv and just fpv

Oh and for the record the crosshair is an annoyance, id be glad to see it gone

Edited August 30, 2013 by akafugitive

[h3l1x 327]

LOL, thanks for proving my point about the mentality I mentioned.

 

Understand that FPV and TPV trends to TPV only, so it is FPV vs TPV.

Wrong. Many users use both views. Scouting is easier on TPV, shooting in FPV. Just an example.

Third person does not allow this either, it does not change your FoV to be 180, if it did the game would look like shit. Neither view is realistic, but TPV is even LESS realistic and not authentic at all.

Wrong again. It does allow it, since the FOV is bigger than FPV. Let's not play with words here, I got better things to do. It's closer to real life FOV than FPV. I never said it matches exactly real vision. Authentic and realistic, oh cool you can quote Rocket, get a biscuit. Again, playing with words.

Explain other first person PvE games like Minecraft then? Freelook makes ArmA one of the easiest games to have spatial awareness in, it's hilarious that you're even trying to argue this point.

Really? Comparing minecraft's enviroment to dayz's? Really? I didn't know you were chased by 30 zeds in minecraft while trying to avoid bandits and getting stuck on a fence, a rock, or any other obstacle.

The rest of the mod is buggy so we need to keep this exploitable piece of shit too? I'm sorry but that's bullshit and you know it.

"Piece of shit", "bullshit"", you sound angry. Next time you attempt to respond to someone and open a dialog try to talk nicely, common sense. To answer your question yes, the mod is too buggy for FPV only. Like it or not, that's how it is, it would be unplayable. Also you are talking about removing a feature of this game and turning it into a casual shooter like cod, bf and all the others out there. Just think about it when you calm down.

Cool, notice that this is your shortest line, you aren't going to try and think any way to fix it because you know it's impossible.

If you read the forums, you'd be aware there were many ideas and suggestions about fixing it. Narrowing the FOV when prone or crouched or behind walls, objects, etc. And as far as I recall the SA team is thinking of implementing such a solution.

Crosshairs give you the ability to see where your gun barrel is pointed, something that is possible with the 3D vision our eyes give us, but not the 2D vision the screen does. The pipper in the middle that gives precise shot location does not belong, but the outside 'general area' bits do.

You know that rifles and precision shooting with handguns is done with one eye closed right? No 3d vision there. The only reason one uses both eyes when shooting handguns is depth perception. Which is not present in the game since it's on a 2d screen. Therefore there is no need whatsoever in emulating 3d barrel view as you say. As you would take a risk hipfiring irl, then accept taking that risk in dayz too. I thought you were pro realism, oh sorry, authenticity.

Or something as obvious as third person? So wait, you mean SA is going to fix all the things that you say are a reason to keep third person? Good to know you support removing third person too, thanks.

Putting words in my mouth, huh? Cool tactic, kinda old though. As I said above, SA will probably have limited/fixed TPV so it can't be exlpoited to watch over obstacles or around corners. You're welcome.

TL;DR stop trying to tow the line of compromise, it cannot work out. FPV and TPV trend to TPV only, so something has to give.

Compromise? If you can't grasp it, I can't explain it more thoroughly. You're the best example of the FPV vs TPV mentality I mentioned in my first post. Acting as if TPV is the devil and everything else is fine and dandy. You have the right to believe everything you want, but I'm not going to just sit back and watch some hotheads starting a bandwagon effect crusade for removing a feature which yes, needs fixing, but not removing. This game is supposed to be free and open. It doesn't take a huge brain to think that by removing everything which has problems will lead nowhere. Hell, zeds are buggy and glitchy, let's remove 'em.

Two can play this game.

Edited August 30, 2013 by h3l1x

[SoulHunter (DayZ) 233]

About 800 people voted. The results;

 

88%- Yes

12%- No

[SoulHunter (DayZ) 233]

About 900 people voted. The results;

 

88%- Yes

12%- No

[OrLoK 16182]

I'm angered by this. There is no fucking reason that you need to remove third person. What, so you can feel comfortable knowing other people are being kept from their preference because you just decided to be a whiny bitch? Play a fucking 1st person only server, kid. I'm mad, Ii'm really fucking mad. I'm so mad I could slam my head against the wall in rage. That kind of mad.

Calm it down, please.

 

L

[(TMW) Marion Mic 104]

Even if there would be Poll about:

Wold Ya play oa bay SA if hakers wa on?

Yes SIR

Fak noo

The results, I believe would still be more Yes than No. Maybe slightly, but it would be Yes.

[SoulHunter (DayZ) 233]

About 1200 people voted. The results;

 

88%- Yes

12%- No

[Mos1ey 6301]

How have I played this game for a year without knowing that... SonufaBeach...  I think I always just assumed that it wasn't something you could disable...

 

Cheers

 

Really late reply, lol, but rather than disabling it completely I like to leave a tiny sliver on the bar. I find having the tiniest bit of head bob stops me feeling like I'm controlling a flying camera. :)

 

It's awful on the default setting though... Definitely turn it down quite a lot.

[dsi24 227]

LOL, thanks for proving my point about the mentality I mentioned.

 

Two can play this game.

1) Scouting is perfect in third person, camping is perfect in third person. Shooting (read: aiming at a target) is only possible in first person. Do you see the disconnect there? TPV trumps FPV in every single case except when the game makes it physically impossible to use third person.

 

2) I'm not quoting anyone, I'm using logic and reasoning. It's well known that FoV in third person does not change from first person. Of course some people will try and trump it out every now and then and have to be put back in their place.

 

3) Minecraft and DayZ: Both survival games. I hear DayZ SA is even going to have a construction component? One of the points you third person players like to trump out is "well DayZ isn't an FPS hurr because its not just shooting other people durr" Guess what, Minecraft is a game that can be both PvE and PvP just like DayZ, and guess what, Minecraft is played from the first person perspective. The only difference is you actually consistently shoot people in first person in DayZ (you can in Minecraft too, but it's mostly swords) How is DayZ not an FPS again?

 

4) ArmA and DayZ have been played FPV only since *both* of their beginnings, are you seriously trying to re-write history? It's shit like this that makes it obvious you people have no idea what you're talking about.

 

5) Shooting with an eye closed is blinding yourself to your surroundings and your target's surroundings, only a CoD kiddie would think this is true. 

 

6) Nope, no words put in your mouth, only following your train of logic. You say third person needs to exist because of all the problems (bullshit in and of itself, and you know that, otherwise you would never have posted the line I'm talking about), then say DayZ SA will have everything new... so why does it need third person? That's all your logic, all from your post, you just forgot to connect the dots, so don't blame me when you can't keep your logic consistent.

 

7) TPV is too exploitable to keep, the best thing you can do is technically not remove it. No one will use it if it is fixed properly because it will be either a shitty camera (the change camera mechanics crowd) or make the entire game, when played in TPV, feel janky (the change game mechanics crowd) so why not just cut to the chase and remove it?

[Cap'n (DayZ) 1827]

Meh, Rocket plans to leave it as it is. Why do I support Rocket? because he is smarter than me. And most of you. I hope he makes it the game he wants it to be, because I'm pretty cool with what Rocket wants. After my rant and following nom-down by my good acquaintance Orlok, I'm laying off the pissing contest. Sadly, I think I just fueled this thread a little more.

[Cap'n (DayZ) 1827]

But those few people that would vote for both would buy it regardless, they belong to the "I don't care deeply about this game" group. There are only two preferences, First Person Only, or Third Person. Most people play Third Person because its easier, the people who care about the game and want to see an awesome hard-survival MP game want First Person Only.

You just generalized the majority of the DayZ community. Stereotyping people isn't cool, man.

[terrvik 2409]

http://www.easypolls.net/poll.html?p=5220c5f8e4b09938befb2ec1

Almost 2200 votes now.

 

58% Yes :)

30% Yes :(

12% No  >:(

 

EDIT: 2200 now.

Edited August 31, 2013 by Terrorviktor

[akafugitive 244]

Careful what you wish for dsi1 remember if all the people who prefer 3rd person because they use it to stalk and kill unarmed/ friendly players don't have a 3rd person server to join they will have to be in 1st person servers. All that standalone needs is to make sure there is enough 1st person servers accessible, its up to the community to populate them

1st person servers currently have much less false flag friendlies just for sport then 3rd servers

Oh and side note: I am a qualified marksman, you don't train to close an eye when shooting, you train to use both. Also FOV can be modified in the config file and standalone has an fov slider in the options. Why is this even a bigger conversation over hiding bodies and legolas eyes?

Edited August 31, 2013 by akafugitive

[SMLE 39]

Both poles are skewed because they have been placed in areas heavily frequented by 1st person view/game players , the only way to get a fair comparison is to poll the player base as a whole .

The only surprise I see with this poll is that the the No answer is as big as it is for this site .

cheers

[h3l1x 327]

oh well, here we go again.

 

1) Scouting is perfect in third person, camping is perfect in third person. Shooting (read: aiming at a target) is only possible in first person. Do you see the disconnect there? TPV trumps FPV in every single case except when the game makes it physically impossible to use third person.

"TPV trumps FPV". Do you even know it's not a contest? I won't keep repeating myself, many players (including me) are using both views on different occasions.

 

2) I'm not quoting anyone, I'm using logic and reasoning. It's well known that FoV in third person does not change from first person. Of course some people will try and trump it out every now and then and have to be put back in their place.

Not quoting anyone? Remember that when we get to next paragraph, at the "hurr durr" part. So FPV and TPV have the same exactly FOV huh? But we bad people have to trump (again trumping? wtf) it out and need to be put back in our place. Well sorry, but you leave me no other choice.

For starters, this is Arma 3, not Arma 2. New and better engine and probably many changes under the hood. If you are going to talk about Arma 2/Dayz, at least link an Arma 2/Dayz video.

Before you start shooting objections let me say a couple of things. These caps are from the video you linked. I didn't crop anything, I left the timestamps on purpose in case someone thinks I tampered with the pics. Go ahead and check it out yourself. Also since you appear to be really stubborn about it, I also marked with an opaque red layer the parts of the TPV FOV that get cropped in FPV. Now compare these pics and tell me which of the two FOVs comes closer to real life FOV and peripheral vision.

*Also you lose two triangular shaped parts at the bottom of you screen expanding from the center to the edges, but I was too tired to also draw triangles, I hope you get the point by now.

 

3) Minecraft and DayZ: Both survival games. I hear DayZ SA is even going to have a construction component? One of the points you third person players like to trump out is "well DayZ isn't an FPS hurr because its not just shooting other people durr" Guess what, Minecraft is a game that can be both PvE and PvP just like DayZ, and guess what, Minecraft is played from the first person perspective. The only difference is you actually consistently shoot people in first person in DayZ (you can in Minecraft too, but it's mostly swords) How is DayZ not an FPS again?

Oh look, the "hurr durr" part. Not quoting anyone, lol. Survival games? No you didn't. Minecraft is purely a constructing digital-lego game. This is it's core, it's nature. Now if they added dinosaurs, ghosts or pirates just to enhance it, that doesn't make it a similar game to dayz. Also, Dayz is supposed to be a survival simulator, not a FPS. Get your facts straight. It's a new kind of game, don't try to define it comparing it to cod, minecraft and whatelse.

 

4) ArmA and DayZ have been played FPV only since *both* of their beginnings, are you seriously trying to re-write history? It's shit like this that makes it obvious you people have no idea what you're talking about.

Ah this gets interesting. A video dated 10 april 2012 with no TPV. Also lacking almost anything it has now, just a reskinned arma II with zeds. In other words a test build of a one man's project. Also in case you don't know it, third person view and crosshairs are server options (and always were). Meaning that at this time there were only a couple of servers (UO probably) and it just happened they didn't have TPV and crosshairs. I can find you a video dated 25 april with TPV. Are we really debating on 15 days?

 

5) Shooting with an eye closed is blinding yourself to your surroundings and your target's surroundings, only a CoD kiddie would think this is true.

I mentioned rifles and precision shooting. You seam to discard everything I say that doesn't suit your opinions. And yes, precision shooting works much better with one eye closed because you don't have the distraction of the depth. As to who is the CoD kiddie let those reading this thread to decide. For sure I'm not the one insisting Dayz is a FPS neither I start a crusade to start striping off parts of it in order to turn it into one.

 

6) Nope, no words put in your mouth, only following your train of logic. You say third person needs to exist because of all the problems (bullshit in and of itself, and you know that, otherwise you would never have posted the line I'm talking about), then say DayZ SA will have everything new... so why does it need third person? That's all your logic, all from your post, you just forgot to connect the dots, so don't blame me when you can't keep your logic consistent.

Reverse psychology time. I said two things actually. First that TPV simply cannot be discarded because of all the problems the mod has, and then I also said that it is also a feature many people prefer to use, or use alongside with FPV. I said both these things, you can check again. I made two points, one doesn't discard the other. The first was an answer to your kind of logic. The other to people not so fanatic about the whole subject. Get it now?

 

7) TPV is too exploitable to keep, the best thing you can do is technically not remove it. No one will use it if it is fixed properly because it will be either a shitty camera (the change camera mechanics crowd) or make the entire game, when played in TPV, feel janky (the change game mechanics crowd) so why not just cut to the chase and remove it?

You know what? By raging so much over this particular thing you seem like a person who only cares about PVP and takes Dayz for another FPS. Dayz is not all about PVP, and it's not your conventional FPS. And no, you don't know if the fix (or fixes) will be shitty, because you are not a dev, and you haven't experienced them. So stop trying to predict the future, suck it up and wait at least to try out the SA before you start again demanding the removal of other parts.

What I really don't get though is why you have to have TPV removed and you wouldn't be happy if there were servers (as there are for the mod) for both FOVs. You would play on your server, they would play on their server. And don't dare using the "everyone plays on TPV servers, so all FPV ones are empty" excuse, cause according to the posts Soulhunter spams every single hour there is a whole army of hardcore FPV lovers, in fact it's the vast majority of Dayz's users. So many people, yet no servers at all? How can that be? Or is it just an "I have to impose what I like on all other people" attitude? Or just the bandwagon effect? Feeling as if you have a higher purpose and stuff.

Edited August 31, 2013 by h3l1x

[tommes 331]

I see a lot of guys losing bodily fluids of different kind because of fear their beloved 3rd person view might be removed. :)

I'm sorry. Not for your tears, but because you 3rd person lovers can't see how the bad effects of using TPV is actually screwing this game up fundamentally. And for what? Your personal comfort.

Seems like you guys are less of a team player than the FPV crowd, which is willing to give up personal comfort for a better gaming experience for all.

[Wayze 549]

There needs to be more vote options:

I would play it if there was only 1st person but I wouldn't like it.

Vice versa

Now what sense would that make? We had that poll once, this is about who would still play the standalone.

I don't think this poll is legit, everyone would play DayZ no matter what perspective. I hate third person, but I will play it even if it is third person only. And I just don't believe that 25% would not play the standalone anymore. It is just the "haters" who don't want third person to disappear, I am 100% sure that 99% of these 25% would play the standalone anyway.

[aeinola 25]

This poll is so stupid. It could say: "Would you play dayz if they remove one thing you like from the game?". Most of us would play it anyway. Why make the game worse? If i was game developer i would NEVER remove 3rd person view if i knew there is players who want it. Why would i? The real question actually is: "Would you play dayz if you can choose between 1st and 3rd person view?". This is the question that matters, not something that forces people to play in some way. And this stupid poll is irrelevant because there will be 1st person only servers, everyone wins.

[Wayze 549]

This poll is so stupid. It could say: "Would you play dayz if they remove one thing you like from the game?". Most of us would play it anyway. Why make the game worse? If i was game developer i would NEVER remove 3rd person view if i knew there is players who want it. Why would i? The real question actually is: "Would you play dayz if you can choose between 1st and 3rd person view?". This is the question that matters, not something that forces people to play in some way. And this stupid poll is irrelevant because there will be 1st person only servers, everyone wins.

Why would you? Because almost 60% of the gamers want it. Why do we have to explain it to every single person? There are no first person servers, look at it 2000 people want first person but maybe like 40 are playing it.

Edited August 31, 2013 by Wayze

[aeinola 25]

Now what sense would that make? We had that poll once, this is about who would still play the standalone.

I don't think this poll is legit, everyone would play DayZ no matter what perspective. I hate third person, but I will play it even if it is third person only. And I just don't believe that 25% would not play the standalone anymore. It is just the "haters" who don't want third person to disappear, I am 100% sure that 99% of these 25% would play the standalone anyway.

I could say it is just the "haters" who don't like 3rd person view posted this poll and so on... Why all the 3rd person haters think they are right? This is just a game. I strongly prefer 3rd person and i know that you can exploit it and make gameplay unfair, there is loads of things in DayZ mod that you can exploid and make the game unfair, not just 3rd person view. I would prefer 1st person view if it was made correctly. Its way too restricted at the moment. I could write lots of things that needs to be fixed in 1st person to make it actually realistic. I only tell you guys one thing and from that you can use your imagination: when you are prone and you hove some small object in front of you, let say one feet tall object (grass, rock or something), the only way to peak over it is to rise up to your knee, this is the one of the major things that i can not tolerate. Solution for this is the free look. When you press ALT (free look) you should be able to move your head/upper body up and down as well. Think about it...

[aeinola 25]

Why would you? Because almost 60% of the gamers want it. Why do we have to explain it to every single person? There are no first person servers, look at it 2000 people want first person but maybe like 40 are playing it.

OMFG! Do something about it! You got the community here! Rent your own servers and make it 1st person only and stop crying here. How incapable people can be. Jesus...