What if we removed the crosshair?

[BwobBwub 660]

I play on crosshair disabled servers, it wouldn't effect the veteran Arma 2 or DayZ players.

[boxman80 964]

I play on crosshair disabled servers, it wouldn't effect the veteran Arma 2 or DayZ players.

I personally agree with removing the cross hair but this isn't really a valid argument for it as there will be hopefully plenty of new folk playing the game, or is that not what we want?

Edited January 22, 2013 by Box

[Rastamaus 323]

I personally agree with removing the cross hair but this isn't really a valid argument for it as there will be hopefully plenty of new folk playing the game, or is that not what we want?

I wish the crosshair had never been there, i had to ween myself off it. As most people know the only thing harder than learning new things is unlearning old things.

If the SA starts without it, if it never makes an appearance then no one will be have to unlearn relying on it.

Edited January 22, 2013 by Rastamaus

[terrvik 2409]

What about two "iron sights"? One right click to just hold the gun straight out in front of you, giving a decent idea where the aim is, and a double right click for the standard iron sight aiming. Awkward maybe. Experiments are fun. For science and so on.

And crosshairs for grenade throwing and such is pointless. Try to throw a rock in real life, it's really hard to hit a target. :P

EDIT: Would also double as some kind of combat mode. Huhm.

Edited January 22, 2013 by Terrorviktor

[nobody 31]

Sounds good to me..

[Joe Freedom 34]

What about two "iron sights"? One right click to just hold the gun straight out in front of you, giving a decent idea where the aim is, and a double right click for the standard iron sight aiming. Awkward maybe. Experiments are fun. For science and so on.

And crosshairs for grenade throwing and such is pointless. Try to throw a rock in real life, it's really hard to hit a target. :P

EDIT: Would also double as some kind of combat mode. Huhm.

I 'plus one' this idea. Even though, I'd change the control. Clicking right mouse should bring up the 'shoot from hip'-iron sight. Holding right mouse button should bring up the real iron sight. But anyway.. Minor detail.

Edit:

I meant the other way around..

Sry. So holding, hip shooting.

Clicking, real aiming.

Reason, you usually have more time in real aiming situations.

Edited January 22, 2013 by Joe Freedom

[Zachstar 59]

Like others have said. At the very least it is worth a try for the early versions. The removal of another tool for hackers at the start is just worth it.

You can always add it back to SA later if needed. Maybe with extra time to add security measures.

[Bribase 251]

I'm 180° different from the presiding opinion on this topic and it's kind of a bone of contention for me. The bottom line is:

No Crosshair ≠ More realistic

Some weapons are specialised for long range, some for mid and some for short range, sure. But in real life there is absolutely nothing that stops a person from pointing the angry end of a sniper rifle at a zombie's head and pulling the trigger at close range without having to look down the sights. In DayZ (or any other FPS for that matter) there is no stand in for proprioception (a sense of where your body and limbs are located in space) so it is perfectly normal to augment the HUD with something that gives a sense of where your gun is pointing. It could even be argued that a crosshair adds realism, the alternative being that you are carrying a weapon that if you shoot from the hip you have no idea where it will fire.

I propose that DayZ includes a dynamic crosshair like in the first Deus Ex game. Having a crosshair that varies the grouping of your shots based on movement, stamina and weapon choice. A well implemented one means that ironsights will always be the prevailing way to aim (instantaneous accuracy over delayed) but shots from the hip will have a likely sense of where you are shooting based on how long you take to line up the shot, just like in real life.

This is particularly frustrating because I like to apply some aiming deadzone when I play but I frequent a no-crosshair server so using a hatchet is particularly hit or miss.

Edited January 22, 2013 by Bribase

[wolfstriked 143]

I propose that DayZ includes a dynamic crosshair like in the first Deus Ex game. Having a crosshair that varies the grouping of your shots based on movement, stamina and weapon choice. A well implemented one means that ironsights will always be the prevailing way to aim (instantaneous accuracy over delayed) but shots from the hip will have a likely sense of where you are shooting based on how long you take to line up the shot, just like in real life.

This is particularly frustrating because I like to apply some aiming deadzone when I play but I frequent a no-crosshair server so using a hatchet is particularly hit or miss.

Crosshair that gets bigger and smaller dependent on the amount of dispersion is ugly though and breaks immersion.A small dot though will disappear unless the player looks for it.And A2 already changes the sway dependent on stamina/movement etc so no need to add any more.Small amount of aiming deadzone though and you make the hipshooting slightly harder even when people mark their LCD's

[tiresomehoopla 37]

Keep crosshair and get rid of 3rd person, or get rid of crosshair and keep 3rd person, one of them has to go in my opinion.

Edited January 22, 2013 by Tiresomehoopla

[BSB Jimmy 360]

get rid of it, i love playing on hardcore servers

[NickMackz 9]

I'm 180° different from the presiding opinion on this topic and it's kind of a bone of contention for me. The bottom line is:

No Crosshair ≠ More realistic

Some weapons are specialised for long range, some for mid and some for short range, sure. But in real life there is absolutely nothing that stops a person from pointing the angry end of a sniper rifle at a zombie's head and pulling the trigger at close range without having to look down the sights. In DayZ (or any other FPS for that matter) there is no stand in for proprioception (a sense of where your body and limbs are located in space) so it is perfectly normal to augment the HUD with something that gives a sense of where your gun is pointing. It could even be argued that a crosshair adds realism, the alternative being that you are carrying a weapon that if you shoot from the hip you have no idea where it will fire.

I propose that DayZ includes a dynamic crosshair like in the first Deus Ex game. Having a crosshair that varies the grouping of your shots based on movement, stamina and weapon choice. A well implemented one means that ironsights will always be the prevailing way to aim (instantaneous accuracy over delayed) but shots from the hip will have a likely sense of where you are shooting based on how long you take to line up the shot, just like in real life.

This is particularly frustrating because I like to apply some aiming deadzone when I play but I frequent a no-crosshair server so using a hatchet is particularly hit or miss.

I agree to a certain extent, but (excluding aiming deadzone) you can still shoot at close range without sights as you will get a fairly good feel for where your weapon is pointing with a bit of practice. It will usually be near but not at the center of the screen. I'd imagine that even with aiming deadzone, you would get a fairly good feel of how to shoot without sights with a bit of practice.

No crosshair doesn't equal more realistic, but no crosshair does equal more immersive and more realistic than the current overly accurate crosshair.

Personally I would like both 3rd person and crosshair to go but that is just my opinion and I know a lot of people disagree about losing 3rd person.

EDIT to clarify my opinion: I would like to see crosshair completely removed. I agree with what a lot of other people have said. It makes the game too easy and it is too accurate to be realistic. Dayz is not supposed to be easy - it is supposed to be difficult and challenging. Without being difficult and challenging, a lot of the appeal of the game is lost.

Edited January 22, 2013 by NickMackz

[Guest]

In terms of reducing the luck when firing from the hip, yes

You have the sights for 1st person,

However,

I like to use the cross air for referencing point. My team commonly using it for marking out possible weak spots in formations and where we can aim.

If you get rid of it, keep 3rd person :)

[MastaBlasta 9]

If it helps against hacking without question remove it, they will get over it.

[Feral (DayZ) 622]

In terms of reducing the luck when firing from the hip, yes

You have the sights for 1st person,

However,

I like to use the cross air for referencing point. My team commonly using it for marking out possible weak spots in formations and where we can aim.

If you get rid of it, keep 3rd person :)

what is with these bambi's and their reliance on the two 'crutches' - the crosshair and 3rd person?

In a whiney childlike screech they plead - ''if you take away one pleeeeease leave the other one or we won't be able to play dayz anymore''

Get a grip for crying out loud, all the top 5 'arcadey' FPS's have crosshairs and even they don't have 3rd person. Let's just have this one hardcore survival/FPS in our games library, c'mon, just one game that makes hitting a target from the hip tricky, like in real life.

Edited January 22, 2013 by wabbit

[Bribase 251]

I agree to a certain extent, but (excluding aiming deadzone) you can still shoot at close range without sights as you will get a fairly good feel for where your weapon is pointing with a bit of practice. It will usually be near but not at the center of the screen. I'd imagine that even with aiming deadzone, you would get a fairly good feel of how to shoot without sights with a bit of practice.

I see your point but IRL you do not need to have a "fairly good feel" for whether or not you'll score a headshot at certain ranges. At close enough range I should practically be able to press the muzzle against their head, be it assault rifle, sniper rifle or pistol. No guessing required.

How about this: How about a crosshair that can be activated (not toggled) at the press of a button that is redesigned without the accuracy of the current one (I'm thinking of a circle like the hatchet)? If you want to aim from the hip you have to do it actively, the grouping can be sharpened up in the same way as your zoom button (RMB). This has the benefit of being able to use it for finding the "sweet spot" on doors and vehicles. The interface is clean but a less accurate crosshair is there when you need it and ironsighting isn't an option (too slow or a weapon with a scope).

Edited January 22, 2013 by Bribase

[Guest]

what is with these bambi's and their reliance on the two 'crutches' - the crosshair and 3rd person?

In a whiney childlike screech they plead - ''if you take away one pleeeeease leave the other one or we won't be able to play dayz anymore''

Get a grip for crying out loud, All the top 5 'arcadey' FPS's have crosshairs and even they don't have 3rd person. Let's just have this one hardcore FPS in our games library, c'mon, just one game that makes hitting a target tricky.

Firstly I am no bambi.

Secondly I do not have a childlike screech, so please don't try to start a flamewar.

Third, I stated why I like it, Rocket says he wants two side to the argument. If you can't handle other opinions, don't comment.

Fourthly, What are the 5 top arcadey fps's?

[NickMackz 9]

what is with these bambi's and their reliance on the two 'crutches' - the crosshair and 3rd person?

In a whiney childlike screech they plead - ''if you take away one pleeeeease leave the other one or we won't be able to play dayz anymore''

Get a grip for crying out loud, All the top 5 FPS's have crosshairs and none of them have 3rd person. Let's just have this one hardcore FPS in our games library, c'mon.

I agree, I think Dayz should be a difficult and challending hardcore FPS. That is what makes it different from most other FPSs - it isn't designed for instant and easy fun. It has a learning curve, it is not as fast paced and it requires the player to think and plan more.

Yes I know that other FPSs have tactics that are very important to success but that is not what I am getting at. In other FPSs you don't need to plan where you are going and navigate using the sun, contours and stars (I am deliberately ignoring the annoying constant cloud direction) to avoid getting lost, going in circles, or simply having to run longer because you didn't think about your journey enough and ended up not where you needed to be. Other FPSs don't have diseases that you will have to diagnose yourself and find the appropriate drugs to cure yourself. Other FPSs don't leave you abondanded on a beach with not even a gun after you die. I could go on but you get the idea.

Dayz should not cater to people who want a fast paced easy PvP first person shooter, that isn't what it should be about. It should be about surviving in whatever way you see fit and provide an authentic and immersive experience in the process. To properly achieve this, 3rd person and a permanent crosshair need to go.

Just my opinion, feel free to dissagree :)

Edited January 22, 2013 by NickMackz

[Feral (DayZ) 622]

Firstly I am no bambi.

Anyone that feels they cannot play without the crosshair and/or 3rd person is a bambi imho

Edited January 22, 2013 by wabbit

[NickMackz 9]

I see your point but IRL you do not need to have a "fairly good feel" for whether or not you'll score a headshot at certain ranges. At close enough range I should practically be able to press the muzzle against their head, be it assault rifle, sniper rifle or pistol. No guessing required.

How about this: How about a crosshair that can be activated (not toggled) at the press of a button that is redesigned without the accuracy of the current one (I'm thinking of a circle like the hatchet)? If you want to aim from the hip you have to do it actively, the grouping can be sharpened up in the same way as your zoom button (RMB). This has the benefit of being able to use it for finding the "sweet spot" on doors and vehicles. The interface is clean but a less accurate crosshair is there when you need it and ironsighting isn't an option (too slow).

I agree that way of temporarily aiming more accurately without entering sights is a good idea. Perhaps add a feature where you can hold the right mouse button (or whatevery button) whilst your gun is at the hip to steady your aim, show a faint dot in the center of your screen and have your gun aimed roughly at the center. Not perfectly and with a reasonable amount of inaccuracy, but accurate enough to let you take better shots at short ranges without going into sights.

[Guest]

Anyone that feels they cannot play without the crosshair and/or 3rd person is a bambi imho

well you a damn fool

[Rastamaus 323]

what is with these bambi's and their reliance on the two 'crutches' - the crosshair and 3rd person?

In a whiney childlike screech they plead - ''if you take away one pleeeeease leave the other one or we won't be able to play dayz anymore''

Get a grip for crying out loud, all the top 5 'arcadey' FPS's have crosshairs and even they don't have 3rd person. Let's just have this one hardcore survival/FPS in our games library, c'mon, just one game that makes hitting a target from the hip tricky, like in real life.

Agreed, the games world needs this title to be unlike anything else out there.

[DemonGroover 8836]

Anyone that feels they cannot play without the crosshair and/or 3rd person is a bambi imho

Can we please take this Bambi reference to YouTube and leave it there?

It irritates me.

[-Gews- 7443]

Watch this little video I made on the subject. I was bored...

[Feral (DayZ) 622]

Watch this little video I made on the subject. I was bored...

Good work, this shows that you can still hit targets without crosshairs but it takes a few shots, the first part shows exactly why it needs to go, 3 shots 3 kills from the hip at 50+ 200 metres with a scoped rifle? that is shooting from the realms of fantasy.

Edited January 22, 2013 by wabbit