DayZ PS4 Discussion

[Baker. 1484]

That CPU is much more powerful than the one in the PS4

 

 

False, higher clock speed yes but same architecture with half the amount of cores plus much higher latency between system components. And this assumes a multithreaded engine. in addition the system is optimized to run nothing but the game and related services; no print spooler, no iTunes helper. A simple look at your task manager will show you all the little things chewing up your cycles that will not be have an impact on PS4 titles. The Cpu in PS4 can also clock itself higher to an, as of yet unknown, higher clock speed. Bottom line is: it sports better specs than many, if not most, PC's that attempt to run the game in its current unoptimized state. 

 

People like us with serious hardware will always prefer to run the PC version of any game but that doesn't mean the PS4 will be incompetent in its abilities. 

 

Small PS. Sony has stated many times that it is selling PS4's at a loss so  the $400 price tag isn't anything to judge its capabilities on. However even if you were so inclined  $400 can get you a fairly decent bang for your buck 

Edited August 23, 2014 by Bakermensch

[Death_Dealer 3155]

I see what you're saying, but the amount of cores only matters if the game can actually make use of them. Just because the PS4's cpu has 8 cores does not mean games will make use of most of them, that's up to the devs to optimize the game correctly, and optimization does not seem to be a strong suit of DayZ devs. 

 

For a game like DayZ, 4 faster cores > 8 slower cores, which I why I said that CPU is more powerful. I'm talking about just DayZ, not in general

Edited August 23, 2014 by Death Dealer

[Baker. 1484]

I see what you're saying, but the amount of cores only matters if the game can actually make use of them. Just because the PS4's cpu has 8 cores does not mean games will make use of most of them, that's up to the devs to optimize the game correctly, and optimization does not seem to be a strong suit of DayZ devs. 

 

For a game like DayZ, 4 faster cores > 8 slower cores, which I why I said that CPU is more powerful. I'm talking about just DayZ, not in general

No argument there, but as I made sure to point out in all my posts regarding this matter, the acceptability of performance assumes a more optimized (think multithreaded with gpu calls that were previously CPU calls) engine. Which they know they have to do and combined with the control scheme is probably the lions share of the porting process (chime in anytime accolyte)

Edited August 23, 2014 by Bakermensch

[calin_banc (DayZ) 1]

The issue with performance in MP is manly due to server side bottlenecks. You could have a computer from 1000 years into the future, it would still run at a "cinematic" 22-24fps, but at least it would look good, which is nice.

Edited August 23, 2014 by calin_banc

[UltimateGentleman 355]

The thing about console development though, is that even though the hardware can be limited that just means the developers have to squeeze out all the performance they possibly can and as the generation goes on they get more and more out of it.

 

 

Look at games like Resistance Fall Of Man which was one of the first games out on PS3, barely an improvement on the PS2 graphics.

And then scoot over to fairly recent games like The Last Of Us.

 

There isn't even slightly a contest between the two and yet they have the same hardware.

 

 

If they can't make DayZ look good on PS4 they weren't trying that hard to.

Perhaps DayZ could be one of the first games to actually push the new consoles to their limits instead of shitty Watch Dogs where they decided to dumb it down.

[Accolyte 1727]

optimization does not seem to be a strong suit of DayZ devs. 

 

There is no optimization going on not because the devs aren't good at it, but because this is not the time for it. Optimization takes place in beta or very very late alpha. That's how game development works and that's what I keep telling you guys over and over so can we please put this to rest for now? ;)

 

 

No argument there, but as I made sure to point out in all my posts regarding this matter, the acceptability of performance assumes a more optimized (think multithreaded with gpu calls that were previously CPU calls) engine. Which they know they have to do and combined with the control scheme is probably the lions share of the porting process (chime in anytime accolyte)

 

I can't really talk about what exactly is involved in porting the game. What you said is a part of it, but there are other things that need taking care of.

[vandal gab 1384]

On the CPU side I thought only Six jaguar cores and only 5GBs of RAM is available to PS4 devs the other two cores and memory is reserved to the os?

[itsirish 11]

Ill add a counter point.

 

It is the worst possible thing to happen to dayz.

 

• Being on a console they have to make considerations for console players thus limiting the game on pc.
• Being on console they have to restrict the controls to the very limited functions of a controller
• Being on console now they are diverting resources and money much of which came from pc gamers into a console version.
• Being on console the game will now be dumbed down to meet the pallete of the average console gamer. IE. Caliber dumbing down and reluctance to add 5.45x39, 9x18 makarov and 7.62x54r

 

The news of a console port of dayz is not good for anyone but Sony. It will only end up with a Dayz that is only half as pc focused as it could have been.

 

The game will get dumbed down even further now

And now I'll add counter points...

• BI just got a huge staff increase (in terms of how many people are working for them). The PC version was started first, therefore they need to finish a project before they can start a new one. They are smart people, so I think they will know that they need to keep the same amount of updates coming for PC even with the new console project.
• The PS4 has the pad which will definitely serve a purpose for the game. The buttons will all have functions and in terms of controls and whether or not some functions are taken out, I doubt there will be any taken out, or if so, unimportant ones and not many at all. And I'm assuming that you're a PC player, so really, how do the controls of the console version even affect you?
• I don't think money is an issue for BI. As of now, almost 2.5 million copies have been sold. Let's say BI gets HALF of the money from each game purchased, which would be $15. 15 X 2,500,000 is approximately $38,000,000. Even if they make $10 per game or less maybe, that's PLENTY of money. And they will make more money when/if preorders are available.
• You're talking about ammo dumbing down to better fit the average console gamer? That doesn't even make any sense...So what if they didn't add certain types of ammo? IT'S STILL DAYZ! Maybe the Mosin won't even be in the console version. So what? Big deal. Maybe all the guns are peashooters. So what? That doesn't change the game, that doesn't affect PC gamers, and that doesn't change the fact that the game is still DayZ.

[gibonez 3633]

 

And now I'll add counter points...

• BI just got a huge staff increase (in terms of how many people are working for them). The PC version was started first, therefore they need to finish a project before they can start a new one. They are smart people, so I think they will know that they need to keep the same amount of updates coming for PC even with the new console project.
• The PS4 has the pad which will definitely serve a purpose for the game. The buttons will all have functions and in terms of controls and whether or not some functions are taken out, I doubt there will be any taken out, or if so, unimportant ones and not many at all. And I'm assuming that you're a PC player, so really, how do the controls of the console version even affect you?
• I don't think money is an issue for BI. As of now, almost 2.5 million copies have been sold. Let's say BI gets HALF of the money from each game purchased, which would be $15. 15 X 2,500,000 is approximately $38,000,000. Even if they make $10 per game or less maybe, that's PLENTY of money. And they will make more money when/if preorders are available.
• You're talking about ammo dumbing down to better fit the average console gamer? That doesn't even make any sense...So what if they didn't add certain types of ammo? IT'S STILL DAYZ! Maybe the Mosin won't even be in the console version. So what? Big deal. Maybe all the guns are peashooters. So what? That doesn't change the game, that doesn't affect PC gamers, and that doesn't change the fact that the game is still DayZ.

 

 

I suppose you are right.

 

The latest updates for arma 3 have proved to me that the last thing Bohemia wants to do is dumb down the game.

 

They added weight, stamina, sway, weapon inertia, and soon they will be adding a nice and complex roto lib model to helicopter flight.

 

These new set of features shows me that realism is loved by Bohemia so that makes me happy.

[calin_banc (DayZ) 1]

Actually they implement what they want and it isn't as realistic as you may think. Hopefully what they wanna put in the game as time goes by, it's what we like and makes sense.

Edited August 25, 2014 by calin_banc

[UltimateGentleman 355]

On the CPU side I thought only Six jaguar cores and only 5GBs of RAM is available to PS4 devs the other two cores and memory is reserved to the os?

 

Not that it really matters as games don't even use that many cores yet.

 

http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/cpus/2010/07/05/how-many-cpu-cores-do-games-need/1

 

Even Crysis on Very High settings can be run on a dual core CPU.

So 6 cores will be plenty for a long time, hopefully some developers will prove that soon but it seems like only games next year are going to push the graphics to great levels.

 

This is off the point but y'know I find it funny how the PS4 is outselling the X1 3:1 but people come back with "The X1 has more games though" and yet the PS4 is still winning...imagine what happens when it's exclusives come out...

 

 

Anyway the PS4 should easily be able to handle DayZ the only reason it takes such powerful hardware now is because it isn't optimized, once it hits beta it'll become obvious that you don't need a $1000+ PC to run it.

[calin_banc (DayZ) 1]

BF4, Star Citizen and Watch Dogs from what I saw, are using 100% of the cpu (2500k@4,5GHz) at times, probably Crysis 3 as well in levels where there is a lot of grass, with BF getting some nice performance improvements under Mantle. As time goes by and devs stop focusing on older gen platforms (in which 3 core optimization was the default), multithreaded code will be more common.

 

Yes, performance wise at the moment, PS 4 is enough, at least they can chose 900p or something like that if needed. What I don't believe, is Dean's statement regarding performance improvements and engine stuff such as DX11, 64bit servers and so on, due to PS 4, when in fact, they've made enough money so far to do that. Moreover, the game should sell at least half of that from this point on, for the PC alone. Check Star Citizen with it's complexity and what they are doing, tech wise as well: mantle, tress fx, dx11 and most likely dx12, linux, etc., with work force I would say more expensive then Bohemia's. At the same time, they remain with the engine for any future games to build upon, win-win Bohemia.

 

Other than that yeah, is nice to expand user base, there shouldn't be any reason for the game to come dumb down by any means on the PC.

Edited August 25, 2014 by calin_banc

[Baker. 1484]

On the CPU side I thought only Six jaguar cores and only 5GBs of RAM is available to PS4 devs the other two cores and memory is reserved to the os?

As is the case with your PC. Although I'm working on a hack to get Windows to run off my modem :P

Edited August 25, 2014 by Bakermensch

[UltimateGentleman 355]

BF4, Star Citizen and Watch Dogs from what I saw, are using 100% of the cpu (2500k@4,5GHz) at times, probably Crysis 3 as well in levels where there is a lot of grass, with BF getting some nice performance improvements under Mantle. As time goes by and devs stop focusing on older gen platforms (in which 3 core optimization was the default), multithreaded code will be more common.

 

I doubt that's true, they probably use 100% of their allocated power not a full 6 cores they probably only use 2 cores and hit their max the engines won't be designed to use all of the power yet, if they did they'd look incredible...BF4 and Watch Dogs certainly don't.

 

That or they just didn't bother optimizing it and got lazy with graphics, again the hardware is there it's up to devs to utilize it effectively.

[q.S Sachiel 470]

BF4 is the old-persons' walk assist of the gaming world.

Good god that game was terrible.

Should not be used as any kind of optimisation/performance benchmark. ever :(.

I do find it intersting though that Multithreading hasn't been taken advantage of at all (minimally) recently despite the tech being available for some time.

 

Why is this?  Coders/devs not up to speed with the architecture, or just release pressures/product cycles etc?...

 

Not quite multithreading related, but towards the end of the x360/ps3 lifespan, they were flogging the hardware for all it was worth in the games department, but that's a single unit - pc hardware is a bit more variable, so is it the component conflicts&interactions that make it hard as well for PC?

Edited August 26, 2014 by q.S Sachiel

[calin_banc (DayZ) 1]

I doubt that's true, they probably use 100% of their allocated power not a full 6 cores they probably only use 2 cores and hit their max the engines won't be designed to use all of the power yet, if they did they'd look incredible...BF4 and Watch Dogs certainly don't.

 

That or they just didn't bother optimizing it and got lazy with graphics, again the hardware is there it's up to devs to utilize it effectively.

 

It's 4 core CPU and of course it shares resources with the OS and other small apps running in the background, just like in any environment. The game cannot run just by himself. As you can see, BF 4 under mantle and Crysis 3 in that grass level, can keep the CPU at 100%. Other than that, it varies accordingly to the load. Cry Engine 3 is able to use up to 8 cores, at least that was the last time I heard about it, however, each game must be optimized to do that.

 

Mantle and DX 12, just like consoles API, reduce the graphic API bottleneck within a system containing a CPU weaker than the GPU would need in order not to limit it.

 

 

http://i.imgur.com/S2BwDXR.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/f9FajEf.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/s0Nuetw.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/1ArNfyh.jpg

Edited August 26, 2014 by calin_banc

[generalkayoss 17]

Protip - if you have a weaker processor, unpark your cores.

Edited August 27, 2014 by generalkayoss

[calin_banc (DayZ) 1]

Parked cores are showed as idling as far as I know, so that doesn't always happen (at least I have never experienced it).

[generalkayoss 17]

I know several people who have gotten 10-30% more fps just from unparking. It didn't make much of a difference for me though, but I have an i5 4670k. One of it's cores is probably more than enough for DayZ.

[alsmir 255]

I don't see how it could work on a controller. If console users get dumbed down version that won't be DayZ anymore, so why bother?

 

$$$?

 

Anyway, I don't think it will be popular on PS4.

[Cpanther 221]

I think the main difference between PC and consoles is the Hard drive speed and capacity.. also perhaps the file system. That is the reason why you don't see so many MMO's in consoles, or they always feel incomplete.. to don't mention how hard is for developers to update games with Sony and Microsoft policies, in which games have to work at optimal performance at all times.

[terminal_boy 860]

No, it's because 2014 "next gen" consoles are basically mid-range gaming PCs from 2012 inside.

[Ironhuge 69]

My god, the one game (arma) I actually liked is getting a PS4 release? This is the end of my gaming era.

 

Welcome aim smoothing, poor performance (even worse), bad graphics, aim assist, net code issues, 60FOV limit, end of simulation etc etc.

 

I know it's because of money, but why do all the companies have to have StupidStation/lameBox releases? PC gaming is deteriorating while consoles get to live on last decades technology... Also inb4 "consoles are good today" and "consoles is not slowing down the evolution".

Edited August 30, 2014 by Ironhuge

[Cpanther 221]

My god, the one game (arma) I actually liked is getting a PS4 release? This is the end of my gaming era.

 

Welcome aim smoothing, poor performance (even worse), bad graphics, aim assist, net code issues, 60FOV limit, end of simulation etc etc.

 

I know it's because of money, but why do all the companies have to have StupidStation/lameBox releases? PC gaming is deteriorating while consoles get to live on last decades technology... Also inb4 "consoles are good today" and "consoles is not slowing down the evolution".

Money ?  :rolleyes:

 

So many companies going to Consoles expecting millions of cash, and then ending up losing money. The only ones making big cash with Consoles is Microsoft and Sony... Sad that so many Indie companies are learning that lesson the hard way. :(

[calin_banc (DayZ) 1]

My god, the one game (arma) I actually liked is getting a PS4 release? This is the end of my gaming era.

 

Welcome aim smoothing, poor performance (even worse), bad graphics, aim assist, net code issues, 60FOV limit, end of simulation etc etc.

 

I know it's because of money, but why do all the companies have to have StupidStation/lameBox releases? PC gaming is deteriorating while consoles get to live on last decades technology... Also inb4 "consoles are good today" and "consoles is not slowing down the evolution".

It's only Day Z, not Arma. At least for now.