The PvP Discussion Thread

[Freyar 8]

You can argue that all you want' date=' but the simple fact is that because people respawn, the value of life is non-existant.

[/quote']

which is precisely why we need a balancing factor. Last I checked this was a survival simulation, now obviously it cannot be 100% realistic with no respawns, so where death isn't permanent we need other game substitutes to promote value of life. The Bandit system is such a start, but more is needed to dissuade players from deathmatching at first sight and pull it back in line with the core of the mod.

Any ideas without penalizing me for protecting myself from unknowns? :P

[Owneh 0]

How about if you don't like pvp go play the las stand or someshit. Pvp is perfect as it is.

[Palora 6]

Any ideas without penalizing me for protecting myself from unknowns? :P

Plenty of them' date=' including my zombie magnet/ temporary ban if you go bellow the limit (I'd say around -3000 since that seems like a good area, now that I've actually killed others)

How about if you don't like pvp go play the las stand or someshit. Pvp is perfect as it is.

Or you can go play Deathmatch, oh wait, you can't handle a fight on equal terms, i forgot.

[ratszo 2]

For now, buddy-up with guys on ts and get tactical, share resources.

How ya gonna use a blood pack without a buddy?

Once direct chat is fixed, maybe a 'join squad' feature and other tweaks like skins and humanity, things will get better....

Yesterday, a guy sneeks up and shoots me in the back. Wounded, i turn, strafe and luckly cap his ass cqc.

He was loaded! --map, compass, knife, matches, alice, 5 bags of blood!

What the hell was he thinking? All i had was the starter kit.

[Redrick (DayZ) 72]

Thought you guys would get a kick out of this, spawned and immediatly started taking fire. Saw the guy up on the landing here, and took cover. I immediatly opened fire and eventually planted 2 headshots.

Fucking griefer pvpers, I imagine the body next to him was the first guy he killed.

[bionoman 17]

Blitzy "But that doesn't mean I'll ever respect Hunters. As a Hunter, you're erasing a player's entire progress (hours, days, weeks) in one blow - for your own selfish wants and needs. In a post-apocalyptic situation which tests the very foundations of humanity, here are people who give no regard for others (or the time/effort they've put into their characters) and are prepared to take it all away all for the sake of 'scoring a kill'. Bored of shooting the braindead zombies, they simply feel an urge to fuck real players over."

UNFORTUNATELY -

Not Many people these days are Humans, Many people are ANimals apparently and dont Understand the Concept of "someone Spending a whole day trying to survive".

Seriously

I will GLADLY post the name of such people

COMMISSAR GIRLFRIEND

I spent 3 Hours of my Life to walk to the NW airfield, Met another player, Teamed up,

made a Safe haven, spent another hour scavenging for foor water and weapons,.

Everyhting was Fine.

Then i wrote in side channel - NW airfield is a safe haven - Come here - trade, Or get what you need, There was Plenty Of Stuff.

But NOOoooooooooooooooooooo

Mr Commissar Girlfriend Decides to Come there with a Sniper and Shoot us FOR NO F****ING REASON!

WTF.

Then i Respawn in Solnicniy

Tell me, Is this ANY KIND OF F******ING ROLEPLAY !??!?!?

And NO I Couldnt Give two Shits if hes a Pro Or Noob. I Play for the Fun, Not Kills.

---

Sorry of it sounds like ranting, But i spent all Day, Trying to enjoy the Mod, However, i end up dieng for no reason.

Another example: A Player by the name of Gear - We meet up in side channel, i finally get to him and wanted to tell him that we need to go to NW airifeld. But i cant say that over Side channel becouse people Overhear and will come and PVP you Like usuall. SO, I Tell the Guy please get Teamspeak. He Doesnt know what Teamspeak is, so i kept Telling him to Google it. He then swears at me, im Like : o_o Then Finally he shoots me.

reason : He got annoyed becouse i kept telling him to get Teamspeak even though he has no clue what it is.

SO what the hell, is PVP good? Yes to a Point, But not to the point where people get shot Constantly For no reason.

Or

Atleast Fix the spawn points so people Dont have to walk 5000 Meters to get from one point to the point where they used to be.

Going to NW airfield, then Respawning at Random Locations along the coast is a wrecking.

Why arent the respawn Points around the Same town, with Random Locations.

why across the Map!!!

[dunnobe 3]

Same here, got killed 5x in a row by a retarded sniper in Cherno to get my gear back. I eventually succeeded so I hope they put in the bandit skin really quick so he gets what he deserves. Thank god i still have my stuff.

I'm kinda getting fed up by all of that killing for no reason. More people will get sick of it and eventually abandon the mod in a week or 2.

[bionoman 17]

Same im getting Fuking Fed up By idiots shooting people For NO fukin Reason.

They already have a Sniper, Why Shoot someone that has almost No equipment!!!

You know what,

They should make the Killers Shown on the map.

IF someone Kills 5 People, they appear on the map as Mureders -

That Will eventually Stop the Killing

[upqShp 2]

This one time, I healed a guy who nearly got eaten by some zombies.

Nearly instantly after he could walk again, he shot me in the head.

Why the heck would anyone do this? We must survive, together...

You know what' date='

They should make the Killers Shown on the map.

IF someone Kills 5 People, they appear on the map as Mureders -

That Will eventually Stop the Killing

[/quote']

This is the best Idea I've read about these things so far.

[bionoman 17]

Mortal Online had the same Concept of Open Space PVPing,

To Counter the Endless slaughter, They marked the PK's with a Red shield Meaning they can easily get killed in Large towns.

So their forced to stay out of towns

In fact, You can type : /guard, In the town area - and the Killer whos marked red will get instantly Killed by a Ai.

This made a safe haven for the Newbies and Players who arent marked as Killers or Simply want to spend the Day Hacking wood. Or whatnot.

- - Marking the Killers on map with Arma's Scripts is the least that can be done to Stop the Mindless PVP.

On top of that,

If they DO introduce some kind of Save haven Camp - or Script to make a Camp Or smthing.

That Concept of /Guard can be introduced.

But thats for another thread - ( Build Camp option ) - that needs resources - ( And a Box appears to store all your goodies ) .

[R Lee 0]

I'm going to keep an eye on the mod, but I'm not playing anymore as long as this is so rampant. It really sucks to spend two hours painstakingly acquiring loot just to be shot without provocation. People shouldn't kid themselves, these guys aren't desperate for loot, they are just being dicks. I don't see any difference between them and tkers from any other game in the past.

I really enjoyed the mod the first several days, I didn't see any killing and bypassed and assisted countless survivors. It seems like the Bandit skin became a badge of honor that all these assholes now want to sport.

I really wish at this point that this mod was singleplayer or actual coop.

[rocket 16567]

DayZ was designed to be impossibly cruel, dark, and brutal. It was not designed as a game it was more of an experiment, I prefer the term "anti-game" - in other words the mechanics are not designed to be balanced, or offer a way out for different situations. These are things game designers normally take care with.

I discussed this with the our team members at great length of many arguments, the idea behind safe zones. The eventual consensus was that it went against the ethos of the project. This whole concept, and the reason it "works", is that there IS no safe zone (unless you make it). Your actions have real and brutal consequences. There are no game designed safety nets.

It is the kind of system/environment that will sometimes make you want to punch the computer screen. But with that kind of risk, comes great emotional reward when you carry something off. The sniper you describe - there are people like this in the world, and in the breakdown of order I can bet that there would be people who would sit on a roof and shoot people "just for the lulz".

The system makes no judgement on player actions, and this is one of the only real rules that was adopted for the development. While consequences may occur for a particular action (e.g. humanity loss), no judgement is implied or placed on that behavior. Beyond hacks, and misuse of exploits, regulating player behavior is not a scope of this project. If players, themselves, wish to group together and attempt to regulate the behavior. Well, that's entirely up to you.

This kind of activity is not for everyone. It really is more of a social experiment than a game. There is no intention to change that, if you dislike the PVP, then I would recommend playing Dynamic Zombie Sandbox or Celery's excellent Chernaus Apocalypse - there is no point in these being recreated through this mod.

Why make something that has already been done?

[Panzerfaust (DayZ) 5]

Thank God, Rocket. I think more than a few people needed to read that.

[noisegrrrl 8]

DayZ was designed to be impossibly cruel' date=' dark, and brutal. It was not designed as a game it was more of an experiment, I prefer the term "anti-game" - in other words the mechanics are not designed to be balanced, or offer a way out for different situations. These are things game designers normally take care with.

I discussed this with the our team members at great length of many arguments, the idea behind safe zones. The eventual consensus was that it went against the ethos of the project. This whole concept, and the reason it "works", is that there IS no safe zone (unless you make it). Your actions have real and brutal consequences. There are no game designed safety nets.

It is the kind of system/environment that will sometimes make you want to punch the computer screen. But with that kind of risk, comes great emotional reward when you carry something off. The sniper you describe - there are people like this in the world, and in the breakdown of order I can bet that there would be people who would sit on a roof and shoot people "just for the lulz".

The system makes no judgement on player actions, and this is one of the only real rules that was adopted for the development. While consequences may occur for a particular action (e.g. humanity loss), no judgement is implied or placed on that behavior. Beyond hacks, and misuse of exploits, regulating player behavior is not a scope of this project. If players, themselves, wish to group together and attempt to regulate the behavior. Well, that's entirely up to you.

This kind of activity is not for everyone. It really is more of a social experiment than a game. There is no intention to change that, if you dislike the PVP, then I would recommend playing Dynamic Zombie Sandbox or Celery's excellent Chernaus Apocalypse - there is no point in these being recreated through this mod.

Why make something that has already been done?

[/quote']

What about making the "Humanity" meter actually mean what it's supposed to be meaning: the humanity level of a player.

The lower it gets, the crazier one get. That means emptying a whole clip instead of firing a single bullet by accident because of frenzy for instance.

No skins, but actual balancing elements.

The danger of playing with others is that they can betray you.

The danger of playing alone as a psycho is to become crazy.

[bodycount 83]

I think having over 50% of your playerbase in the bandit skin speaks volumes for the lack of judgement on characters actions. When little johnny has no repercussions or oversight for his actions the amount of PvP drool excreting from his mouth will become unsoakable.

Perhaps investigating the results of other games that have attempted this will lead you to the conclusion that you are after. Research EvE online. Research Darkfall. Both have endless hours of reading on this subject matter. What you are attempting has been tried, many times before. You are not the first. You just seem to not be a student of history. "Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it" -Churchill

As for that random single sniper on the rooftop you described? Yeah it is a huge percentage of your playerbase. It is the majority not the minority.

This is the 4chan generation. Hide yo beans, hide yo bag cus they raping everyone up in here.

[Noggin (DayZ) 1]

Why make something that has already been done?

You already have' date=' alot of games focused around limitless pvp have done this at some point, it never works and people leave because these "real world lulz snipers" are much more common ingame than they are in real life.

In other news, player killing is going to go through the roof now now that everyone knows thats how it is intended. What little camaraderie is left will die out soon I wager.

Guess I better stock up on beans, grab my trusty CZ 550 and join the PK'ers camping in the treelines. :-/

[edit'] umm... to be constructive though, a more in depth faction system may help people organise anti-bandit peace-keepers maybe, or make the areas with good loot completely filled with zombies that can only be cleared with a team of people, hell even outright removing or limiting scoped rifles/nvg would go a long way.

[rocket 16567]

The humanity system, which currently doing nothing, is still gathering data. This allows us to review the data.

This is now an organic, living system. You can see, live, the changes that we make have on statistics such as the average survival time. Through players learning how everything works and educating each other - we have seen average life expectancy rise from around 2 hours, to over 4 hours. None of that can realistically be attributed to any development action - its all been player actions.

This is not a game, and we don't have the resources to develop/balance/administer the methods of other games even if we wanted too.

People seem to mix up regulation with consequence. The two are very separate in this project. Player behavior will NOT be regulated. Ever. But more consequence will definitely be added. The first attempt at this was the bandit skin, making a return in 1.5.2 (finally).

This system will always allow you to play and experiment what you would do in such a situation. That is going to result in some cruel, horrifically unbalanced situations which will probably result in some players deleting DayZ and never coming back. But in that process they experienced some real human emotions.

If you don't like experiencing those kind of real human emotions, I suggest doing something else where you aren't confronted with them. Like watching Grey's Anatomy.

[Panzerfaust (DayZ) 5]

I think having over 50% of your playerbase in the bandit skin speaks volumes for the lack of judgement on characters actions. When little johnny has no repercussions or oversight for his actions the amount of PvP drool excreting from his mouth will become unsoakable.

Perhaps investigating the results of other games that have attempted this will lead you to the conclusion that you are after. Research EvE online. Research Darkfall. Both have endless hours of reading on this subject matter. What you are attempting has been tried' date=' many times before. You are not the first. You just seem to not be a student of history. "Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it" -Churchill

As for that random single sniper on the rooftop you described? Yeah it is a huge percentage of your playerbase. It is the majority not the minority.

This is the 4chan generation. Hide yo beans, hide yo bag cus they raping everyone up in here.

[/quote']

Several people in my group are now bandits because we killed people who shot at us first. I think the humanity system needs major modifications before you can really start to filter out the actual serial killers in this game versus the part timers or the self-defense types.

You can kill anyone anywhere in EVE if you really, really want to. There are a few speedbumps in highsec, but they can be worked around by determined players. There have been instances of people being griefed out of the game or off of their characters for prolonged periods of time in high-sec because determined people keep killing them. And yet, somehow, the game keeps growing. R331 W0r1D 1U1Z $N1P3R$ can still make people's lives a living hell in that game, but you have means at your disposal to fight back and make it as hard for them to get their jollies as possible. Likewise with Dayz.

Emualynk, no. Just, no. The game is about ACTUAL human emotions, not a roll of the dice determined by the server.

[noisegrrrl 8]

Emualynk' date=' no. Just, no. The game is about ACTUAL human emotions, not a roll of the dice determined by the server.

[/quote']

The problem is some people are not role-playing this at all.

I don't mean going in a frenzy after 10 kill.

I mean going in a frenzy after 100 kills with absolutely no human interaction meanwhile.

Have it being reflected on the gameplay.

People playing with other players have real disadvantages, they are easier to see, they can be betrayed by their own people, one of them can fuck up and attract a zombie.

Loner don't have that problem at all, it just forces players to try to retain at least a certain humanity level and not become a beast (ie not kill 100% of the time but 80-90%).

[rocket 16567]

Personally, I have found when I travel with a group - my life expectancy is an order of magnitude higher than travelling alone. You move using cover, terrain, bounding - use your military tactics and a group can be extremely effective. When our staff team has been moving as a group - we are yet to have a single group member die to human fire despite being contacted many times.

Celery has made Chernarus Apoc. This is a textbook cooperative mission. I don't think its worthwhile me doing the same with DayZ as what is the point of the introduced lag and the heavy server administration when everyone is off doing their own thing and minding their business?

We will have more CONSEQUENCE for actions. There is a consequence for shooting first on your character - whether that is in cold blood or in self defence.

I killed my first player last night. To be honest I didn't really have a reason. I was escorting some newbies to the Southern Airfield, this guy didn't respond to us and started running away. I fired some warning shots as he run away. For some reason, curiosity maybe, or maybe just because I could. I carried on firing and killed him. The event disturbed me so much, I was still thinking about it the next day. I can't recall an event in a video game ever affecting me so much.

[Noggin (DayZ) 1]

I killed my first player last night. To be honest I didn't really have a reason. I was escorting some newbies to the Southern Airfield' date=' this guy didn't respond to us and started running away. I fired some warning shots as he run away. For some reason, curiosity maybe, or maybe just because I could. I carried on firing and killed him. The event disturbed me so much, I was still thinking about it the next day. I can't recall an event in a video game ever affecting me so much.

[/quote']

DayZ

Murder Simulator :)

I don't think anyone wants to lose the ability to do this, more "consequential reasoning" sounds great though.

[Panzerfaust (DayZ) 5]

Emualynk' date=' no. Just, no. The game is about ACTUAL human emotions, not a roll of the dice determined by the server.

[/quote']

The problem is some people are not role-playing this at all.

I don't mean going in a frenzy after 10 kill.

I mean going in a frenzy after 100 kills with absolutely no human interaction meanwhile.

Have it being reflected on the gameplay.

People playing with other players have real disadvantages, they are easier to see, they can be betrayed by their own people, one of them can fuck up and attract a zombie.

Loner don't have that problem at all, it just forces players to try to retain at least a certain humanity level and not become a beast (ie not kill 100% of the time but 80-90%).

Role play is not necessary to experience the things Rocket wants people to experience with this mod. Any time there are actual assets that people have worked for on the line, there will be emotion, roleplay or not. You kinds of militant roleplayers who are very hard core about the whole thing do a mighty fine job of making the game feel artificial and dry for those of us who are not as enthusiastic about roleplay as you are.

Everything you describe is still possible with the bandit skin as-is.

[my_shortcoming 8]

I felt genuine anguish and sadness when, whilst breaching an air-craft control tower in NW airfield with my group, confusion ensued and I ended up putting two shotgun rounds into his chest/face. I didn't even know the guy but he had my back, and had done so for a few hours before hand, and I had commited manslaughter.

If this had been someone attacking us, or another survivor we didn't know I wouldn't have cared but one of my team got killed and I felt it!

[noisegrrrl 8]

Role play is not necessary to experience the things Rocket wants people to experience with this mod. Any time there are actual assets that people have worked for on the line' date=' there will be emotion, roleplay or not.[/u'] You kinds of militant roleplayers who are very hard core about the whole thing do a mighty fine job of making the game feel artificial and dry for those of us who are not as enthusiastic about roleplay as you are.

Everything you describe is still possible with the bandit skin as-is.

By roleplay I mean interacting with others not playing it like any other fps (and no, that doesn't mean making friends with everyone).

Also a skin is much more artificial than actually feeling yourself becoming crazy but well.

The Bandit skin has his face covered, an interesting thing to see would be mask, or balaclava to cover one's face, hiding your name in the process, if you want to play bandit, you have to make sure no one know who you were if you leave a survivor behind. But it would also make you a target, but volontarily, not because the game decided.

[Panzerfaust (DayZ) 5]

Role play is not necessary to experience the things Rocket wants people to experience with this mod. Any time there are actual assets that people have worked for on the line' date=' there will be emotion, roleplay or not.[/u'] You kinds of militant roleplayers who are very hard core about the whole thing do a mighty fine job of making the game feel artificial and dry for those of us who are not as enthusiastic about roleplay as you are.

Everything you describe is still possible with the bandit skin as-is.

By roleplay I mean interacting with others not playing it like any other fps (and no, that doesn't mean making friends with everyone).

Also a skin is much more artificial than actually feeling yourself becoming crazy but well.

The Bandit skin has his face covered, an interesting thing to see would be mask, or balaclava to cover one's face, hiding your name in the process, if you want to play bandit, you have to make sure no one know who you were if you leave a survivor behind. But it would also make you a target, but volontarily, not because the game decided.

The intelligent people who last more than a few hours in this game are the ones who understand that your best chances of staying alive for long periods of time are to interact with others. The bandit skin marks you as a dangerous person and a potentially unstable ally. Everything you want is already here, but the balaclava option would be interesting to have.