The PvP Discussion Thread

[tpenn 9]

It's not griefing' date=' though. It's what should be happening.

Think of this akin to EVE online. You put yourself out there, somebody somewhere is going to want you dead because of you what you have. It's just the nature of survival.

[/quote']

No, it's not EVE online, firstly EVE has PVP at it's core and a system to promote and regulate it, second if it were, then such a system (e.g. CONCORD, sec status) would be happily pounding ass of anyone who shot first (unless you want it to be nullsec everywhere, in which case I suggest you go back about 10 years before CONCORD when EVE's playerbase almost died because PK griefers did exactly what they're doing to this game today).

Unfortunately this is part of the larger problem, with a little bit of exposure , DayZ has opened itself up to all the griefers from games where they were previously restricted to petty grief, and now allowed to roam free on the ranges of unrestricted asshatism.

I have no way of knowing wherefrom everyone heard about this mod, but I'm willing to bet it's become a shining beacon of light for all the EVE Online failpirate/PVP rejects, bottom-feeding 4channers, redditors, and all the other denizens of those scummier parts of the internets.

[griffinz 2816]

Eve uses AI and safezones to police the PvP...I don't think we want to see AI policing us in DayZ

[nuttex 51]

TEXT

Furry Yiff Griefing Defense Forces

PEW PEW PEW! I is dah l337 Snipagh!

This.

[Derranged 2]

Eve uses AI and safezones to police the PvP...I don't think we want to see AI policing us in DayZ

Hello' date='

I agree with you, AI driven NPC's which keep us in-line is not exactly the best idea. However many people complain about being attacked by another player should just leave now. If this scenario happened in real life how would you survive? You have to kill to survive, you couldn't take any chances as a friendly who you have randomly met up with could shove a blunt knife into your back.

You never know, so in-game I pretty much kill-on-sight. If there was a system trying to actually stop me from killing my enemy then what's worth playing the mod? When it's based around survival! Even if there were PVP Free Zones I reckon it would ruin the game. It would make it more of a role playing game and would probably destroy the fan-base.

Overall, can't people understand that the mod is about [b']suvival! If somebody cannot understand it then just tell them to leave the game and go back to playing Farmville!

~Derranged

[tpenn 9]

If this scenario happened in real life how would you survive? You have to kill to survive' date=' you couldn't take any chances as a friendly who you have randomly met up with could shove a blunt knife into your back.[/quote']

I'm sorry but if this were a "real life" scenario and you think you have to kill to survive that makes you a pretty shitty human being imho. I've said it time and again, despite what anarchists, emo's and otherwise disenfranchised radicalism would have you believe, the telltale sign of human behaviour in a crisis is that we use teamwork to overcome, that's what makes us survive better than savage animals.

So if this were to happen in real life, I'd be pretty content to stake my faith in humanity and find others to work with to overcome while you can persist your paranoias that would probably have you killed or die alone.

[Derranged 2]

If this scenario happened in real life how would you survive? You have to kill to survive' date=' you couldn't take any chances as a friendly who you have randomly met up with could shove a blunt knife into your back.[/quote']

I'm sorry but if this were a "real life" scenario and you think you have to kill to survive that makes you a pretty shitty human being imho. I've said it time and again, despite what anarchists, emo's and otherwise disenfranchised radicalism would have you believe, the telltale sign of human behaviour in a crisis is that we use teamwork to overcome, that's what makes us survive better than savage animals.

So if this were to happen in real life, I'd be pretty content to stake my faith in humanity and find others to work with to overcome while you can persist your paranoias that would probably have you killed or die alone.

Hello,

Well, in my opinion you can survive with teamwork yes. The hardest part would be to find another person who wouldn't like to kill you. In those situations some people might get jealous of the weapon you have and murder you in the night.

You never know if you are being used by another person. As in, you and the other guy are headed to a location where a lot of loot might be, they could end up killing you and keeping all of the loot for themselves.

All of this happens in real life, but in an un-controllable scenario like this it would be most present. We have not yet faced a Zombie Appocalypse so nobody can judge the outcome of friendship.

You might meet up with somebody who looks like a nice guy, but is slowly becoming insane. When a person becomes insane they can become very deadly and attack you, even if you have been their friend for a very long time. Our brain is complex, a wolf would survive longer then any human would because they have more instinct to survive then we do. All of our instinct to survive has almost been wiped out because of everything we have invented to make life easier.

Overall, yes. You can be friendly to some people, but some others may have to be put down. As from many games you have your Bandits or Psychopaths who will also kill you on sight.

So, in my opinion, I shoot to kill if they are hostile. If I was able to reason with an un-armed survivor then yeah, we could team up.

Since we have never experienced a true apocalypse in real life we have no understanding of what the outcome might be.

~Derranged

[Credan 0]

So if this were to happen in real life' date=' I'd be pretty content to stake my faith in humanity and find others to work with to overcome while you can persist your paranoias that would probably have you killed or die alone.

[/quote']

And that's the mentality that gets people exploited.

From what I've seen, if people used a sliver of common sense (running around Elektro, at night, with a flare in hand, I'm looking at you) you wont deal with anyone.

Hell, the past few times I've been PK'ed have simply been from my own stupidity, either from trusting someone (I do have a group I work with, so don't bother pulling the "Loner gonna die" card) or moving into the open without checking.

Aside from "realism" or "morals", DayZ would be absolutely boring without the potential for PvP.

[Jeff (DayZ) 1]

The -only- pvp I dislike it the blatant killing of newbies on the coast. Sure, some beans are nice but when I follow a trail of 15 dead new bodies because some fucker with NVG's though it'd be funny, that's not good.

PvP for no other reason than PvP is not really the point. If he has a better gun, sure. More food? Sure. Better maps or a compass, or something? Sure.

Just for the sake of killing him? No.

[Hesher (DayZ) 2]

i hate pkers with a passion and couldn't bring myself to be one(I tried) but they must be there, its their role, someone has to be the scum and it happens that the game is played by real humans in a sim like survival game so it transcends very well, naturally.

so do not change pvp too much plz.

[bacon55 (DayZ) 2]

What system do you suggest to stop people from going on rampages with powerful weapons? If they've managed to achieve those powerful weapons' date=' then maybe they deserve to be able to pick on the weak and easy targets to survive. Do you think that everyone who kills other players are assholes, or are playing the game "wrong"? Perhaps it's something you have to resort to when you want to survive long enough. [/quote']

You have uberleet weaponz, backpack full of food and ammo to support said uberleet weaponz along with NVG. and your first thought is "ZOMG I GOTTA KILL THAT DOODZ ON DA BEECH CUZ I NEED HIS FLAREZ"

No. Just no.

Call a spade a spade: you're doing it to be an asshole. If this were counterstrike or PR, the common goal is to kill your opponent, so in that context killing other people is positive participation. But if the primary goal though is to SURVIVE and you're just killing for LULZ then that makes you an asshole. End of story. Massage it anyway you have to tell yourself to sleep at night, maybe you're a good guy IRL, or maybe you're just RP'ing an asshole in-game, the matter stands you're an asshole.

And anyone that for a second thinks this is how a real SURVIVAL SIM would play out, you need to check yourself because SURVIVAL in its closest simulation (life, society) has proved time and again the vast majority of "survivors" find overwhelming benefits from teamwork and only a slim minority resort to what we see becoming the majority behaviour in this game. So unless the official backstory here is that the apocalypse happened on an outcast island full of society's unwanted delinquent socipathic killers, this game should be played like a SURVIVAL SIM and not a deathmatch sim. If it's being played as the latter then clearly the simulation rules need to be adjusted.

This cannot be repeated enough.

There's some serious cognitive dissonance going on in the brains of a lot of the denizens here.

[tpenn 9]

DayZ would be absolutely boring without the potential for PvP.

Potential for PVP and constant PVP are entirely different things. And if wanting to use teamwork in an apocalypse sim gets you exploited almost everytime, then it probably isn't an apocalypse sim and instead a deathmatch sim.

But hey if you think that mentality's not fitting for a crisis situation, do feel free next time a tornado, or earthquake or tsunami rips through the closest part of your world to grab a gun and start shooting everyone you see.

[bacon55 (DayZ) 2]

If this scenario happened in real life how would you survive? You have to kill to survive' date=' you couldn't take any chances as a friendly who you have randomly met up with could shove a blunt knife into your back.[/quote']

I'm sorry but if this were a "real life" scenario and you think you have to kill to survive that makes you a pretty shitty human being imho. I've said it time and again, despite what anarchists, emo's and otherwise disenfranchised radicalism would have you believe, the telltale sign of human behaviour in a crisis is that we use teamwork to overcome, that's what makes us survive better than savage animals.

So if this were to happen in real life, I'd be pretty content to stake my faith in humanity and find others to work with to overcome while you can persist your paranoias that would probably have you killed or die alone.

Hello,

Well, in my opinion you can survive with teamwork yes. The hardest part would be to find another person who wouldn't like to kill you. In those situations some people might get jealous of the weapon you have and murder you in the night.

You never know if you are being used by another person. As in, you and the other guy are headed to a location where a lot of loot might be, they could end up killing you and keeping all of the loot for themselves.

All of this happens in real life, but in an un-controllable scenario like this it would be most present. We have not yet faced a Zombie Appocalypse so nobody can judge the outcome of friendship.

You might meet up with somebody who looks like a nice guy, but is slowly becoming insane. When a person becomes insane they can become very deadly and attack you, even if you have been their friend for a very long time. Our brain is complex, a wolf would survive longer then any human would because they have more instinct to survive then we do. All of our instinct to survive has almost been wiped out because of everything we have invented to make life easier.

Overall, yes. You can be friendly to some people, but some others may have to be put down. As from many games you have your Bandits or Psychopaths who will also kill you on sight.

So, in my opinion, I shoot to kill if they are hostile. If I was able to reason with an un-armed survivor then yeah, we could team up.

Since we have never experienced a true apocalypse in real life we have no understanding of what the outcome might be.

~Derranged

Humans have, however, been utterly isolated from society and government, and here's a hint, it didn't turn into a bloodbath free for all.

[Jeff (DayZ) 1]

They also didn't respawn.

[bacon55 (DayZ) 2]

They also didn't respawn.

The primary reason why the bullshit survival argument doesn't hold any water.

[Derranged 2]

Humans have' date=' however, been utterly isolated from society and government, and here's a hint, it didn't turn into a bloodbath free for all.

[/quote']

Hello,

Humans haven't been into any sort of major apocalypse yet. I mean something like if America collapses. If America collapsed you would have millions of people fighting for the main sources, Food and Water.

American civilians can be very heavily armed at some points and there would be blood shed. In those times groups would band together and become "Bandits". They would kill-on-sight to be able to scavenge Food, Water and mostly Ammo.

You will get your fair share of friendly people, and your fair share of people who will kill you for nothing.

~Derranged

[noisegrrrl 8]

What about some kind of hallucination system?

If your humanity score is really too negative (and by that I don't mean killing 3 or 4 people, but more like killing by the dozens) you start becoming a real psycho and get hallucinations, or start yelling/grunting randomly, possibly attracting attention in the process, or could randomly lose control.

[Palora 6]

It's not griefing' date=' though. It's what should be happening.

Think of this akin to EVE online. You put yourself out there, somebody somewhere is going to want you dead because of you what you have. It's just the nature of survival.

[/quote']

It's not EvE, and most PK doesn't happen because of what you might have, it happens because "Herp Derp i kill all, MUAHAHAHAHAA" but if you really wanna stick to the eve comparison (dont't know why you keep insisting) think of it as gate camping without the gates, you enter the retards shooting range (and it can be anyplace, at any time) *BANG* "Herp Derp i PWN YU, I l33t", what you may or may not carry doesn't matter.

If it did, Bandits wouldn't be taking out entire groups, waste of ammo, especially for decent weapons.

We are not saying NO PK, we are saying stop the retards who PK because they are not getting banned, you know who they are if you played any other arma multi, it's the same retarded lot that set off satchel charges in the base during a domination game. (and a few others who know they get banned and don't go full retard on normal servers)

Reasons to NOT PK:

- Easier to group with people.

- Chance of zombie attack if your not in a safe spot.

Both easy to get over by having rl/clan friends,a good positions, ammo and aim.

Reasons to PK:

- Easy to do.

- Safe from PK by random dudes (because you shoot first).

- Lots of Supplies (so much so that you don't have to worry about them anymore)

- Feeling of superiority over your kills

[bacon55 (DayZ) 2]

Humans have' date=' however, been utterly isolated from society and government, and here's a hint, it didn't turn into a bloodbath free for all.

[/quote']

Hello,

Humans haven't been into any sort of major apocalypse yet. I mean something like if America collapses. If America collapsed you would have millions of people fighting for the main sources, Food and Water.

American civilians can be very heavily armed at some points and there would be blood shed. In those times groups would band together and become "Bandits". They would kill-on-sight to be able to scavenge Food, Water and mostly Ammo.

You will get your fair share of friendly people, and your fair share of people who will kill you for nothing.

~Derranged

You don't know your history.

Many areas have suffered conditions (minus zombies) very much like those depicted in game.

From major disaster areas with no outside help to the colonization of unknown wilderness.

Generally speaking even in crisis situations people just don't go on shooting rampages.

Anyway the argument is stupid, people respawn, there is no actual simulation of survival. Moving right along. Stop bringing it up.

[orbital 10]

PvP and Humanity system seems to work fine in my opinion.

I think the solution is rewards instead of penalty (read my suggestion post)

http://www.dayzmod.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=477

[noisegrrrl 8]

PvP and Humanity system seems to work fine in my opinion.

I think the solution is rewards instead of penalty (read my suggestion post)

http://www.dayzmod.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=477

I don't know, would kinda make sense to me to actually make player who act like psychos (alone, killing everything in sight, not interacting with others) become psychos in the end.

But yeah, having an uniform for bandits is possibly not the best solution.

[griffinz 2816]

Well, the bottom line is: PvP is here to say.

Reward/penalty may be balanced in beta release

[tpenn 9]

Humans haven't been into any sort of major apocalypse yet. I mean something like if America collapses. If America collapsed you would have millions of people fighting for the main sources' date=' Food and Water.

American civilians can be very heavily armed at some points and there would be blood shed. In those times groups would band together and become "Bandits". They would kill-on-sight to be able to scavenge Food, Water and mostly Ammo.

[/quote']

And I'm sure every bandit touches themselves to that fantasy but that's all it is. From tsunami's to tornado's, disasters and floods, famine's to plagues, humans have always worked together more so than they have worked apart. Probably the closest thing to a zombie out break was The Black Plague, where ruthlessly superstitious about what caused it and who was infected. And even then, in the midst of the darkest ages, scarcest of food supplies and death tolls from infections measured in thousands of bodies... even then humanity didn't resort to killing everyone on site; even then society pulled together enough to not resort to what we're seeing in this game.

[Freyar 8]

You can argue that all you want, but the simple fact is that because people respawn, the value of life is non-existant. I really think primary weapons need to be made more rare at the very least to make them a bit of a treasure.

[Owneh 0]

Okay even though I love pvp, I just want to end the arguments about humans nature.

BEFORE WE WERE CIVILISED however after we evolved to become humans what happened? There was apes, stronger, bigger brains, physically superior to us, however we survived. Why? We grouped up and used communication, that is how we are still here, if our nature was to not help each other and be selfish then humans wouldn't exist right now. The game is pefect like this imo however. Just quit it with the human nature arguments, it has been proven that its our nature to group up otherwise we wouldnt have society now we would all be running around in fields naked and killing cows.

[tpenn 9]

You can argue that all you want' date=' but the simple fact is that because people respawn, the value of life is non-existant.

[/quote']

which is precisely why we need a balancing factor. Last I checked this was a survival simulation, now obviously it cannot be 100% realistic with no respawns, so where death isn't permanent we need other game substitutes to promote value of life. The Bandit system is such a start, but more is needed to dissuade players from deathmatching at first sight and pull it back in line with the core of the mod.