The PvP Discussion Thread

[Dustfallen 2]

Seems to me the real issue here is that you are looking for a PVZ game. That isn't what DayZ is about. It's a simulation about what the world would be like after the zombie apocolypse.

I think this mod does an excellent job of exactly what it wanted to do. Why should there be repercussions for murdering someone else in the mod? That guy who shot you in the forest, exactly how would anyone else in the world know that happened?

I kind of feel the whole bandit skin is already bad enough, honestly. I play like everything or person I meet is a danger to me. I barely run 1000 yards without going prone or crouching and checking my surroundings.

My biggest ill feeling from the game came last night when I lost my rifle and pack when I swam across a river. Hours of setup lost, and had to restart as I was planning to eat on the other side, so had to respawn as there was nothing nearby.

This isn't a standard First person shooter, and you can't just assume you can run around safely. You have to give your surroundings the attention you would if you were really in this kind of situation.

The wilderness is huge, and the servers are small. It's quite easy to avoid the other few players and survive if you play it smart and safe.

[Viktor_Berg 0]

I've played for almost a week now. I died at least 10 times now, and only TWO cases were to hostile players, when me and my group got too careless.

It is entirely possible to avoid unwanted PvP. I agree that the scale of random murdering is off the scale, but if you don't want to be a part of it, it is ENTIRELY avoidable.

[Freyar 8]

As for providing solutions for balance' date=' well, in a game, that's the easy part. Let's start by having murders increase "Rage", and greater rage attracting zombies at larger distances. Then let's do something about the loot spawns and how ridiculously easy it is to get suited up for the next round of deathmatch.

It doesn't diminsh PK'ers because, hey let's face it, they don't care about Zerbies anyways, and it only adds more zombie content for everyone else in this, y'know, zombie survival game.

[/quote']

You don't hunt or shoot players much do you? Zombies are very much a concern, especially in confined cities.

Why should zombies be the balancing force here? Even then, a lot of decent players get hit with negative humanity just for defending themselves at this point. Maybe later there will be better detection, but I took a bullet today trying to be friendly (Play the opposite role attempt as suggested by another player), only I didn't get a chance to retaliate. Distance was a limiting factor, and even then I wouldn't have had enough time to go after the guy that shot at me anyway.

I went from 2500 humanity (wipe reset it), I'm now floating dangerously near zero simply because I was protecting myself and my group. Forget the whole PvP thing, this would impact players who try to "behave".

1) Doesn't restrict PVP or pass judgement only consequence - you're free to kill whom ever you want however many times. But with every passing kill the consequence is your actions will make you more present in the eyes of the horde.

What exactly makes one player that's been around guns, medical supplies, car parts and whatnot more "desirable" to zombies than another? It does pass judgement simply because "You shoot human, you therefore are penalized for doing so" despite the circumstances.

2) Helps reduce city camping - zombies roam cities, the more easily they are alerted to a bandits presence, the less they can simply sit on loot spawns all day for gear without attracting zombies.

Audio needs to be redone I think. As it is rifles don't attract enough attention. (Hell, imagine if a rifle attracted half a city?) Does it impact PvE players, sure.. but it would end up needing to pull up a bit closer which increases risk of detection between players.

3) Increases zombie content - with zombies playing a more active role in both the PK'er gameplay (more targets to shoot at, that's what they want?) and survival gameplay (alerted hordes indicate possible PKer nearby) the whole mod receives a much-needed injection of more zombie goodness.

The zombies are dumb. There, I said it. They're moronic. Even if they were more prone to being set into an alert stage, they're still pretty ineffective, despite dangerous. More in cities, changing when damage applies (IE: before the animation plays as suggested in another thread), and other ideas would work better. If the zombies weren't dumb they'd be more desirable targets, especially if there were something worthwhile on them beyond just an empty tin can.

The whole "Rage" system is pretty gamey. I don't see why two different playstyles need to be interpreted by zombies differently. You're meat, the guy shooting at you is meat, only you're standing in front of me shooting in front of my face at the guy shooting you two blocks down.

A deterrent would be more preferable to a punishment. Something that would make the act more difficult rather than punishing after.

[Clockbike 1]

If there was no pvp, this would be just another boring shooter. My fear and tension always comes from other players. The fact that the supplies they find was taken from zombie infested locations just adds to my enjoyment. The concern about losing all your stuff while hiking through the woods for hours is part of the ambiance of this game.

[ThatGuy (DayZ) 47]

Hate to bust your carebear heart' date=' but there's ALOT of people and organizations playing that are only playing to play as if it was a true lawless survival, trust no one, shoot on site, end of the world, never produced before game. Arma II as a game has always been about tactics, avoidance, fire control, UNPREDICTABLE SCENARIOS. Your assessment of the situation is correct and really does not need to be changed.

[/quote']

Then They need to Stop With the Zombie bit

Just stop it, it's a lie, as bad of a lie as calling this a furry fuzzy petting-zoo bunnies mod because it has some rabbits and wildlife running about.

Change the name to Wild Wild Chernarus, tear down the site and rebuild it so it doesn't misconstrue what's going on here, and POOF you'll have no more complaints. Mostly because there'll be no more players, but hey, no more complaints!

The only thing that ever gave credence to this mod was the lure of zombie apocalypse, all the zombie lore fans which has been a huge attraction and even more so with the latest games/movies/series floating about. No problem, we'll go elsewhere, but as long as the game is advertised as such expect there to be incorrect assessment of the goal of this "experiment".

I'm sorry but this needs to be addressed:

If you think that when Romero came up with his film portrayal of "zombies," which generally shapes our contemporary outlook on zombies and "zombie lore", that he never considered the social implications of such an outbreak then you're really not a "zombie lore" fan...

This is not a zombie hunt, with a bunch of players going around shooting zombies recklessly, this is survival. If you don't like it I'm sorry, I wish others like you could enjoy the mod as much as I do, but don't you DARE come up in here frothing at the mouth ordering the dev team to change their website, mod description, and mod because it doesn't fit with YOUR ideal zombie universe.

[Jamtots 0]

That's called Survival. You're playing the game wrong and going into it with the wrong mindset. The PVP system is perfectly fine, I especially LOVE the Bandit skin feature, that was a great idea.

Anyway, everywhere you go is dangerous. That's the point of the mod. Sounds like you're running around a lot and not watching your six. You should be on CONSTANT lookout for Zeds and other Survivors. If you see anyone, get your ass down and prepare to defend yourself, be cautious.

[dunnobe 3]

Lower the amount of CZ550 please, will solve a lot of problems in chernogorsk.

[Matej (DayZ) 71]

been alive for 8 days and it is interesting how my personality changed , from total friendly guy who help everyone to scared guy with his precious m4a3 cco trying to avoid contact with people , or shooting them for medicine and ammo

[MR DELICIOUS 297]

So much whining all over the forums.

I hear people saying "is anyone friendly in the elektro power plant?" over global, get raped, and then complain that nobody helps each other any more.

Seriously, 90% of players can be found in either NW airfield, Chernogorsk or Elektro, and they are PvP death match hell holes. As soon as you enter them, you should understand that you've already thrown your life away. If you want to do some PVZ, go north to one of the border towns, or to ANY town. Chances are you'll be undisturbed for hours.

It's baffling to me how people are crying about the death match. You are in a place that has the best supplies in the game and is accessible to all new starting players. It is going to be crazily dangerous. If you need meds, run to hospital, breach and get out as quick as possible. The endless retard train of whining people who have died in the cities is driving me crazy.

And guess what, it's not a surprise you died on the roof of Elektro fire station. Nobody is surprised.

[swayzesghost 14]

Predictable, unhelpful, judgmental forum responses. Everything boils down to "I'm playing wrong" or "that's how the game is" or "this isn't the game I want"

No, just no, people. This is an alpha and it's currently awful. Exploration is discouraged and antisocial behavior is encouraged. It can be better than this. This mod won't survive with all the random murdering.

[saz 3]

While the PvP is what makes this game great, there are some people who just do PvP to ruin for others. For hours on the FR2 server a guy [GRU]Skamska or something like that sat somewhere in Cherno and shot people to later only brag about his low humanity level (note: he never looted a single body). That is the thing that bugs me in this game. Not the PvP itself but the people who just are douchebags.

[singularity (DayZ) 3]

Well, congratulations Swayze. You're disagreeing with everyone here and telling them that the majority opinion is wrong and your carebear approach is the only correct way. You're ignoring arguments you don't agree with, constructing strawmen, and performing ad homium attacks like this one.

If you don't think the mod will survive, jump ship.

[Overbeck (DayZ) 0]

For hours on the FR2 server a guy [GRU]Skamska or something like that sat somewhere in Cherno and shot people to later only brag about his low humanity level

Didn't some one kill him and his mate and then they came back with military within 30mins to do it all again?

[saz 3]

For hours on the FR2 server a guy [GRU]Skamska or something like that sat somewhere in Cherno and shot people to later only brag about his low humanity level

Didn't some one kill him and his mate and then they came back with military within 30mins to do it all again?

Yes Jamie and his friend i think it was that killed him. He supposedly had full military gear with Machineguns, snipers and lots of ammo. Then 30 minutes later he comes back to the same spot and starts doing it again with the same gear. Jamie supposedly shot him again several times withouth him dying only to get killed by him.

[Lordgore 0]

Gentlemen Welcome to butthurt general. Seriously though if you don't want some bandits to push your shit in find some friends and don't be antisocial yourself. Such is life in the zone.

[swayzesghost 14]

You know, I bought this game to get away from the 4chan crowd, but it looks like that's who plays it now.

[tajin 17]

You know' date=' I bought this game to get away from the 4chan crowd, but it looks like that's who plays it now.

[/quote']

Worry not. If this mod doesnt work out for you, you can still give regular arma2 (preferably coop with ACE2 mod) a shot. You wouldn't believe how awesome that can be. :cool: (and its certainly not something the 4chan crowd would enjoy much)

[swayzesghost 14]

Worry not. If this mod doesnt work out for you' date=' you can still give regular arma2 (preferably coop with ACE2 mod) a shot. You wouldn't believe how awesome that can be. :cool: (and its certainly not something the 4chan crowd would enjoy much)

[/quote']

I don't really want to play ARMA at all though. I bought this for the zombie survival. Currently, they're not really a focus of the game at all, and the hilarious zigzag running and warping through closed doors kind of ruins the experience of playing with them.

[tajin 17]

I don't really want to play ARMA at all though. I bought this for the zombie survival.

Well... thats your choice then. I can only say you're missing alot.

[Dustfallen 2]

I have to ask.. why do you implicitly trust people not to shoot you? It's likely to happen' date=' so why do you ever expose yourself for that option? DC will help this a bit (as I've tried to be nice, but it's certainly bit me in the ass), but in the long run, people are too chaotic to trust unless I know them out-of-game enough.

[/quote']

Because I play the game like a survival simulation, and not a deathmatch. Beyond psychopaths or anarchists, you're likely to get the same response from anyone: very few people would react in a crisis by shooting or expecting to be shot at first-sight. That's human nature, I'm a human, and when I play simulations, I try to play faithfully, realistically, naturally. (catch me at non-sims though, like Quake or Battlefield, and I'll use almost every trick in the book, real or not)

I've only been pk'd maybe 3 or 4 times, all of them preventable (I saw them first), but I approached them and began conversation knowing very well I could be shot, so how do I put this?

To me, achieving that gritty survival experience, knowing it's just me and some guy I met and here we are entering a town of zombies with no one to get our backs but each other, to me that's worth more than "winning" a thousand times by "HA I SNIPORZ U WIF GUN". I get a sheer high out of the human capability to work cooperatively and effectively in a dire situation given little prior experience (because I know it's as close as I'll ever get to the real thing, in a real situation this is probably what most humans would have to do). When I pick that zombie off from behind my buddy's back and I know he's doing the same for me... it's exhilarating, and of course that feeling of good teamwork can't be had without the potential for bad teamwork and deliquent behaviour, but at the moment neither can it be had with a majority playerbase being the latter. A better balance needs to be found.

It must be sheer masochism I continued this behaviour even knowing deathmatching was on the rise, so that's telling that the game as played by PK'ers is worthless to me; absolutely not worth playing if the only experience I can get is that of killing people and watching out for killers instead of my primary goal being about dealing with zombies in, y'know, the zombie apocalypse.

I've played enough ARMA and FPS that I could adjust tactics and hunt down most any PK'er on the server. But I'm not in desperate need of validation that unless I'm ruining someone else's experience I'm not having fun. I don't find value in mindless/metagame things like spawn camping, or base raping, or gate-camping, or scamming, or bunny-hopping in a milsim, or alt-f4ing ... etc... or PK-ing in a survival sim.

I'll PK all day gladly in Project Reality, but I came here to play the game as it was presented to me and many others: as a zombie survival mod. When I found out that playing the game as anything other than a deathmatch will eventually prevent you from enjoying it as anything else... well simply, I'd rather not play that game.

I've stopped playing for now, I'm not sure if I'll continue. So far I've had rather good luck finding people to co-operate with, but that doesn't matter: watching side-chat I know I can't continue to play like this unless I play completely alone or the gameplay is adjusted so that it again becomes about zombie apocalypse and not a haven for deathmatchers and griefers of those still misled.

Interesting read, but something needs to be pointed out here. I think this mod is a lot closer to the way things would actually be than you seem to believe.

Without law enforcement or accountability for actions, it's been proven time and again that plenty of humans are not benign in nature. Just look through some news footage of riots, etc.

I whole heartedly believe that there would be people exactly like this if such a zombie apocalypse were to actually occur. It's not so much about playing deathmatch, it's that there are plenty of people who would happily survive taking from others. Shooting others for fun? I can see that as well when you have no accountability for your actions, other than being shot yourself.

That's what the beauty of this mod really is, that it is capturing things so well. People are acting exactly as someone probably would in the same situation. Not saying that the people doing it in the game are the same ones that would do it in the actual situation, but someone would.

You have to take it into account, and truly gauge your decision to enter a city, or to make your presence known to someone you see in the forest. And these would be the same considerations you would need to make if you were truly in this situation as well.

[swayzesghost 14]

Not into it, never been into the mil sim stuff. Not a big fan of moving slowly. Really not a big fan of moving slowly combined with being murdered, hence the thread.

[Bandit (DayZ) 3]

Not into it' date=' never been into the mil sim stuff. Not a big fan of moving slowly. Really not a big fan of moving slowly combined with being murdered, hence the thread.

[/quote']

Thats the great thing about arma. It either teaches you patience or you quit. Theres very little instant gratification, and for the most part those that stick around are mostly mature, older and more experienced in the things this game engine asks of its players.

This is a milsim engine if you forgot, people use this game for training theyve learned irl. Possibly dead island or some other "open world" arcade styled game can keep you interested.

[singularity (DayZ) 3]

Holy crap, seriously? You're not into mil sim, but you bought one of the few peices of software on the market that's designed to be as milsim as possible from a combined arms standpoint? That's like going to tim hortons if you hate coffee and doughnuts.

[swayzesghost 14]

Not into it' date=' never been into the mil sim stuff. Not a big fan of moving slowly. Really not a big fan of moving slowly combined with being murdered, hence the thread.

[/quote']

Thats the great thing about arma. It either teaches you patience or you quit. Theres very little instant gratification, and for the most part those that stick around are mostly mature, older and more experienced in the things this game engine asks of its players.

This is a milsim engine if you forgot, people use this game for training theyve learned irl. Possibly dead island or some other "open world" arcade styled game can keep you interested.

Maturity isn't currently what we're seeing from the player base. We're seeing antisocial PKing and a "deal with it" attitude on the forums, the unconstructive signature style of teenage kids.

Dead Island, laughable. Please avoid being insulting. It's pretty close-minded and ignorant to think people can't enjoy different genres from what they typically engage in. I doubt there's anyone playing this mod that has as much outright FPS experience as me. I can adapt.

Once again the thread isn't about me being bad at movement or anything. I'm not. It's about the fact that there are no repercussions for antisocial behavior. Please stay on target. I know it's hard for some of you to believe that a person with a contrary opinion could also be a skilled player, but you've got to think outside the box a little.

[aviatormoser 0]

Repercussions? Hmmm....

I say bandits should be visible on the map. If survivors have to live in fear, then so should the bandits. And then we should have an option of capturing them and hanging them.

Actually:

I was thinking of this.

For each murder, a marked location on the map and/or message displaying the location of the murder should be implemented. This would make it really interesting.

Then posse's can form to track down the bandit. This would be pretty fun.