The PvP Discussion Thread

[bodycount 83]

Turkey' date=' have you ever survived in a real zombie apocalypse?

[/quote']

Let me go ahead an answer that with a big 10-4 good buddy. I took part in a top secret government mission called "Operation Beanbag" where we had to wipe out a mutated strain of the African Baffling Illness. It was not a pretty Op let me tell you son.

http://www.dailytech.com/Baffling+Illness+Strikes+Africa+Turns+Children+Into+Mindless+Zombies/article24276.htm

You prefer the love of other men' date=' we get it, its cool... you enjoy their company, even in large groups, the bigger the better right? ;) You can keep your man love all you want, I'll be killing you pretty pretty princess party fruitcakes all day.

[/quote']

I usually try and avoid the balls touching. Nothing wrong with giving or getting the occasional reach around is there? Just because I enjoy a few traps every now and again is no reason to discriminate is it? Nohomo.

[bacon55 (DayZ) 2]

Turkey' date=' have you ever survived in a real zombie apocalypse?

[/quote']

Let me go ahead an answer that with a big 10-4 good buddy. I took part in a top secret government mission called "Operation Beanbag" where we had to wipe out a mutated strain of the African Baffling Illness. It was not a pretty Op let me tell you son.

http://www.dailytech.com/Baffling+Illness+Strikes+Africa+Turns+Children+Into+Mindless+Zombies/article24276.htm

You prefer the love of other men' date=' we get it, its cool... you enjoy their company, even in large groups, the bigger the better right? ;) You can keep your man love all you want, I'll be killing you pretty pretty princess party fruitcakes all day.

[/quote']

I usually try and avoid the balls touching. Nothing wrong with giving or getting the occasional reach around is there? Just because I enjoy a few traps every now and again is no reason to discriminate is it? Nohomo.

There's totally nothing gay about sucking another guy off.

I read that on /fit/. Those dudes are straight as shit.

[Panzerfaust (DayZ) 5]

Griff? Griff! The loonies are acting up again!

[swayzesghost 14]

I was excited about this mod a few days ago, and now I'm just weary...Exploration is completely discouraged because you can't go anywhere interesting without getting murdered. You can't look for supplies without getting murdered. You can't clear zombies without being murdered, and you can't run through the woods, away from anything, without being murdered.

My solution? Since PKs invariably think they are the best players, let them test their skill in a game where one hit from anything kills them. One makarov bullet, one zombie hit, one fall. That was PKs still maintain the ability to murder anyone with the element of surprise, tactical planning, etc...They can still have skill. But since they think they're so good at the game, give them a real challenge.

Getting shot in the back randomly just isn't fun.

[korten 2]

You know how you avoid getting shot in the back randomly, you constantly assess your surroundings and don't run in the open. Before you go near a town, zoom in and see if any zeds have spawned. When approaching anywhere interesting look for areas where someone could be lurking.

It's really not that hard.

[swayzesghost 14]

You know how you avoid getting shot in the back randomly' date=' you constantly assess your surroundings and don't run in the open. Before you go near a town, zoom in and see if any zeds have spawned. When approaching anywhere interesting look for areas where someone could be lurking.

It's really not that hard.

[/quote']

I got shot in the back the last time running through a forest under complete darkness. The problem isn't my skill as a player, the problem is that the game currently encourages antisocial gameplay. This mod can get a lot better. There's no reason people can't enjoy their PKing while I enjoy my adventuring. In a real "zombie apocalypse" anyone who murdered or robbed would be rounded up and killed FIRST. There would be consequences. I just want the same type of consequences for behavior here.

Will be the difference between this mod having thousands of players and hundreds.

[frostiken 0]

Except it's so much worse than a death match for those who aren't initiated yet. The second I realized what it was I stopped playing. I'm not being the collector for these assholes to get gear. Let them figure it out when those of us who wanted PvP to be just a PART of the game as opposed to the whole thing are all gone. Which will NOT be long. I can't imagine people blowing more than 20 or so hours with this rinse repeat ganking till they say fuck it.

+1.

I'm done playing specifically because of that.

In a real-life situation, people are going to turn into animals. However, the incidents that followed Katrina or any other massive disaster were minor compared to the number of people involved.

There's also the mental aspect that isn't considered. A lot of people carry guns and wave guns around (street hoods mugging someone) but don't have the guts to pull the trigger. Gamers are conditioned to feel nothing when killing people in a game, so it's no problem to simply massacre people by the truckload. So the experiment is already invalid.

Thus why I said to force things on players who are murderers to reflect a diminished mental state.

[korten 2]

You know how you avoid getting shot in the back randomly' date=' you constantly assess your surroundings and don't run in the open. Before you go near a town, zoom in and see if any zeds have spawned. When approaching anywhere interesting look for areas where someone could be lurking.

It's really not that hard.

[/quote']

I got shot in the back the last time running through a forest under complete darkness. The problem isn't my skill as a player, the problem is that the game currently encourages antisocial gameplay. This mod can get a lot better. There's no reason people can't enjoy their PKing while I enjoy my adventuring. In a real "zombie apocalypse" anyone who murdered or robbed would be rounded up and killed FIRST. There would be consequences. I just want the same type of consequences for behavior here.

Will be the difference between this mod having thousands of players and hundreds.

Then I think you got a bad case of "wrong place at the wrong time" Either that or you drew a bandits attention somehow (flares, gunfire etc.).

These threads are pretty pointless anyways, there's more pressing things to work on than bandits at the moment.

[bondematt 0]

Then start a Sheriff group or something. Problem is finding those who are truly out there PKing and identifying him, as the bandito skin means nothing when you can get it from defending yourself from two noobies who started shooting.

[swayzesghost 14]

Your assumptions aren't constructive. No, I didn't draw attention. "wrong place wrong time" still highlights exactly the problem with the game, the fact that there's zero repercussions to just murdering a random person, shooting them in the back when they weren't even are of you at that.

Bandits/pvp are pretty much the only important issue in this game. If the rampant murdering isn't resolved then I and many others will quit pretty quickly. Right now the game incentivizes sociopathic behavior. No game like that has ever survived.

[bacon55 (DayZ) 2]

Except it's so much worse than a death match for those who aren't initiated yet. The second I realized what it was I stopped playing. I'm not being the collector for these assholes to get gear. Let them figure it out when those of us who wanted PvP to be just a PART of the game as opposed to the whole thing are all gone. Which will NOT be long. I can't imagine people blowing more than 20 or so hours with this rinse repeat ganking till they say fuck it.

+1.

I'm done playing specifically because of that.

In a real-life situation' date=' people are going to turn into animals. However, the incidents that followed Katrina or any other massive disaster were minor compared to the number of people involved.

There's also the mental aspect that isn't considered. A lot of people carry guns and wave guns around (street hoods mugging someone) but don't have the guts to pull the trigger. Gamers are conditioned to feel nothing when killing people in a game, so it's no problem to simply massacre people by the truckload. So the experiment is already invalid.

Thus why I said to force things on players who are murderers to reflect a diminished mental state.

[/quote']

Until people get to the point where they think they're dying immediately the vast majority retain what we call "humanity", I mean literally "I'm going to drown/burn" etc, right now. We've got plenty of evidence for this.

This mod, this game, absolutely cannot simulate any of that, and it shouldn't try to get close. What basically has to be done is a massively unrealistic level of psychotic/suicidal behaviour is inherent because it's a game, and you build around that, trying to make it as hardcore as possible while still being playable.

What the system will look like will take time, it'll be multifaceted no question. Pretending there's no problem is just silly and these greifer types are going to utterly ruin their own fun as well if they got their way.

The game will have to force something that's approachable and not completely cuthroat. No one wants to play poker for no money with some asshole who always goes all in. That's essentially what we're looking at. There's basically no reason not to go all in.

[Panzerfaust (DayZ) 5]

Except it's so much worse than a death match for those who aren't initiated yet. The second I realized what it was I stopped playing. I'm not being the collector for these assholes to get gear. Let them figure it out when those of us who wanted PvP to be just a PART of the game as opposed to the whole thing are all gone. Which will NOT be long. I can't imagine people blowing more than 20 or so hours with this rinse repeat ganking till they say fuck it.

+1.

I'm done playing specifically because of that.

In a real-life situation' date=' people are going to turn into animals. However, the incidents that followed Katrina or any other massive disaster were minor compared to the number of people involved.

There's also the mental aspect that isn't considered. A lot of people carry guns and wave guns around (street hoods mugging someone) but don't have the guts to pull the trigger. Gamers are conditioned to feel nothing when killing people in a game, so it's no problem to simply massacre people by the truckload. So the experiment is already invalid.

Thus why I said to force things on players who are murderers to reflect a diminished mental state.

[/quote']

You're right about Katrina. If the entire city had started looting and pillaging things would have been completely out of control. Nevertheless, I'm merely using that example to show that in certain situations people will act absolutely vicious. I don't think it's a far stretch of the imagination to picture something somewhat like what's going on in this mod right now (probably with less military equipment being thrown around, though) happening in the real world if any of this stuff actually happened. A zombie apocalypse would be several orders of magnitude more dangerous and certainly more psychologically jarring, and the ratio of people involved in that kind of behavior would most likely go way, way up.

[swayzesghost 14]

The game will have to force something that's approachable and not completely cuthroat. No one wants to play poker for no money with some asshole who always goes all in. That's essentially what we're looking at. There's basically no reason not to go all in.

My experiences of the past few days have left me wanting to just find people in the game and murder them randomly now to exercise my frustration. Can't build much of a community around that. I bought ARMA to play this game, like many other people, because I watched videos of the great teamwork/cooperation possible in this mod. I've experienced very little of that so far. Mostly murdering.

[frostiken 0]

You're also incorrect about something else... do you really think anyone who's murdered anyone in this game did it for survival? What, were they starving to death so they killed a bunch of guys for their beans?

There's absolutely no part of the 'survival' aspect that really requires you to kill people to survive in this game, besides 'kill or be killed'. Food is infinite, water is infinite, bullets are infinite.

Literally none.

[bacon55 (DayZ) 2]

You're also incorrect about something else... do you really think anyone who's murdered anyone in this game did it for survival? What' date=' were they starving to death so they killed a bunch of guys for their beans?

There's absolutely no part of the 'survival' aspect that really requires you to kill people to survive in this game, besides 'kill or be killed'. Food is infinite, water is infinite, bullets are infinite.

Literally none.

[/quote']

Hence my comment regarding the "survival" justification making the whole griefing issue so much more vomit worthy.

At least in other games it could be easily dismissed. It still can be in this one, both for the reason you mention and the fact that the vast majority of these people, as much as they like to mentally masturbate to the idea in their heads, wouldn't just go around murdering everyone they saw.

It's griefing, just in a different shell, and it needs a unique solution to keep this game extremely hardcore, still have PvP, and remove the incentive for the type of nonsense we see now.

[swayzesghost 14]

Another idea I had, that kind of simulates the effect of antisocial behavior in real life--

If you murder or lose humanity in whatever way, you create a "bad luck" field around you effectively. Items that spawn near you are worse. Zombies are more keen to the location of survivors around you.

This would end up with antisocial players being kicked out of their own groups and forced to fly solo..Just like in reality.

[griffinz 2816]

I find the contrary to OP. Random murders forces me in to the wilderness ASAP. I literally have to do a 20 minute dash in the city and run to the hills before my inevitable death.

[bacon55 (DayZ) 2]

I find the contrary to OP. Random murders forces me in to the wilderness ASAP. I literally have to do a 20 minute dash in the city and run to the hills before my inevitable death.

I've found the middle of the woods to be mostly safe as well. Simple because of the huge amount of woods and the limited lines of sight.

You do inevitably have to leave those sheltered areas though, and then what the OP says rings perfectly true.

If your pursuer manages to keep a bead on you in the forest you're probably hooped though. Given the time it takes a lot of these PK'rs to get their weapons - they're anything but impatient.

Best advice if you manage to get away, log off. What type of sane person wants to be running from some guy with an assault rifle for half an hour with a 1/20 chance of survival?

Not me.

However, OFP had a mission kind of like that, but you didn't have the terminator after you, and the chance of survival was 90+% if you did what you were told to do.

[Panzerfaust (DayZ) 5]

Here's a challenge for you two. Start playing the game the way the people you're bashing play it, even if it's just for a day or two.

I've wasted enough time explaining to you why people shoot other people. If you're really too short sighted to see that shooting people goes far beyond infantile griefing then attempting to have a rational debate with you people is an exercise in futility. Try experiencing things from the other side.

I'll post it again in case you didn't read it the first time:

2. Arma 2 is NOT the kind of game that attracts 13 year olds who have one hand in their pants and another on the mouse so they can shoot people. Even if they convince Mommy to buy it for them, they probably won't stick around long (I shouldn't have to explain why. Also, forget one of them figuring out how to install the mod). The vast majority of l33t$n1p3r$ who shoot people for the sake of shooting them fall into that demographic, which statistically probably doesn't even qualify for minority status in this game. The profile of those who shoot others is probably closer to the paranoid guy who (rightfully) distrusts Joe Blow on the internet and anything he says and wants to protect his stuff that he worked to get or, alternately, the person who is interested in grabbing what the other guy has because it's convenient and also has the former benefit mixed in.

Survival comes into the mix because you will eventually make contact with other players, hostile or otherwise, when you're attempting to get more food/water/bullets. It's not like they spawn in completely random areas of the map, they spawn in certain areas which eventually forces people to meet. Some of those people will be hostile, and that's the end of that.

As far as any quick fixes for PVP go: Remember what the devs said. They're adding more consequence to shooting people. Personally, I think the best solution to keep everybody happy is to increase the noise level of long guns by a slight degree and to add zombies that roam around outside of towns (IE in forests and whatnot). That way the playing field is more even, as the majority of PVP encounters that I've seen have been people from a forest edge engaging people in town who can't shoot back because of the zombie problem.

[swayzesghost 14]

I find the contrary to OP. Random murders forces me in to the wilderness ASAP. I literally have to do a 20 minute dash in the city and run to the hills before my inevitable death.

I've found the middle of the woods to be mostly safe as well. Simple because of the huge amount of woods and the limited lines of sight.

You do inevitably have to leave those sheltered areas though' date=' and then what the OP says rings perfectly true.

[/quote']

I registered and made this thread because I got killed in the middle of the woods, at night, by myself, by someone who shot me in the back. I was presenting no threat to them whatsoever.

Seriously, all I can imagine is some giddy 14 year old kid jumping up and down in his chair because he's excited how much he ruined my fun.

I don't want to play video games with people who want to ruin others' fun. In reality, people who commit antisocial behavior are excluded. So we need to make that happen in the game as well.

[griffinz 2816]

That's all part of the simulation skill of surviving. Patience has always gone hand-in-hand with the Arma series...this mod awards that skill well.

That giddy 14 year old was probably a 40-something war veteran and skilled hunter in real life.

[puppetmasterjjk 3]

Is there a specific server or time that people log-in when they get together with these fancy weapons and just constantly blow people away? How do you know what their intentions were or what their weapon was? How did they manage to spot you?

Personally, I have only ever been caught off-guard by another player once. Weeks ago, a hunting rifle sniper was near Chernogorsk and my group was screwing around in the open for some reason. He hit and killed one of our guys with his first shot, then the rest of us escaped using smoke cover and ambushed him later on.

The one time I actually managed to get killed by another player was when I decided to sneak up on a team of two and fire wildly into the air.

I've encountered huge amounts of players. Most of which I avoid, a handful I have teamed up with, some others I help out and then part-ways with, and finally there are three that I have killed.

Perhaps it could be that I just play on the wrong server at the wrong time, and that's why I don't witness these insane "deathmatches" that apparently are all that goes on these days. I suspect, however, that these claims are just gross exaggerations used to try strengthening one side of the argument.

[swayzesghost 14]

That's all part of the simulation skill of surviving. Patience has always gone hand-in-hand with the Arma series...this mod awards that skill well.

That giddy 14 year old was probably a 40-something war veteran and skilled hunter in real life.

I'm just not hearing it. It has nothing to do with simulation skill and everything to do with another player's choice to make an unpunished antisocial decision that's bad for gameplay.

I sincerely doubt war veterans are the guys who concern themselves with PKing in this game.

[bacon55 (DayZ) 2]

That's all part of the simulation skill of surviving. Patience has always gone hand-in-hand with the Arma series...this mod awards that skill well.

That giddy 14 year old was probably a 40-something war veteran and skilled hunter in real life.

Except in Arma your targets usually can, and do, actively fight back.

This is not a survival simulation. It's a human social simulator with realistic weaponry.

Absolutely nothing on here can be construed as representing what would happen in reality. That doesn't make sense.

I mean look at even the most realistic Arma battles compared to what would happen in real life.

Nothing close.

The only time it is close is when it's done in a completely controlled environment with the human players instructed deliberately to follow realistic procedures based on scientific study.

And ya I know my fair share of recentwar vets from WWIIOL, they weren't the lone wolfing types for the most part...

[Panzerfaust (DayZ) 5]

Perhaps it could be that I just play on the wrong server at the wrong time' date=' and that's why I don't witness these insane "deathmatches" that apparently are all that goes on these days. I suspect, however, that these claims are just gross exaggerations used to try strengthening one side of the argument.

[/quote']

This.