Stable Update 1.12

[helpthedeadwalk 179]

4 hours ago, Dwardo Rodregez said:

Ah ok missed that one line lol. 

Would be nice to know why its so difficult to fix and why not just remove them? It is such a large part of the game yet it is ignored "aside from the one line posted above in more than a year"... Ignoring the fact just loses credibility all round. 

I await the next pumping out of a DLC to grab more funds that will be wasted and we still end up with a game that has Major flaws that are too silly to talk about. 

Being a software developer for a long time, my understanding is that the vehicle engine code/physics were rewritten to the current server-basedmodel, by a different team, years ago. It sounds like it needs to be rewritten/optimized in the server or a completely new implementation done for the client. Everything is work and there is a small team with many priorities.

 

You're awaiting the next DLC?! Don't hold your breath. There is no indication of any new DLC. The only DLC (Livonia) came out over a year ago.

 

[Tonyeh 444]

11 hours ago, Derleth said:

1.12 has been live a while now and people have been able to get a feel for what the various changes have brought, here is some feedback I have gathered from players on my servers about the infected dropping aggro when players fall unconscious:

• When a group of players is involved this is how it should be. Their first target drops - but someone else is on their "shit list" - so they go "kill YOU!!!" and run for that guy instead. The fallen player has a chance to wake up and crawl to safety to patch up while the others deal with the infected. It has added a fun dynamic to the gameplay.
• In PVP situations it is a similar feeling - if you get shot and drop unconscious you won't immediately be finished off by enraged infected, instead your would be killer has to deal with them first and you have a slight chance to survive despite everything. I've had some fun situations due to this.
• When solo it sucks. You get rushed by a horde and they beat you senseless. Then they just stand there gurgling until you wake up when they aggro again and knock you out again - this goes on until you are killed instead of knocked out. It creates a lot of frustration. Everyone I have talked to would prefer that the infected just finish them off right away... Either that or make the unconsciousness last longer so the infected have time to wander off - so they won't immediately attack again - or make it possible to "play" dead when you wake up - let the player decide when to actually start moving. This would also be useful in pvp situations

Other than that, whatever happened with infected eating the dead? I know it was planned and even briefly implemented in some 0.5X experimental build, but never seen since then

 

I think what happened was that the zombies of DayZ became "infected" people and not flesh eating corpses. So, the eating aspect sort of got dropped.

As to them losing interest in a player when they go unconscious, I am in two minds about it. A. It's not a death sentence if the player gets into a tangle with the infected...and B. It's not a death sentence if the player gets into a tangle with the infected.

Meaning that depending on the situation, not being killed by the infected if they've ganged up on you is a relief. But, also, why wouldn't (shouldn't) they kill you?

I'll admit that the "lose interest" aspect helped me out of a really bad situation once and I was glad. I got boxed in on a tower by three of them and they buggered off when I went unconscious. When I came too, I was able to gun them down. But something about it also makes me think that it's a bit of a cheap cop out too.

As to its impact on solo play (I always play like this) you have enough time to gather your wits and fend them off when you come to. I find that the infected tend to wander off pretty quickly. But maybe a "get up" button would help, instead of automatically having your toon come round and rise to their feet.

[DefectiveWater 491]

1 hour ago, Tonyeh said:

But, also, why wouldn't (shouldn't) they kill you?

I take this as they are too dumb to realize that you are uncon. If you think they are too dumb for that, then it all makes sense lol.

I'm still not liking the zed combat. Their hits are too weak and they tank too much, and blocking isn't reliable enough to make it really worthwhile + the bleeding is extremely annoying because blocking is meh.
The only 2 reliable ways of taking them out are: Shooting with silenced pistols or having enough stamina to do at least 3 heavy attacks.

Overall melee combat needs an overhaul so that holding block for 30 seconds won't stop every normal knife hit... Blocking should stop punches with fists, but to counter a knife attack you either should need to dodge or time the block just right so that you can parry it.
Parrying should be a part of melee combat, and it would be useful for against zeds.

Wait for a zed to attack you, block the attack at the right time causes the zed attack to not go through and gives you time to strike a better hit on them (literally make it like 1.5-2x damage, who cares lol).

Same or similar concept should be applied to player vs player combat, so that it's no longer a Stamina fight where both of you are blocking until you get enough stamina to strike a strong hit that goes through blocks.

Edited May 5, 2021 by DefectiveWater

[Tonyeh 444]

I've been ok with it so far, but it does need some refinement. But I am usually flinging a silenced 9mm into their heads when there's more than one. And if I can do a sneaky backstab I will. But this is down to the fact that they nerfed things like the splitting axe. I'm all for tougher infected and many more of them, but not at the expense of weapon efficacy.

But the new combat with the infected hasn't really impacted me that much. At least with the current toon I'm running with anyway, in which I have really only had to alter my approach very slightly. In fact, in a number of ways they are actually easier to deal with now.

That opinion might change when I run out of 9mm. 😆

[Riddick_2K 121]

Now even when you are crouched they can see you even from a distance and if you try to get closer, even from the back and crouched, they hear you immediately.
What happened to the silent back attack?
What's the point of being able to kill them with a single blow to the back if you can't even get close to crouching?
Then they always give you damage and bleeding ... and not even an ax is of any use ... but what kind of infected are these? Cyborg?
The new update of the fighting with the infected is absurd, it was 1000 times better before.
This last one is such a crap 😞

P.S.
To me they no longer grow up plants ...

[Derleth 1352]

3 hours ago, Riddick_2K said:

Now even when you are crouched they can see you even from a distance and if you try to get closer, even from the back and crouched, they hear you immediately.
What happened to the silent back attack?
What's the point of being able to kill them with a single blow to the back if you can't even get close to crouching?
Then they always give you damage and bleeding ... and not even an ax is of any use ... but what kind of infected are these? Cyborg?
The new update of the fighting with the infected is absurd, it was 1000 times better before.
This last one is such a crap 😞

P.S.
To me they no longer grow up plants ...

Don't "crouch run" that makes three times as much noise as crouch walking - it is slow and annoying, but it was always like that. Also type of shoes and ground makes a difference, and if you walk through a bush making even more noise they'll hear that too...

As far as I can see nothing has changed with their visual senses, if they are alerted (e.g. by hearing you crouch run) they will see you even if crouched. So, to avoid detection you need to move slowly and keep eyes on where they are looking and sneak by when they have their backs turned. Works pretty well now actually, my main gripe is with how they have been made to tank head melee trauma - with that modifier reduced (I made a mod for that) it all feels so much better. Precision with heavy attacks pays off, wildly swinging is generally bad.

I also would like to see blocking improved, so you can block zombies' heavy attacks by timing it right, or that it at least reduces damage and prevents bleeding. (If it can block someone slashing me with a kitchen knife it should logically be able to block filthy infected fingernails...)

8 hours ago, DefectiveWater said:

Overall melee combat needs an overhaul so that holding block for 30 seconds won't stop every normal knife hit...

I thought this was supposed to be changed recently? Anyway one way of doing it would be to make the block simply be cancelled after a couple of seconds so you'd need to release the button and "refresh" to block again. That would make it a little more dependent on proper timing.

[helpthedeadwalk 179]

10 hours ago, Riddick_2K said:

Now even when you are crouched they can see you even from a distance and if you try to get closer, even from the back and crouched, they hear you immediately.
What happened to the silent back attack?
What's the point of being able to kill them with a single blow to the back if you can't even get close to crouching?
Then they always give you damage and bleeding ... and not even an ax is of any use ... but what kind of infected are these? Cyborg?
The new update of the fighting with the infected is absurd, it was 1000 times better before.
This last one is such a crap 😞

P.S.
To me they no longer grow up plants ...

i've found that you can sneak up very slowly or even sprint, but you have to get there before they turn around. Then its 5-6 hacks with an ax when it used to be 3. I'd say 50/50 you get cut now. Rags + blood bags are of great value! I'm very annoyed having to get used to it, but I think its a good change. I took a suppressed shot at one up near the ski hill and 4 swarmed me out of nowhere. I fought 2, went uncon and retreated into a shed and had to punch the last one.  Damn, I haven't had that much zombie trouble since the first time I played!

[helpthedeadwalk 179]

Is it jus me or is everyone crashing on exit with the latest patch?

[DefectiveWater 491]

36 minutes ago, helpthedeadwalk said:

Damn, I haven't had that much zombie trouble since the first time I played!

Yeah, I agree. Zeds needed a refresh, the playerbase needs getting used to the new zeds (and some tweaks here and there, maybe).

[radamantyz 81]

Please reverse the changes in the zombies or make sense of using heavy mele weapons, it is impossible for a zombie not to die with so many ax blows to the head, they are tanks, I would have preferred that they increase the damage x2 and finally open doors  To this, it feels very false and being more sensitive than before, right away you have 3 zombies on you that you cannot face and you only aspire to lock yourself in buildings if you do not have a silenced weapon, please fix the  mele against zombies

[TheSzepy 34]

so, instead of making the infected a proper threat(doors opening/smashing, jumping on things so you’re not safe on a 0,5M obstacle etc..), they literally chosed the most lazy, useless and retarded way possible, aka making them a tanks which cannot be stealth-killed anymore without weapon+silencer(because why reward player for skill), i’m not even talking about ammo values "changes"(because 5.56 fired from literally the same barrel length is somehow more powerful, and you would have though that studio which make military themed-accurate? games for 20 years would know something about ammo, energy, velocity etc.), you’re really showing yourself BI, for 3 years after release you still manage to screw every update somehow... amateurs, there’s not another word for it for which i wont get censored.

Edited May 6, 2021 by TheSzepy

[DefectiveWater 491]

1 hour ago, TheSzepy said:

i’m not even talking about ammo values "changes"(because 5.56 fired from literally the same barrel length is somehow more powerful

What do you mean by this?
AFAIK all guns follow this logic: longer barrel = more damage, automatic = less damage

M4A1 has barrel length of 368mm, Scout has barrel length of 482.5mm.
M4A1 does 96 damage (too much in my opinion), Scout 110 (also too much).
5.56 should never ever one shot, neither should x39. I'm fine if they uncon, I'm not fine with them outright oneshotting.

A lot of early 1.12 exp stats were questionable, but they are much more logical now since then. Scout in-game has only 16(?)% faster bullet velocity or so, if I'm not wrong.

The only thing that is actually missing in this game is probably armor penetration per gun/cartridge, but... that's maybe too much.
And the only thing I currently don't agree is with overall 5.56 and x39 damage numbers, BK18 stats (should be nerfed)

 and SKS range, should be much closer to AKM, it only has like 2.5% faster bullet velocity than AKM IRL.

1 hour ago, TheSzepy said:

instead of making the infected a proper threat(doors opening/smashing, jumping on things so you’re not safe on a 0,5M obstacle etc..),

Maybe someday, it's quite obvious devs want zeds to be a bigger threat and this might only just be the start and a temporary measure until their AI gets better. Although I agree, zeds should be more indepth instead of just raw stats increase.

Edited May 6, 2021 by DefectiveWater

[TheSzepy 34]

2 hours ago, DefectiveWater said:

What do you mean by this?
AFAIK all guns follow this logic: longer barrel = more damage, automatic = less damage

M4A1 has barrel length of 368mm, Scout has barrel length of 482.5mm.
M4A1 does 96 damage (too much in my opinion), Scout 110 (also too much).
5.56 should never ever one shot, neither should x39. I'm fine if they uncon, I'm not fine with them outright oneshotting.

A lot of early 1.12 exp stats were questionable, but they are much more logical now since then. Scout in-game has only 16(?)% faster bullet velocity or so, if I'm not wrong.

 

look at some posts made by gews,mainly in the 1.12 exp thread( https://forums.dayz.com/profile/131293-gews/), i personally write my own configs for all core gameplay loop related stuff(unbelievable how incompetent the devs are) , so i’m not sure what the exact state in vanilla is right now(ammo/dmg/armor mainly), but from what i heard either from friends or read here/reddit etc.. the whole combat itself is way more retarded now

[Kathosky 102]

On 5/5/2021 at 2:07 PM, lynn.zaw said:

• Increased the audible range of assault rifles to 2.5 km
• Increased the audible range of sniper rifles to 3.5 km
• increased the audibility of pistol shots up to 800 meters
• Increased the audibility of SMG and shotgun shots up to 1.4 km
• Tweaked weapon sound curves

Getting better... well I still prefer the old 1.11 sound although I believe I will have to adapt. Now getting into this dynamic here is my feedback:

- Sound range for pistols should be increased to at least the same as SMGs (1.4 km). 800 meters seems too low for every caliber that some of this categories use. In addition SMGs and some pistols use the same calibers, why one is 1400 and other 800 meters?

- Sound range for shotguns should be increased too, I would say they make more noise than 9 millimeter for example, right? I would increase them to at least 2000 meters.

- Suppressors are super quiet now, you cannot hear them pass 100 meters. IMO should be greatly increased. In 1.11 they were not that bad.

- Overall and appart from the previous suggestions I think that instead of weapon category, the sound should range more depending on caliber than category, with some variation for some guns inside each category.

And last but not least: I suggest making possible for the splitting axe to one tap zombies when aiming for the head ONLY when using the power attack. Like discussed in last weeks since it drains stamina it is not easy to abuse it as it was before. Final question: Are fist better than the splitting axe now?

[DefectiveWater 491]

39 minutes ago, TheSzepy said:

look at some posts made by gews,mainly in the 1.12 exp thread( https://forums.dayz.com/profile/131293-gews/), i personally write my own configs for all core gameplay loop related stuff(unbelievable how incompetent the devs are) , so i’m not sure what the exact state in vanilla is right now(ammo/dmg/armor mainly), but from what i heard either from friends or read here/reddit etc.. the whole combat itself is way more retarded now

Those posts are outdated. I used that information too recently to make a few comments, but Gews corrected me. It was wrong of me to use that outdated info, you maybe saw that on reddit.
Anyway, don't use Exp data to make your judgment, take Stable data and then make your judgment.

- I want to warn everyone that my math might be wrong, so take all of this with some grain of salt.

Current Scout has only 17.97(?)% faster bullet velocity compared to the M4.

M4A1 (IRL)
- barrel length: 368 mm / 14.5 in
- bullet velocity: ~2900 ft/s

Scout (IRL)
- barrel length: 482.5mm / 19 in
- bullet velocity (out of a similar barrel IRL): 3028 ft/s

IRL, if internet numbers are correct, that would be a 4.41% increase in bullet velocity, but... game gives a velocity boost to non-automatic rifles for the sake of balance, I assume.
Yes, it's still a bit too high, and I would personally lower that difference between automatic and bolt-action rifles IF we want something more realistic, but IF we want variety and balance, then it's fine as it is now.

If the In-game Scout truly is 17.97% faster than IRL M4A1, then that would make it have a velocity of: 3421.13 ft/s.

Current state of things has some logic behind it, and it follows a simple pattern of: Long barrel = more velocity = more damage, Automatic (that includes semi-auto?) = less velocity = less damage, from what I know.
I like the logic behind it, but I just don't agree with raw damage stats of 5.56 and x39. 5.56 and x39 should NEVER one shot kill a player with no armor (obviously not talking about headshots). At best they should uncon players in a single shot, not kill in a single shot (like the SKS, CR, BK18 and Scout can to distances of up to 200+ to 400 meters). Shock values of 5.56 and x39 are actually good, but raw damage? I don't agree with that. At least make only CR and Scout one shot kill, but remove that ability from BK and SKS.

Shock is maaaybe a bit questionable if you still go uncon from .308 and x54r to the legs (breaking your legs), but I hope that will get tweaked soon too.

Vests (or plate carrier only, idk) got a buff recently, so it's no longer 1 tap to uncon AFAIK.

Sources for IRL numbers:
https://rifleshooter.com/2015/12/223-remington-5-56mm-nato-barrel-length-and-velocity-26-inches-to-6-inches/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M4_carbine
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steyr_Scout
 

Edited May 6, 2021 by DefectiveWater

[helpthedeadwalk 179]

6 hours ago, TheSzepy said:

so, instead of making the infected a proper threat(doors opening/smashing, jumping on things so you’re not safe on a 0,5M obstacle etc..), they literally chosed the most lazy, useless and retarded way possible, aka making them a tanks which cannot be stealth-killed anymore without weapon+silencer(because why reward player for skill),

sneak up behind them, quietly and they are a silent one-hit and dead. There's your skill.

[Kathosky 102]

When killing infected stealthy from behind there is no sound at all. Is that a bug? If I remember right, before this patch there was sound.

[Derleth 1352]

20 hours ago, helpthedeadwalk said:

Is it jus me or is everyone crashing on exit with the latest patch?

Not just you, when I exit the launcher will report a crash. Every single time.

[Derleth 1352]

3 hours ago, Kathosky said:

When killing infected stealthy from behind there is no sound at all. Is that a bug? If I remember right, before this patch there was sound.

It's a bug, so is that they fall backwards into the player. Looks very wonky...

14 hours ago, DefectiveWater said:

Maybe someday, it's quite obvious devs want zeds to be a bigger threat and this might only just be the start and a temporary measure until their AI gets better. Although I agree, zeds should be more indepth instead of just raw stats increase.

It is getting better, but needs some tweaking still. Infected received a "magic helmet" in 1.12 - a 50% damage reduction to melee damage to their heads, which is the reason they're tanking so many blows to their heads right now. If that modifier is removed entirely you'd be able to oneshot them with a long range of melee weapons, so I'd say that is not a good idea. Interesting to note is that in the current stable build melee damage to body or limbs of infected is increased by 20%. The combined effect of this and the magic helmet is that it barely matters where you hit them - wild swinging is nearly as efficient as actually aiming for the head. I have no idea why they would do this.

I made a mod that put the head melee damage modifier on 25% instead, and removed the boost to body hits. The effect is that you can one-tap them with a heavy blow to the head with the largest melee weapons - splitting/fire axe, sledge hammer, pickaxe - and the nailed baseball bat. To me this feels pretty good. Precision and weapon choice matters, wildly swinging is punished.

[Riddick_2K 121]

On 5/6/2021 at 8:37 AM, Derleth said:

Don't "crouch run" that makes three times as much noise as crouch walking - it is slow and annoying, but it was always like that. Also type of shoes and ground makes a difference, and if you walk through a bush making even more noise they'll hear that too...

As far as I can see nothing has changed with their visual senses, if they are alerted (e.g. by hearing you crouch run) they will see you even if crouched. So, to avoid detection you need to move slowly and keep eyes on where they are looking and sneak by when they have their backs turned. Works pretty well now actually, my main gripe is with how they have been made to tank head melee trauma - with that modifier reduced (I made a mod for that) it all feels so much better. Precision with heavy attacks pays off, wildly swinging is generally bad.

 

But really not at all. I have been playing since 1.07 and since I did some practice (maybe from 1.08) I have always run crouched and just turn around and NO ONE sees or hears you. And if I wanted to kill them, I would come from behind them always running crouched and took them from behind, even close enough to other infected ones.
The only difference was the ax which, with updates, was reduced as damage.
But if you ran crouched you always ran away and no one saw you. If by chance you alerted someone, just stop and, remaining crouched, they calmed down
And this until 1.11.
Now, with 1.12, they hear you right away and see you from a distance, even if you are crouched and still ... and they attack you.
They run faster, I have a lot of difficulty locking them up in houses or sheds, and if you try to get to them from behind, you have to do it from afar (otherwise they see you) and do it slowly (otherwise they hear you) ... and from crouching you are very slow, almost as much as an infected and reaching him has become a challenge if you don't run ... but if you run they hear you.
By now the surprise silent attack from behind hardly works anymore ... either you shoot him in the head from a house, or from a distance if you can, or you have to attack him directly and suffer a lot more and plan to take a lot more damage and bleeding.
The silent attack has NOT been improved but WORSE ... and by a lot.
And the fact that, IF you can silently reach him from the back (much harder now), you can kill him with a single blow of the knife ... is irrelevant, as it has become a very rare event to do.
It was 1000 times better before. And it was also more realistic, if anyone cares (I have read some comments, but too few) ... I would like to see any living thing, infected or not, withstand 5, 6, 7 blows of the ax or accept, violent or not. .. and keep attacking.
An absurd thing.
They keep finding every way to ruin this beautiful game, as if it didn't already have enough flaws that have never been fixed forever ...
I just hope, sooner or later, someone will write a decent alternative ... and given how DayZ is doing, it wouldn't take long.
Many modders who write on DayZ surely could do better ...

[DefectiveWater 491]

2 hours ago, Riddick_2K said:

They keep finding every way to ruin this beautiful game, as if it didn't already have enough flaws that have never been fixed forever ...

I honestly think that all this 1.12 is just an unfinished vision of the game. I see what they are trying to make of the game, but I feel like 1.11 was more balanced overall when it comes to gameplay. 1.13 might be cool though... hopefully that update also tweaks the zeds, a lot of people are not liking the update, and it's fair that they don't like it because it's really objectively meh and clunky. Doing stealth kills on zeds feels like a RNG game if they will turn around and see you while you are walking towards them.

2 hours ago, Riddick_2K said:

It was 1000 times better before. And it was also more realistic

Agreed. If only we had the old zeds (damage and health) with the new aggro. At least you could kill them quickly, but I would remove the stagger from melee weapons just like 1.12 did.
Zeds need to: do more damage to player, have slightly less health, be more deaf when it comes to footsteps, and doors need silent open feature, and ideally zeds shouldn't hear me sprinting around inside a building because IRL sound doesn't travel through walls that easily.

And it feels to me like there will be a leg meta in 1.12, to explain what I mean by that:
Shooting a player 2 times in the plate with x54r = uncon.
Shooting a player 1 time in the legs with x54r = uncon... because you get broken legs too so x54r shock damage + broken leg shock damage = uncon, that needs to get changed.

[Tonyeh 444]

Has there been a boost to armour in the game?

I just took two shotgun blasts at close range there and all it did was make my press vest badly damaged.

[Derleth 1352]

8 hours ago, Tonyeh said:

Has there been a boost to armour in the game?

I just took two shotgun blasts at close range there and all it did was make my press vest badly damaged.

The plate carrier got a buff with the last hotfix, so maybe the pressy got a bit of a buff too? But two close range hits should at least have knocked you out regardless, sounds like he missed at least one, or was using rifled/rubber slug combo. Rifled slugs are poor against armour iirc.

Edited May 10, 2021 by Derleth

[Tonyeh 444]

5 hours ago, Derleth said:

The plate carrier got a buff with the last hotfix, so maybe the pressy got a bit of a buff too? But two close range hits should at least have knocked you out regardless, sounds like he missed at least one, or was using rifled/rubber slug combo. Rifled slugs are poor against armour iirc.

Perhaps. But I checked his body and he only had buckshot on him. Quite a bit too. Maybe he'd loaded the shotgun with a different loadout. But I don't see why he would, if he had the choice of buckshot, which would be far superior.

In any case if he missed it was a miracle, cos it was in a house with that kind of windowed corridor attachment to the side. I should really have been a goner and I didn't get the shock thing either? But the press vest was in a worn condition before that encounter and afterward was badly damaged, so he definitely hit me.

One of DayZ's weird moments, I spose.

[Derleth 1352]

7 minutes ago, Tonyeh said:

Perhaps. But I checked his body and he only had buckshot on him. Quite a bit too. Maybe he'd loaded the shotgun with a different loadout. But I don't see why he would, if he had the choice of buckshot, which would be far superior.

In any case if he missed it was a miracle, cos it was in a house with that kind of windowed corridor attachment to the side. I should really have been a goner and I didn't get the shock thing either? But the press vest was in a worn condition before that encounter and afterward was badly damaged, so he definitely hit me.

One of DayZ's weird moments, I spose.

Aye it happens. But I have many times first loaded a shotty with rubber slugs - because it was the only kind of ammo I found - and then when I later picked up some buckshot I forgot to reload. Then for a surprise in the next firefight...