Experimental Update 1.12 (Changelog)

[DefectiveWater 537]

Regarding landmines, it's better for the end user that he doesn't die immediately, that is true, but then what's the difference between the landmine and bear trap?
Considering the rarity gap, I would personally make landmines kill, beartraps break legs, maybe cause bleeding, maybe uncon, I don't know, they are good enough as is.

As I said already, my opinion is that: if the changes go through, then make setting up mines quieter, and remove the ticking sound.

If I had to keep either kill or broken legs, I would go for the kill... but, if we want to make the game more interactive, then breaking legs and causing a lot of damage (but not killing a full health player) is the way to go (along with what I suggested, no ticking, quieter placing sounds).
I'm perfectly fine with either as I usually don't find mines, or don't step on one either, so they affect like 0.0002% of my gameplay, and one is more fun for the victim, the other is more fun for the person who set it up.

Having more chances to interact, and not just "click boom dead" is better for the long run all things considered.

Edited April 6, 2021 by DefectiveWater

[-Gews- 7443]

On 4/5/2021 at 4:09 PM, BJayLee said:

I said that any automatic weapon(meaning ka's and m4) should not 1 shot unless its a headshot to someone without wearing ballistic protection becuase its an automatic not a sniper.

 Again, adding more depth and progression to loot, instead of all weapons doing the same thing, they are now unique, giving players the choice to pick the most effective weapon, based on how they wish to play. No point chosing between the weapons, if you can just use them all as a sniper and it be just as effective. You talk of complexity, yet want all weapons to 1 shot, you are something special.

Give me a logical explanation, to why the majority of rifles 1 shotting, even to the body, is better or more enjoyable, than balanced gameplay in a combat interaction.

Well first, DayZ was always advertised to be "authentic", and it attracted players who expected some level of this, so you need to have a certain level of realism, this is not a game like Overwatch or League of Legends where it's a cartoon world and the only concern between weapons/characters is making them nicely balanced for fair competitive gameplay. Where that level of acceptable realism depends, but unlike those other games, it exists. The developers already made plenty of things with no gameplay benefits. What is the gameplay benefit of having to fill my radiator? (simple annoyance). Or having different blood types? (only very few people bother to use blood bags). Actually DayZ was advertised as "anti-game" in early days. I don't know who enjoys some of those examples of "realism mechanics", because they can be tedious, but quite a few people enjoy having realistic gun battles.

Second: DayZ is not a competitive PVP game. You do not have the choice of picking your loadout in DayZ. You have to use what you find in the game world, which involves random luck. So unlike games like the above mentioned, or CSGO, or whatever, we are allowed to have weapons which have no redeeming features. They are simply worse. For example the BK-18 vs the CR-527,  a single shot rifle without optics, versus a bolt-action rifle with 5 shot magazines and taking a 12x scope. That's just worse. There is no reason to use it. And that's fine, because unless you find both, which may not happen, you don't get to choose.

You are exaggerating when you say there's no use for sniper rifles if assault rifles can one-shot. Back in old patches (0.5X era) even weapons like the UMP45 submachine gun could one-shot a geared player with a single round to the chest.

From WOBO's 2015 guide to the UMP45: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ptRkm167i0


But snipers were still very powerful and desired weapons in 0.5X patches, and in all patches... why? Because they had a lot more damage and could one-shot and knock out players a lot further, and it was way easier to hit players at long ranges in the first place when you have the hunting scope vs assault rifle scopes.


I don't think it's a big deal for the gameplay if the 5.45, 5.56, 7.62x39 one-shot to unprotected torso (1.12), or if they do not (1.11). They do not one-shot for a very long range anyways.

I think it would be better if the assault rifle cartridges could one-shot, but needed to hit a vital organ box like heart, otherwise it would take multiple shots. And maybe a larger round like .308 would only need to hit the torso to one-shot, or one of the much larger vital organ boxes like lungs. Unfortunately vital organs were dumped (lmao??).

As for the enjoyable "gameplay balance", how about this one: 7.62x39 with some actual power would allow players to defend against geared people using low-tier weapons like BK-18 or CR-527 (as it used to be). Whereas in 1.11 even a careful headshot, on a mid-geared player results in... nothing, not even a knockout. Any old helmet, very common to find, and it stops the bullet completely, they just run away full speed. And now they can zig-zag and spray you down as you reload your single shot.

 

[Buakaw 274]

I liked your initial suggestion better: 545 = 45 damage, 555= 55 damage, 762= 68 damage

556 in 1.12 would one-shot for nearly 100m.. and the drop-off is so low that you would still deal like 95 damage up to 400m. I don't think it's the expectation taht everyone always has 100 health next patch if these zombie changes go thru.

[Derleth 1357]

4 hours ago, Buakaw said:

I liked your initial suggestion better: 545 = 45 damage, 555= 55 damage, 762= 68 damage

556 in 1.12 would one-shot for nearly 100m.. and the drop-off is so low that you would still deal like 95 damage up to 400m. I don't think it's the expectation taht everyone always has 100 health next patch if these zombie changes go thru.

Yeah it is a strange change to the AR rounds, especially considering most of the complaints about the state of combat in DayZ up until now has been that there is too much instant death and too little use of unconscious states. So yeah, let's boost the weapons everyone go for to instakill in nearly all situations. But I haven't been in enough firefights on Exp to get a real feel for how it actually works out yet with armor penetration, body armour and shock values.

I still think they should set aside one experimental server for dedicated pvp testing. Spawn everyone near NWAF (or some other place, no matter) already armed and ready to go pewpew. This was done during 0.63 stress testing, so why not now?

(It is not hard to do, all you need is a server side custom mission with edited spawn points, plus loadouts in init.c and maybe some economy changes to make more guns litter the surroundings.)

Edit: Yes, as Gews says the vital organs should have been completed and brought back, not exorcised from the code... Come to think of it the lowish damage values for AR:s (55 across the board for 5.45, 5.56 and 7.62x39 iirc) were probably set while vitals were still on the drawing board. Now that vitals are out they need to go down the more arcadey route to make them more lethal. But finding an "authentic" balance will be difficult.

Edited April 7, 2021 by Derleth

[-Gews- 7443]

6 hours ago, Buakaw said:

I liked your initial suggestion better: 545 = 45 damage, 555= 55 damage, 762= 68 damage

556 in 1.12 would one-shot for nearly 100m.. and the drop-off is so low that you would still deal like 95 damage up to 400m. I don't think it's the expectation taht everyone always has 100 health next patch if these zombie changes go thru.

It doesn't deal that much damage that far. If my calculations from prior patches hold it will stop one shotting healthy player after about ~55 m. And that's only because it has an arbitrary 0.9 in config instead of 0.95 like the 5.45 or 7.62x39, which would halve that range. And I didn't test that 55 m barrier exactly, but I can say that it did not one-shot a few naked player characters I placed at 70-80 m.


However I see the developers had ANOTHER GREAT IDEA™ and gave the new Scout rifle (aka "Pioneer") a 1.5x speed boost. From ~2,990 feet per second to a whopping ~4500 feet per second. Absurd numbers. And the "Pioneer" doesn't even have a long barrel, it's actually 1 inch shorter than the barrel on the Steyr AUG, which is 20", like an M16. Unbelievably ridiculous. In real life it's maybe 6% increase in speed, a 12% increase in energy, going from a short 14.5" M4A1 to a 19" Steyr Scout barrel. Here is some real velocity levels, +/- 10 m/s, with 62 gr ball ammo:

M4A1: 880
AK101: 900 (+5% KE)
Steyr Scout: 930 (+12% KE)
Steyr AUG: 940 (+14% KE)

But in 1.12 the devs give this shit 50% more velocity:

1.12 Steyr Scout "Pioneer": 1365 (+125% KE)

This "Pioneer", if this was real life, would shoot 5.56 with 225% of the regular energy. That's like the energy figures for an M1 Garand .30-06 compared to an M4 Carbine. But from the same 5.56 round.



So not only are we are also doing the untrue "bolt actions are more powerful than assault rifles firing the same rounds from the same barrel lengths" meme in this game. But the caliber is actually entirely irrelevant now to ballistics or to damage, the fact it shoots 5.56 has little or no bearing on the speed, the damage, the trajectory, time of flight. This 5.56 from the "Pioneer" has a 9x longer killing range than the 5.56 from an M4, and a 25x longer killing range than 7.62x39 from an AK.

Weapon authenticity = out the window!


What's going on in that office? Just in patch 1.11, the very last patch, they reduced velocity of 5.56 "to match real values":

Quote

Reduced initial velocity of the 5.56x45mm ammunition by 9% to match real values

Now they turn it into some kind of fictional railgun thing? Shoots 4500 feet per second? No damage dropoff for hundreds of metres? Is it just a missed placeholder value? If so I complain for nothing. But along with airFriction changes I'm suspicious.

It does not appear to affect initial damage, only range at which the dropoff begins.

M4 vs "Pioneer", I'm assuming damage dropoffs looks something very much like this. Bizarre.

Edited April 7, 2021 by -Gews-

[Derleth 1357]

22 minutes ago, -Gews- said:

<SNIP>
What's going on in that office? Just in patch 1.11, the very last patch, they reduced velocity of 5.56 "to match real values":

Now they turn it into some kind of fictional railgun thing? Shoots 4500 feet per second? No damage dropoff for hundreds of metres? Is it just a missed placeholder value? If so I complain for nothing. But along with airFriction changes I'm suspicious.

It does not appear to affect initial damage, only range at which the dropoff begins.

Oh dear. I was wondering why the "Pioneer" was hitting like a freight train on steroids, that explains it...

Please @ImpulZ and others, this is a simple typo in the config, right?

[steam-76561198120678217 0]

脚架会回归吗？

will bipod atlas come back?（web translation ：）)

[J.A.T- 2]

@-Gews- Have you done damage drop off charts on the other calibers? I am really curious to see how they do with the changes they made.
I am getting more and more worried about these random changes that dont make any sense.
 

[-Gews- 7443]

33 minutes ago, J.A.T- said:

@-Gews- Have you done damage drop off charts on the other calibers? I am really curious to see how they do with the changes they made.
I am getting more and more worried about these random changes that dont make any sense.
 

I made one some pages back on 5.45 vs 7.62 Soviet, but I was assuming dropoff mechanic works the same as 1.11. Don't see why not, but just in case it doesn't I didn't make more because I need to test more to confirm.
 

 

[Andrei Amarfii 7]

14 hours ago, BJayLee said:

Nothing about what you said has anything to do with it been better or more enjoyable.

You're just stating how landmines work, along with a beginners guide on how to place a landmine.

Not a single thing you said explains why instantly dying is better gameplay.

Why is instant death better than the 1.12 version?? 

There is a reason you are dodging this. Plus, i have already explained why the 1.12 version is better, and you're just ignoring everything i've said. After all this debating, and you still haven't countered my original explanation.

At this point you are just dragging this out for the sake of it. Im bored, so unless you reply with something that is actually relevant, and counters my arguement, then im not wasting any more time trying to teach you basic logical reasoning.

Here is another brief explanation of why 1.12 landmines are better, in response to someone's comment of why they think landmines should instant kill.

I would give you an in depth, step by step explanation, but im not typing that much just so you can ignore it anyway.

The bold writing is something i just added in to help you understand better. Read the original comment first, ignoring the bold writing, then read it back with the bold writing.

 

I'm not going into subjective preferences of better/enjoyable, because that is personal to everyone. Someone enjoys instant kills, someone enjoys restraining his enemies a force feed them human steak.  That's personal choice and while I prefer first, I don't care if others play this game in other way.

I explained objectively that the chance of everything going right in landmine is miserably low and if it succeeds someone should die IMO.

How many mines did you actually planted on vanilla ? and how many of them did actually kill anyone except you ? 

I bet that is a very low number, most likely 0. 

[Buakaw 274]

6 hours ago, -Gews- said:

It doesn't deal that much damage that far. If my calculations from prior patches hold it will stop one shotting healthy player after about ~55 m. And that's only because it has an arbitrary 0.9 in config instead of 0.95 like the 5.45 or 7.62x39, which would halve that range. And I didn't test that 55 m barrier exactly, but I can say that it did not one-shot a few naked player characters I placed at 70-80 m.
 

I was going by Wobos graph. Misread a little, my bad. ~70m should be the 1hk range. It does still deal 98 damage at 100m and about 92-94 damage at 400m tho. The dropoff is so little it might as well not exist. Either way, even if the 1hk range is "only" 70m, it's still very powerful.

[Joe Scrub 37]

Some strange changes to the armour values in 1.12 as well:


The stab vest is now 33% stronger than the press vest and offers the same ballistic protection.
https://feedback.bistudio.com/T157706

The ballistic protection of the tactical vest has been entirely removed from the config file:

https://feedback.bistudio.com/T157705
Intentional @ImpulZ?

Edited April 7, 2021 by Joe Scrub

[Kathosky 119]

6 hours ago, -Gews- said:

It doesn't deal that much damage that far. If my calculations from prior patches hold it will stop one shotting healthy player after about ~55 m. And that's only because it has an arbitrary 0.9 in config instead of 0.95 like the 5.45 or 7.62x39, which would halve that range. And I didn't test that 55 m barrier exactly, but I can say that it did not one-shot a few naked player characters I placed at 70-80 m.


However I see the developers had ANOTHER GREAT IDEA™ and gave the new Scout rifle (aka "Pioneer") a 1.5x speed boost. From ~2,990 feet per second to a whopping ~4500 feet per second. Absurd numbers. And the "Pioneer" doesn't even have a long barrel, it's actually 1 inch shorter than the barrel on the Steyr AUG, which is 20", like an M16. Unbelievably ridiculous. In real life it's maybe 6% increase in speed, a 12% increase in energy, going from a short 14.5" M4A1 to a 19" Steyr Scout barrel. Here is some real velocity levels, +/- 10 m/s, with 62 gr ball ammo:

M4A1: 880
AK101: 900 (+5% KE)
Steyr Scout: 930 (+12% KE)
Steyr AUG: 940 (+14% KE)

But in 1.12 the devs give this shit 50% more velocity:

1.12 Steyr Scout "Pioneer": 1365 (+125% KE)

This "Pioneer", if this was real life, would shoot 5.56 with 225% of the regular energy. That's like the energy figures for an M1 Garand .30-06 compared to an M4 Carbine. But from the same 5.56 round.



So not only are we are also doing the untrue "bolt actions are more powerful than assault rifles firing the same rounds from the same barrel lengths" meme in this game. But the caliber is actually entirely irrelevant now to ballistics or to damage, the fact it shoots 5.56 has little or no bearing on the speed, the damage, the trajectory, time of flight. This 5.56 from the "Pioneer" has a 9x longer killing range than the 5.56 from an M4, and a 25x longer killing range than 7.62x39 from an AK.

Weapon authenticity = out the window!


What's going on in that office? Just in patch 1.11, the very last patch, they reduced velocity of 5.56 "to match real values":

Now they turn it into some kind of fictional railgun thing? Shoots 4500 feet per second? No damage dropoff for hundreds of metres? Is it just a missed placeholder value? If so I complain for nothing. But along with airFriction changes I'm suspicious.

It does not appear to affect initial damage, only range at which the dropoff begins.

M4 vs "Pioneer", I'm assuming damage dropoffs looks something very much like this. Bizarre.

Damn, the more you illustrate about ballistics changes in this 1.12 experimental, the more concerned I am. Like @Derleth asked, that particular "rail gun" value for the pionner has to be a typo error.

[Guest]

14 hours ago, -Gews- said:

...

The whole filling radiator thing and having blood types is just there for frustration/annoyance, and these are not the only examples that have no purpose other than annoying players. But that brings me back to something i said earlier about implementing realism as much as you can, if it adds to the gameplay experience. Something you would think game developers would already know.

I dont really know the point you are trying to make in the second paragraph. But from what i can gather(which i might be misunderstanding so this paragraph might be pointless), you're talking about not all weapons been equal to each other and having clear cut better weapons. If that is what you're saying, then i already went through this on how balancing weapons would only add to this(you might be thinking of balancing the wrong way here). Balancing doesn't mean making all weapons the same power level, its quite the opposite. Having balanced weapons would only add more loot progession and different tiers to loot instead of all close range encounters just been 1 shots, for most weapons, it would actually matter what gun you have and so on(I have given a detailed in depth explanation to this in previous comments).

I cant remember what i said about sniper rifles so cant say if i was exaggerating or not. But i can say this, sniper rifles are no longer so different to other standard rifles, in 1.12 most weapons act as a sniper just with different effective ranges. What you said about the UMP one shotting back in the day is ridiculous. DayZ has almost unlimited potential but now i understand why it's struggled for so long with gameplay like that. 

For anyone who has a taste for complex intense pvp then it is a big deal. In 1.12, close range(within 100m) encounters will be signifficantly dumbed down and unrewarding, that loses any intensity and outplay potential(again i have explained why in previous comments).

As for your last point, i never said 1.11 was balanced for gameplay, it's just more balanced than 1.12. 1.11 is still seriously flawed, and when i heard they were updating ballistic and armour values, i assumed it was to fix it and balance the pvp, but instead they went the complete other direction.

In regards to helmets(other than hockey, skate and tanker helmet), they all have ballistic protection reducing damage by 50%. To me, that's a problem, where's the loot progression. As you said, some of these helmets are very common and aquirable in spawn zones so why are they almost just as effective as the higher tier helmets(there is a slight difference in hitpoints but not enough to grant them all reducing damage by the same amount). But as i said, 1.11 is not balanced.

Also your arguement about wanting the ability to defend youself against someone better equiped. Well, thats the point of loot progression and having different tiers of loot. You gear up to better arm/protect yourself, and if you come up against someone more geared, then you can still kill them, it happens all the time(i go into detail about mid-combat decision making and how there're countless variables that take place in pvp that isn't just an insta kill, and how you can use that affect the outcome in previous comments). You just need to be smart and outplay them, because you are less equiped for combat, and that should be a disadvantage. But in 1.12, it hardly matters how equiped you are, you can just 1/2 shot them, without having to aim for anything special, no matter your weaponry(still refering to encounters within 100m).

Bringing me onto the vital organs topic, having too many makes it reductive as it gets to the point where you dont have to aim for it. Which is why i think the only organ hitboxes they should have is the brain, and the heart. Giving an extra level of depth to combat, now you can determine whether its more effective to go for the headshot or for the heart, taking into account what ballistic protection they are wearing, for their chest/head.

To give you a baseline of what balanced ballistics/armour would be(too lazy to go in depth on this right now and break down every type of ammo), .308 and 7.62x54 would be the only rounds capable of one shotting someone through the best helmet protection whilst only been able to bring someone down to 50HP to a standard chest shot(if they had heart organ, it would be down to 25, which is red), through the best chest protection(keeping in mind the more injured you are the slower you are, so there is no zig zagging argurment at this point). Now you probably thinking about damage drop off and what that means for its effective range, well(for these 2 calibers), there shouldn't damage drop off until after 200m(just an initial range but could be pushed to 250), meaning you have the guaranteed capability to one shot/injuring someone(reducing their movement speed so zig zagging isn't a factor) for up to 200m, and then damage drop off starts to take effect. Note this is with the best ballistic protection which not everyone has, plus i would make armour actually have different protection values instead of all been 50% damage reduction, which still blows my mind. Also, keep in mind this is just an initial thought of the top of my head, so no im not saying this is perfect, but it's a hell of alot closer to been balanced than 1.12 or 1.11. Cant believe the game has been out 8 years and they still got no idea what they're doing in terms of pvp. 

Another thing, i've said this before but here we go again, the zig zagging thing is a problem. One that should be fixed by a movement change not a, oh lets make everything one shot so they dont have a chance to zig zag. Plus you can play around zig zagging, wait for stam to run out and then shoot or just hold your aim and wait for them to start aiming at you and then you have a free shot. Or, you could also just realise they are better equiped so take the original headshot then reposition so they dont have the chance to use their better weaponry against you. As i said you can easily outplay someone with better gear.

Edited April 7, 2021 by Guest

[DefectiveWater 537]

This current balance sucks... badly. Just got one tapped by an AK firing full auto, I had no way to react to that.
I really don't get what the devs were thinking when they thought having 100 damage for ARs is ok.

EDIT: Yes I would have probably died with a damage nerf, but at least it's more aim dependant firing full auto at like 50 meters and hitting 2 shots, than just spraying in full auto and getting one hit and just dying instantly.

EDIT 2: These hardcore damage values would probably be fine if DayZ SA was originally like that, it's such a drastic change that I guess won't stick around. There are a lot of games that have such hardcore damage values, but as it is right now, I don't feel like that's what DayZ needs. Maybe if damage values were optional, so that server admins could to "normal damage" or "hardcore damage" if they want. It's experimental after all, so at least you guys tried it out. I was too harsh with my original comment.

Edited April 7, 2021 by DefectiveWater

[Guest]

9 minutes ago, DefectiveWater said:

This current balance sucks... badly. Just got one tapped by an AK, I had no way to react to that.
I really don't get what the devs were thinking when they thought having 100 damage for ARs is ok.

Yep, blows my mind how game developers can be so blind at times. Well just people in general really, im getting tired of explaining why this patch sucks. I've only been talking about the pvp changes too, mainly because it will affect the game more, but dont get me started on the zombie tanks. To put it simply, it's just another unnecessarily annoying/frustrating thing you have to deal with in DayZ. The increased attack rate and zombie stun is actually good but then you ruin it by making melee interactions with zombies even more clunky than it already is. Imagine an axe not one shotting a zombie to the head.

Edited April 7, 2021 by Guest

[Derleth 1357]

I'll take to these big words if 1.12 goes stable without any tweaks to these numbers, as it is it is still the first iteration of the patch, I expect at least a few rounds of fixes before it goes to stable.

The whole purpose of a testing branch after all.

I still would like to see a dedicated pvp testing server. Mash together a simple custom mission with everyone spawning around NWAF with a bit of clothes, food, guns and ammo and see the glorious log data come streaming in. A few normal servers for testing the regular game loop is of course also necessary - but you really should work more with the strengths of having a separate branch for testing. Wipe, mix, reset, do it all again. Nobody gets upset - it is experimental.

[Buakaw 274]

is there an estimate on stable release? I guess 2-3 weeks as usual?

[McWendy 675]

Why didn't they wipe? Still curious? Had a fully kitted char waiting for me. Was quite the surprise.

They should bring in AP mines. Will make the whole landmine discussion moot. 

A landmine as is in game should be rather hard to trigger by foot, more for vehicles. Now an AP mine is perfect for mutilation. 

[Homeschooliazon 87]

3 hours ago, Derleth said:

Nobody gets upset - it is experimental.

I wouldn't be so sure about that xD

[-Gews- 7443]

12 hours ago, Kathosky said:

Damn, the more you illustrate about ballistics changes in this 1.12 experimental, the more concerned I am. Like @Derleth asked, that particular "rail gun" value for the pionner has to be a typo error.

It's the same in CR527. Again a 1.5x velocity modifier. Real life value should be only about 3%, so 1.03x (compared to the AKM).

Now we have 7.62x39 bolt action that instead of a realistic ~2400 feet per second, shoots its bullets at over 3600 feet per second. That's ridiculously fast. 7.62x39 is not a fast round, it's fairly slow, it has a small casing and a fat bullet, it should have longer flight time and more bullet drop. That was actually quite realistic in 1.11, but now it's sent at hyper speeds from CR527, so bullet drop and time of flight and all this has no connection at all with the real thing. Can you even really call it "7.62x39" or such if the game depiction has no characteristics of that round?

Again for reference, if you increased the speed that much in real life, your little 7.62x39 would suddenly be as powerful as a .300 H&H Magnum:



In DayZ 1.12 however increasing speed seems to just delay dropoff, so you get a waaaaay longer killing range. It's 17x longer killing range from CR527 compared to same bullet fired from an AKM.

13 hours ago, Buakaw said:

I was going by Wobos graph. Misread a little, my bad. ~70m should be the 1hk range. It does still deal 98 damage at 100m and about 92-94 damage at 400m tho. The dropoff is so little it might as well not exist. Either way, even if the 1hk range is "only" 70m, it's still very powerful.

That graph is not correct, maybe WOBO put an extra zero in the airFriction or something like that. It should be a 2-hit kill past about 55 m. And a 3-hit kill past about 420 m. Unless you are shooting from the railgun "Pioneer". However you can barely hit anything at that range with an AR anyways. 
 

[-Gews- 7443]

Yes @Buakaw , here, damage drops off like my chart below, the WOBO one has a mistake. Got around to setting up a server to confirm.
 

22:49:24 | Player "Unknown/Dead Entity" hit by Player "Survivor" into Torso for 73.4908 damage (Bullet_556x45) with M4-A1 from 215.304 meters 

@J.A.T- here's another comparison.

So here is 5.45x39mm (blue) vs 5.56x45mm (green) in real life. The 5.45 is a bit less powerful, but it's more aerodynamic, so it catches up downrange. Overall the performance level is rather similar (duh).






Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand here is DayZ 1.12.
The 5.45 is a peashooter compared to the 5.56, not only does 5.56 kill in ONE SHOT at close ranges, but it's DOUBLE the power by 250 m and it's TRIPLE the damage by 550 m.

In other words M4A1 is a two-shot kill at any range you can except to hit, except under ~50 m range, where it's one-shot kill! Whereas AK-74 is two-shot kill, but over ~150 m it becomes three shot kill, then over ~270 m it becomes 4 shot kill!
At 360 m you will take 5 shots to kill!
At this range, M4A1 still only takes two shots to kill!

What kind of nonsense?


 

Edited April 8, 2021 by -Gews-

[andro_dawton 36]

Some real feedback (only caliber discussions are way to theoretic).

After a few hours playing and watching streams ... maybe something is going on with the shotguns? One extreme example from my own gameplay: One guy was fighting Z with a meele weapon. His shock value was raised allready and I could sneak up on him. I hit with rubber slugs about 1-2 meters away, 2 times. He tanked the rounds without body armor and runned of. And here an example from TRMZ about shootguns, he has loaded buckshoot and slug - guy is tanking: 

 "https://www.twitch.tv/videos/977398996?t=00h39m32s"

Some of the new food itmes took way to long to eat compared to the time it takes to eat fat for example.

Wolfs still not howling from time to time. I dont think this is intentional. The game (and the Ai) should allow decisions and avoid dead ends. Example: I was low on health and was just ready after cooking and eating and was about to travel in the next village. About 100 meters from the last building there was a sneak attack from wolfes. This was an encounter I had  no chance to make a decision. They bit me 2 times. The last hit was my head - "you are dead". You should hear them 100% if you are in their dangerous radius to have a chance to avoid such encounters.

On a server with high population many Z was stuck often in corners of buildings.

About the Z rebalance and stealth attack the changes are graeat. Maybe a "stealth open doors" machanic would be a nice addition.

Things wear out fast. Its more annoying than challenging to reapiar cloth after every Z encounter and clean the weapon after every few shoots.

Edited April 8, 2021 by andro_dawton

[-Gews- 7443]

3 minutes ago, andro_dawton said:

Some real feedback (caliber discussions are way to theoretic).

After a few hours playing and watching streams ... maybe something is going on with the shotguns?

I didn't test or look at the rubber slugs. But with the regular slugs, I found this very amusing! Results of 5.56 vs a 12 gauge slug at fairly close range against naked fresh spawns. Probably not what you would expect.
 

For reference...




I should say, the 12 gauge slug actually has accurate ballistics in terms of the velocity and airFriction etc. But it does not enough initial damage, it stays the same since 1.11 while all the other rounds increased.
 

[Derleth 1357]

1 hour ago, -Gews- said:

Yes @Buakaw , here, damage drops off like my chart below, the WOBO one has a mistake. Got around to setting up a server to confirm.
 

22:49:24 | Player "Unknown/Dead Entity" hit by Player "Survivor" into Torso for 73.4908 damage (Bullet_556x45) with M4-A1 from 215.304 meters 

@J.A.T- here's another comparison.

So here is 5.45x39mm (blue) vs 5.56x45mm (green) in real life. The 5.45 is a bit less powerful, but it's more aerodynamic, so it catches up downrange. Overall the performance level is rather similar (duh).






Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand here is DayZ 1.12.
The 5.45 is a peashooter compared to the 5.56, not only does 5.56 kill in ONE SHOT at close ranges, but it's DOUBLE the power by 250 m and it's TRIPLE the damage by 550 m.

In other words M4A1 is a two-shot kill at any range you can except to hit, except under ~50 m range, where it's one-shot kill! Whereas AK-74 is two-shot kill, but over ~150 m it becomes three shot kill, then over ~270 m it becomes 4 shot kill!
At 360 m you will take 5 shots to kill!
At this range, M4A1 still only takes two shots to kill!

What kind of nonsense?


 

This is just silly, there's just no way this can be allowed to go to 1.12 stable. Ah well if it does I'll make a rebalance mod if nobody else does...