Experimental Update 1.12 (Changelog)

[Kaliber22 1]

 

 

Edited April 9, 2021 by Kaliber22

[BORIZZ.K 13]

53 minutes ago, Kaliber22 said:

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Magic packer )))

[Derleth 1357]

2 hours ago, etwas said:

most of these streamers only care about pvp. i had to listen to a big rant by toperec few days ago. as if they worry about new players lol. come on.

Very true. The most common perspective to the whinging about the changes to zombies has been "it messes with peeveepee". Still, as a player who focuses solely on PvE and survival, I too saw problems with the combination of stronger, more alert zeds less likely to be staggered combined with melee weapons getting nerfed to the floor. The combined effect was simply too much. Sadly, devs have chosen now to adjust the infected rather than the melee damage. Strong zombies is great imo - if you can have the tools to deal with them if you do it right. In my opinion the chance of their attacks causing bleeding, bleed rate, shredding clothes and their resisting stagger was perfectly fine - but a splitting axe needing 3-4 hits to the head to kill one zed was and is stupid

 Let the zeds be strong but also let heavy melee weapons be efficient when fighting them.

[McWendy 675]

2 hours ago, Kaliber22 said:

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That's bad really bad.

Did have a chuckle :d

 

 

 

 

[Tonyeh 454]

15 minutes ago, Derleth said:

Very true. The most common perspective to the whinging about the changes to zombies has been "it messes with peeveepee". Still, as a player who focuses solely on PvE and survival, I too saw problems with the combination of stronger, more alert zeds less likely to be staggered combined with melee weapons getting nerfed to the floor. The combined effect was simply too much. Sadly, devs have chosen now to adjust the infected rather than the melee damage. Strong zombies is great imo - if you can have the tools to deal with them if you do it right. In my opinion the chance of their attacks causing bleeding, bleed rate, shredding clothes and their resisting stagger was perfectly fine - but a splitting axe needing 3-4 hits to the head to kill one zed was and is stupid

 Let the zeds be strong but also let heavy melee weapons be efficient when fighting them.

Agreed. Melee fighting in 1.12 is a very different kettle of fish. I mean it was a clunky affair before (it always has been in DayZ), but now it's downright terrible with the nerf. This is the biggest problem I have with 1.12. Infected being a tougher opponent is fine, but making the likes of the fireman's or splitting axe into soft rubber is not.

I currently play on Spaggie's Namalsk and I think the infected are already tough enough. They get in enough hits on me to make me think twice about going for something on the map if there's more than two in close proximity, and I have to be a little smarter around them. Although that probably has something to do with the 1PP and no white dot as an aiming point too. Enough hits from them results in damaged gear, which in Namalsk really matters because it's so cold.

So these changes in 1.12 on the Namalsk map is going to a significant effect and I don't think in a good way.

 

 

Although if there's one thing I'd really like to see reversed, it's the durability of footwear which got (inexplicably) screwed a couple of patches ago. It sucks so bad at the moment and having to change footwear so frequently is just silly.

[Joe Scrub 37]

No mention of a tweak on the melee damage yet, I really hope they're not going to push to stable with the values at what they are now, they've confirmed they're changing anyway so I hope they do it now and save us a patch of useless 2 handed melee and continued OP 1 handed.

Also, a stab vest in 1.12 has the same ballistic damage protection in 1.12 as the plate carrier now in 1.11 and outperforms the press vest... what?

Footwear has had ridiculous wear for some time now, I think since around 1.05 or 1.06 but I'm not sure.

Edited April 9, 2021 by Joe Scrub

[McWendy 675]

1 hour ago, Tonyeh said:

Agreed. Melee fighting in 1.12 is a very different kettle of fish. I mean it was a clunky affair before (it always has been in DayZ), but now it's downright terrible with the nerf. This is the biggest problem I have with 1.12. Infected being a tougher opponent is fine, but making the likes of the fireman's or splitting axe into soft rubber is not.

I currently play on Spaggie's Namalsk and I think the infected are already tough enough. They get in enough hits on me to make me think twice about going for something on the map if there's more than two in close proximity, and I have to be a little smarter around them. Although that probably has something to do with the 1PP and no white dot as an aiming point too. Enough hits from them results in damaged gear, which in Namalsk really matters because it's so cold.

So these changes in 1.12 on the Namalsk map is going to a significant effect and I don't think in a good way.

 

I play there too and find dealing with two /three is doable if you have a heavy melee weapon. Just let Them charge you and swing for the fences. For now its usually a one hit kill. The update Will make it way harder which i like, the reason why i dont like.

They do respawn annoyingly quick. Especially around mil complexes. 

[Homeschooliazon 87]

On 3/31/2021 at 10:14 PM, Kyiara said:

Removed the heavy hit animation being caused by all bullets except 762x54 and .308

I think .357 should keep it. I saw on Galileo that money transporters use it for its man-stop effect. look how long it is, there is so much gunpowder which means it flies fast! And how flat the tip is! Auaaaa!

[-Gews- 7443]

25 minutes ago, Homeschooliazon said:

I think .357 should keep it. I saw on Galileo that money transporters use it for its man-stop effect. look how long it is, there is so much gunpowder which means it flies fast! And how flat the tip is! Auaaaa!

I think if they have it it should be modified per round's damage, small damage = small flinch, big damage = big flinch. Not just one animation the exact same. Otherwise just remove it entirely. Shotgun slug should also have it in any case.

[McWendy 675]

6 minutes ago, -Gews- said:

I think if they have it it should be modified per round's damage, small damage = small flinch, big damage = big flinch. Not just one animation the exact same. Otherwise just remove it entirely. Shotgun slug should also have it in any case.

Probably not gonna happen cause calibers are hard enough to get right as is, but maybe have different shapes? 

9mm is available in hardpoint and hollow. Same goes for most calibers. Make us choose between penetrating or stopping ability. 

 

 

 

[Tonyeh 454]

1 hour ago, McWendy said:

I play there too and find dealing with two /three is doable if you have a heavy melee weapon. Just let Them charge you and swing for the fences. For now its usually a one hit kill. The update Will make it way harder which i like, the reason why i dont like.

They do respawn annoyingly quick. Especially around mil complexes. 

On Spaggies Namalsk, it's more difficult to aim the swing without the white dot on the screen. Which is good. I find myself sometimes hitting the zed but not knocking it out with one swing. Then it's a desperate whacking contest to finish it off and often they'll get a hit in. So if you have three of them on top of you, you're likely to be buggered with the changes in 1.12.

My standard loadout for dealing with zeds is the splitting axe or a pistol (.45 calibre or Deagle). The Deagle was brilliant. A one shot zombie popper. But that got nerfed too. 😒 Haven't found a Deagle on Namalsk yet. I don't think they can spawn on that map. Plus .357 is nearly impossible to come across. So at the moment I carry an FNX45 of which I have only found one in about a week of playing. There's plenty of Colt 45's knocking around, but they're a poor second really.

The only good thing about this patch, for me, is the fact that the zeds won't be so sensitive to suppressed weapons now and come charging from all angles. I've been waiting for that for a LONG time. So, my method for dealing with them will now involve more gunplay I spose.

[-Gews- 7443]

On 4/8/2021 at 3:37 AM, Derleth said:

Hmm. Despite all the talk here, on yootoob and twitter about ballistics and bullet damage I can't find a single ticket on the feedback tracker concerning 1.12 ballistics, bullet damage changes or the shock "stun" from getting hit. So I wouldn't be very surprised if these changes slip through without changing...

Now Geez said in a ticket response that at least the melee damage values are still being modified, so we'll see what comes with next update to experimental.

https://feedback.bistudio.com/T157735
https://feedback.bistudio.com/T157734

Got around to doing a couple.

[Homeschooliazon 87]

1 hour ago, Tonyeh said:

On Spaggies Namalsk, it's more difficult to aim the swing without the white dot on the screen. Which is good. I find myself sometimes hitting the zed but not knocking it out with one swing. Then it's a desperate whacking contest to finish it off and often they'll get a hit in. So if you have three of them on top of you, you're likely to be buggered with the changes in 1.12.

My standard loadout for dealing with zeds is the splitting axe or a pistol (.45 calibre or Deagle). The Deagle was brilliant. A one shot zombie popper. But that got nerfed too. 😒 Haven't found a Deagle on Namalsk yet. I don't think they can spawn on that map. Plus .357 is nearly impossible to come across. So at the moment I carry an FNX45 of which I have only found one in about a week of playing. There's plenty of Colt 45's knocking around, but they're a poor second really.

The only good thing about this patch, for me, is the fact that the zeds won't be so sensitive to suppressed weapons now and come charging from all angles. I've been waiting for that for a LONG time. So, my method for dealing with them will now involve more gunplay I spose.

Amphibia one-shots zombies to the head now, a good zombie killer! So much ammo lying around and very quiet. You can climb something or go in a house and shoot the zombies that gather around you while you are safe.

[Roddis 23]

11 hours ago, -Gews- said:

I think if they have it it should be modified per round's damage, small damage = small flinch, big damage = big flinch. Not just one animation the exact same. Otherwise just remove it entirely. Shotgun slug should also have it in any case.

Agree. 

I think that every bullet have to cause ''something'', maybe leaving people to react somehow, but with some penalties. It is simply reasonable that you feel somehow a bullet that hit you. 

Its interesting even what someone else said about different kind of bullets. Some are more penetrating prone some have more stopping power.

So for the first should be a faster loss in health that make you slow down pretty instantly (first seconds) and make you need to heal in the first minute or so. The other that make you flinch a lot but with way less damage on your body. 

Would be a great diversification.

 

 

[DefectiveWater 535]

54 minutes ago, Roddis said:

Its interesting even what someone else said about different kind of bullets. Some are more penetrating prone some have more stopping power.

Ye, nah... DayZ doesn't need like 50 more ammo types.

Bullets already cause your camera to shake a little (don't know if this affects your aim), they cause shock damage which makes your screen darker and causes tunnel vision. Bullets can also break your legs. Bullets also cause bleeding. What more do you people want?

Temporary movement speed penalty? Because that's the only thing I can think of that would make some sense for "realism" and balance sake. If something like this is added, this should be only on .357 and higher (excluding arm shots), slugs should get stagger like .308 and x54r.

[Derleth 1357]

1 hour ago, DefectiveWater said:

Ye, nah... DayZ doesn't need like 50 more ammo types.

Bullets already cause your camera to shake a little (don't know if this affects your aim), they cause shock damage which makes your screen darker and causes tunnel vision. Bullets can also break your legs. Bullets also cause bleeding. What more do you people want?

Temporary movement speed penalty? Because that's the only thing I can think of that would make some sense for "realism" and balance sake. If something like this is added, this should be only on .357 and higher (excluding arm shots), slugs should get stagger like .308 and x54r.

I simply think taking shock damage should also reduce temporary stamina. Knocking the air out of your lungs so to say - simple thing that prevents sprinting away immediately upon getting hit, but no animation lock. I think it would work well.

[DefectiveWater 535]

1 minute ago, Derleth said:

I simply think taking shock damage should also reduce temporary stamina. Knocking the air out of your lungs so to say - simple thing that prevents sprinting away immediately upon getting hit, but no animation lock. I think it would work well.

I wouldn't touch stamina at all, you need stamina to shoot back (hold breath) for gameplay (gunfight "interaction") purposes, otherwise it's too one sided for the person who shot first (same as stagger, but much less of an advantage, still an advantage).

[Derleth 1357]

13 hours ago, -Gews- said:

https://feedback.bistudio.com/T157735
https://feedback.bistudio.com/T157734

Got around to doing a couple.

Thanks man, hope the team will listen. If they don't I'll make a mod (if nobody else does it faster and better, I'm not a modder...)

[Derleth 1357]

3 minutes ago, DefectiveWater said:

I wouldn't touch stamina at all, you need stamina to shoot back (hold breath) for gameplay (gunfight "interaction") purposes, otherwise it's too one sided for the person who shot first (same as stagger, but much less of an advantage, still an advantage).

That's exactly why I think they should use stamina. You can shoot back but you'll not be super accurate just after taking a shot which is perfectly fine. The person who shot first and hit you deserves the advantage, but you're still able to respond. (Not animation locked)

Edited April 10, 2021 by Derleth

[DefectiveWater 535]

24 minutes ago, Derleth said:

That's exactly why I think they should use stamina. You can shoot back but you'll not be super accurate just after taking a shot which is perfectly fine. The person who shot first and hit you deserves the advantage, but you're still able to respond. (Not animation locked)

So making the gunfights more one-sided is the way to go? because that's exactly what that is.
In my opinion giving too much of an advantage to the shooter is bad, the shooter should win based on: the fact that he shot first so he has more HP than the victim and the fact that he is already pre-aimed on a target, not because the other guy was handicapped by having less or no stamina so he couldn't shoot back or run away.
If the shooter's aim is bad enough to not be able to kill a player where he ALREADY had an advantage by being the one who shot first (so there is already an HP difference), then he deserves to get whooped.

Shooter should decide if engaging in the gunfight is worth it, and if he has a good shot, this takes that equation out of the picture because it gives too much advantage to the shooter (victim can't runaway or shoot back accurately).

 

Unless you meant that stamina recovers from a hit very quickly, much quicker than normal stamina regen, then I guess that's kinda okay... stops the target from holding breath instantly, and should recover in less that a second or two, but still I'm not too keen on giving the shooters even more advantages than they already have by nature (being the one who shot first, the other guy has to react, to search for the attacker, and finally aim at the attacker). But this would require testing, like actual testing in a PVP environment (PVP experimental server pls) instead of typical DayZ gameplay loop, to get more info and feedback.

Edited April 10, 2021 by DefectiveWater

[Roddis 23]

3 hours ago, DefectiveWater said:

Temporary movement speed penalty? Because that's the only thing I can think of that would make some sense for "realism" and balance sake. If something like this is added, this should be only on .357 and higher (excluding arm shots), slugs should get stagger like .308 and x54r.

So if I understand correctly you would be fine that an arm shot with whatever gun would make you kinda suffer some aim defectiveness?

If so, its what Im speaking about. But they will not go with ''sophisticated things". They, in this patch, wanted to aim to some more authenticity keeping things simple (as most of DayZ mechanisms are). 

But we are speaking about the same thing. You take a shot, you suffer some consequences on the actual fight that caused it...simply like that. 

Is it aim, is it stamina, is it staggering...who cares I would say.

You took a shot, you suffer a consequence on that fight. 

If you are so able to outdo your opponent despite your actual handicap...well you really deserved it. But you should do have an actual handicap now indeed. 

Edited April 10, 2021 by Roddis

[Derleth 1357]

56 minutes ago, DefectiveWater said:

So making the gunfights more one-sided is the way to go? because that's exactly what that is.
In my opinion giving too much of an advantage to the shooter is bad, the shooter should win based on: the fact that he shot first so he has more HP than the victim and the fact that he is already pre-aimed on a target, not because the other guy was handicapped by having less or no stamina so he couldn't shoot back or run away.
If the shooter's aim is bad enough to not be able to kill a player where he ALREADY had an advantage by being the one who shot first (so there is already an HP difference), then he deserves to get whooped.

Shooter should decide if engaging in the gunfight is worth it, and if he has a good shot, this takes that equation out of the picture because it gives too much advantage to the shooter (victim can't runaway or shoot back accurately).

 

Unless you meant that stamina recovers from a hit very quickly, much quicker than normal stamina regen, then I guess that's kinda okay... stops the target from holding breath instantly, and should recover in less that a second or two, but still I'm not too keen on giving the shooters even more advantages than they already have by nature (being the one who shot first, the other guy has to react, to search for the attacker, and finally aim at the attacker). But this would require testing, like actual testing in a PVP environment (PVP experimental server pls) instead of typical DayZ gameplay loop, to get more info and feedback.

Stamina already regenerates very quickly so I'd say it doesn't need to be any quicker. And I can't agree it becomes one-sided, it merely slows you down and impacts your ability to hold breath - a sensible penalty for losing initiative and getting hit. You'll still be able to respond and hit the shooter if you're quick and able. I actually think it would improve the dynamics, not the other way around. And the basis is that actually getting shot is something that you shouldn't be able to shrug off without being affected (now considering players with body armour, unarmored are bound to die regardless with weapon damage of 1.12...)

And yes, a dedicated experimental server for pvp testing should really be a thing for this 1.12 patch. Why they haven't bothered to set that up is beyond me. It is easy to do for a private server owner, for the devs with all the tools at their disposal it's even easier.

Edited April 10, 2021 by Derleth

[DefectiveWater 535]

25 minutes ago, Roddis said:

You took a shot, you suffer a consequences on that fight. 

In one way or another, yes.
It should be in my opinion:

- upper torso shot = movement speed penalty or inability to hold breath (less than a second, no changes to stamina, just unable to hold breath)
- arm shot = possibility to fracture arm bone (breaking arms as a new mechanic) that causes more random sway when not holding breath, and some sway while holding breath with faster stamina loss and shock damage while holding breath. Maybe also no power attacks with a fractured arm. (holding breath usually is 100% steady, with fractured arm it should be about 80% or so, but receiving shock damage).

- leg shots = as of right now they can cause leg fractures + adding brief inability to sprint.

This would promote choosing where you want to shoot, if somebody doesn't see you, going for leg shots is good so they can't run away as easily. If they see you and try aiming at you, shooting at torso/arms is a good way to mess with their aim (and it deals more damage).

Medical splints should be added as we now have broken bones, they should be kinda rare, smaller than craftable splints, and lighter than craftable splints. 
Some of this might be too much, and should be dialed down or not implemented if it's too much, this is a game, it should be fun but yet still have some elements of realism. All of this might make PVP less enjoyable, just like staggering, so there should be some caution with implementation.

TLDR: placement of a shot should determine the consequences instead of using one size fits all method of landing a shot anywhere = same penalty as elsewhere.

Edited April 10, 2021 by DefectiveWater

[Roddis 23]

 

34 minutes ago, DefectiveWater said:

- arm shot = possibility to fracture arm bone (breaking arms as a new mechanic) that causes more random sway when not holding breath, and some sway while holding breath with faster stamina loss and shock damage while holding breath.

Yeah...in our hardcore wet dreams lol!!!

Im not a veteran of DayZ but if Im not wrong they took 8 years to add leg fracture...they will never touch aim so deeply.

So they really timidly introduced this flinch and they already substantially took it away. 

So let try to keep what we have. 

- Stagger as they introduced for high caliber, high stopping power (yes 357 should definitively stay here).

- A soft/short form of it for smaller caliber.

- Would be great to have your health decrease way faster if you took an ''high penetration'' bullet, that cause you to slow down pretty instantly (less than 5 sec)

I would settle for it.

Edited April 10, 2021 by Roddis

[Tonyeh 454]

47 minutes ago, Derleth said:

...actually getting shot is something that you shouldn't be able to shrug off without being affected...

I generally don't PvP. But I watched a YouTube vid last night of someone on a Deer Isle server. He was blasting people with all manner of ammo, 308, 7.62, whatever you're having yourself, and the amount of times people just ran away after a direct hit was farcical. Using a Winchester, he hit one guy coming out of a barrack building. A straight whack. The guy he shot just stopped for a second, then legged it away, not a bother. 🙄