Experimental Update 1.12 (Changelog)

[William Sternritter 441]

54 minutes ago, Derleth said:

The release of aggro at uncon is truly poorly implemented. This MUST be tweaked so this happens only if there are other (conscious) players nearby that the infected are alerted to. Until such a system is ready, I'd prefer if this change is reverted. If you are alone and bugger up so you get cornered and beaten uncon by zeds - death should follow. If there's another player on their shit list though - KILL HIM TOOO!!! and off they go, giving you a chance to crawl off and patch yourself up.

In my experience, while they loose interest when you're uncon they stick around and immediately attack you when you regain consciousness. I quite like that as it gives someone else an opportunity to save you but on your own you're screwed anyway. 

I also thought that this will be a bitch when you want to kill yourself but once you're uncon you can respawn. 
 

[DefectiveWater 491]

In my opinion, the best way to sort this all out is to lower 5.56 damage to like 55 as it used to be, 7.62x39 to 65-75 (more recoil), and 5.45 to like 40-45 (less recoil), but give each round it's own armor pen values or increase the existing ones (obviously less than 9x39 AP round, those should just ignore plate carrier and deal full damage, damage value should be between M4 and AKM).
For example, .308 and 7.62x54mmr SHOULDN'T one shot players through plates (or give them super ultra rare AP rounds if you want a rifle that can one shot plates), so give them a damage value that is enough to reliably one shot unarmored targets at a distance (chest hits), but give them enough armor pen to offset the plate carrier buff. 
You shouldn't make a "small" 5.56 round in an M4 have the same if not better (full auto) ability to one shot unarmored players VS a 7.62x54mmr round in a Mosin which is a bolt action rifle.
That way you won't have 5.56 one shotting freshies issue, and the plate carriers are useful against lower calibers.

I really don't see the point of having higher cal guns on my characters anymore, you get an AR with a scope and you are set...

Everything I said has no basis on real numbers and they might not be 1:1 as how it is in reality, but it's my view from game balance standpoint. I just wanted to comment my view on the topic. Other details like bullet velocity and air friction I have no clue about.

Remove the stagger from ALL but the highest calibers in the game , those obviously being 7.62x54mmr and .308 win (and rubber slugs).

 

Edited April 3, 2021 by DefectiveWater

[Derleth 1352]

45 minutes ago, William Sternritter said:

In my experience, while they loose interest when you're uncon they stick around and immediately attack you when you regain consciousness. I quite like that as it gives someone else an opportunity to save you but on your own you're screwed anyway. 

I also thought that this will be a bitch when you want to kill yourself but once you're uncon you can respawn. 
 

Aye, time will tell how it works out when it goes live, some whingy old timers on Experimental rarely get the whole picture...

I love all the new food items, at long last we're seeing some more variety on that front. However my impression from a total of 5-6 hours on experimental is that so far they've simple thrown these into the economy without reducing the amount of the old foods - leading to food literally lying around everywhere. I know some players will definitely appreciate this, but to me it seems exaggerated now. Still time for tweaks though.

Bullet damage and ballistics changes I can't really say much about yet, except I love that the .22 will again kill zombies with a clean headshot. It makes the MKII go from utterly worthless to a valid sidearm vs infected. Integrally suppressed and common ammo - win win. Considering melee has seen such a major nerf this makes it even better. Make sure to get that clean hit though, they get angry when you just nick them...

Edited April 3, 2021 by Derleth

[Amish199 2]

In this exp the velocity, air friction, and damage of every single caliber have become even more distant from the real ones. For example, it does not make sense that 5,56x45 (M4) is more aerodinamic than 5,45x39 (AK74); in real life it's the opposite. Or the .22 round that is enough to kill someone in the head at close range but in DayZ... Very disapointed with the ballistics tweak in this experimental and I am getting tired of so many ballistics changes. Realize that this is not an alpha anymore, not even close since we are more than 2 years from the "release". There should have been one or two major updates to ballistics and that's it, should have been enough to adjust them very faithfully to real values, not many arbitrary updates to "balance", that do not make real sense at all because all they want is to "improve pew pew pew gameplay". It is not that difficult to research and adjust them as close to reality as possible. If you don't want to make something that is supposed to be though with a real ballistic simulation, rename your own calibers and don't use REAL NAMES but with values that don't are real. SUCH A CONTINUOUS ARBITRARINESS!

[William Sternritter 441]

43 minutes ago, Derleth said:

I love all the new food items, at long last we're seeing some more variety on that front. However my impression from a total of 5-6 hours on experimental is that so far they've simple thrown these into the economy without reducing the amount of the old foods - leading to food literally lying around everywhere. I know some players will definitely appreciate this, but to me it seems exaggerated now. Still time for tweaks though.

Yeah my initial impression would also be that there is food everywhere now, on the other hand you're constantly hungry because you're constantly cold. I haven't left the coast since the update but between the tougher infected which always damage your clothing and lack of good clothing ... I'm eating like there's no tomorrow 😄

BTW these new snacks bring out some childhood memories 🙂

 

[Buakaw 274]

I dont like it at all.

[orionkaelin 2]

On 3/31/2021 at 2:14 PM, Kyiara said:

• You now have to peel potatoes to make them edible

I know a lot of people peel potatoes before eating but my family doesn't, depending on the dish. Plus potatoes peels are very nutritious adding to the balance of a carb heavy food.
"How about scrub/wash" instead to prevent dirt bacterial contamination or something?
If left raw maybe peel before eating, especially since skins are tough uncooked, but if cooked then don't require peeling?

Edited April 3, 2021 by orionkaelin

[Derleth 1352]

1 hour ago, Buakaw said:

I dont like it at all.

Personally my first impressions after watching the video is that this can be really fun. I know pvp people will hate the stun/stagger when getting hit - but again this is not call of doody. If you're hit by a rifle round, armoured or not, you will not sprint on as if nothing happened. If I called the shots I would have taken it a step further by knocking players to the ground and reduce temp stamina to zero (=getting the air knocked out of your lungs..)

[William Sternritter 441]

22 minutes ago, orionkaelin said:

I know a lot of people peel potatoes before eating but my family doesn't, depending on the dish. Plus potatoes peels are very nutritious adding to the balance of a carb heavy food.
"How about scrub/wash" instead to prevent dirt bacterial contamination or something?
If left raw maybe peel before eating, especially since skins are tough uncooked, but if cooked then don't require peeling?

I think this depends on the type of potato. Washing it before eating or  cooking it unpealed is a good compromise. 

[Buakaw 274]

36 minutes ago, Derleth said:

Personally my first impressions after watching the video is that this can be really fun. I know pvp people will hate the stun/stagger when getting hit - but again this is not call of doody. If you're hit by a rifle round, armoured or not, you will not sprint on as if nothing happened. If I called the shots I would have taken it a step further by knocking players to the ground and reduce temp stamina to zero (=getting the air knocked out of your lungs..)

I just don't think so at all for reasons given above and I am willing to bet the second you will get stunned by an SKS from a guy sitting in some corner you will change your mind. It makes camping or holding even stronger and it removes all counterplay to it. There is nothing good about this at all, or about the massively increased damage values on smaller calibers. I can get behind a 308 oneshotting in most cases, but not AR calibers. On top bullets once again are easier to land due to reduced air friction.

This patch so far really just dumbs down gameplay. If you want to mix up or make PVP more interesting, start by removing the limitless 0 inertia zig zagging and do a more considerate balance of ballistics and melee weapons. Having a fully automatic rilfe that is theoritcally capable of killing 60 players with 1 mag, has high velocity, low recoil and which also stuns players if it didn't kill them doesn't just sound overpowered on paper.

Stunning or slowing down is not completely without merit per sey, but not to the extent it's happening in 1.12 atm. A brief slow down or running speed debuff or reduction of stamina would do. But being completely unable to move, locked in an animation for a second? If there is one thing Dayz definitely did not need it's more locked animations.

[Buakaw 274]

If I wanted to improve gameplay/ PVP, I would change the following:

• lower the aim sway a lot, its currently way over the top.
• add inertia to sprinting/general movement
• all assault rifles/automatics have more recoil but slightly tighter aim cone.
• get rid of "rng recoil patterns", it makes no sense when I hipfire an m4 that 10 bullets in a row go towards the left of my crosshair in a line. It's pseudo counter strike. A simple aim cone is the way to go, just like Arma 3. see
  Spoiler

  note where the bullets go.

  this is bullshit. the gun barely has recoil and yet the bullets seem totally out of my control. what a disgusting way to program gunplay. Arma 3's system is much better.

   

• bring ballistics and damage more in line with RL values. small arms should be more deadly. Gews has illustrated better stats several times.

there is probably a lot more but thats what I can think of from top of my head.

Seriously it's actually sad how dumbed down the gunplay is in this game compared to Arma or earlier versions. Not that it was perfect in those either, far from it.

[Tonyeh 444]

3 hours ago, Buakaw said:

I dont like it at all.

Meh.

I see they nerfed the crap out of the .357 to a stupid level.

The more I see of this patch the less I like it.

[DefectiveWater 491]

2 hours ago, Buakaw said:

I just don't think so at all for reasons given above and I am willing to bet the second you will get stunned by an SKS from a guy sitting in some corner you will change your mind. It makes camping or holding even stronger and it removes all counterplay to it. There is nothing good about this at all, or about the massively increased damage values on smaller calibers. I can get behind a 308 oneshotting in most cases, but not AR calibers. On top bullets once again are easier to land due to reduced air friction.

This patch so far really just dumbs down gameplay. If you want to mix up or make PVP more interesting, start by removing the limitless 0 inertia zig zagging and do a more considerate balance of ballistics and melee weapons. Having a fully automatic rilfe that is theoritcally capable of killing 60 players with 1 mag, has high velocity, low recoil and which also stuns players if it didn't kill them doesn't just sound overpowered on paper.

Stunning or slowing down is not completely without merit per sey, but not to the extent it's happening in 1.12 atm. A brief slow down or running speed debuff or reduction of stamina would do. But being completely unable to move, locked in an animation for a second? If there is one thing Dayz definitely did not need it's more locked animations.

Agreed 1001%, it will promote a hell of a lot more camping, because once you have somebody in your sights only one hit is needed to guarantee a kill with a stun. It just isn't balanced, no matter how many of you feel like it's realistic to get knocked down when shot, or things like that, it's still a game afterall... it needs to be fun, and not "animation lock" simulator. I would maybe make it slow you down just a touch for like less than a second, just like you said. I wouldn't touch stamina when getting shot. Empty stamina in open field or on the street is almost guaranteed death, can't run away, can't aim because of sway.

I also agree with zig zagging, that stuff needs to be dialed down, make lightweight loadouts actually worthwhile by having better base running speed (current running speed is fine) than a triple carry plate carrier field backpack hoarder, and better stamina regen speed (having too much stuff on you should slow you down by like 10-30% at most, weight also applies to the character inertia, and zig zagging - but even on full stamina, zig zagging should still be worse than it is now, and it should be even worse when fully decked out).

Edited April 3, 2021 by DefectiveWater

[DefectiveWater 491]

Something occurred to me,  the Scout spawns at PD, and Police car crashes? if so, how does one find ammo for it? unless they changed CLE a bit, 5.56 doesn't spawn anywhere but military locations.
So you will find a gun in PD (assuming it spawns in PD), and have to carry it all the way to a military base? idk

Edited April 3, 2021 by DefectiveWater

[Guest]

So judging from wobo's "damage changes" video, its either a 1 shot kill or 1 shot knockout, if they're wearing ballistic gear, for all the top tier ammunition except 9x39 and 5.45x39, thats terrible, the best thing about gunfights is the intensity but getting 1 shot all the time has no intensity, its just boring and removes any outplay potential, it really does become who sees who first.

Even if you are not 1 shot killed/knockout the stun makes it a free kill for any automatic/semi-auto weapon anyway, so it might aswell be a 1 shot kill. Plus there is no point in choosing between weapons if they all 1 shot kill/knockout/stun and then kill.

It doesn't matter if it's "realistic" or not because it's bad gameplay, simple as that. Whats the point of spending hours going on a journey just to get 1 shot without any real combat interaction, you're just dead or knocked out just to be killed anyway. It will lose the heart racing moments you love in dayz.

When i saw you were re-balacing the ammunition, i assumed it was to decrease the amount of 1 shot deaths to add more intensity to the combat, clearly i was wrong. I've loved this game since release, it's the game that got me into gaming and it's never been in a better state than right now, but if this is the direction you want to take with pvp, alot of players will be leaving.

PS Im referring to 1 shot/knockouts to the upper/lower chest, getting 1 shot by .308 and 7.62x54 with ballistic protection to the head is perfectly fine gameplay because you know its deserved and actually respect the shooter for hitting the shot. Also, if you guys are adament on having the stun mechanic, just make it a headshot only thing at the very least, its a stupid mechanic for pvp. Its a good PVE mechanic though so good job with the zombie stun i guess, but now the zombies are tanks???? Whats that about.

Edited April 3, 2021 by Guest

[Homeschooliazon 87]

38 minutes ago, Tonyeh said:

I see they nerfed the crap out of the .357 to a stupid level. 

It went from a 1 hit kill to a 2 hit kill that staggers enemies on every shot (to the chest)

 

[DefectiveWater 491]

5 minutes ago, Homeschooliazon said:

It went from a 1 hit kill to a 2 hit kill that staggers enemies on every shot (to the chest)

 

And that's how it should be (damage wise), it made no sense to me that .357 could 2 tap players with a plate carrier when even AK or M4 couldn't. Well deserved nerf.

The stun part... I already commented too many times, but TLDR: pls no stun, thank you (or only on .308 and 7.62x54mmr and rubber slugs).

Edited April 3, 2021 by DefectiveWater

[Derleth 1352]

2 hours ago, Buakaw said:

I just don't think so at all for reasons given above and I am willing to bet the second you will get stunned by an SKS from a guy sitting in some corner you will change your mind. It makes camping or holding even stronger and it removes all counterplay to it. There is nothing good about this at all, or about the massively increased damage values on smaller calibers. I can get behind a 308 oneshotting in most cases, but not AR calibers. On top bullets once again are easier to land due to reduced air friction.

This patch so far really just dumbs down gameplay. If you want to mix up or make PVP more interesting, start by removing the limitless 0 inertia zig zagging and do a more considerate balance of ballistics and melee weapons. Having a fully automatic rilfe that is theoritcally capable of killing 60 players with 1 mag, has high velocity, low recoil and which also stuns players if it didn't kill them doesn't just sound overpowered on paper.

Stunning or slowing down is not completely without merit per sey, but not to the extent it's happening in 1.12 atm. A brief slow down or running speed debuff or reduction of stamina would do. But being completely unable to move, locked in an animation for a second? If there is one thing Dayz definitely did not need it's more locked animations.

It can definitely be tweaked - they should work with stamina, inertia and sway a lot more to make arcadey running and gunning less optimal. As for the damage and air friction values, I'm with Gews there, all the way.

[Tonyeh 444]

This patch is going to be weird.

But I like the idea of shock damage done by ammo, because NOBODY should be running off with bullets pumped into them. Not even .22's. Now how that plays out in normal session of DayZ remains to be seen. But at the moment, that's what regularly happens. You can hit players several times and they just run away to bandage themselves. I've done it myself. And that's a load of bollocks.

As for "who sees who first", the combat was nearly always like that anyway, so I don't see any real changes there.

But if I had my way, I would have INCREASED the damage done by all of the lower calibers.

Edited April 3, 2021 by Tonyeh

[Widowmak3r1989 2]

50 minutes ago, DefectiveWater said:

Something occurred to me,  the Scout spawns at PD, and Police car crashes? if so, how does one find ammo for it? unless they changed CLE a bit, 5.56 doesn't spawn anywhere but military locations.
So you will find a gun in PD (assuming it spawns in PD), and have to carry it all the way to a military base? idk

I was on the Xbox experimental servers last night and went into the police station at Grishno and found a box of 5.56 on the floor and found loose 5.56 in a police jacket that was also on the floor. I hope this helps with your question

[DefectiveWater 491]

1 minute ago, Widowmak3r1989 said:

I was on the Xbox experimental servers last night and went into the police station at Grishno and found a box of 5.56 on the floor and found loose 5.56 in a police jacket that was also on the floor. I hope this helps with your question

Yeah, that's what I wanted to know. Thanks, very cool, PDs might become worthwhile. Tier 3 PDs should spawn something other than skorpions lol.

I saw a YouTube comment that Scout should get a mildot scope, and that's a good idea. While adding mildot scope, that's a good chance for a military grade sniper rifle (bolt action, mag fed) that takes NATO sights (and that suggested mildot sight)
I know LAR exists, but that's not exactly a sniper rifle, serves a very similar purpose though, but I like variety (civilian 5.56 semi-auto rifle would be cool too, should spawn at hunting areas or high tier towns, should be pretty darn rare).

[Derleth 1352]

14 minutes ago, DefectiveWater said:

Yeah, that's what I wanted to know. Thanks, very cool, PDs might become worthwhile. Tier 3 PDs should spawn something other than skorpions lol.

I saw a YouTube comment that Scout should get a mildot scope, and that's a good idea. While adding mildot scope, that's a good chance for a military grade sniper rifle (bolt action, mag fed) that takes NATO sights (and that suggested mildot sight)
I know LAR exists, but that's not exactly a sniper rifle, serves a very similar purpose though, but I like variety (civilian 5.56 semi-auto rifle would be cool too, should spawn at hunting areas or high tier towns, should be pretty darn rare).

Police zombies also drop 5.56 ammo now, I even got a box from one.

[JoeyB123 6]

If the devs watch this. I beg of you let shelters be constructed under watchtowers again. That is all 

[William Sternritter 441]

10 hours ago, DefectiveWater said:

Something occurred to me,  the Scout spawns at PD, and Police car crashes? 

Yep, and to complete the trifecta, I got a Scout mag from a police infected.

Shame the three of us never met on one server 😄

[cookoff013 27]

i would prefer firearms have the real values. just makes it worth while. they are supposed to be uber efficient at transferring energy in to anything they hit. even a crappy .22lr.
automatic firearms are always going to be better at any pvp / pve / pv anything. its because they just fire more shots, they do it way more efficiently. 
i doubt anyone would be walking off / running off after getting shot with anything. even .22lr would ruin someones day, 
7.62x 39 is an awsome round and should be really lethal, as with 762x54r and .308win, they are really powerful. the 7.62x 39 should be less powerful than the aforementioned. 
the .357M is a wonderful caliber, but the problem with it is, it has 2 sets of ballistics from pistols and the carbine. 

i dont know, how this patch will fair, but guns have always been extremely efficient at what they do,