Experimental Update 1.12 (Changelog)

[Kaliber22 1]

 Nice Easteregg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=op5q39ljWvA

Edited April 1, 2021 by Kaliber22

[Derleth 1357]

1 hour ago, Alexander “Ingal” Inghamn said:

Well sure. But hoards of zombies will never happen, so what they need to do is make them harder... I think if there was infected humans with some "rage" virus, you could get pretty banged up by an infected human with no apparent fear of getting hurt themselves. Yeah, they need to be able to climb cars.. Or climb anything you can really.

After giving the patch 2-3 hours I can say that the changes to infected are very interesting. They are definitely more alert, running around houses opening doors will attract any zeds outside. And the fact they don't stagger as easily from melee attacks means they will get more hits through on you, and many of those hits result in bleeds, so I've been spending 2 out of 3 hours with the world in black & white... Granted I haven't found anything better to smack them with than a machete during that time.

All in all the changes promote more care and stealth around infected which is a good thing, people running around and shooting carelessly in infested towns will definitely learn the difference. But I do think the nerf to the infected "aggro scream" range needs to be undone, or the overall effects of the changes will be minor - due to the feeble zombie density on official servers.

The new foods are welcome, the old beans/peaches were getting tiresome. I didn't fire a single round from a firearm so those changes I need more time online to get a feel for.

Edited April 1, 2021 by Derleth

[-Gews- 7443]

4 hours ago, Buakaw said:

paging @-Gews- for the obligatory analysis of the weapon/ammo changes 🙏

 

Sounds like some balancing at work, and I mean the type that ignores authenticity... let's see... not sure why pistols and sawed off weapons needed more precision, and assault rifles need less. I thought assault rifles and pistols were alright, values for specific weapons could be mixed around but the levels of accuracy for classes of weapons in general were acceptably realistic.

I hope this doesn't go back to old DayZ where the M4A1 had literally musket-level accuracy. Or the alternative where a Mosin becomes a precision sniper (Mosin needs no accuracy buff).

Stable branch (IIRC)

AKM = 4 MOA
M4A1 = 4.1 MOA
Mosin+PU = 3.1 MOA
Most pistols in the game are around 5-1/2 inches at 25 yards, it varies from 8 inches for the Magnum to 3.6 for the Desert Eagle.

 

On 3/31/2021 at 1:14 PM, Kyiara said:

• The friction of bullets has been increased to make the difference between ammunition types more visible
• Increased the precision of pistols, sawed-off rifles, bolt action rifles, hunting, and sniper rifles
• Decreased the precision of assault rifles

In terms of airFriction I read a couple, and the numbers are WAY OFF, I see they are all screwed up again,  there is no realism here anymore. airFrictions are pulled out of a hat like a rabbit, instead of based on ballistics tables... so trajectory and time of flight of the bullets will be nonsense, as well as damage dropoffs which is linked, and on top of that, the damage drops start at somewhat different arbitrary points for various ammo types, instead of being based on the bullet's velocity dropoff (ie, randomness instead of having partly real life basis).

It's really bad.

So you can see how off the numbers are in new patch, here are some "report cards" for select rounds in various DayZ patches compared to realistic values for these rounds.

Within 10%of realistic = green
Within 15% of realistic = yellow
Within 25% of realistic = orange
Over 25% wrong = red
Over 50% wrong = DEEP RED (clown hours, should not happen)

Patch 0.54 (years ago!)



Now Patch 1.05:



And here is the new Patch 1.12:







It's like they took the numbers they just calculated a few patches ago from ballistics tables, threw them all out, and replaced with random numbers from someone's head, "I'll give this one a 7, this one I'm feeling maybe a 4, how about a 4 for you, we'll make some happy little 4s, how about a 8.5 for this one, la la". WTF.

Like a 5.45 has higher airFriction (worse velocity drop) than 7.62x39. A joke, it's the opposite. Which one looks more aerodynamic to you?


Just random.
A .308 now has an airFriction like a .408 CheyTac:

DayZ .308 = -0.00045
ARMA 3 .408 LRR = -0.00048
realistic value = -0.00047

LOL.

It's the worst state for the ballistics since they calculated them wrong back in 0.63 and had numbers many times lower or higher than they should be. WTF.

I kind of lost track of the other patch notes after digging through these values... probably just as bad. I will assume these new airFrictions are incorrectly calculated and report it on the feedback tracker.

[-Gews- 7443]

If my math is right it seems like at 400m, a 5.56 will now do 2.5 times the damage of a 5.45x39.

2.5x the damage, from similarly sized rounds with similar performance. In real life it's only maybe 2-10% more at that range, depending on ammo.

(above 5.45, below 5.56)


 

[-Gews- 7443]

I wonder if it's an April Fool's joke. On a bright side I checked a couple weapons' accuracy changes and nothing really drastic like old alpha dispersion, the M4 and the AKM get 40% more dispersion but it's still under 6 MOA on both with stock furniture, Mosin stays the same, and Winchester gets a lot more accurate at 1.7 MOA vs the 3.4 MOA it used to have (unscoped, same as Mosin). With hunting scope shrinking that by 50%, Winchester should be sub-MOA.

[DefectiveWater 534]

I know nothing about bullet ballistics, but all I can say is that having real numbers would probably be the best choice. I assume that all this is still work in progress and there will be changes.
I saw a clip of M4 literally one-shotting target dummies to the chest, and to me that is not the state that this patch should be put to stable, but this is what experimental is for. 

I thought that M4 should be baseline for damage in terms of ARs if certain numbers need to be transferred from reality (there are no hit points IRL) to the game.

Oh... and since we are balancing gun damage and other details that I don't understand, why not make rate of fire the way they should be?

M4 (wikipedia says 700-950 RPM IRL, but 600 in-game) in DayZ fires just as fast as the AK (wikipedia says 600, in-game its 600), which shouldn't be.
There are probably more guns with wrong RPM, so those should get checked too, in my opinion. Higher rate of fire will result in higher recoil too, probably.

So with all of that said, in my opinion, majority of stats should be based on reality, but some stats should be balanced for gameplay.

Edited April 2, 2021 by DefectiveWater

[-Gews- 7443]

24 minutes ago, DefectiveWater said:

I know nothing about bullet ballistics, but all I can say is that having real numbers would probably be the best choice. I assume that all this is still work in progress and there will be changes.
I saw a clip of M4 literally one-shotting target dummies to the chest, and to me that is not the state that this patch should be put to stable, but this is what experimental is for. 

I thought that M4 should be baseline for damage in terms of ARs if certain numbers need to be transferred from reality (there are no hit points IRL) to the game.

Oh... and since we are balancing gun damage and other details that I don't understand, why not make rate of fire the way they should be?

M4 (wikipedia says 700-950 RPM IRL, but 600 in-game) in DayZ fires just as fast as the AK (wikipedia says 600, in-game its 600), which shouldn't be.
There are probably more guns with wrong RPM, so those should get checked too, in my opinion. Higher rate of fire will result in higher recoil too, probably.

So with all of that said, in my opinion, majority of stats should be based on reality, but some stats should be balanced for gameplay.

There is an error with the rate of fire configuration on the vanilla weapons, all the weapons fire at 600 rpm maximum. In the config it's set to different speeds, MP5K is set at 900 rpm for example, but it still fires only 600 rpm in game.

However when I make my own weapons it fires the correct speeds, so it would be an easy fix for the devs.

On a related note, when making some alterations to rate of fire I encountered another bug which is more problematic, I can't make a weapon fire faster than about 900 rpm, except if I want 1800 rpm. So last time I checked you can make anything 0-900 rpm, and you can make 1800 rpm, and that's it.
 

 

[Homeschooliazon 87]

Please don't tell me the peeled potatoes and the broom are an april fools joke, i actually like those.

[Buakaw 274]

1 hour ago, -Gews- said:

There is an error with the rate of fire configuration on the vanilla weapons, all the weapons fire at 600 rpm maximum. In the config it's set to different speeds, MP5K is set at 900 rpm for example, but it still fires only 600 rpm in game.

However when I make my own weapons it fires the correct speeds, so it would be an easy fix for the devs.

On a related note, when making some alterations to rate of fire I encountered another bug which is more problematic, I can't make a weapon fire faster than about 900 rpm, except if I want 1800 rpm. So last time I checked you can make anything 0-900 rpm, and you can make 1800 rpm, and that's it.
 

 

Very interesting. Does this apply to current stable vanilla and modded weapons as well, you think?

I honestly think you should give modding weapons a go, your mod pack would be the highest quality weaponry in all of Dayz I am sure.

Great indepth comments as usual.

 

On a second note, did anything change about damage? WOBO reported 556 oneshotting players and zombies from a scout on EXP, that would imply a rather big damage boost if I am not mistaken.

 

[-Gews- 7443]

14 minutes ago, Buakaw said:

Very interesting. Does this apply to current stable vanilla and modded weapons as well, you think?

I honestly think you should give modding weapons a go, your mod pack would be the highest quality weaponry in all of Dayz I am sure.

Great indepth comments as usual.

 

On a second note, did anything change about damage? WOBO reported 556 oneshotting players and zombies from a scout on EXP, that would imply a rather big damage boost if I am not mistaken.

I didn't test it since then, I assume it's the same as the ticket was not responded to. I would like to mod a few weapons but I lacking in time and skills. Also unable to create any animations for weapons, as far as I know no one has a mod with any new weapon animations on the workshop, it's all recycled vanilla animations.

The damage is much increased on many rounds, here's some off the top of my head:

9mm: 35
45 ACP: 35
357 Magnum: 55
5.45x39: 75
5.56x45: 100
7.62x39: 100
308 Win: 170
7.62x54R: 170

So 5.56 would one-shot at closer ranges. They also have greater differences in shock, the .45 has the same damage as 9mm but more shock to knock out faster.

Edited April 2, 2021 by -Gews-

[wh1skey_ 111]

12 hours ago, Derleth said:

One very nasty new bug with 1.12 is that when joining an Exp server via the launcher you'll get a rubber band effect on the mouse cursor so you can't click the Battleye terms thing. I managed to circumvent this by bypassing the launcher, change resolution and join the server via the in-game server browser. Probably an issue you'll only get on some systems, but worth looking into. I was about to smash things here...

Yo this is seriously pissing me off! I can’t figure out how to get around it. I’ll try tomorrow I guess. 

[Kathosky 119]

Well thank you @-Gews- for all the ballistics science research. I am very disapointed with the ballistics change, the values should be as close to reallity as posible; velocity, air friction, so damage... looks that the devs are making the opposite using with random numbers.

In other hand, not being able to eat the potato without being peeled is non sense. Imagine diying of starvation with one or two potatoes in your inventory that you are not able to eat. The solution would be to make a little disadvantage when eating non peeled potatoes, for example, less nutrition value, or chance of throwing up... in the apocalypse I would even eat an orange/melon/watermelon... with the peel and everything 😅

Come on devs, @Kyiara @ImpulZ there are good things in the update but these others... don't make sense. Explain them or change them back before pushing to stable.

[tomusgilbert 9]

12 hours ago, Derleth said:

After giving the patch 2-3 hours I can say that the changes to infected are very interesting. They are definitely more alert, running around houses opening doors will attract any zeds outside. And the fact they don't stagger as easily from melee attacks means they will get more hits through on you, and many of those hits result in bleeds, so I've been spending 2 out of 3 hours with the world in black & white... Granted I haven't found anything better to smack them with than a machete during that time.

All in all the changes promote more care and stealth around infected which is a good thing, people running around and shooting carelessly in infested towns will definitely learn the difference. But I do think the nerf to the infected "aggro scream" range needs to be undone, or the overall effects of the changes will be minor - due to the feeble zombie density on official servers.

The new foods are welcome, the old beans/peaches were getting tiresome. I didn't fire a single round from a firearm so those changes I need more time online to get a feel for.

This will probably be quite unpopular but the biggest problem I see with the new zombies is the fact that they only knock you out and not finish you off. Now all you need to do is be careless enough to get knocked out, wait 1 minute and then proceed to do whatever you were doing before, albeit a bit roughed up. It makes it so unlikely that zombies will actually kill you that the threat they pose now is near obsolete. Zombies might have been frustrating before when you get knocked out and slowly die, but do we really prefer zombies that can't kill us? Seems like zombies will just become a mild inconvenience once again... I think they should revert their changes on this and the "agro scream" range nerf. Maybe reduce the chance of being knocked out by zombies instead?

[Josh Coppin 0]

Can we have a block for the interact button upon login. Even if its just for 5-10 seconds. This will stop people being able to drop gear and glitch out to dupe. 

 

Update is looking good though 👌 

[Derleth 1357]

4 hours ago, Kathosky said:

.In other hand, not being able to eat the potato without being peeled is non sense. Imagine diying of starvation with one or two potatoes in your Come on devs, @Kyiara @ImpulZ there are good things in the update but these others... don't make sense. Explain them or change them back before pushing to stable.

I agree 100%. Overall 1.12 is shaping up to be a great update, but any changes to ballistics that deviate from realism should NEVER be allowed to go live. If you need to balance pvp work with health, reintroduce vital organs in the torso, hit zones, (make the face have one!) shock needed for uncon and duration of uncon etc.This is a major step in the wrong direction, please reconsider.

As for the potatoes this is how it should work:

Clean or peel to eat safely, eat dirty and risk food poisoning. Simple.

I assure you I’ll eat a dirty tater raw with peel and everything if desperate enough..

 

[helpthedeadwalk 179]

17 hours ago, 'AZAZEL' said:

Meh ... rather minor fixes and QoL changes for me, since I already play on a community server where 90% of the stuff is already in game and/or fixed in some capacity.

When are we going to see changes that are not already done by either the modding community or server owners like years ago?

you're forgetting that there is a large portion of players, especially newer players, that are on console and don't have mods.

[Masgel 48]

I wonder if we'll be able to make makeshift suppressors out of old cans as well at some point, regarding the focus on stealth elements...
And, for the topic of whine-meta, bows as well.

Edited April 2, 2021 by Masgel
Addon.

[Joe Scrub 37]

@Kyiara @ImpulZ
 

On 3/31/2021 at 9:14 PM, Kyiara said:

Increased the damage of most tools to be more efficient than fists in combat

What do you mean by this? As far as we can tell melee damage on almost every tool has been LOWERED drastically from 1.11 and is lower even than previously in 1.10, melee tools from knives all the way up to axes and sledgehammers have been SIGNIFICANTLY reduced which is going to have a big impact on both melee combat and base raiding. Ticket with more specifics to follow, but is this intentional?
 

On 3/31/2021 at 9:14 PM, Kyiara said:

Infected are now tougher in combat

It seems as though making the infected tougher in combat has been achieved by making the MELEE WEAPONS WEAKER instead of the INFECTED TOUGHER, is this intentional?

The big nerf to melee damage along with the removal of the stunlock to zombies and the ability for their hits on the player to cancel the player's current attack animation has made it significantly more difficult to kill infected during melee combat, as said tickets with videos and numbers to follow for more details but raising it here to begin with to find out what was intentional.

Edited April 2, 2021 by Joe Scrub

[KommanderWar-94971bcb672f9055 26]

Does the Easter egg EASTEREGG have to do with the Morse code that is appearing on the radio at 9 pm? on a server pve that game people were talking about it, I didn't get to hear it but I helped to try to find out something

[Joe Scrub 37]

Melee weapons are really weak now:

 

[Jonoats 27]

Needing to peel potatoes before eating them is retarded.  Most of the nutrition from a potato comes from the skin.  Other then that, happy to see an update being tested so soon.  I love the fact you guys fixed the whole car battery going dead from starting the vehicle but not recharging while in a running vehicle.  Also love how the vehicle attachments can now be locked on by using the proper tool.  Seems like Gews already chewed your asses out for fucking with the ballistics so I'll hold my tongue.  However I did go for quite the wild flight test in one of the trucks in this 1.11 patch and it would be nice if you guys could get them to stop flying around, it's funny but it's not that funny.  Cheers.

[Homeschooliazon 87]

I got shot by some pistol yesterday and it made me stagger, very cool! Staggering by guns was already in the game but incredibly rare, i like this change.

[Buakaw 274]

14 hours ago, -Gews- said:

I didn't test it since then, I assume it's the same as the ticket was not responded to. I would like to mod a few weapons but I lacking in time and skills. Also unable to create any animations for weapons, as far as I know no one has a mod with any new weapon animations on the workshop, it's all recycled vanilla animations.

I feel like if you did it like everyone else: buy some cheap gun model, cheap sound effect and vanilla animations but then tweaked the gun stats properly, the end result would still be the best mod pack.

You could also do an ammo rebalance mod that changes all the values of vanilla ammo to something that makes more sense.

There might be a market for that next patch, seeing what you told us so far.

Of course I am just throwing that out there out of pure self-interest. But the community would definitely benefit from that as a whole and a mod like that might get adopted by a lot of community servers.

Edited April 2, 2021 by Buakaw

[Joe Scrub 37]

Some tickets that might want to be reviewed whilst this update is still in experimental:

1.12 Exp issues:
Infected are MUCH tougher in melee combat, this may need tweaking - https://feedback.bistudio.com/T157619
No sound effect for stealth kills on infected - https://feedback.bistudio.com/T157618

1.11 / older issues:
Free looking whilst hitting with melee changes the point of impact - https://feedback.bistudio.com/T157624
Heavy attack stun chains do not work on infected - https://feedback.bistudio.com/T157621
Heavy attacks stun infected back too far - https://feedback.bistudio.com/T157622
Infected are difficult to hit due to their animations/hitbox & them cancelling player attacks - https://feedback.bistudio.com/T157623

Edited April 2, 2021 by Joe Scrub

[Derleth 1357]

1 hour ago, Buakaw said:

You could also do an ammo rebalance mod that changes all the values of vanilla ammo to something that makes more sense.

There might be a market for that next patch, seeing what you told us so far.

I'd use that mod. I don't give a bloody toss about "pvp balance", I want ballistics to be realistic. If that means there is no discernable in-game difference between how many 5.45, 5.56 or 7.62x39 you need to get a kill is not something that should matter one wee bit. This is not fecking call of doody, it's DayZ - it's supposed to be gritty and authentic. Not cartoony bloody fortnite level pewpew.

Edit: A bullet rebalance mod is pretty easy to make iirc (there have been a few already and I made one myself to make .22 headshots instakill zombies) - if I someone was to supply me with the proper values I'm pretty sure I could do it myself. If not I'd find out what I need to...

Edited April 2, 2021 by Derleth