A message for those who play 3rd person servers

[awalsh47 200]

Seriously.

It's a hardcore survival game. 

Peaking around corners should never be a legitimate strategy so grow some pubes, scratch your hairy balls with authority and be real men.

Play HC servers and don't be corner peaking girliemen.

Everyone who plays 3rd person you might as well tuck your private parts under your abdomen and flash your MANGINAS at the mirror.

Go HC or go home

 

 

[DayzDayzFanboy 1280]

Surely people can choose to play whichever way they want? 

[nikoor 180]

I'd like to see more populated HC server in Europe so yeah grow some balls peeps don't always go where the fence is lowest! If the players that have left don't come back after the next update BI should consider reducing the server numbers on Europe at least. Definitely take one of the HC servers down on the next wipe.

[DayzDayzFanboy 1280]

I play hardcore servers occasionally but I don't think it makes your balls any bigger! When I'm on regular servers I often still play on first person, but when I'm running distances I like to see my dude, simple as that. All the rest is macho bull shit. 

[aux7 234]

13 minutes ago, nikoor said:

I'd like to see more populated HC server in Europe so yeah grow some balls peeps don't always go where the fence is lowest! If the players that have left don't come back after the next update BI should consider reducing the server numbers on Europe at least. Definitely take one of the HC servers down on the next wipe.

looking at the player numbers dropping, especially since Apex legends hit  . . .  I would suggest its inevitable.

[pilgrim* 3514]

1 hour ago, DayzDayzFanboy said:

I play hardcore servers occasionally but I don't think it makes your balls any bigger! When I'm on regular servers I often still play on first person, but when I'm running distances I like to see my dude, simple as that.

Yes - I only played 3p for a long while - years ago - because I though 1p was too constrained and gave you an UNREALISTIC field of view. In real life if I stretch my arms out sideways horizontally from my body, I can see both hands in the corners of my vision when I am looking straight ahead - so that is REAL battlefield vision/awareness (about 170+ degrees) , and 1pp is nothing like that. 1pp is like having your head in a cardboard box with only vision through a 30° slot, max. No one would go into combat wearing a box like that. Also the lack of useful directional sound, and skin feeling, and sensing the weight on your feet, smell, etc - the whole BODY sense experience .. all the real human indicators that we use in movement and situation-awareness, are absent in DayZ. So I believe 1pp is NOT more realistic than 3pp.

BUT - bit by bit I have found myself playing more 1pp and less 3pp. I really don't know why.. perhaps because it is more exciting and it forces you to take more care and GAIN situational awareness, even though it is a handicap to realistic awareness, and nothing like being in a real environment.

So I often log in, in 1pp mode, and not notice what kind of server I'm playing until I (as @DDFanboy says) I want to SEE my character, maybe for some ingame reason, maybe to take a screenshot, maybe because I get sudden paranoia, I want to move through forest easily, or I want to check if I am well hidden .. then I find out if I'm playing on a HC server or 3pp server.   I really don't know why Ive shifted more and more to App (the change just happened without me noticing)  - NOT because of "realism" - maybe just because I know DayZ well and know the terrain and know all the obvious things NOT to do, and who might be peeking from where, and it gives me a kick now to "handicap" myself.. more immediacy or something?  I just fell into it for no particular reason. But I have nothing against 3pp and - all things considered - I think 3pp is probably more "realistic" than 1pp, given the size and view angle of your oblong flat (fake 3D) LIMITED screen. When you are looking at your screen you CAN see HALF your room around the screen, right? So all that real human vision is WASTED and not used in the DayZ 1pp game.
But 3pp has peeking, so the "faults" of each mode kind of even out.

If someone IRL is on the other side of a wall, close hidden, or round a corner, you can often hear them or be "aware of them" or "expect them" in real life (sixth sense? creepy awareness of danger? experience? inner warning voice? sense of wrongness? )  - but NOT in DayZ, not onscreen  ..  but you can explain away "peeking" in 3pp as someone getting the drop on you, just because they were more alert or sharper or cleverer or set you up  (and in the game parameters in 3pp that IS kind of TRUE, aint it? ) .. SO : If you HATE that, then ONLY play 1pp.  If you LOVE that, then ONLY play 3pp -  where you know it's fair because anyone/everyone could be doing it.

Both styles work out fair.

It's like "keyboard or controller" for Xbox.. if keyboards were truly BETTER for EVERYTHING - then Xbox would have had keyboards from the start?  Hmm ?

Whatever floats your boat. Try both.

Edited March 2, 2019 by pilgrim*

[gambla 118]

another random hardcore dude, not using the search function to find a million threads about this topic, - everyone is free to play how he likes and there already are 1pp servers, end of story

[nikoor 180]

What I'm saying 1PP is more realistic than 3PP and that's a fact, no one can deny that. Not even you pilgrim, unless you're out of your body, near death, all the time. OBE. Everyone can play what ever they want, sure. I want more realism and that's why I stay on HC servers but I hate the fact people doesn't play it because it's not as fun and easy as 3PP, but more skill based (situational awareness). 

[DayzDayzFanboy 1280]

I agree with pilgrim in that the field of view in 1pp is totally unrealistic. If you could widen the field of view it would be a truer representation. 3pp isn't necessarily easier though. If you think about it, other players using peeking have an advantage which makes it harder for players. Both styles have their pros and cons. I find looting and combat easier in 1pp, but I enjoy rolling around in 3pp. 

[aux7 234]

In a word, field of view is better in 3pp . . . when running in 1pp with a big back pack you cannot see behind you so well

saying that, I am currently on a 1PP server . ..

 

Edited March 2, 2019 by aux7

[Parazight 1599]

13 hours ago, awalsh47 said:

Seriously....

Adorable.  Like a puppy with a sweater on it.

And seriously, it should take months for crops to grow in-game.  And how come we can't smell things?  We should be able to use all of our senses.

Edited March 2, 2019 by Parazight

[gambla 118]

"hardcore":

- being able to jog around for ages with like 50 kgs of gear

- zigzagging to dodge bullets with like 50 kgs of gear

- getting shot, still being able to run away (often, not always)

- getting shot, losing lots of blood, just bandaging, waiting for some minutes = back at full health

Seriously...

 

 

Edited March 2, 2019 by gambla

[lex__1 168]

33 minutes ago, gambla said:

"hardcore":

- being able to jog around for ages with like 50 kgs of gear

- zigzagging to dodge bullets with like 50 kgs of gear

- getting shot, still being able to run away (often, not always)

- getting shot, loosing lots of blood, just bandaging, waiting for some minutes = back at full health

Seriously... 

  

 

- After death to appear with new forces ashore
Jokes proceed....

 

[awalsh47 200]

I was so drunk creating this post!

Still stand over it though. Fed up seeing YouTube videos where upon contact the first instinct  of 3rd person players is to position themselves behind a wall and frantically peak over it.

 

[pilgrim* 3514]

On 3/2/2019 at 12:24 PM, nikoor said:

What I'm saying 1PP is more realistic than 3PP and that's a fact, no one can deny that. Not even you pilgrim, unless you're out of your body, near death, all the time. OBE. Everyone can play what ever they want, sure. I want more realism and that's why I stay on HC servers but I hate the fact people doesn't play it because it's not as fun and easy as 3PP, but more skill based (situational awareness). 

er.. YES I'm called Pilgrim.. and YES I just DID DENY THAT  .. so you got half your post wrong just to start. Please stop ranting.
I'm not going to go into all the pros and cons of 1pp-3pp because it's been done here on this forum 1000 times - go read up, but let's not start all this CRUD again. So you have a HOLY VISION and everyone else is wrong.. GOOD, dude - lucky for you there ARE 1pp servers. Go PLAY. (you might meet me there, I play them too).

Arguing with 1pp fanatics is like arguing with total religious fanatics - everyone knows they are CRAZY except THEM

1pp is NOT more realistic.  Both options have problems - different problems for each option - and the problems take realism & immersion AWAY from 1pp AND from 3pp - they are just DIFFERENT problems. There are a couple of hundred of comments going back YEARS arguing the pros and cons. But the lunatic illuminated fanatic religious 1pp players have the voice of GOD talking to them, there is nothing to be done about them. I think they were dropped on their heads when they were babies?

Sure - 1pp freaks would LIKE 1pp to be "more realistic" - they would LOVE that. I think that's what they are trying to say - but unfortunately IT IS NOT. - that's where their brains jam up.

Cut an oblong slot in a cardboard box -  give yourself about 20° of vision, and about 5° of vertical vision .. - put the box ON your head - run around your neighborhood and try to ACT NORMAL. Take care crossing the street now!  Have fun in the Supermarket or at a party!  Remember you can't move your eyeballs to see left or right!
And REALLY don't go on any battlefields!

Try it IRL - then tell us how REALISTIC it feels ?

<good grief>

Edited March 3, 2019 by pilgrim*

[pilgrim* 3514]

18 hours ago, lex__1 said:

- After death to appear with new forces ashore
Jokes proceed....

 

is almost that a Haiku ?

[bandito6000 175]

30 minutes ago, pilgrim* said:

er.. YES I'm called Pilgrim.. and YES I just DID DENY THAT  .. so you got half your post wrong just to start. Please stop ranting.
I'm not going to go into all the pros and cons of 1pp-3pp because it's been done here on this forum 1000 times - go read up, but let's not start all this CRUD again. So you have a HOLY VISION and everyone else is wrong.. GOOD, dude - lucky for you there ARE 1pp servers. Go PLAY. (you might meet me there, I play them too).

Arguing with 1pp fanatics is like arguing with total religious fanatics - everyone knows they are CRAZY except THEM

1pp is NOT more realistic.  Both options have problems - different problems for each option - and the problems take realism & immersion AWAY from 1pp AND from 3pp - they are just DIFFERENT problems. There are a couple of hundred of comments going back YEARS arguing the pros and cons. But the lunatic illuminated fanatic religious 1pp players have the voice of GOD talking to them, there is nothing to be done about them. I think they were dropped on their heads when they were babies?

Sure - 1pp freaks would LIKE 1pp to be "more realistic" - they would LOVE that. I think that's what they are trying to say - but unfortunately IT IS NOT. - that's where their brains jam up.

Cut an oblong slot in a cardboard box -  give yourself about 20° of vision, and about 5° of vertical vision .. - put the box ON your head - run around your neighborhood and try to ACT NORMAL. Take care crossing the street now!  Have fun in the Supermarket or at a party!  Remember you can't move your eyeballs to see left or right!
And REALLY don't go on any battlefields!

Try it IRL - then tell us how REALISTIC it feels ?

<good grief>

What in gods name are you on about? Lol

[nikoor 180]

2 hours ago, pilgrim* said:

er.. YES I'm called Pilgrim.. and YES I just DID DENY THAT  .. so you got half your post wrong just to start. Please stop ranting.
I'm not going to go into all the pros and cons of 1pp-3pp because it's been done here on this forum 1000 times - go read up, but let's not start all this CRUD again. So you have a HOLY VISION and everyone else is wrong.. GOOD, dude - lucky for you there ARE 1pp servers. Go PLAY. (you might meet me there, I play them too).

Arguing with 1pp fanatics is like arguing with total religious fanatics - everyone knows they are CRAZY except THEM

1pp is NOT more realistic.  Both options have problems - different problems for each option - and the problems take realism & immersion AWAY from 1pp AND from 3pp - they are just DIFFERENT problems. There are a couple of hundred of comments going back YEARS arguing the pros and cons. But the lunatic illuminated fanatic religious 1pp players have the voice of GOD talking to them, there is nothing to be done about them. I think they were dropped on their heads when they were babies?

Sure - 1pp freaks would LIKE 1pp to be "more realistic" - they would LOVE that. I think that's what they are trying to say - but unfortunately IT IS NOT. - that's where their brains jam up.

Cut an oblong slot in a cardboard box -  give yourself about 20° of vision, and about 5° of vertical vision .. - put the box ON your head - run around your neighborhood and try to ACT NORMAL. Take care crossing the street now!  Have fun in the Supermarket or at a party!  Remember you can't move your eyeballs to see left or right!
And REALLY don't go on any battlefields!

Try it IRL - then tell us how REALISTIC it feels ?

<good grief>

Didn't bother to read your post, only first paragraph. One thing mr. allknow pilgrim, JUST ONE THING makes 1PP more realistic and that's guess what? THE PERSPECTIVE. How hard is that to understand? Oh btw, you cant see your hands when you look straight arms streched to the sides. I feel bad I didn't mute you few months back when I realized how arrogant you are all mighty. Bye bye pilgrim, bye bye.

Edit: Couldn't help myself pil but to read the rest of it. Are you ok?

Edit: How do you mute someone pil? I'm sure you know.

Edited March 3, 2019 by nikoor

[DayzDayzFanboy 1280]

I think the point is that in 1pp the field of view is too narrow. You can see your hands in your peripheral vision of you hold your arms out. If 1pp had wider fov it would be more realistic. Aside from that though, if people want to play 3pp then what's the issue? Let them. 

[pilgrim* 3514]

3 hours ago, bandito6000 said:

What in gods name are you on about? Lol

dont get it? - read back through the 53,714 posts about "1st person" on this forum. Really, dude - Count them. Consider them. Discuss them. etc etc etc blah blah woof woof ..

1 hour ago, nikoor said:

Didn't bother to read your post, only first paragraph. One thing mr. allknow pilgrim, JUST ONE THING makes 1PP more realistic and that's guess what? THE PERSPECTIVE.

Should have read the post  - it's about fanatics who rant rubbish - you are repeating yourself now for the third time in one thread. Put your fingers in your ears and chant "1st person is REAL, 1st person is REAL, 1st person is REAL", it will help block out other points of view and save you some thinking time.  Or check the 53,741 posts on "1st person" you'll find intelligent arguments on both sides.

= I play 1st person too ,dude, and sometimes 3d person, depending how I feel.  My advice is: forget the "balls", grow some brain and try for LOGIC. Look at the reality of a fake 3D environment on a Flat Screen of strictly limited dimensions. Compare it reality, notice the differences. (WOW!)

Why have SO MANY HUNDREDS of game designers opted for a 3d person view when it is "OBVIOUSLY" so STUPIDLY unrealistic, unfair & immersion breaking?   All those Devs behind all those games must have been Soooooooo DUMB to make that DAFT mistake to WRECK their own game. Right?  And have a nice day.

p.s. Dissing is not totally the best way to get opinions heard in this DayZ forum, we generally stay (kind of) moderately friendly and we TRY to say intelligent stuff - this ain't a RUST forum.

xxp

Edited March 3, 2019 by pilgrim*

[nikoor 180]

1 hour ago, pilgrim* said:

dont get it? - read back through the 53,714 posts about "1st person" on this forum. Really, dude - Count them. Consider them. Discuss them. etc etc etc blah blah woof woof ..

Should have read the post  - it's about fanatics who rant rubbish - you are repeating yourself now for the third time in one thread. Put your fingers in your ears and chant "1st person is REAL, 1st person is REAL, 1st person is REAL", it will help block out other points of view and save you some thinking time.  Or check the 53,741 posts on "1st person" you'll find intelligent arguments on both sides.

= I play 1st person too ,dude, and sometimes 3d person, depending how I feel.  My advice is: forget the "balls", grow some brain and try for LOGIC. Look at the reality of a fake 3D environment on a Flat Screen of strictly limited dimensions. Compare it reality, notice the differences. (WOW!)

Why have SO MANY HUNDREDS of game designers opted for a 3d person view when it is "OBVIOUSLY" so STUPIDLY unrealistic, unfair & immersion breaking?   All those Devs behind all those games must have been Soooooooo DUMB to make that DAFT mistake to WRECK their own game. Right?  And have a nice day.

p.s. Dissing is not totally the best way to get opinions heard in this DayZ forum, we generally stay (kind of) moderately friendly and we TRY to say intelligent stuff - this ain't a RUST forum.

xxp

Just the kind of crap that I was expecting haha. I just can't believe how much nonsense you type maybe you should go out more and let those fingers relax. How bloody hard is it to grasp that YOU and ME and EVERYONE else on this planet explore this world from what we happen to call 1st perspective. Not 3rd. ONLY that reason is enough to back up my claim. There's no alternative. It's not about the field of view. The perspective Pil, the perspective. You see through your eyes in real life and not via a camera above you do you? Can you understand that? I mean for real, no offense, do you understand what I'm saying? Where my view is coming from?

Edited March 3, 2019 by nikoor

[DayzDayzFanboy 1280]

1 hour ago, nikoor said:

Just the kind of crap that I was expecting haha. I just can't believe how much nonsense you type maybe you should go out more and let those fingers relax. How bloody hard is it to grasp that YOU and ME and EVERYONE else on this planet explore this world from what we happen to call 1st perspective. Not 3rd. ONLY that reason is enough to back up my claim. There's no alternative. It's not about the field of view. The perspective Pil, the perspective. You see through your eyes in real life and not via a camera above you do you? Can you understand that? I mean for real, no offense, do you understand what I'm saying? Where my view is coming from?

I don't think anyone is disputing the fact that we don't have persistent out of body experience. But the field of view is different so yes, it kinda is all about fov. If the fov was increased in 1pp it would be more natural. This changes the perspective. 

[pilgrim* 3514]

1 hour ago, nikoor said:

YOU and ME and EVERYONE else on this planet explore this world from what we happen to call 1st perspective

this is true
the QUESTION is how to imitate a real life experience - how to give an immersive imitation of  HUMAN SIGHT - in a game where the experience of human sight in a 3D world is totally FALSE.

Hope you like this reply, or at least think about it - because "Realism" & "Immersion" in computer games is a FASCINATING complex subject. STUDIED totally SERIOUSLY by many game professionals, designers, and devs right now.
<here is a very SHORT answer, leaving out a LOT>

1) you cannot move your eyeballs
2 ) your horizontal field of view is limited to 20° of your Real Life filed of view, because you do NOT have a wrap-around screen covering 175° and 4-5 meters high.
3) You are watching a FLAT screen 50-120 cm in front of your eyes (ALWAYS) your focal length is immobile and always fixed - because of this you have ZERO true depth perception. You see EXACTLY the SAME thing with one eye or with 2 eyes  (a very strange experience for the human brain's profoundly instinctive range-finding, humans being a binocular race designed as hunters)
4) You have no senses of touch, of weight, of peripheral movement, of smell, or of slight but significant sounds ALWAYS present IRL. Your audition is 100% faked by the game, "background noises" are randomly generated and do not indicate environmental circumstances. There is no such thing as the "meaningful" sound of a twig snapping, or the slight sounds of an enemy in cover.  You have no IRL sense of your own body position or awareness whatever. You have no idea if you are wearing sneakers or military boots or if you are wearing a T-shirt or a 40kg berm and body armor (unless you look at your inventory) or your stamina line, you can turn around on a 60° slope to "look" and to "sneak" with 70kg on your back) .. and etc.. there are many examples or REAL LIFE sensory deprivation in any computer game. Because YOU in FACT are NOT in the game.
5) When you look at your screen, you are AWARE of all the space around it that is NOT in the game. Seeing the room around the screen that is NOT in the game and takes up much more of your vision than the game screen - is your REAL LIFE 1st person view.

So you are limited to a computer-generated simulacrum of "human eyesight" projected onto a FLAT non-3D screen of very limited dimensions.

In the same way as you READ A BOOK, you can convince yourself (if it is well made) that you are TAKING PART in the BOOK, in that 'smallish (brain activity) ' reading-bit of your awareness, and nothing else counts - you are "immersed" in a VERY artificial world. This is mainly a DELIBERATE ACTION on the part of the player, or the reader.  If "immersion" is EASY then thank the writer of that novel (or game)  - that "dev" has done good work to get you immersed.

So -FIRSTLY- The game or the book has nothing to do with reality - it PRETENDS to have something to do with reality - it uses ARTFUL TECNIQUES to convince you that you are NOT in your room, you are somewhere else. 

ONE common method for gaining a more realistic overview of the player in his environment, is to pull the camera back BEHIND the player - this gives them a MORE REALISTIC sense of the environment they are moving through = a field of view closer to the real human IRL field of view -  and it gives them a MORE REALISTIC sense of their body position in relationship to the environment. This is something the game cannot do in any other way, We don't have position and feedback sensors attached to our IRL body, all those NATURAL senses are cut off :

( at the moment I KNOW I'm sitting at a keyboard and typing - I know this for 100 reasons.. so how "immersed" am I ? I can FEEL my fingers hitting the keys, I can FEEL the boots I'm wearing. I can SEE the keyboard the mouse 3 computer screens, a wardrobe a couch the carpet 3 walls, par of the roof, in the corner of my eye a flicker was a bird flying past the window, and (blackbird) it called a warning because someone (or something) disturbed it on the path outside, so I think PROBABLY people are coming up (more likely walkers than a dog).. and - damn, I'm eating a small sandwich and listening to the PC fan hum and the clack of the keyboard )..

SO exactly HOW immersed AM I in this GAME in front of me inside this fairly SMALL FLAT back-lighted oblong ?

I'd say I'm pretty DAMN well immersed..  for immersion,  DayZ is GOOD

For some reason GAMERS often can't make this distinction .. they seem amazingly unaware of what they are REALLY doing (what is happening in their head) when they play an onscreen computer game..  they "think" they are inside the game in some way, when of course that is their deliberate voluntary hallucination .. deliberately ignore the REAL.. let's PRETEND.

Perhaps that's because humans are used to playing, and just go with the flow, they don't realise how complicated and cunning the whole setup is to give them the impression they want.

Plenty of games are strictly 1st person - Doom style
Plenty of games are strictly 3d person - Name your own
Some games give you the choice.

Saying "your screen view" (please - its a SCREEN it is NOT your 'eyeballs') - saying the screen view  MUST show what you would SEE IF your eyeballs were inside your head and you were INSIDE the game (you are not) and IF humans only had an extremely limited field of view (they don't)  .. or ELSE the game is not "realistic" .. well, that's just nonsense.

Both modes of play have PROBLEMS because both try to IMITATE "reality" in an understandable way in a completely ARTIFICIAL world. there are two "usual" ways of doing that in a DayZ style game. Both are available, pick the one that floats your boat. But PLEASE do not say one is IN FACT more realistic than the other - you are just saying you prefer one over the other - that's personal preference, you don't have to invent stone-tablet rules handed down from the One True Great Gamer in the Sky that PROVE one is more realistic..  because such a thing Really-Really does NOT exist.
If it existed ALL games would USE IT.

I'm easy with either mode. All the players on one server use the mode/modes available on THAT server, so gameplay is fair for everyone on that server.

scuse me while I eat my sandwich - I'm right now TOTALLY immersed in the game - when I actually look AT THE SCREEN I just absolutely totally believe I'M INSIDE THE SCREEN, even though there is NOT a world AT ALL inside that FLAT layer of pixels.. just some cunning artfully designed shapes and colors designed by devs - DayZ does NOT obey ANY PHYSICAL LAWS AT ALL.. it doesn't exist as I imagine it when I play (Ive finished my sandwich, still immersed).. the imaginary world obeys simplistic rules based (distantly) on the physical world TO A CERTAIN EXTENT (but not a lot) and I can PRETEND-PLAY I'm inside it (which I can NEVER be) by using my voluntary imagination and a handful or ARTFUL CUNNING fakery tricks the Devs have put there to HELP me get involved.

And KNOWING where my WHOLE BODY is when I'm running through a forest or a town is ONE OF THEM. - er - just like in real life.
Well DONE devs - nice work!

All this <technology of immersion> isn't really much to do with your EYEBALLS. In DayZ there are NO EYEBALLS. There is just a camera position.
Hey, in 1st person, have you noticed you can look down your own neck? - lol

Play how you feel.

xxp

 

 

Edited March 3, 2019 by pilgrim*

[OrLoK 16186]

3rd vs 1st is a pointless argument.

Play the game your way, theres enough servers for all.