Server hopping?

[jonhsmith111 6]

What's being done about server hopping into somebody else's base on PC ?

[drgullen 593]

I doubt anything will be done about it since it'll be a moot point in less than a week.  Once 1.0 is out, I should think nobody will be building bases on official servers.

[emuthreat 2837]

3 hours ago, drgullen said:

I doubt anything will be done about it since it'll be a moot point in less than a week.  Once 1.0 is out, I should think nobody will be building bases on official servers.

Why would you think that?

[drgullen 593]

Why would I think that?  Because why would you build a base on official servers and be subject to this issue when you can build it on a non-hive community server where hopping isn't a problem?  Not only that, your base would be at the mercy of BI wiping the official server clean for an upcoming post-1.0 test/patch whereas there are plenty of (and no doubt will be more) community servers dedicated to persistence and base building.

[Guy Smiley 534]

31 minutes ago, drgullen said:

Why would I think that?  Because why would you build a base on official servers and be subject to this issue when you can build it on a non-hive community server where hopping isn't a problem?  Not only that, your base would be at the mercy of BI wiping the official server clean for an upcoming post-1.0 test/patch whereas there are plenty of (and no doubt will be more) community servers dedicated to persistence and base building.

Well I'm pretty sure that if BI is going to do a patch that is big enough that it needs to wipe the official servers, chances are community servers will get wiped too so they can get that update and guess what, I guarantee the community servers will see more wipes than official ones due to people building bases, abandoning them and bogging down servers.  Hell, Rust servers usually have monthly wipes to clean up the clutter

[Parazight 1594]

2 hours ago, drgullen said:

Why would I think that?  Because why would you build a base on official servers and be subject to this issue when you can build it on a non-hive community server where hopping isn't a problem?  Not only that, your base would be at the mercy of BI wiping the official server clean for an upcoming post-1.0 test/patch whereas there are plenty of (and no doubt will be more) community servers dedicated to persistence and base building.

Base building is a great time-sink.  Even on official servers!!  Because why not build bases? 

Who else am I supposed to shoot at? Bambis?

 

More importantly, community public is barren and official is active right now.

Edited December 9, 2018 by Parazight

[BAHADIR 124]

Most of the active community servers you see today are going to be off permanently in the future. Sometimes people cant afford to keep them going, sometimes they dont have the time to maintain it, player numbers cant be enough etc. But the officials will keep running so thats a +1 thingy for me for official servers. About the base building ?  Well, it happens.

[Mantasisg 172]

Something smart has to be done about server hopping. First, to stop people from looting up in totally empty servers and then engaging "superior" in full server. Second, to stop avoiding the bad weathers, nights, and sticky situations. 

Something should be "unrewarding" when you hop to different server. Especially if you'd hop to entirely different server, for example from empty to full, or from night/rain to day/dry.

I would suggest putting on temporary "Hopnik" brand clothing for a hour or two.

Presenting:

Empty to Full server (while strongly geared) hopnik hat:


Night to Day or rain to dry hopnik outfit:


Watch people stop server hopping. 

 

[Buakaw 274]

22 hours ago, jonhsmith111 said:

What's being done about server hopping into somebody else's base on PC ?

Building bases on private hives.

[Guy Smiley 534]

23 hours ago, jonhsmith111 said:

What's being done about server hopping into somebody else's base on PC ?

Not building your base out in the open

[pilgrim* 3513]

it's real strange this subject of server hopping has never come up before

 

Edited December 9, 2018 by pilgrim*

[Konfucious K 183]

I've been living de2 experimental prison island for 4 days and the closest I've come to meeting somebody is finding my AK stolen from my barrel. Seemss server hopping iss necesssary evil for the time there is a very small player base. Otherwise you'll just have veteran griefers runiing newcomers when 1.0 launches. Unless I'm missing something?

[pilgrim* 3513]

Let me try a Blog Search (it only takes a couple of seconds).. here ya go..
Search: "Server Hopping"
FOUND  8663  RESULTS
Wonder if any of them have anything interesting to say ?

Oh .. I remember now .. that's right .. I read them all already..

*

Say! - what's going to happen to your base when someone turns up when you arent logged in ?
And what's going to happen to you, in your base, when Parazite turns up with his hand grenades, and a sniper up in the trees ?

Dayz is a Terribly EXISTENTIAL Game, aint it?

*

[note : In the view of the existentialist, the individual's starting point (call it the 'log in') is characterized by what has been called "the existential attitude", or a sense of disorientation, confusion, or dread in the face of an apparently meaningless or absurd world.  Many existentialists (including DayZ players) have regarded traditional philosophies as abstract and remote from real concrete human experience.]

xxP

[Konfucious K 183]

delete

Edited December 10, 2018 by Konfucious K

[Konfucious K 183]

19 minutes ago, pilgrim* said:

 

[note : In the view of the existentialist, the individual's starting point (call it the 'log in') is characterized by what has been called "the existential attitude", or a sense of disorientation, confusion, or dread in the face of an apparently meaningless or absurd world.  Many existentialists (including DayZ players) have regarded traditional philosophies as abstract and remote from real concrete human experience.]

xxP

 

So what you;'re saying is...

[pilgrim* 3513]

4 minutes ago, Konfucious K said:

 

So what you;'re saying is...

I'm saying there are already 8663 comments on  "server hopping" and I'm agreeing with some of them and disagreeing with some of them.
Look up "hopping" (one word) and "ghosting" and you'll find another 10,000+ comments and suggestions and arguments.

DayZ is not a game that has "safe places" in it. This makes it an unusual game. Check this out - most games have areas of high risk and areas of high safety (breathing space or security?)  - I think many players, coming from those standard games, find it stressful to be at risk ALL the time, from login to logout/death. 
One great thing about DayZ is you never at ANY moment know WHERE the risk is coming from.  It's a true "player survival" game.  Brain and wits and knowledge count a lot more than kit. Knowing you are not ever safe is the starting point.

If that <constant unexpected insecurity>  leaves the game, it wont be worth playing anymore.

Some players starting the game don't really get this - they go through a phase of thinking DayZ is "unfair" because it kills them when they don't expect it to for reasons they don't expect.

Let's see how Bases play out.. I think a player would have to be crazy to trap themselves in one of those.. suicidal and highly visible .. I used to like helicopters in the old game because I hunted them and I shot them down or destroyed them on the ground.  so I don't object at ato bases and I'm sure they'll be a lot of fun. There have been MANY arguments about hopping and about special zones, and ways to stop people from logging out of fights, or ghosting, etc.. Lets see what BI does with BASES. They will iron out the glitches. And THEN: In this game, finding a weakness in your plan doesn't mean there's something wrong with the game, it means there's something wrong with your plan. 

xxP

 

[Sqeezorz 839]

If I ever find anything to eat in a base .... then I will try to crack each one. The same goes for helicopters ... even if it's just the pilot.

[emuthreat 2837]

8 hours ago, pilgrim* said:

Say! - what's going to happen to your base when someone turns up when you arent logged in ?
And what's going to happen to you, in your base, when Parazite turns up with his hand grenades, and a sniper up in the trees ?

At what point does it start feeling awkward to dig up powdered horse bones, only to beat hem in to an even finer dust?

You only play solo, and from that perspective, bases are of no value to you but for something to disrupt or destroy.  For others, bases might be a means of making contact with other survivors for the purpose of determining their motives and disposition.  And others still, may prefer to group up and make a megabase and try to defend it from the non-stop flow of players who invariably come to destroy them just because they are there.  Other players, who prefer to run solo or in small groups, will keep a little journal of bases that they use to drop by and steal just a few things; so the owners will not notice and keep putting nice things in there for them to take.

It seems pretty reductive to view bases in the way that you do.  It almost seems as if your mental image of a base is a walled-in area in a strategically poor location, with dimensions no larger than a grenade blast radius.
And with this, I must question the extent, nature, and quality of your experience with bases in DayZ.  Even in .62, it was possible to make a maze of tents to fill the gaps in an already hardened area.  And barring sniper over watch (which a good base engineer would mitigate by placing a base in areas with multiple covered egress) the advantage is very often in the favor of the defenders; so much so, that bases should be built with hidden faults to assist in retaking them in the case that someone uninvited has made themselves comfortable inside.

Back to the topic of this thread... Server hoppers can be frustrated by building you base with hoppers in mind.  By picking the places one would feel the most covered in logging out on the other server to ghost in, and placing bear traps or land mines in those areas of your base, you can mitigate the threat of ghosting by anticipating predictable norms in player behavior.  Heck, you could even build a wall around the good logout spots in your base, to make the hopper have to try again.

Even on private servers, we have to deal with players who combat log in bases.  Sneak in on low-pop and log out in a corner.  Log back in at high pop times and kill a player or two, only to log off in a different corner and try again in a half hour or so.
You might cringe when you hear this, but most communities prefer to ban these players, as it is considered abusing game mechanics.

As for public official servers...  Hopefully Bohemia will find their way to moderating a handful of these as the true hive of official servers, while leaving the 3rd person server hopping wild west to the heathens who prefer that style of exploitative play.

As for Ghosting into bases, we can only wait and see.

[pilgrim* 3513]

13 hours ago, emuthreat said:

You only play solo, and from that perspective, bases are of no value to you but for something to disrupt or destroy.

you certainly got that right, mah ol' Emu !! 

People like me should be banned from the game..DANG
imagine the horror of a solo player who considers the woods are HIS and doesn't like gangs of organized weaponized strangers setting up bases in HIS country.
 

He MIGHT decide he likes Ya and he might decide he cant stand the sight of ya..   thar plumb aint NO tellin what those backwoods un-re-generate folks might UP and DO for no good reason.

Hell, son! - Makes you think of Vietnam and the American war of Independence, dont it..  !!    All Davy Crockett and Chingachgook,  aint it..  pesky perverse-minded types..  destructive godless varmints should be banned from the game.. especially INDEPENDENT free ranging folk who do WHATEVER they like and Think Fit.

Best thing to do is 100 percent only EVER play on private white list servers where you won't get any NASTY people messing with your neat uniforms..

that will be a whole HEAP of fun.. when you've built one base you can build another and then another and ALL at entirely zero risk.. you can build whole TOWNS and CITIES of bases and throw all your guns in the ocean as fast as they spawn.

*

NOW if you want to have a conversation about SERVER HOPPING I suggest you look up one of the 12680 conversations that have already sprung up over the last several years and  join in one of those - cause like I said, I agree with some views and don't agree with others, and that's the end of my say on THAT ..  I do believe PERSONALLY I was talking about the <constant unexpected insecurity> of DayZ.

(I hope you dont object to that <constant unexpected insecurity> because iffn you does, you is playing the  WRONG GAME... eh eh he eheheh

AND do I believe I ALSO finished up saying:

There have been MANY arguments about hopping and about special zones, and ways to stop people from logging out of fights, or ghosting, etc.. Lets see what BI does with BASES.

So what you up on your high horse about?. - you aint one of them dang "funda mental christian fanaticz" is ya ?   if you got a bedbug in your pants about something, go see BI about it.. I don't have any influence on them,  any more than you do. But if you shout and wail.. maybe your 12680 + 1 hopper comment intervention might wreak a Mighty Change.

You want to ban folk from your private server, go right ahead - Only game I ever got banned from was < MY SECOND LIFE > .; I was in there on a free pass for maybe 4 minutes and they gave me 2 dollars and I laughed and they threw me right out. (heh) .. do believe I saw a teddy bear. Must have been a high point of my life.

I'll certainly TRY not to make THAT teeeeerible mistake in DayZ I swear!! .. I promise I'll fight moderately fair (unless i stand a better chance NOT doin)  and only throw grenades in the base when I think its occupied.. OK ? 
And I'll only shoot players in the back when I think they deserve it. (like if they come into my area and look iffy.. OK, cool?)

I'm more interested in a base being an HONEST FAIR-PLAY DEATH TRAP than server hopping, personally.. (and I'm looking forward to providing players with some honest fair-play conversation, excitement and blood loss .. cause that's what they're in the game for).  - but I'm sure if you LOOK you can find plenty of folk to talk about hopping, and I'm sure you can FIND OUT why BI hasn't made a move on THAT subject for 4 YEARS after ALL those conversations and suggestions..

xxP

I aint a fan of private servers and I aint a fan of (me myself) hopping either - but I aint going to TELL you that - because in this DayZ game you're SUPPOSED to be Paranoid. that's what the game's FOR.
Some players starting the game don't really get this - they go through a phase of thinking DayZ is "unfair" because it kills them when they don't expect it to for reasons they don't expe..

INCOMING !

Edited December 11, 2018 by pilgrim*

[pilgrim* 3513]

2 hours ago, emuthreat said:

It almost seems as if your mental image of a base is a walled-in area in a strategically poor location, with dimensions no larger than a grenade blast radius.

Yup !

[pilgrim* 3513]

16 hours ago, Konfucious K said:

the closest I've come to meeting somebody is finding my AK stolen from my barrel

when they steal the barrel from your AK you know they're too close

[Konfucious K 183]

1 minute ago, pilgrim* said:

when they steal the barrel from your AK you know they're too close

Funny you say that cause actually, afterwards, I set up a landmine right behind the same barrel with another ak (just an empty mag this time and nothing else) and put a tank of petrol in front to cover it up - and to help distract anyone walking in from looking too closely. When I came back yesterday everything in the area was ruined so I think I got my revenge. :P

God I love this game.

[emuthreat 2837]

Firstly, the fanatical projections get you nowhere.  People have all sorts of motivations and playstyles, and all I ever want is balance between constructive and destructive activities.  Which is not an unreasonable thing to ask for in a game.

It's more to the point of making the game as free of exploits as possible.  For instance, back in .62, it was possible to glitch through tent walls, even though realistically, one would just be able to slice through the walls with a knife.  But as the game was in that state, tents should have acted as barriers.
Exploitative play was to glitch through said barriers.  Sometimes you could even glitch through concrete walls that are part of the natural map.  The developers recognized this as unwanted behavior and disabled loot spawns in those buildings to try to prevent abuse.
Similarly, constructed base walls are now able to be walked through, defeating the purpose of building walls.  There was even a post about players possibly being able to drop through some roofs recently.
Driving a vehicle up to a wall and using the vehicle as a ladder (why can't we craft ladders?) would provide some visual and audio cues that a wall breech is imminent.  Dismantling a wall from outside should make some noise. 

Ghosting into a base should have some barrier or penalty.  It sucks that they scrapped the idea of companion animals. Petting and feeding the guard dogs before logging out inside a base, to ensure you are recognized upon returning, would be a good way to punish people ghosting into bases.

5 hours ago, pilgrim* said:

<constant unexpected insecurity>

I am assuming that you mean this in a practical sense, as within the intended mechanics of the game; rather than the extreme of flying hackers raining down grenades, or invisible speedhackers with infinite ammo SMGs.

To the point of ghosting/combat logging.  Once a player clears and secures an area, it is outside the scope of reasonable gameplay to have someone phase into existence behind you and shoot you.
To the point of private servers banning people who do this constantly and purposefully, it is the best option to ensure fair play, short of the Developers finding a solution.
Players with access to an exploit, can make the game unenjoyable for a majority of players.  Server owners and the developers have an interest in mitigating destructive and disruptive abuses of the game mechanics that diminish the value of the game for the majority of other players.
I imagine they will never allow wildfires and arson in a game like this, as a handful of dedicated players could effectively ruin every server, every day, as fast as the admins could reset them.  That speaks volumes towards the verifiable need to balance against purely destructive gameplay

I don't know why we keep butting heads on this issue.  Perhaps walking a few miles in my shoes would give you an understanding of what it feels like trying an already impossible task, and having to deal with abuse of game mechanics on top of that.

There is a reason that most of the threads about ghosting and server hopping seem to end at the same conclusion; play on a private server; because the public hive servers are prone to numerous exploits which allow unscrupulous players to gain an advantage that a reasonable person would not physically expect to be possible.
Get pinned down in a corner pub second floor, and watch the stairs, only for one of the guys to show up two minutes later behind you.
Most folks would regard this as cheating.  Cynical folks might chuckle and say it is possible, therefore okay to do.  Developers might say we don't know how to fix this without unintended consequences.  If you don't want to die because people are abusing the game for an unfair advantage, stay off or public hive servers for now.

Play DayZ with whatever motivations or strategies you wish, but the idea of fair play and intended mechanics vs abuse of exploits still stands.

I sure as hell wouldn't play chess with a person who decides that they could switch the properties of any two pieces at will, and I won't play DayZ on a server where glitch abuse is rampant.
Imagine if someone could remove their queen from a chess board for any number of turns, and replace it at will in the same position.  This is effectively what combat logging does on a private server, and it is perfectly reasonable to want to exclude such players from the community.

I think the only really viable solution for new PC and XBOX players is for BI to operate a handful of curated official servers in the same manner as private servers, and assign admins.  If they actually had some skin in the game, as far as responsibility for processing tickets for glitch abuse, it might incentivize them to fix some of these issues.

[Konfucious K 183]

2 hours ago, emuthreat said:

Ghosting into a base should have some barrier or penalty.  ....  it is outside the scope of reasonable gameplay to have someone phase into existence behind you and shoot you.
To the point of private servers banning people who do this constantly and purposefully, it is the best option to ensure I afair play, short of the Developers finding a solution.

I agree, I'd say tracking people with kills immediately after a log out/in would be very easy. The bad connection excuse could easily be disproven once you look at their overall connection stats. I'm sure there could be plenty of other ways of naming, shaming and punishing these kinds of players. Otherwise, just let us all teleport and make it a game we all hate.

[pilgrim* 3513]

4 hours ago, emuthreat said:

To the point of private servers

I'm not interested in private shard servers

I like Mantasisg's idea

 

Edited December 11, 2018 by pilgrim*
~