BI Needs to Postpone 1.0

[sneakydude 480]

On 12/3/2018 at 4:47 PM, THEGordonFreeman said:

And just so everyone understands... BI will be releasing the game regardless if it has a bunch of known issues, persistence corruption, and server crashes.  If you take everything said in account, this will be done come hell or high water.  I find myself asking 4 years of testing, playing and over 4000 hours... FOR....WHAT?!?  Can anyone at BI honestly say they are happy releasing this game in it's current state?

I still am shaking my head, still come here hoping the game is going in the right direction but so far i dunno man.... Ive gotten all these new games now, not sure dayz will hold onto many players anymore.

 

We all can flip to Warz.. that game still play able isn't it? i know pretty bad comparison but still.

Edited December 5, 2018 by sneakydude

[emuthreat 2837]

Congratulations on the promotion, Mr. Froman.

[philbur 476]

7 hours ago, sausagekingofchicago said:

Please do not spread false information.  Hicks was not fired.

Correct!

And say what you will about Brian....at least he was smart enough to know that if he ever wanted to work another gig in the game industry he had to distance himself from this train wreck as quickly as possible!

 

[ZomboWTF 527]

19 hours ago, Guy Smiley said:

No, 1.0 is the only release at the end of the year.  Zero mention of full game or end up beta.  

read the status report again, carefully

1.0 will be the end of the beta, and the end of the development cycle where they focus "80% on bug fxing and 20% on features"

once they hit 1.0, which they stated will happen this year, they will go back to focusing with 80% on features and 20% on bug fixing

end of beta means it's a full release, there is no other interpretation

 

Edited December 5, 2018 by ZomboWTF

[Weyland Yutani (DayZ) 1159]

9 hours ago, sausagekingofchicago said:

Please do not spread false information.  Hicks was not fired.

I wasn't implying he was...I was just being rhythmic tonally.

[pilgrim* 3514]

On 12/3/2018 at 9:36 PM, Weyland Yutani (DayZ) said:

some sort of fulfillment with console contracts?

I think changes in focus and targets, including the direction of Experimental and Stress Tests, are .. {cough) 'related' to console, 100% .. all this tectonic stuff over the last few months is coming from one source for one reason .. obviously.

Edited December 5, 2018 by pilgrim*
this is not a criticism or praise

[Saylor Twift 34]

I agree that they should postpone the 1.0 release. People have been coming to different "big" updates in the past to check the state of the game, and each time they saw a game that's still full of bugs and with lots of prototype, glitchy and unfinished features. They were disappointed and put the game aside in order to wait some more. The release of 1.0 and end of Early Access is the biggest update that the game will ever have marketing wise,  and a way of the devs of saying "EVERYONE LISTEN COME BACK TO OUR GAME! IT'S GOOD  NOW". That will be the final and last cry of the devs to attract a big playerbase to the game, and it will succeed or fail. And with the current state of the game we can see that it's leaning more towards fail. You have to keep in mind that majority of the potential playerbase for this game doesn't browse the forums and doesn't follow the status reports. The people who do are minority. Most won't care about what's after 1.0, or that it's just temporary. To them the only thing they see is "1.0 FULL RELEASE" which means they expect to get a somewhat finished product that's much better than what they experienced before. They will come back to the game, see that it's still full of bugs just like they saw when they were coming back to a .50 or .60 etc update during alpha, except now lots of content is removed too, like majority of guns.  Then they will leave for good. 

You can have a playerbase consisting only of the dedicated people who follow every update on the forums and are willing to put up with the state of 1.0 knowing that stuff will be fixed later, but that playerbase is a minority. You can see that now by how many players are still playing or even caring about this game. It's dead. The only way for the game to attract and keep a big playerbase is to smack them on the face with something really great when they check the 1.0 version of the game when it comes out. And needless to say this won't happen with the current state of the game because of how many bugs and missing content there is. 

Remember there is still a very big group of people out there who haven't touched DayZ for years but will check it out once they see that it's come out of Early Access and is 1.0. They've been planning on doing that for years. So if this 1.0 update is just as disappointing then that will be the end. They won't ever come back to DayZ, no matter what the devs do in 1.05 or 1.10. 

 

Edited December 5, 2018 by Saylor Twift

[Guy Smiley 534]

3 hours ago, ZomboWTF said:

read the status report again, carefully

1.0 will be the end of the beta, and the end of the development cycle where they focus "80% on bug fxing and 20% on features"

once they hit 1.0, which they stated will happen this year, they will go back to focusing with 80% on features and 20% on bug fixing

end of beta means it's a full release, there is no other interpretation

 

You read it again

 

"Most of this will be happening throughout the rest of 2018, culminating in a 1.0 release where we leave Early Access - but even after this milestone is achieved (meaning we finally close the core development of the game), we're going to keep improving the platform before new things start making their way into the game again.

So to summarize, the PC BETA update is going to be a version of the game that has all the basic fun elements of DayZ available, and it's also the start of the journey towards a balanced, stable platform that's ready to support further development and modding.

With that out of the way, let's take a look at the particular features and content that will be available in the BETA update."

 

"Road to the 1.0 release

In general, polishing the package of content and features as described above will be our goal for 1.0, and for the weeks immediately after 1.0. This will include:

general balancing of every part of the game (central economy, weapon damage...)

a massive amount of bug fixing 

polishing and improving the general feeling you as players have when playing DayZ

Just to assure everyone again, both the BETA and 1.0 releases will happen this year. All of that will be done together with our community, and we will be expecting to hear a lot of feedback on various things. When the BETA update gets released, we'll be providing more details on how we will be collecting and evaluating feedback. 

As the cherry on top, there's of course the planned modding toolset release - and we'll also get back to that later on, when the BETA update is in your hands. It deserves its own blog post, and after all, this has already been a very long wall of text anyway! :)

- Martin Čulák / Brand Manager"

 

Nowhere does it state in that status report that DayZ is full release at 1.0. 

Edited December 5, 2018 by Guy Smiley

[ZomboWTF 527]

58 minutes ago, Saylor Twift said:

So if this 1.0 update is just as disappointing then that will be the end. They won't ever come back to DayZ, no matter what the devs do in 1.05 or 1.10. 

 

That is the main problem that i have with this 1.0 release

The diehard DayZ fans know the game isn't feature complete, the devs know it just as well, but they are calling it "Core gameplay loop complete" which is just a complete joke of a statement, the games core gameplay loop was finished when the mod first came out ffs, the core gameplay loop of the standalone was finished at the very beginning of Standalone

i would really like to know the real motivation behind ending the beta so abruptly, this wasn't a beta, it was a "oh shit we need to release the game this year because X" reaction, in a proper beta you need enough time to take beta tester feedback into account and try different things to make the gameplay satisfying, look at the focused feedback subforum, we were supposed to get the second round of focused feedback this week, but the subforum is completely silent

i am so sorry for people buying this game on xbox and ps4 expecting a completely polished game, but they only get a rushed release version

if the devs would extend the beta with the focus on fixing bugs two or three months into 2019, it would look MUCH better, but we have not heard any other plan than to "exit beta this year and release 1.0"

Edited December 5, 2018 by ZomboWTF

[ZomboWTF 527]

1 hour ago, Guy Smiley said:

You read it again

"Most of this will be happening throughout the rest of 2018, culminating in a 1.0 release where we leave Early Access - but even after this milestone is achieved (meaning we finally close the core development of the game),

Nowhere does it state in that status report that DayZ is full release at 1.0. 

them stating leaving early acces is the same as stating the game is fully released

what else do you think comes after beta? the end of beta is the start of the release period, there is no development stage after beta other than continued support and adding features and stomping bugs post-release, please read up on software development in general

the state of the game after beta is what will come to xbox, ps4 and pc as the finished game, if that isn't good, the game will fail, it's as easy as that

Edited December 5, 2018 by ZomboWTF

[Guy Smiley 534]

1 minute ago, ZomboWTF said:

them stating leaving early acces is the same as stating the game is fully released

what else do you think comes after beta? the end of beta is the release, there is no development stage after beta other than continued support and adding features post-release

No it's not.  Where are you finding your information?  Read the goddamn status report.  It does not state anywhere that it's leaving beta and going into full release.  And if I'm not mistaken, full release was mentioned to happen sometime in 2019 for both the Xbox and PC versions respectively

[Funkmaster Rick 373]

RIP my faith. December 16th 2013 through December 5th 2018. I don't care about the thirty bucks I spent on this game - that's a pittance. I do wish I hadn't spent so many hours hoping. They certainly could have been used more productively.

[IMT 3190]

5 hours ago, Guy Smiley said:

You read it again

 

"Most of this will be happening throughout the rest of 2018, culminating in a 1.0 release where we leave Early Access - but even after this milestone is achieved (meaning we finally close the core development of the game), we're going to keep improving the platform before new things start making their way into the game again.

So to summarize, the PC BETA update is going to be a version of the game that has all the basic fun elements of DayZ available, and it's also the start of the journey towards a balanced, stable platform that's ready to support further development and modding.

With that out of the way, let's take a look at the particular features and content that will be available in the BETA update."

 

"Road to the 1.0 release

In general, polishing the package of content and features as described above will be our goal for 1.0, and for the weeks immediately after 1.0. This will include:

general balancing of every part of the game (central economy, weapon damage...)

a massive amount of bug fixing 

polishing and improving the general feeling you as players have when playing DayZ

Just to assure everyone again, both the BETA and 1.0 releases will happen this year. All of that will be done together with our community, and we will be expecting to hear a lot of feedback on various things. When the BETA update gets released, we'll be providing more details on how we will be collecting and evaluating feedback. 

As the cherry on top, there's of course the planned modding toolset release - and we'll also get back to that later on, when the BETA update is in your hands. It deserves its own blog post, and after all, this has already been a very long wall of text anyway! :)

- Martin Čulák / Brand Manager"

 

Nowhere does it state in that status report that DayZ is full release at 1.0. 

"Early access, also known as early funding, alpha-access, or paid-alpha, is a funding model in the video game industry by which consumers can pay (or get it for free) for a game in the various development cycles (pre-alpha, alpha, beta) and obtain access to the pre-full release versions of the game, while the developer is able to use those funds to continue work on the game".

After DayZ leaves Early Access, the Early Access warning will be gone at Steam, the reviews will then count towards a fully released game, various gaming news site will publish articles about it, gaming reviews will give the game a review not based on Early Access, etc. In other words, it's a freaking fully released game. 1.0 = a fully released game. How hard is it to comprehend?

As someone already suggested, read up on the software development life cycle and the software release life cycle, maybe that will clear things up for you. All I know is that the current build definitely isn't a RC, far from it in fact.

Shit, the game isn't even fun to play right now. I can't play the game for 30 minutes before getting frustrated and quitting the game.  Less than 3 weeks are left before the holiday season begins and there is so much to do, much more than you even think. I'm not only talking about bugs but also balancing and tweaks. It's a mission impossible to say the least unless the developers suddenly pull out a stable, mostly bug free, balanced and tweaked build out of their hat in 2 weeks.

To be honest, all this time I haven't been put off from the game so much as I have been right now. Even when there were builds where a shit ton of stuff was absolutely broken. I guess it's the deadline which is making me frustrated with the game. Seeing it in this poor state and knowing that they have less than 3 weeks left. The flood gates will then open but it isn't going to be the "oh wooow, this is cool", "they really pulled it off", "wow, I was wrong about DayZ" flood we all expected. It's going to be the complete opposite.

It's a shame. A real shame, that's what it is.

Edited December 5, 2018 by IMT

[Guy Smiley 534]

You guys are hilarious.  Early access is not the new model for game structure.  It was their way of crowd funding the game.  Alpha does not = early access.  Beta not not = early access

[IMT 3190]

23 minutes ago, Guy Smiley said:

You guys are hilarious.  Early access is not the new model for game structure.  It was their way of crowd funding the game.  Alpha does not = early access.  Beta not not = early access

Did you even actually read what I said? I litteraly quoted what Early Access is... "Early access, also known as early funding, alpha-access, or paid-alpha, is a FUNDING MODEL in the video game industry by which consumers can pay (or get it for free) FOR A GAME IN THE VARIOUS DEVELOPMENT CYCLES (PRE-ALPHA, ALPHA, BETA) and obtain access to the pre-full release versions of the game, while the developer is able to use those funds to continue work on the game"

I guess that highlighting wasn't clear enough for you. Is it clear enough for you now or do I need to highlight it with red? Alpha does indeed not mean Early Access and so doesn't beta. However, Early Access does follow the regular software release life cycle and regular software development life cycle. That means as soon as a game leaves Early Access, it has followed all the development phases and it's a fully released game. It doesn't even make sense what you're trying to say. Early access literally means, well... early access. You get early access to a game which is still in development. When it leaves early access, there is no early access anymore. What does that mean? Hmm, I don't know, perhaps that it's released?

It's not rocket science dude.

[green_mtn_grandbob 594]

As BI had a time warp and lost 4 years, and what makes you think they will not release it when they said they would.  LOL

 

[Guy Smiley 534]

8 minutes ago, IMT said:

Did you even actually read what I said? I litteraly quoted what Early Access is... "Early access, also known as early funding, alpha-access, or paid-alpha, is a FUNDING MODEL in the video game industry by which consumers can pay (or get it for free) FOR A GAME IN THE VARIOUS DEVELOPMENT CYCLES (PRE-ALPHA, ALPHA, BETA) and obtain access to the pre-full release versions of the game, while the developer is able to use those funds to continue work on the game"

I guess that highlighting wasn't clear enough for you. Is it clear enough for you now or do I need to highlight it with red? Alpha does indeed not mean Early Access and so doesn't beta. However, Early Access does follow the regular software release life cycle and regular software development life cycle. That means as soon as a game leaves Early Access, it has followed all the development phases and it's a fully released game. It doesn't even make sense what you're trying to say. Early access literally means, well... early access. You get early access to a game which is still in development. When it leaves early access, there is no early access anymore. What does that mean? Hmm, I don't know, perhaps that it's released?

It's not rocket science dude.

Wrong.  Leaving early access does not mean full release.  I have no idea where you're getting your information from but you are very wrong.  Many games have left early access and moved into "beta" and have stayed beta for many many years.  Just stop

[emuthreat 2837]

1.0 implies a finished product.  I don't care what BI have said this means in their current internal parlance; what matters is what consumers are going to think it should be based on this labeling, and how they are going to react at what they see that it is.
There is an entire profession dedicated to this subject.  It's called marketing, and is a very well established concept with tons of industry norms.  In fact there are many guidelines for marketing and advertisement of products, to ensure that people who give money for goods and services know what to expect when they are buying.

So when a player hears that DayZ just released the 1.0 version, and finds that half of the guns, fishing, and bows and arrows are out of the game, many will feel that they have been lied to.  It does not matter that DayZ Devs have made clear what beta and 1.0 mean to themselves.  What matters is public perception.

Calling the game 1.0 while it is missing most of the guns and vehicles, and numerous other features that people have seen and played in previous versions of the game is an unforced error.
It is a terrible mistake of labeling that we could all see coming since they announced beta/1.0 (not the same thing, why are they calling these the same thing) to be released by end of year 2 months ago.

I'm not upset about the current state of the game.  I understand that all of this is new to them again, and there are lots of complicated things to make work together.  These things will take time.  That time is called beta. It is not called 1.0 and beyond.

I don't know if they can't see the bad reviews and bad press that this proposed labeling of the 1.0/Beta release is going to bring, or if they understand and just don't care.  But either way, the DayZ 1.0 steam reviews are going to mention them selling half a game and calling it done, mine included, even if they do plan to finish it later.

[IMT 3190]

1 minute ago, Guy Smiley said:

Wrong.  Leaving early access does not mean full release.  I have no idea where you're getting your information from but you are very wrong.  Many games have left early access and moved into "beta" and have stayed beta for many many years.  Just stop

Stop being so stubborn man.

https://partner.steamgames.com/doc/store/earlyaccess#9

That's what Steam has to say about it. Since they're using Steam's Early Access, it will mean that on Steam the game is fully released. No matter how you twist or bend it, as soon as they remove the Early Access tag on Steam, it's fully released. I highly advise you to read the entire article. There is all the information you need to know. And all games who leave Early Access and are still in beta made up their own rules on development life cycle and development release life cycle.

Leaving early access means feature complete so that means BI is slapping their own rules on development life cycle and development release life cycle as well but that has been no secret since we're in beta and the game doesn't have all the systems in and is not fully feature complete. The game is pretty much still in alpha but they just labeled in beta and shifted to bugfixing instead of implementing. After 1.0 they just go back to alpha to implement the missing features and systems.

[Evilsausage 87]

It's always tricky when they get funded by players for a game not yet made. Because technically the players have already payed for the product. In DayZs case the development took too long and the hype died down for most of the players. 

They know they wont get a shitload of new people buying the game now. The hardcore players have already bought it. So they have to focus on other projects first. Like that Vigor project. I bet they even got deadlines there they have to follow, so they can't fuck around like with DayZ. 

They said before they had 60 people working on DayZ but i seriously doubt they got that at this point. DayZ sold 3 million copies + the mod gave Arma 2 alot more sales. I think DayZ would have deserved better then this. 

[ZomboWTF 527]

to be frank, for me this all doesn't really matter, i just want to play a good version of DayZ, and the game is certainly heading in that direction, seeing how good the current experimental is (if you look at early 0.63 versions in comparison)

i am just disappointed that the release version will very probably not be convincing for most people, and this will make DayZ Development slower after release (no funds = developers get assigned to a new project which can make more profit, sooner or later), and it's lifetime shorter, and there won't be nearly as much people loving DayZ as much as i do because they were turned away by a buggy, incomplete version of the game

let's hope the devs pull a miracle from under their hat, since going 1.0 this year seems to be an unchangeable decision

Edited December 5, 2018 by ZomboWTF

[Guy Smiley 534]

20 minutes ago, IMT said:

Stop being so stubborn man.

https://partner.steamgames.com/doc/store/earlyaccess#9

That's what Steam has to say about it. Since they're using Steam's Early Access, it will mean that on Steam the game is fully released. No matter how you twist or bend it, as soon as they remove the Early Access tag on Steam, it's fully released. I highly advise you to read the entire article. There is all the information you need to know. And all games who leave Early Access and are still in beta made up their own rules on development life cycle and development release life cycle.

Leaving early access means feature complete so that means BI is slapping their own rules on development life cycle and development release life cycle as well but that has been no secret since we're in beta and the game doesn't have all the systems in and is not fully feature complete. The game is pretty much still in alpha but they just labeled in beta and shifted to bugfixing instead of implementing. After 1.0 they just go back to alpha to implement the missing features and systems.

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DayZ is not one of them and it also does not follow this unaffiliated site

[Guy Smiley 534]

This thread, just like the other one that was removed, is just a temper tantrum.  Bohemia has there plan, which I myself do not agree with, and they are going to follow through with it.  Good or bad so buck up and deal with it.

[Buakaw 274]

We all know a real 1.0 is many months away.

2019 is the real year of dayz, and then we will get the real 1.0, no matter what they call it.

Edited December 7, 2018 by Buakaw

[Evilsausage 87]

Just because some old players come back doesn't mean DayZ will get alot of new players. Especially not if it gets butcherd by reviewers.  Remember it's the new players that can bring in money, old players have already payed for DayZ. 

Development has already been slow as hell. My guess is that post 1.0 will be worse. 

Edited December 5, 2018 by Evilsausage