Devs removing weapon dispersion: "we are missing implementation of dispersion ... we are not using it anymore." Without dispersion, weapons can't be 'authentic'—keep it in the game.

[Guy Smiley 534]

1 minute ago, -Gews- said:

If I recall correctly, you aren't really interested in pursuing the ARMA-style realism. And so I guess the argument 'all real life firearms have a random dispersion' does't hold weight with you, and it comes down to the gameplay alone.

But even on gameplay alone, I would challenge you to find a first or third-person shooting game that has come out since DayZ mod's launch in 2012 that does not add random dispersion, realistic or exaggerated, to one or more firearms. Every successful title, from CS:GO to Overwatch to PUBG to Squad to Fortnite to [insert game here] has some implementation of weapon dispersion.

So it can't be that stupid.

You mean, every other game that doesn't take into factor, out of breath, scared, sick, wounded, thirsty, hungry, slowly dying?  Then yes, I still agree with their reasoning.

[-Gews- 7443]

27 minutes ago, Guy Smiley said:

You mean, every other game that doesn't take into factor, out of breath, scared, sick, wounded, thirsty, hungry, slowly dying?  Then yes, I still agree with their reasoning.

I think you can pretty much lump all of those status' effects into "weapon sway" and I think DayZ is not the only game with weapon sway. Particularly in current 0.63 (haha).

I can't really make most of my arguments here because I'll say "—but real life weapons" and you'll say "—game".

But I think the six years of DayZ dispersion play-testing shows that modelling realistic weapon accuracy has never been 'over the top' as mentioned in the May 8 status report.

[Guy Smiley 534]

3 hours ago, -Gews- said:

I think you can pretty much lump all of those status' effects into "weapon sway" and I think DayZ is not the only game with weapon sway. Particularly in current 0.63 (haha).

I can't really make most of my arguments here because I'll say "—but real life weapons" and you'll say "—game".

But I think the six years of DayZ dispersion play-testing shows that modelling realistic weapon accuracy has never been 'over the top' as mentioned in the May 8 status report.

Yes, but before .63, most other factors besides weapon sway, didn't have any effect.  Their reasoning is sound.  I'm a huge advocate for full realism but with the console announcement, that is way too many factors to play in for the controller folks.  The redesign of the engine is for the consoles and both versions are going to be identical.

 

Modding will fix your concerns

Edited June 20, 2018 by Guy Smiley

[-Gews- 7443]

42 minutes ago, Guy Smiley said:

Yes, but before .63, most other factors besides weapon sway, didn't have any effect.  

Except various sicknesses or cold (cannibal laugh, "you are shaking") and broken arms (my arm feels painful). 

And in 0.63?...lots of sway there? Not really, at this point?

45 minutes ago, Guy Smiley said:

Their reasoning is sound. 

I would disagree:

"We are not using it anymore as I think ‘fighting’ some random nonsense on mid to long ranges is over the top, as players are already challenged enough by mechanics like sway, recoil, zeroing, actual bullet speed and drop - all that combined with character movement, which is enough."

Players are already challenged enough = arguable!
Dispersion is over the top = untrue!

'Over the top' per Merriam-Webster = extremely or excessively flamboyant or outrageous,  going beyond what is expected, usual, normal, or appropriate : excessive or exaggerated.

Complaints about DayZ / ARMA's realistic levels of dispersion = near zero.
Dispersion compared to other games' weapons = less than most.

Therefore, not 'over the top'.

 

55 minutes ago, Guy Smiley said:

 I'm a huge advocate for full realism but with the console announcement, that is way too many factors to play in for the controller folks.  The redesign of the engine is for the consoles and both versions are going to be identical.

I don't see how. Weapon dispersion isn't something you control, nor does it make it more difficult to aim your gun, so I don't get where mouse and keyboard vs controller comes into it.
 

56 minutes ago, Guy Smiley said:

Modding will fix your concerns

Modding won't fix my concerns about anything in DayZ.




Anyways according to status report from today:

Quote

 

This week is dedicated to the internal implementation of:

Climbing
Weapon dispersion
Weapon zeroing
Weapons - Double Barrel
Diseases
Scopes
Enfusion Hierarchy
New Input System
Action Animations
Collisions during melee

 

We'll have to see what exactly 'internal implementation' will mean for weapons.

[DeatHTaX 1217]

On 6/19/2018 at 10:34 PM, Guy Smiley said:

but with the console announcement....

Whoa whoa whoa console announcement? What the hell did I miss?

Lmao at the hell that awaits console players from this dev team.

[ServiusAU 9]

On 5/23/2018 at 12:07 AM, IMT said:

First of all, who said that they were removing dispersion because of consoles?

"Dumbing down for consoles" Is just a Bogeyman cooked up by elitists to cry about every change they don't like, seriously. A lot of the DayZ community is hardcore PC Mustard Race and any perceived 'streamlining' is just seen as trying to appeal to the unwashed console masses. The moment a console version was announced just about every change has been put down to 'dumbing down for the consoles' and it gets really tiring. It's doubly amusing because console shooters usually have much more dispersion than mainline PC shooters. If anything things like scope sway, recoil and having to zero weapons is actually significantly more controller unfriendly than dispersion. Really leaves me scratching my head and wondering about the logic behind the 'console streamlining' complaints at times.

As for the dispersion I think there should be a realistic level of it, DayZ should have it's feet firmly set in a certain level of realism both because of it's history, and it will set it apart from the other games that have come out inspired by it. It should be done in a way that will not make it overly frustrating and leave people praying to the RNG gods despite them doing everything right but I don't think the devs will go that far in that direction. Although weapon dispersion has already been confirmed in some way so we shall see if it's done in a way that makes the majority of people happy.

 

[sneakydude 480]

There is always the Feedback tracker if you dont like the way the devs have done it. See if you get a response or a 2 cents.

[emuthreat 2837]

On 6/24/2018 at 6:31 AM, ServiusAU said:

If anything things like scope sway, recoil and having to zero weapons is actually significantly more controller unfriendly than dispersion.

In this case, wouldn't removing dispersion give gamepad users one less thing to worry about?  Just a thought.

[Rekurv 53]

I'm totally for dispersion/realism also. 

Just my 2 cents.

[ColdAtrophy 1850]

On 6/19/2018 at 8:03 PM, -Gews- said:

I can't really make most of my arguments here because I'll say "—but real life weapons" and you'll say "—game".

I've been thinking about this dispersion issue a lot over the past couple weeks. I wanted to jump back into this discussion real quick and share my thoughts. We don't even have to go so far as to make the argument for dispersion strictly from the point of view that everything in the game has to be a 1:1 with real life (not that you are, @-Gews-). In my opinion, a person making that argument (i.e - but it's a game, not real life) is getting hung up on an argument that we aren't exactly making. It's more nuanced than that. For example, no one is making the point that the player character should have to stop and relieve themselves regularly, randomly respawn on the coast to find that your character was "born" with an autoimmune disorder, or experience heat rashes from running for days with 80 pounds of gear and randomly found, unwashed clothing on. Why? Because that would be strict realism. As I see it, authenticity is basically an adherence to reality insofar as it adds to and does not take away from the enjoyment of the player's experience (provided it also fits in with the designers' vision for the game).

1) DayZ is fundamentally different from anything else the games industry has to offer. What makes the experience so immersive and what makes the title particularly endearing to virtually anyone I've ever spoken to on the subject is the adherence to authentic design. This particular trait spawns a massive web of other interconnected design elements that, together, provide an experience that simply cannot be had in any other game. I've tried all of the survival/horror/TPS/FPS/battle royale/sandbox games and mods I could get my hands on. DayZ is, with no qualifiers or exceptions, the most hardcore, authentic, and immersive game across all the genres it fits into. The feeling of progression that naturally arises as an emergent property of the overall design of the game is based almost entirely on the player's own skill behind the keyboard and mouse improving over time, hard earned through blood, sweat, and tears. Soft skills will supplement this, if and when they get implemented, but by the very nature of what they are intended to modify, they can never be a proper substitution for mastery over the game's mechanics. DayZ's adherence to authenticity means that a certain amount of intuitive sense and knowledge about items found in the game world are actually relevant in interacting with the game's systems, contributing massively to player immersion and investment in the experience.

2) Removing dispersion makes the game easier for new players. I have a theory about another possible motivation for removing it, but it's purely speculative and I don't think that will contribute to the discussion. It should suffice to say that it makes successfully killing other entities within the sandbox less of a complex operation, effectively lowering the skill ceiling and narrowing the skill gap. The devs have essentially stated this much already.

So, as I see it, conventional design philosophy shies away from complexity. DayZ turns complexity into its strongest asset. By removing dispersion, the devs are fundamentally chipping away at one of the core pillars of DayZ's identity and, by extension, weakening the only meaningful progression system that the game has. I would personally sacrifice nearly any other design element to avoid making that mistake at all costs. 

That's my rant.

Edited July 3, 2018 by ColdAtrophy

[Sqeezorz 839]

I've also thought a lot about why! the dispersion is no longer implemented. One possible fact could be that there will be a lot of influences in the endgame that will not let your character be quiet. Cold / Heat / Humidity / Diseases / Hunger / Thirst / Injury / Exertion / Stamina and maybe other parameters will leave you feeling restless. Ok, it's a point to act on.

On the other hand, what if you're the perfect gear and in top-fit and healthy? Then you have the big advantage over everything. This contradicts the novice friendliness, because exactly they will have the greatest challenge with these parameters.

My still hope is still that the dispersion of weapons with Scopes is used.

[wartzilla 182]

Peter did get one thing right with his initial criticism of DayZ's dispersion - a longer barrel is not going to be inherently more precise than a shorter one (what it does do is provide more velocity). They could have fixed such things about the implementation of dispersion rather than getting rid of it completely.

Maybe I'm the stupid one but I do not see any reason for removing a feature that adds authenticity and differentiates between the weapons. Why would anyone want each weapon to have the same inherent precision? They can go play PUBG or some other game less concerned with authenticity if that's what they want.

I'm worried about how easily this direction was taken by the dev team. It is antithetical to what DayZ used to be about, and what used to make it different from other games.

[Rekurv 53]

They already put dispersion back in the game yeh? 

 

[Parazight 1599]

 

27 minutes ago, Rekurv said:

They already put dispersion back in the game yeh? 

 

latest status report:

Quote

As a side note, barrel dispersion is already back in Experimental 0.63 version for quite some time, however it seems it’s not that noticeable without magnified view of scopes.

 

[Rekurv 53]

ahh ok cool..awesome, and thankyou !