Meeting up with friends SHOULD be more accessible in .63.

[☣BioHaze☣ 7337]

On 5/21/2018 at 10:50 AM, Mantasisg said:

it is grinding

No, grinding is when you do the same exact thing over and over.

Searching the map for your friends is not grinding.

[Rek Seven 37]

I do not agree. The difficulty of surviving long enough to reach your goal (meet a friend) is part of the experience. You should not always be able to rely on safety in numbers. 

[Mantasisg 172]

Well good, that is your opinion it is alright. 

In my opinion. Anything what is inefficiently time consuming, that seems like there is no end is grinding. You could try to cut a tree with a knife, and that would be grinding. You could use better tool, it still would be challenging, but would take less time, and perhaps lead towards higher challenges more efficiently.

I'd better Interact, PVP or PVE for 90percent of the time, rather than run around periodically picking up some drinks or food... Traveling and looting should be less goal and more an instrument of gameplay. I am not saying that we should be all teleporting around, finding best stuff in few minutes and dumbing down DayZ, but just doing it more efficiently. 

 

[Mantasisg 172]

Just now, Rek Seven said:

I do not agree. The difficulty of surviving long enough to reach your goal (meet a friend) is part of the experience. You should not always be able to rely on safety in numbers. 

So you finally met your friend, goal is achieved. Good because you already played enough and it is time to turn PC off (thats exactly how it actually is lol). According to you the game could be actually be called "Lonewolf stories: finding your lost friend", you finish the game when you finally find your friend haha There definitely is a niche for that.

[DannyDog 532]

I think the main issue with this is more to do with learning how to survive. When it comes to introducing newcomers (especially your dayz hate friends) nothing is more worse than feeling completely helpless as they struggle very hard to survive hunger and thirst + crazy ass infected whilst hearing them moan and complain in voip. All the while you as a veteran just try very hard to loot as much life saving items AND rush to their location just for them to end up dying minutes before you get there. Then they spawn in the complete opposite side of the map and you just can't help but f11 and start over. So idk there needs to be atleast something for newcomers. I would rather teach them the game myself than to go tell them to youtube tutorials or read wikis on how to survive. But it's impossible to do so when i can barely meet up with them.

I got my friend to play during the stress test weekend and after like 2-3 hours of trying to meet up and have enough to journey inland he's gotten a good taste of the game and really likes it. (he use to be a hater) His main current issue with the game is this topic.

Edited May 22, 2018 by DannyDog

[Bramblevines 1]

They could just add in an option to have you party up through the main menu and all respawn on the coast in the same random spot at the same time. The downside would be every member would all lose whatever character they had at the time if you chose to do this.

Edited May 22, 2018 by Bramblevines

[☣BioHaze☣ 7337]

12 minutes ago, DannyDog said:

His main current issue with the game is this topic.

But you yourself said that he just needs more experience.

Adding this for new players robs them of the learning process.

I think it's contrary to DayZ game design to have any way to spawn with your friends.

If you don't have the time to spend learning the game, you shouldn't be able to reap all the benefits of a player who is well experienced.

Every fucking time we get a significant new patch, a new wave of players comes along crying about the same basic stuff that has always been a part of the game.

After 6 years of involvement with this game they think they can come along and demand fundamental changes to fit their ideas for the game, completely ignoring the long set standards for how things have been done.

"Waaaa, I only have 2 hours play before I have to do homework, why don't they hand me everything so I can just PvP on the coast!"

Apparently, "action" (see also PvP) is what a lot of these narrow minded players come to DayZ for that have been mislead by streamers.

People who think DayZ should be action all the time, or is centered on PvP, will never understand this game for what it is.

I honestly wish these people would just go play Warframe, ARMA3, or CoD.

Edited May 22, 2018 by ☣BioHaze☣

[DannyDog 532]

10 minutes ago, ☣BioHaze☣ said:

But you yourself said that he just needs more experience.

Adding this for new players robs them of the learning process.

I think it's contrary to DayZ game design to have any way to spawn with your friends.

If you don't have the time to spend learning the game, you shouldn't be able to reap all the benefits of a player who is well experienced.

Every fucking time we get a significant new patch, a new wave of players comes along crying about the same basic stuff that has always been a part of the game.

After 6 years of involvement with this game they think they can come along and demand fundamental changes to fit their ideas for the game, completely ignoring the long set standards for how things have been done.

"Waaaa, I only have 2 hours play before I have to do homework, why don't they hand me everything so I can just PvP on the coast!"

Apparently, "action" (see also PvP) is what a lot of these narrow minded players come to DayZ for that have been mislead by streamers.

People who think DayZ should be action all the time, or is centered on PvP, will never understand this game for what it is.

I honestly wish these people would just go play Warframe.

Why are you ranting to me about what @Bramblevines said? I suggested no such thing. Also I understand your frustration but i don't really like how you can be affected so heavily by the people you accuse of ruining the game. You want this. He wants that. Christ it's quite annoying seeing people become so heavily invested into one idea that they no longer become open to others.

Edited May 22, 2018 by DannyDog

[Gobbokirk 546]

3 hours ago, Mantasisg said:

here we go again with same ... the fun resistance, pseudo realism and pseudo challenge guards

I haven't said that it should be on the every corner, I said that it should be easiest to find. Wouldn't you agree that bicycle should be at least as common as a gun, if not more ? Unless it would be USA, then guns would probably be more common than bicycles.

Give me a reason why you think there should be less, and how many would be enough in your opinion ?

I feel like many of "survivors" of community here has mistaken DayZ being time consuming as the main challenge, that could explain why you survived. I am ok with that, not being too selfish, not saying that it is good, or bad, but just how it is. IMO it is not the best.

I didn't say you did either ;)
The thing is that every time people bring up bikes and cars it sounds like they expect to spawn with them, so that's a general observation, not saying that's your idea.

Time isn't a challenge in it self, but if spending 20mins getting basic gear while a couple of friends are working their way towards a meeting point is too much work I surely hope there will be a lot of disappointment for them.
Has nothing to be with being a challenge guard, tbh that statement is borderline childish.
People have different tastes, luckily not all developers cater to the majority, if they did we'd be getting another BR game after all.

How many bikes? 15 cars 25 bikes/motorbikes is more than enough for a 100 player map in my book.
Whats the point with a large map if everyone gets a vehicle? Might as well just make a smaller map...

[Gobbokirk 546]

22 minutes ago, Bramblevines said:

They could just add in an option to have you party up through the main menu and all respawn on the coast in the same random spot. The downside would be every member would all lose whatever character they had at the time if you chose to do this.

Something like a South/East/North option for people that don't have chars on the server could work.
Not convinced I want it in the base game, but should be easy enough to make as a mod though without them spawning on top of each other.

[☣BioHaze☣ 7337]

15 minutes ago, DannyDog said:

I suggested no such thing.

 

38 minutes ago, DannyDog said:

His main current issue with the game is this topic.

That implies that your friend would want the game changed just to suit his ideas for this "issue".

I wasn't ranting at you, I was elucidating my viewpoint on the topic to everyone in the thread, and I usually agree with most of what you post.

Changing DayZ to suit new players, or make the game easier for them, is insulting to those of us who are invested to learn.

That was one of my favorite aspects of the mod, simply learning things that we consider basic now.

[DannyDog 532]

22 minutes ago, ☣BioHaze☣ said:

 

That implies that your friend would want the game changed just to suit his ideas for this "issue".

I wasn't ranting at you, I was elucidating my viewpoint on the topic to everyone in the thread, and I usually agree with most of what you post.

Changing DayZ to suit new players, or make the game easier for them, is insulting to those of us who are invested to learn.

That was one of my favorite aspects of the mod, simply learning things that we consider basic now.

Ah fk yeah i thought saying "this topic" might have been the wrong phrase. I haven't actually read all of the posts in this thread so my general idea was that people were having a hard time meeting up because they couldn't survive the trip which lead to my point that players just have a hard time learning how to survive. Like sure you need food, water, clothes, tools but when it comes to actually finding the loot it becomes difficult. Take for example the mindset of a bambi trying to survive "ok one of the important tools i need for survival is a knife or some sort of sharp object. theres a tool shed looking building over there that must have something that suits that job!....raincoat....ok next shed...duct tape....hmm maybe these sheds dont spawn those items?...one more try....wool coat....huh ok." Idk the game felt a lot more straight forward back then but now idk. But yea no balancing and adjustments have been made yet so hopefully when they do it'll be a lot better.

Edited May 22, 2018 by DannyDog

[Funkmaster Rick 373]

Making it easy to meet up with your friends makes it easy for roving clans of 12-year-olds to group up en masse in virtually no time, ensuring that a roving clan of 12-year-olds can effectively beat into submission any other smaller group. They would have no legitimate competition due to their ability to respawn in close proximity. Your average RC12 would be able to apply the same pressure to a location that a zombie horde does, except much deadlier, much louder, and possibly with fewer manners.

Now, this is an extreme example and does not represent the average outcome. It deliberately represents one of the worst possible outcomes to show you why it's a bad idea to make it easier for people to meet up. Whenever you make something easier, you have to consider the rippling effects of that from the perspective of the lowest common denominator. As nice as it would be to be able to meet up with your friends, we've already seen a significant amount of evidence over the years that groups of people playing DayZ will focus on the group at the expense of the game. What I mean by this, specifically, is that in the past we've all seen big fights where the first people to die actually return to the fight before its over, loot their own bodies, and resume fighting.

To me, DayZ is not a game about survival, not a game about PvP, and certainly not a game about crafting. It's not even a game about exploration! It's a game about immersion, and all the other aspects of the game are there to enable and enhance that immersion. And nothing kills immersion more quickly than some jackass running back to his body in a fight with the mindset of getting revenge for dying.

Not to mention that easily locating your friends would give groups an even bigger advantage against solo players than they already have. And as someone who remembers a time when 12-year-olds ran rampant across the game, excited to be like their favourite streamer, killing fresh-spawns for their pitiful loot, moving in great hordes of unskilled but obnoxious players, hand-cuffing travellers and shouting at them in a manner not unlike psychological torture (and not uncuffing or killing them unless they submit in some embarassing way), I've developed the opinion that barriers to ease of access are a very important part of the DayZ experience. This isn't a game that makes it easy to meet up with your friends. This is a game that makes it hard to do things, because those things are hard.

Edited May 22, 2018 by Funkmaster Rick

[Sqeezorz 839]

There is only one point I could imagine: Someone new to the game (0h on steam) gets the easier spawns in the first few hours of playtime. within sight of civilization. Dayz does not need more to experience it.

[Mantasisg 172]

16 hours ago, Funkmaster Rick said:

Making it easy to meet up with your friends makes it easy for roving clans of 12-year-olds to group up en masse in virtually no time, ensuring that a roving clan of 12-year-olds can effectively beat into submission any other smaller group. They would have no legitimate competition due to their ability to respawn in close proximity. Your average RC12 would be able to apply the same pressure to a location that a zombie horde does, except much deadlier, much louder, and possibly with fewer manners.

Now, this is an extreme example and does not represent the average outcome. It deliberately represents one of the worst possible outcomes to show you why it's a bad idea to make it easier for people to meet up. Whenever you make something easier, you have to consider the rippling effects of that from the perspective of the lowest common denominator. As nice as it would be to be able to meet up with your friends, we've already seen a significant amount of evidence over the years that groups of people playing DayZ will focus on the group at the expense of the game. What I mean by this, specifically, is that in the past we've all seen big fights where the first people to die actually return to the fight before its over, loot their own bodies, and resume fighting.

To me, DayZ is not a game about survival, not a game about PvP, and certainly not a game about crafting. It's not even a game about exploration! It's a game about immersion, and all the other aspects of the game are there to enable and enhance that immersion. And nothing kills immersion more quickly than some jackass running back to his body in a fight with the mindset of getting revenge for dying.

Not to mention that easily locating your friends would give groups an even bigger advantage against solo players than they already have. And as someone who remembers a time when 12-year-olds ran rampant across the game, excited to be like their favourite streamer, killing fresh-spawns for their pitiful loot, moving in great hordes of unskilled but obnoxious players, hand-cuffing travellers and shouting at them in a manner not unlike psychological torture (and not uncuffing or killing them unless they submit in some embarassing way), I've developed the opinion that barriers to ease of access are a very important part of the DayZ experience. This isn't a game that makes it easy to meet up with your friends. This is a game that makes it hard to do things, because those things are hard.

I disagree majorly with this post. Hordes of 12old real life zombies sounds fun for me lol. Not that I have ever seen anything like that. I probably saw more than five players in one place in my playtime two or three times, and it was awesome to me. Obviously the larger the group, the less common it will be in such game, thats just how it is. All this nonsense about immersion, I get it - it is immersive for you what is in your head what should be immersive. To me "hordes" of players sounds very immersive, because in apocalyptic world many gangs and criminals would rise, and they would actually be the major threat, I suppose. 

Your whole post is about how unimmersive to you is to meet other people frequently, let alone more than few. It is based on purely your imagination, and it is sad to see that this way of thinking is very supported here, not surprisingly, as the game was like that for two years.

Regarding to looting corpses, I see no difference who would do it and join the action the player himself, his firend, me, some random player if lucky, or no one... 

Also your understanding of "hard" is very double sided. You say that it has to be hard, IMO it is hard and great challenge to be confronted by a group of players, you say that they should have a hard time gathering, so the game would actually be easier to you.

I think you will still be able to have this kind of experience I see you love, by hiding somewhere deep inlands, I see no big issue if the game will be not your kind around the coasts and military zones and paths to them, stay away from them and you'll have your immersion of seeing next to no people during your gameplay. You'll have your nice things, and I'll have mine.

[Mantasisg 172]

18 hours ago, Gobbokirk said:

I didn't say you did either ;)
The thing is that every time people bring up bikes and cars it sounds like they expect to spawn with them, so that's a general observation, not saying that's your idea.

Time isn't a challenge in it self, but if spending 20mins getting basic gear while a couple of friends are working their way towards a meeting point is too much work I surely hope there will be a lot of disappointment for them.
Has nothing to be with being a challenge guard, tbh that statement is borderline childish.
People have different tastes, luckily not all developers cater to the majority, if they did we'd be getting another BR game after all.

How many bikes? 15 cars 25 bikes/motorbikes is more than enough for a 100 player map in my book.
Whats the point with a large map if everyone gets a vehicle? Might as well just make a smaller map...

20mins would be kool to begin a basic level. 

Not a challenge guard, but pseudo-challenge guard, a challenges which actually eliminates other greater challenges. Like for example, never being outnumbered because people just would have too hard time to group up. 

People indeed has different tastes, and I think DayZ has a potential to meet them all, having the world adjusted in particular way that different areas would provide different pace and kinds of events.

I'd say 25/bikesandmotorbikes would be rather lowish, because half of them would be never found and hidden somewhere, so I'd say there should be 50, because only 50-80percent of them would be actively used. I just assume the percentage. I think it would be fair if 1/3 players would have an access to vehicle, but it is a bit optimistic to say that every vehicle in the map will be available and being used, so there could be more of them, and not all would be found, or ready to use anyway. 

Smaller map in DayZ would be indeed interesting, really looking forward to Namalsk. As well as 100players stress testing, and possibly stable servers experience. 



 

Edited May 23, 2018 by Mantasisg

[Gobbokirk 546]

1 hour ago, Mantasisg said:

20mins would be kool to begin a basic level. 

Not a challenge guard, but pseudo-challenge guard, a challenges which actually eliminates other greater challenges. Like for example, never being outnumbered because people just would have too hard time to group up. 

People indeed has different tastes, and I think DayZ has a potential to meet them all, having the world adjusted in particular way that different areas would provide different pace and kinds of events.

I'd say 25/bikesandmotorbikes would be rather lowish, because half of them would be never found and hidden somewhere, so I'd say there should be 50, because only 50-80percent of them would be actively used. I just assume the percentage. I think it would be fair if 1/3 players would have an access to vehicle, but it is a bit optimistic to say that every vehicle in the map will be available and being used, so there could be more of them, and not all would be found, or ready to use anyway. 

Smaller map in DayZ would be indeed interesting, really looking forward to Namalsk. As well as 100players stress testing, and possibly stable servers experience. 



 

I am looking forward to other maps as well, even the old Utes mod had its moments even if it was a giant deathmatch. But those can also be fun :)

In the end I am pretty sure not a single soul, including all the devs will be 100% satisfied, too many variables for that, but as long as its fun it doesn't have to be perfect, nothing really is.

50 bikes would probably be fine as well, if they are spread out properly, say 2 on average in Elektro, 3 in cherno and similar in the other larger cities, then maybe 50% on average for one to spawn in the little villages.
Best bet will ofc be to mix it up during EXP and Beta, try out and see where the balance is.

[☣BioHaze☣ 7337]

23 hours ago, Mantasisg said:

In my opinion. Anything what is inefficiently time consuming, that seems like there is no end is grinding.

FYI - the definition of grinding is not my opinion and your efforts to belittle a challenge as tedious have no place in DayZ.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grinding_(gaming)

[Lexman61 78]

1 hour ago, ☣BioHaze☣ said:

FYI - the definition of grinding is not my opinion and your efforts to belittle a challenge as tedious have no place in DayZ.

At times, DayZ's gameplay does indeed feel exceedingly slow and somewhat tedious especially during those "walking marathons" to reach particular areas or locating friends playing on the same server.

Whether some actions are to be labelled as "challenging" or "tedious" is a matter open to many and varying interpretations depending on your play style. A hardcore survivor game doesn't necessarily have to mimic all the characteristics of a flight simulator to be "immersive", "challenging" or "realistic". After all, it's a video game not a Navy Seal training program.

Regards

 

Edited May 23, 2018 by Lexman61

[☣BioHaze☣ 7337]

48 minutes ago, Lexman61 said:

Whether some actions are to be labelled as "challenging" or "tedious" is a matter open to many and varying interpretations depending on your play style.

And some challenges, whether viewed as tedious or not due to play style, will be hardwired into getting started in Vanilla DayZ.

Navigation and basic solo survival tactics should be a major component of the core skills of any DayZ enthusiast.

Many factors not yet in play will change much of this as well.

Bases/camps/stashes and vehicles to name a couple.

The people who want to teleport to their friends are usually the same people who can't be bothered to build a fire when standing around in jeans, and a flannel shirt, in freezing rain. If you can't adapt, or lack patience to learn, you're likely playing the wrong game.

Edited May 23, 2018 by ☣BioHaze☣

[Lexman61 78]

10 minutes ago, ☣BioHaze☣ said:

The people who want to teleport to their friends are usually the same people who can't be bothered to build a fire when standing around in jeans, and a flannel shirt, in freezing rain. If you can't adapt, or lack patience to learn, you're likely playing the wrong game.

Yes, immediate respawn by a friend would not be acceptable, but I'm sure some kind of golden middle way between "teleporting" and a "marathon" is conceivable without altering significantly the game play.

In view of the persistent low player count of DayZ  I think the developers should take into account a few appropriate modifications which could encourage a greater numbers of players to join. This probably also includes making some changes the more orthodox wing of the DayZ players are against in favor of a broader player base. 

I reiterate my belief that DayZ should ultimately neither turn into the exasperating equivalent of a "flight simulator" nor become a slower paced version of PUBG. But a larger player base is absolutely necessary to ensure both a better gaming experience and a long lasting future for the game.

Regards

 

[☣BioHaze☣ 7337]

2 hours ago, Lexman61 said:

In view of the persistent low player count of DayZ

Um, you like to say this but the recent weekend long stress test featured nearly 7k players all in game at one point and had queues that were in the 30's.

I sat in queue for nearly 30mins from #17 to get into a 1PP server.

And there were as many servers up as any experimental build has had in the past.

If that's any indication of future participation, servers will be jam packed for Experimental as well....

[cirkular 178]

Well, I also think that majority of people wanting closer spawns/re-spawns near their friends are either :

1. Just plainly wanting to have a good game night with friends after a hard days school/work, despite of dying a few times maybe - which is understandable

2. Just looking for a quicker revenge for their demise, be it fair and square or "unjust". It's just their way of playing the game.

But let's not forget these vehicles. They might turn up pretty good and relatively easy to acquire and get to them. I agree that the solo ability should be in the first place, before easily meeting up with friends. They might make something like those closer spawn areas for the time being, but I'd wait for vehicles feature to get implemented back and then see what's to be done to have some even better game play.

[bfisher 561]

As a long-time player of DayZ, I feel like the ability to spawn with your friends or anywhere besides "random" is against the spirit of what DayZ is about.  You should start each game in the role of someone who just washed up on a beach with no idea where they are or where their friends might be.  You need to SURVIVE long enough to meet up with your friends before you earn the right to go skipping tra-la-la with them through Cherno.

It also adds to the "real consequences" aspect of the game if dying means a 40 minute walk to reunite with your pals.

But maybe that's just me.  IMHO what makes DayZ different is that it is long periods of almost boredom dealing with the grind of survival, punctuated by moments of shear terror, followed with either celebration or throwing your keyboard in frustration.  There are plenty of other games out there for just spawning in with your team and going at it.

[emuthreat 2837]

I think this topic has derailed quite a bit.  Here, let me get it back on track.

On 5/19/2018 at 10:56 PM, haydaman712 said:

With the removal of the suicide by rags it's a chance game with receiving a spawn that you desire.

OP is upset that the RAG GLITCH is no longer in the game.
Basically, some people have become accustomed to abusing a bug in an unfinished version of the game to get a more desirable spawn. 
The complaint is literally that sometimes it takes a long while before one can find an easy way to die;  in a survival game; for the purpose of meeting up with another player--of which the location is already known due to the use of TS/Discord or text messaging services.

On 5/19/2018 at 10:56 PM, haydaman712 said:

As of right now the only way to get a new spawn is to die.

As has always been the case, the only way to get a new spawn is to die.  And without an abusable broken quirk of the old player controller, this can no longer be reliably done within 5 seconds of spawning.

This topic is a non issue. Sorry.