Humanity in DayZ - Concept Video by "uncuepagamer"

[elvisarhs 49]

 Dear Survivors,

In the SR on the 27th of February, our great CM BatyAlquawen, showed the community a great Humanity System Concept Video by a fellow DayZ survivor and youtuber "uncuepagamer". The video illustrates what his vision for such a system looks like and how it might work in DayZ SA. This is probably one of the best videos I've ever seen regarding DayZ mechanics and I truly believe that it deserves more attention by the community and developers.
 While not everybody can say that they are 100% on board with everything that "uncuepagamer" suggests in his video, I think that his idea with a bit of polishing can work out great in DayZ. I understand that such mechanics can make the game a bit more "difficult" for some people to comprehend at first, but DayZ is not a game which you can just play for 30 min like PUBG and be like "I am done for tonight". I am also aware that the devs are hesitant to add more complicated mechanics in the game so that they won't alienate the community, but if we really think about what we have seen in this video "Humanity in Dayz", we can easily understand how these new mechanics can work with the ones we already have in DayZ SA.

Just like Ms. BatyAlquawen asked in the SR, What does the community think about this Humanity Concept? Please, share your thoughts.
 

 

Edited March 3, 2018 by elvisarhs
video addition

[The Ghost of Hoik 92]

I would definitely like to see at least some of the proposed mechanics (if not all) experimented with within Dayz. I like the subtly of most the mechanics and the complexity of their interactions and I think that if we were to go down the humanity route that complexity is necessary. I also like that it gives the players a way to use their 'intuition' (through close observation) to gauge other players overall demeanour.  

[Lasyen 12]

3 hours ago, The Ghost of Hoik said:

I would definitely like to see at least some of the proposed mechanics (if not all) experimented with within Dayz. 

Hell, even if none were implemented, I'm sure as hell someone would later on in mods (if a parameters such as the ones shown can be implemented externally.) As much as the video gets thorough and very far down the rabbit hole of ideas, I'm very much on board.

[DannyDog 532]

1 hour ago, Kingfisher said:

Hell, even if none were implemented, I'm sure as hell someone would later on in mods (if a parameters such as the ones shown can be implemented externally.) As much as the video gets thorough and very far down the rabbit hole of ideas, I'm very much on board.

It's like one of the first things i'm going to mod in. That and probably more sound mechanics or better cooking.

[-Gews- 7443]

"What we need is a system that ... punishes trigger happy folk ..."

"... but most of all, punishing killing without reason."

I don't like systems that punish specific play styles. Especially when that play style happens to be my usual.

I also don't want to have to balance time spent killing people with time spent strumming on a guitar. Don't wanna be playing Tamagotchi. 

[DannyDog 532]

9 hours ago, -Gews- said:

"What we need is a system that ... punishes trigger happy folk ..."

"... but most of all, punishing killing without reason."

I don't like systems that punish specific play styles. Especially when that play style happens to be my usual.

I also don't want to have to balance time spent killing people with time spent strumming on a guitar. Don't wanna be playing Tamagotchi. 

Wouldn't the current damage system imply that the devs wanted to punish KOS or killing without reason because a couple of bullets and all the gear is ruined?

And at this point, what kind of game DO you like? I'm all for any system that makes the game more fun (which is entirely subjective i know). But thats why we'll get modding :)

Edited March 4, 2018 by DannyDog

[GaryWalnuts 1680]

IMO the humanity presentation is a good idea as the KOS vs Kumbaya argument just seems to frustrate everyone.  And simply drawing lines at PVE Server or PVP Server isn't a satisfactory solution either.  With modding soon to be released that dreaded "split the community" event seems to be teetering on the event horizon too.  I like that the devs stepped up and put this out there in the official status report.  It's an acknowledgment that in-game interaction is still lacking and needs ... something. I think as soon as modding and server files are released this something is one of the first things that modders will try to tackle and that'll lead to variants trying to balance the PVE/social interaction/PVP.   Personally, I'd rather see the devs try to integrate some model (humanity, or something like it) directly into vanilla and at least lay the framework down.   Heck, by that time server files will be released and if we truly don't like it then we can just set humanity=0 in our server.cfg

[Dancing.Russian.Man 1631]

1 hour ago, GaryWalnuts said:

Personally, I'd rather see the devs try to integrate some model (humanity, or something like it) directly into vanilla and at least lay the framework down.   Heck, by that time server files will be released and if we truly don't like it then we can just set humanity=0 in our server.cfg

"Humanity" as it was was dropped for a reason. I would not want to see the devs spend the effort to implement a "basic framework" for humanity. The framework is already being laid out and it's the ability to add custom scripts. 

Note: I'm not absolutely against a humanity system, but I don't want the old system or anything similar. 

Edited March 4, 2018 by Dancing.Russian.Man

[GaryWalnuts 1680]

1 hour ago, Dancing.Russian.Man said:

The framework is already being laid out and it's the ability to add custom scripts. 

I'm of the mind that devs have better control, resources and testing ability than the modders would and therefore would be able to create better systems  - but maybe I'm not giving modders enough credit.   For what it's worth I'm not necessarily for any specific humanity system either.  I think this video was presented thoughtfully as not to eliminate KOS, which is one of things I liked about it.  As much as I hate when it happens to me and I don't KOS other players (unless I'm in an unexpected cqc that leaves me open defensively with no time to talk), I think it's important that KOS always remains a genuine threat in-game.  It's what keeps us all in constant tension, that we're never completely safe.   And as @-Gews- points out in these threads, which I happen to agree with:  forcing play-styles is a bad thing.  I'd like to see a system that lends itself to or promotes more neutral interactions - not one that promotes Kumbaya or attempts to eliminate KOS.  More gray area, that's what I'd like to see.  Just my 2c.

[Dancing.Russian.Man 1631]

3 hours ago, GaryWalnuts said:

I'm of the mind that devs have better control, resources and testing ability than the modders would and therefore would be able to create better systems  - but maybe I'm not giving modders enough credit.

Good scripting/modding tools always provide a way to thoroughly test your mod.

And if I recall correctly, the devs themselves use scripted tools in-game to monitor things and make some changes, such as the new loot spawn point system we were shown last year. I think the new damage system gifs showcased in the latest status report were showing some in-game scripted dev tools, including visualizing the bullets. There's more from other dev streams/videos, but none off the top of my head.

I should also point out that large parts of DayZ are now scripted with Enscript, rather than "under the hood" like in ARMA. DayZ is a lot more like Take On Mars (which uses the same scripting engine, for example) on that regard.

Slightly off-topic but I hope this gives some comfort about the flexibility of the modding tools we'll have to create these overarching systems like the one suggested by Uncuepagamer.

Edited March 4, 2018 by Dancing.Russian.Man

[elvisarhs 49]

I am myself not a huge fan of forcing a certain playstyle. Killing on sight will always be a thing and it should remain this way, what should change is the pre shooting mentality of people, there should always be a pre thought before you take a shot at a player.
I never shot a player just for the kill, I have hunted players for literally hours just for a single opportunity on a clean kill shot, but they have either been expressing hostility towards friendly survivors or just playing mad.

Having systems like Nutrition and Addiction are needed in DayZ, I believe. I am not certain how a "Mental Health" will work itself out, but having certain animations tight to soft skills, is something I can see working.
Lets talk about Nutrition:
- Eating canned food should remain a valid nutritional option, but not the best. Overeating canned food or food in general should hurt your character, less energy, stamina, etc. Even sickness.
- Eating cooked food (different meats, vegetables, rice, bread, etc.) in a healthy diet, should be the best way to get proper nutrients. Eating good should benefit your character, more energy and stamina, being able to carry more stuff while loosing less stamina.
- Drinking water should be even more vital to a survivor in the vastness of Chernarus and combining water in a health diet should be as crucial as it is in real life.
- Drinking carbonated drinks should be just a quick boost of energy, but overusing them should harm your players health, just like overeating bad food. Energy drinks should world similarly, but with a bigger effect and even more punishing if you over use them.
(Trying to keep your character healthy and on a good diet will lead to hunting, agriculture, etc. and doing such activities will lead to more player interactions, because atm. people are neglecting most of the wild life. Shooting an animal can reveal your position so people avoid doing such things.)
Now Addiction:
- Over drinking energy drink should be addictive and doing that should lead to harmfull effects on your character, just like in real life. ( I have myself been addicted to caffeine and it isnt pleasant)
- If we ever get alcohol in DayZ, it should work just like in real life, consuming small amounts of it should be ok, but overusing it should be really harmful.
- Cannabis/Shrooms - smoking it should lead to euphoria, just like in the video, everything should look more vibrant, but also it might lead to paranoia, which will make your character hear things that arent happening and overly exaggerating sounds like gunfire, wild life, weather, etc.
- Drugs: Morphine, Epinephrine, Painkillers, antibiotics, vitamins - Huge effect on your character positive and negative. ( some might have similar effect to cannabis and even greater and more immediate/strong effects)
Addiction can have associated animations with the state, like nervousness, over alertness, even mumbling without reason.

Lets keep the discussion going!

[Aquanoise 33]

This is what we need

 

[Sqeezorz 839]

14 hours ago, elvisarhs said:

Snip....

Having systems like Nutrition and Addiction are needed in DayZ, I believe. I am not certain how a "Mental Health" will work itself out, but having certain animations tight to soft skills, is something I can see working.
Lets talk about Nutrition:
- Eating canned food should remain a valid nutritional option, but not the best. Overeating canned food or food in general should hurt your character, less energy, stamina, etc. Even sickness.
- Eating cooked food (different meats, vegetables, rice, bread, etc.) in a healthy diet, should be the best way to get proper nutrients. Eating good should benefit your character, more energy and stamina, being able to carry more stuff while loosing less stamina.
- Drinking water should be even more vital to a survivor in the vastness of Chernarus and combining water in a health diet should be as crucial as it is in real life.
- Drinking carbonated drinks should be just a quick boost of energy, but overusing them should harm your players health, just like overeating bad food. Energy drinks should world similarly, but with a bigger effect and even more punishing if you over use them.
(Trying to keep your character healthy and on a good diet will lead to hunting, agriculture, etc. and doing such activities will lead to more player interactions, because atm. people are neglecting most of the wild life. Shooting an animal can reveal your position so people avoid doing such things.)
Now Addiction:
- Over drinking energy drink should be addictive and doing that should lead to harmfull effects on your character, just like in real life. ( I have myself been addicted to caffeine and it isnt pleasant)
- If we ever get alcohol in DayZ, it should work just like in real life, consuming small amounts of it should be ok, but overusing it should be really harmful.
- Cannabis/Shrooms - smoking it should lead to euphoria, just like in the video, everything should look more vibrant, but also it might lead to paranoia, which will make your character hear things that arent happening and overly exaggerating sounds like gunfire, wild life, weather, etc.
- Drugs: Morphine, Epinephrine, Painkillers, antibiotics, vitamins - Huge effect on your character positive and negative. ( some might have similar effect to cannabis and even greater and more immediate/strong effects)
Addiction can have associated animations with the state, like nervousness, over alertness, even mumbling without reason.

Lets keep the discussion going!

Exactly these considerations make sense. It is the question between not too little and not too much. To keep the balance in order to keep the character vital. The same applies to the mentioned drugs (medics) or Cannabis / mushrooms. There should be situations where these items help you to get from a bad status to a better status. Abuse should have the opposite effect. For example: your character has a severe infection .... your vision becomes cloudy or blurry, painkillers / mushrooms or cannabis heal your "feeling" symptoms. This leaves a lot of room for interaction, as it can heal the negative effects more quickly, but it should also be possible without surviving, just with more caution and effort.

Add:

We experience the mental value of ourselves, the actions / actions will make our character live healthier or sicker. It does not dictate any direct action with other players .... someone can help you ... and in the conclusion the helper can be shot right at the same time. Everyone must always be aware of this, DayZ never gives you the security.

Edited March 5, 2018 by Sqeezorz
typo/add

[elvisarhs 49]

Exactly, having a general system like "Mentality" isn't needed, because the idea of DayZ is to get involved in the game, to "transfer" your consciousness in the world of DayZ, in the vessel of your avatar/character. Having such a system will take away from the experience and this is something we do not want. RPing is a massive part of DayZ and even if we do not RP as strictly as specific communities, we have done it a few times ourselves. Trying to build story around your character is something that makes the whole experience slightly more enjoyable and immersive.

 About Nutrition and Medication:

Let's say, you are unable to afford cooked food for you character for whatever your reasoning is, lack of ammunition, lack of proper tools, RP reasons, etc. Using canned food as your primary diet with the addition of vitamins, should be a way to get similar effect to cooked food with good meat/veg diet, but the over consumption  of vitamins should lead to negative effects like, nausea, diarrhea, stomach pain and eating food while in this state should make the effects of the illness even stronger and lead even to death if not properly take care of.
I strongly believe that hunting, cooking and agriculture should be the end goal for character maintenance, not the canned goods.

Drinking water should be the most important task that your character has to do constantly, I understand that atm. the reason why our characters require less water that usual, is the lack of proper transportation around chernarus, but when the game is ready and this is no longer an issue, water should be the most important thing for your characters survival.
Like in the wild, most of the places you are most likely to find animals are the ponds, rivers, etc. It should work the same way in DayZ, for both animals and players, water is the key to survival. This will lead to more character interactions, both PVP and possible trade or just general meet/greet situations.

In the video, clothing was discussed for a bit and I would like to share my ideas as well.

Clothing:
Different types of clothing like, water proof, water resistant should work the best under their specifications. Rainy weather, Stormy weather.
Clothing like Bomber jackets, Coats or simply clothes that are providing a certain amout of thermal insulation or simply thick layers, should work the best in a cloudy or cloudy/sunny(mixed) weather, even light rain. But wearing worm clothes should make your character loose water faster and if not properly addressed, your character might feel dizzy, experience blur vission, etc. Using non water resistant/proof clothing in heavy showers, storms should have a negative impact as well, possible cases of hypothermia if not properly addressed.
Shoes:
- Running shoes/Sneakers, Leather shoes, etc. should be good for urban areas, but if you go on a hike or a long trip through the woods, etc. They should start degrading faster and even have the chance for a sprained ankle. Faster walking/running speeds in urban area and on uneven grounds, but with a way faster degradation speed and higher chance for traumas if used in a not ideal area. Almost no water insulation, very bad for rain/storm weathers. Over exposure to water should lead to hypothermia if not properly addressed.

- Hiking/Working shoes should be ideal for, of course, hiking, but not as good in urban area, less running/walking speed more noise generation. Better water insulation, than sneakers, but not ideal, over exposure to water should lead to hypothermia if not properly addressed.

- Military shoes (Combat and Jungle as well) should be the best and most balanced of all - Great Heat/Water Insulation. Really well build, very slow degradation speed compared to other shoe types and balanced walking/running speeds. The Best shoes in Chernarus.


If the weather and temperature systems change in the future and we can have proper temperature drops after long rain showers, storms or long sessions of sunshine and heat, then we can have more complicated clothing effects, but for now simple mechanics like these are more than enough.

 What do you guys think?

 

[The Ghost of Hoik 92]

On 05/03/2018 at 2:21 AM, Dancing.Russian.Man said:

"Humanity" as it was was dropped for a reason. I would not want to see the devs spend the effort to implement a "basic framework" for humanity. The framework is already being laid out and it's the ability to add custom scripts. 

Note: I'm not absolutely against a humanity system, but I don't want the old system or anything similar. 

I guess so, but I think the fact that it was brought up in the status report means they are at least thinking about these type of systems - though we are using the word 'humanity' to encompass the topic I think what we are really asking for is more complex interactions between ourselves, the environment, and the things we find in it - and if that happens to say something about our 'humanity' all the better for it.

Other players are currently the biggest threat in dayz but this shouldn't remain the case - we should be getting ourselves into all sorts of horrible situations through carelessness, neglect, miscalculation or bad luck. To me, this should be a part of vanilla Dayz - not something to be modded in.

Edited March 5, 2018 by The Ghost of Hoik

[wype 13]

Quote

"What we need is a system that ... punishes trigger happy folk ..."

"... but most of all, punishing killing without reason."

Punishing KoS? wtf?

The Humanity video has some really great ideas, i like the parts about "comfort", "entertainment" and specially the part about "nutrition". Getting a bonus for eating different types of food sounds very reasonable. The usage for vitamins sounds awesome aswell.

But what i totally disagree with is the punishment for KoS, negative effects of addictions... kinda the whole part about mental health. It mostly serves the group of lonewolfing survivalists. Groups on the other side, who are out for PvP, would have to waste time with rather uninteresting things instead of being able to continue to fight others.  -Gews- summed it up pretty well:

On 4.3.2018 at 5:36 AM, -Gews- said:

I also don't want to have to balance time spent killing people with time spent strumming on a guitar. Don't wanna be playing Tamagotchi. 

I recommend a look at this amazing youtube clip by Ruskie - specially the final part, starting at 23:33. One of the best clips i know about the current situation...

Adding a punishment for KoS serves this "nomadic" playstyle a lot - but alienates a huge part of the people with a different playstyle. And i really think it would be healthy for the game to serve a wider audience, just like the mod did! Punishing KoS certainly won't do that!

Edited March 6, 2018 by wype

[elvisarhs 49]

While I don't really want this thread to focus on KoS, I understand that this particular discussion is a HOT one amongst the community.

Killing on Sight (KoS), should remain intact in the vanilla DayZ. No one can punish a player for killing another one in Chernarus, where there is no law that stands against KoS. The only thing that should and will punish KoS is the raw enviroment, nature of DayZ and of course other players.
 If the DayZ concept had a definition it would be a "Survival Race" - every person defines how he will engage in this race to survival but the finish line is all the same for everyone - death. 
I will tell you my first DayZ experience, that was in the early DayZ of SA - yes, I haven't played the mod, but I have watched tons of content on both youtube and twitch, but never played the Mod myself.
So this was my first DayZ experience unedited:

 "All of my friends were playing the game when it launched in late December 2013. I didn't like anything about the game, it was clunky, buggy, stiff, the character models looked really bad, it looked "ass" from videos and streams. Maybe a month passed and my friends were still playing the game and I was getting really confused and slightly interested while this is happening to them, when I know that their attention span is not that great. A few more weeks passed and it was February and they were still playing...

One night, while hangind out in Skype, I asked for the steam account of one of my friends and I started downloading the game.
I asked my friend, what I should do now, in game, he told me to log in to a certain server, where they were playing constantly and so I did.
I spawned in Solnechny, knowing nothing about the game, I started running around trying to find anything to eat, drink and for self defense(weapons, etc.) I was running around mindlessly in the town, but managed to find a Lumbering Axe and a few canns of food, but now I was thirsty, so I asked my friend where I can find water, he told me too look around the town, because there is a water pump somewhere. There I was trying to find a water source for probably 10 min and finally I did. I drank as much water as I possibly could and head back to the main road and in like seconds two "gentlemen" came out of nowhere and asked me if I knew where they can find water, of course I told them that I will show them exactly where the water pump was. All three of us went to the water pump and the two gentlemen had their share of water and when they did, one of them went behind me while the other one was trying to keep my attention on me, they knew I was new to the game.
 While they were keeping my attention focused on a single one of them, the guy behind me jumped on me with his fists raised, in that moment I knew that they were after my axe. My adrenaline spiked insanely fast, I was literaly shaking, but I was as focused as ever! I managed to instantly kill the guy behind me with a single swing of the axe, but the guy infront of me managed to hit me a few times with his fist, then we started running around in circles trying to hit each other, but eventually I managed to kill him too.
I was instantly relieved and insanely scared at the same time, I never thought that this will happen to me on my very first every DayZ experiennce, but for good or bad this wasnt the end of my story.
 While I was recuperating from this experience, I heard a voice in the distantly asking for help, I had no idea what is going on, so I immediately went towards the sound of this voice.

I saw a man crawling on his hands on the main road and when he saw me he asked me for my help... he wanted me to kill him.
 He was crawling for miles after some bandit broke his legs, took his blood and even fed him rotten food, he didn't want to live anymore. I tried my best to help him out, but he wanted to die. I never thought this would happen to me in a game, but it did. I killed a guy out of mercy and by his request.
 After that I logged out in the forest and I tried to recuperate my real self, because the events that occured in the game really shook me.
The very next day I bought DayZ."

DayZ is not a simple game, it's an experience that we, the players, shape in ways we can't predict. KoS is a part of the game and it should remain as it is, in the vanilla DayZ. When modding hits, people can start enjoying different variations, "Fast Epoch", "Slow Epoch", etc. If KoS had negative impacts on your character, maybe my initial experience of DayZ would have been different and I might not have bought the game...

Lets keep the discussion going, please share your thoughts, ideas regarding mechanics like Nutrition, Addiction, Comfort or any other you might think of that can work in DayZ.

Edited March 6, 2018 by elvisarhs

[cirkular 178]

On 3/5/2018 at 6:37 PM, elvisarhs said:

Exactly, having a general system like "Mentality" isn't needed, because the idea of DayZ is to get involved in the game, to "transfer" your consciousness in the world of DayZ, in the vessel of your avatar/character. Having such a system will take away from the experience and this is something we do not want. RPing is a massive part of DayZ and even if we do not RP as strictly as specific communities, we have done it a few times ourselves. Trying to build story around your character is something that makes the whole experience slightly more enjoyable and immersive.

This is a very good point explained. I'd rather see the devs go in this direction and give us maybe a couple more options for that than what we have now. The "cannibal's cry" was real fun for me (still is) but it's kind of worn off now to this point, when everyone is informed and knows "what you've been doing". I think that this particular thingy was the devs' first peak at mental health system together with some fun.

Some points I made earlier here and couple of posts above for example, in regards to eventual "mental health system", were regarding better performance of your character. Such as aiming, shooting, reloading and generally doing things (more precise/less time). And on the opposite side, the performance would degrade if suffering addictions or side-effects from alcohol (if they get it in) and substances.

Of course, we'll see how deeper the devs can go into this. I was thinking it could enrichen the experience a bit more besides the now usual "energized/hydrated/healthy", the physical health system. 

I guess it's so easy to speak about this for us who've been playing it for some longer time now :) let's see what can we get in the vanilla, before the mods become available.

On 3/5/2018 at 6:37 PM, elvisarhs said:

...
I strongly believe that hunting, cooking and agriculture should be the end goal for character maintenance, not the canned goods.

Totally right, had the same idea like forever :) your fruit and vegetables - never forget!

On 3/5/2018 at 6:37 PM, elvisarhs said:

Shoes:
....

This is also great feature, which I think should be easy to tweak with wearability and that it should just need proper testing on experimental and stable servers. Additionally, the military boots, if best at everything, should be also generating different noise or just more noise like the hiking shoes you mentioned there. In general, definitely the more gear on you,  the more noise should be generated.

Edited March 6, 2018 by cirkular
added some more info

[Sqeezorz 839]

To the point with the shoes and the slow ruin by use. this mechanic should affect a lot of clothes. Clothes should be devalued by use, depending on posture ... so lying in the rain and crawl ... wears your clothes. Also, from the status damaged or badly damaged on clothes should lose their "values" (rain jackets are no longer tight or not so warm anymore). Also, the influence sizes of gloves and hats, have now too small impact.

A cowboy hat protects against wet in the rain (dry means warm) and in the sun it does not heat up so quickly. Gloves protect well from cold ... but in the heat they are torture.

I think it's just a lot of little things that can make something very big, it's the diversity.

//A can opener of a can of 100% in 2sec. opens your could be dead .... because someone else sees it ... because with a Huntingknife you can open a can with 98% ... but human it takes 15sec. !//

[cirkular 178]

@Sqeezorz  Yep. Those little cool details :)

[The Ghost of Hoik 92]

19 hours ago, wype said:

I recommend a look at this amazing youtube clip by Ruskie - specially the final part, starting at 23:33. One of the best clips i know about the current situation...

Adding a punishment for KoS serves this "nomadic" playstyle a lot - but alienates a huge part of the people with a different playstyle. And i really think it would be healthy for the game to serve a wider audience, just like the mod did! Punishing KoS certainly won't do that!

I watched the part of the video you recommended and though I think he has made some valid points it seems to me he is getting confused between what was vanilla Dayz MOD and the MOD's that spawned from it. When he says that Dayz MOD catered for many play styles and the stand alone only caters for one all he means is that the mod had, well... modding, and as yet the stand alone does not. 

Believe me both the vanilla mod and standalone versions have a clear and singular vision which is based around survival/realism - and only modding allow's such a broad interpretation of that vision -  this is one of the great things about dayz.

When modding arrives (which is basically what the guy in the video wants) all that diversity will come back on steroids. 

Edited March 6, 2018 by The Ghost of Hoik

[wype 13]

The reason i added the "the day dayz died" clip was to make a point against the punishment of KoS. It would mainly serve the nomadic singleplayer audience while other pvp focussed groups (aggressive solo players aswell) would not really benefit from it.

My point had nothing to do with mods.

And in Ruskies clip it was more about different kinds of playertypes than about having mods aswell.

16 hours ago, The Ghost of Hoik said:

Believe me both the vanilla mod and standalone versions have a clear and singular vision which is based around survival/realism

This is pretty much wrong. While the standalone has lots of nomadic features, the vanilla mod didn't focus on this playstyle as much. In worst case you need 15mins to get a gun with ammo, usually with a scope, when playing the mod. And you had to loot much less than you do on standalone. The gameplay had a much faster pace. Sure - it was possible to lead a nomadic playstyle, but if you were looking for a gunfight, you found it much faster than you do on SA.

I don't see the visions of mod and sa align too much - the nomadic survival is way more relevant on SA!

[The Ghost of Hoik 92]

6 hours ago, wype said:

My point had nothing to do with mods.

And in Ruskies clip it was more about different kinds of playertypes than about having mods aswell.

This is pretty much wrong. While the standalone has lots of nomadic features, the vanilla mod didn't focus on this playstyle as much. In worst case you need 15mins to get a gun with ammo, usually with a scope, when playing the mod. And you had to loot much less than you do on standalone. The gameplay had a much faster pace. Sure - it was possible to lead a nomadic playstyle, but if you were looking for a gunfight, you found it much faster than you do on SA.

I don't see the visions of mod and sa align too much - the nomadic survival is way more relevant on SA!

Let me first clarify, I completely agree that punishing KOS isn't something we want to see in DayZ! But... that does not mean I don't like logical consequences to your actions.

While your point might of had nothing to do with mods (and I get it), Ruskies video is most definitely about modding - his very first example of why dayz 'died' is to say that it hasn't got a end game, like epoc servers... his second (very long winded) example, also epoc. Fine, he liked the epoc mod, but it is far from the vanilla mod. Finally there is his 'friend' Danny who baffled him because he is still playing standalone - Ruskies then realises this must be because his friend (though given the a choice of many MODs) preferred liked to play vanilla mod < and this is the player base standalone is catering to...which is why it 'died'...  sigh

He divides players up into groups via mod preferences (mostly) for petes sake!

To me it is clear that Ruskies probably never played much of the vanilla MOD because its particular style of survival didn't appeal to him - unfortunately for him (and a lot of other people) dayz standalone is trying to enact the original vision of DayZ  and not the MODs!

Personaly it has been years since I played the mod and have no idea what the current build is like (would be great to hear how it has evolved from someone who has played it recently), so I can only go from what I experienced at the time and the information I gathered at the time. As far as I could tell Dean Hall wanted a 'hardcore' survival experience, both  PVP and PVE. It was to be a brutal 'anti-game'.

Rant over :P

Edited March 7, 2018 by The Ghost of Hoik

[BeefBacon 1185]

I actually kind of like this. At the very least the presentation is good, and I like that it focuses more on rewarding the player for good actions rather than punishing them for bad actions. That, I feel, is good game design. Bandits are punished, of course, but they receive small benefits as well so as to not completely ruin a playstyle. I'm not convinced by the bell curve that means that heroes have a smaller morality hit when they kill other player, but I do like the idea of the morality hit being directly impacted by the morality of your victim.

Besides that, I really like the comfort, nutrition and addiction systems outlined here. The nutrition and comfort systems are similar to points that I think I've brought up before, but these are much more fleshed out.

I was very, very skeptical to begin with. I've always opposed morality systems not because they're "too complicated" but because they're unfair. They can't possibly take into account every variable that leads to one player killing another. If you shoot somebody in self defence, you shouldn't be penalised for that. This system doesn't fully account for that sort of scenario, but it's much better than literally every other humanity system I've seen for DayZ. Hell, cut out the humanity impact of killing players and it becomes a system with no obvious gaping flaws. Comfort should absolutely be a thing. Nutrition should absolutely be a thing - players who pursue a healthy diet should have an advantage when compared to players who eat can after can of tactical bacon.

When it comes to complex systems like this, it is always better to reward than to punish. If a player doesn't want to participate in the nutrition system they shouldn't randomly suffer from heart attacks or have massively reduced stamina or anything like that, but players who do want to participate should get some nice bonuses. These ideas add a nice level of nuance and, for the most part, are very well thought out.

[-Gews- 7443]

On 3/3/2018 at 9:14 PM, DannyDog said:

Wouldn't the current damage system imply that the devs wanted to punish KOS or killing without reason because a couple of bullets and all the gear is ruined?

And at this point, what kind of game DO you like? I'm all for any system that makes the game more fun (which is entirely subjective i know). But thats why we'll get modding :)

"So, I really do think that [item degradation] combined with the restraint mechanic is going to allow us to at least make some inroads on that basic sort of shoot-on-sight mentality, because if you shoot a player, there's a real danger that you're actually going to destroy the items that they have on them."
-DayZ Devblog 7 September 2013

The item damage is a mild deterrent, not a punishment. It doesn't affect your character and it can be almost entirely avoided with a well-aimed shot.

 

I haven't seen devs suggest harming your character for killing people. But I don't think devs' intentions have much bearing in this discussion, anyways. No one has to agree with them!