The Melee combat....Worst shit i have seen in any game.

[Evilsausage 87]

So I got back to DayZ today, played the mod alot when it was new but standalone was unplayable due to all the lag.
However the new patch has changed that, It was also fun to finally be able to explore the new areas!

But what really took me out of the experiance was the melee combat. After all this time and the melee weapons are actually worse then they where in the mod.
Atleast then a axe worked like a gun back then, it hit stuff where you aimed, now it seems completely random if you hit or not. I could just be doing it wrong, but the other player i fought also couldn't hit shit.
We where running around like retards for nearly 10 mins before i finally won the fight. I was trying to aim at the body, at the head, at the legs, go close, attack further back and still it felt completly random when i actually got a hit on him.

 

I know arma isn't ment to have melee combat, but this is just silly I can't think of any other game that has worse melee then this. It also doesn't help when the zombies are buggy as hell and do weird spasm animations, If i die because of shit like this its just off putting. I really want to like DayZ again and im gonna give it some more time. Hopefully I can avoid going melee. Still this is soo bad....bad.........baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaad................................................................................bad..bad bad....very very bad.

 

[Whyherro123 2283]

First off: I agree. Melee combat is shit, it has been shit, and, unfortunately, it looks like it will remain to be shit. I most-certainly hope I will be wrong, but a couple of patches ago, Brian Hicks all-but-stated that the melee system was done.

My main problem with the melee system isn't that it is so poop, it is that 99% of the melee weapons in the game are useless. They either do so little damage, to the point where you would be better off not picking them up and just using your fists, or they are decent, but get overshadowed by the various axes. Axes are the go-to weapon of choice, because the swing arc is so predictable and because it deals some hefty damage.

The thing about melee weapons is that they swing in an arc. You have to pay attention to the arc of the swing, and connect the weapon to the target at some point in the arc for it to any damage. It doesn't just deal "hitscan" damage. Which is one reason why axes are so popular, they swing in a diagonal arc, to the point where you can either smash someone in the head, and even if you miss, you are likely to hit something. Other melee animations, like stabs and slashes, are "less effective".

[NewPlayer80 15]

No no no how could melee be finished if its broken.  This post will be closed or deleted because the mods delete all negative comments even the constructive criticism comments.  If you want the best chances of your post not being deleted and you want to know the best way to deliver criticism for the rest of your life learn to master the "complement sandwich."  The complement sandwich uses the fact that people always focus on your first and last comments.  So you give one complement, then the neg criticism, then finish with a complement.  Here is an example:

Dayz has really been coming along great.  I am so proud of you developers for all your hard work.

But, the melee system is the worst in the fucking world and must be fixed or you won't sell any more copies when the game is released.

That said, I absolutely love the new USMC pants you but in the game, the detail on them is absolutely amazing, you guys are very talented indeed. 

[Etherious 907]

Well, the reason the melee was better in the mod is because it actually "shot" a bullet. Also, I asked Hicks back at PAX South this year the same question. He said they would fix it later, although he didn't specify a date when.

[CORPRALWALDO 0]

how come all servers are password protected?????

[Whyherro123 2283]

9 minutes ago, CORPRALWALDO said:

how come all servers are password protected?????

I had the same problem, you have to go intl "filters" and uncheck the "passworded" box

[-Gews- 7443]

58 minutes ago, Evilsausage said:

After all this time and the melee weapons are actually worse then they where in the mod

19 minutes ago, DJ SGTHornet said:

Well, the reason the melee was better in the mod

Um... the mod? Melee? Better? Really?

Anyways, the standalone melee is currently pretty bad... but as you guessed, you are doing it wrong. Some people can be a real terror with the melee weapons.

[-Gews- 7443]

56 minutes ago, Whyherro123 said:

First off: I agree. Melee combat is shit, it has been shit, and, unfortunately, it looks like it will remain to be shit. I most-certainly hope I will be wrong, but a couple of patches ago, Brian Hicks all-but-stated that the melee system was done.

My main problem with the melee system isn't that it is so poop, it is that 99% of the melee weapons in the game are useless. They either do so little damage, to the point where you would be better off not picking them up and just using your fists, or they are decent, but get overshadowed by the various axes. Axes are the go-to weapon of choice, because the swing arc is so predictable and because it deals some hefty damage.

The thing about melee weapons is that they swing in an arc. You have to pay attention to the arc of the swing, and connect the weapon to the target at some point in the arc for it to any damage. It doesn't just deal "hitscan" damage. Which is one reason why axes are so popular, they swing in a diagonal arc, to the point where you can either smash someone in the head, and even if you miss, you are likely to hit something. Other melee animations, like stabs and slashes, are "less effective".

This is true, axes are the gold standard of standalone melee. That said, some other weapons have their uses. Fists, of course, are pretty great. In a one-on-one, you can cut a guy with a knife and just run around him until he bleeds out or commits suicide. Careful headshots with a sharpened stick is pretty effective as well (the other day killed two in Polana with this technique). Bow is neither melee nor firearm but is worth mentioning, as it is easily crafted and betters any hand-to-hand weapon as long as you don't get stuck. It also breaks down to a sharpened stick when you run out of arrows. Etc.

[Whyherro123 2283]

I haven't had that much success with knives, actually. Yes, they are good for making people bleed, but, mainly due to the time it takes for someone to actually bleed out in Day Z (fucking forever), I never really got too excited about having to chase people down and preventing them from bandaging

I never understood why a sharpened stick did less damage than a spear.

I love me some bows, though. People have a tendency to underestimate you, and the bow is an excellent ambush weapon. 

[Evilsausage 87]

8 minutes ago, -Gews- said:

This is true, axes are the gold standard of standalone melee. That said, some other weapons have their uses. Fists, of course, are pretty great. In a one-on-one, you can cut a guy with a knife and just run around him until he bleeds out or commits suicide. Careful headshots with a sharpened stick is pretty effective as well (the other day killed two in Polana with this technique). Bow is neither melee nor firearm but is worth mentioning, as it is easily crafted and betters any hand-to-hand weapon as long as you don't get stuck. It also breaks down to a sharpened stick when you run out of arrows. Etc.

Actually both me and him did use axes in the battle, yeah i have pretty much not played any Standalone DayZ since forever.  So my technique was no doubt shitty.
Still if i got a axe and im swinging it right through someone and it only hit sometimes then i call it BS. Its not ment to be rocket science, any FPS out there that i know of does this better then DayZ.

Im sure Veterans have learned all how to avoid worst of the glitchiness in melee, but it doesn't change the fact that it sucks. It looks shitty, it feels shitty and just so embarrasing to have something like this in game that has been in Alpha for like several years now.

[Etherious 907]

16 hours ago, -Gews- said:

Um... the mod? Melee? Better? Really?

Anyways, the standalone melee is currently pretty bad... but as you guessed, you are doing it wrong. Some people can be a real terror with the melee weapons.

No, I don't think it's better from the mod days. I was just saying "why" it is better from his perspective, because he didn't realize how they worked. Also, when there is a crap ton of desync, and lag...it does suck. xD 

[odin_lowe 3686]

The changes required for the "melee" combat to get better are pretty big, like in the new player controller. Without this, there's no point "fixing" something that will then be deleted, and redone. Counterproductive. 

Melee combat isn't broken or finished, it's a placeholder.

 

Edited June 16, 2016 by odin_lowe

[cornflakesx 3]

Alright. 0.60. Hype fps... Super good.... well its true on some point.

I have amazing 60 fps almost everywhere but when somebody starts a firefight with me i'm getting like 5-10 fps. And i'm dying ofc....

[Ben_uk 24]

I completely agree, the melee system is truly horrendous. It feels broken.

My "dream" is to have melee combat like it is in Left 4 Dead. That got melee really right in terms of ease of use and predictability etc.

Edited June 19, 2016 by Ben_uk
Not damning enough

[serelaw 17]

Amen. Good melee that in L4D2

[Mr_Joe 38]

Imagine if some day they could add a block\parry system with melee, or a shove.  Would be pretty amazing.

 

 

Of course tho, I can't imagine something like that with the current desync issues..

[Humanadam 0]

tell me a game that is better than standalone.i mean the melee fights

[Evilsausage 87]

7 minutes ago, Humanadam said:

tell me a game that is better than standalone.i mean the melee fights

It would be easier to name a game that is worse. but can't think of any atm.

[S3V3N 1402]

That's true. The engine clearly isn't made for melee. It has no regard for inertia, mass or speed. At least I'm glad the sounds are getting a complete overhaul, because I'm sick of hearing this "thumb" noise when I hit someone in melee. Still the same stupid sound like in the mod. We should hear screams of agony and bones crushing when we hit someone with an axe. Those screams should attract nearby enemies. Our screen/face should be splattered with blood in such melee situations and we should have to wash that blood off, in order to avoid infection.

The thing that always puzzled me is why then, they seem to put such an effort into making so many melee weapons, if hardly any of them get used. To be clear: I only use axes and occasionally a spiked baseball bat, but nothing else. So 98% of the melee weapons are completely lost on me. And yeah the battles are pretty ridiculous. Running around each other in circles is not what I would do in a real-life melee situation. So above all, the melee isn't only bad, it's also unrealistic. For a while I was waiting for a way to block or parry. Basically the simple rock-paper-scissors mechanic other games use. I'm not saying it is great (example: The Culling -> bad melee), but at least it would make melee more skill than luck based.

Idk, melee was probably never meant as a PvP mechanic that much. It's going to be useful when there are more infected around and you need to take some out quietly. That's probably the best reason to explain its current and future state. For PvP it is just the last straw, but for PvE it is actually useful.  

Edited June 20, 2016 by S3V3N

[Noctoras 409]

Granted, a refined melee system is useless, as long as guns are as easy to obtain as smarties in a supermarket. I don't like it, but I do understand the reasoning.

[Funkmaster Rick 373]

On 16/06/2016 at 11:04 AM, odin_lowe said:

Melee combat isn't broken or finished, it's a placeholder.

As far as I'm aware, it's not a placeholder. It's my understanding that Hicks has declared it Essentially Done.

We might get lucky and get some better animations for it with the new avatar controller, and these animations might make melee more predictable, but at the moment we might as well be running around with no pants and a fire extinguisher when it comes to hand-to-hand combat.

[torvak 2]

I think its the player movement that ruins the melee combat the most, your feet dont seem to connect with the floor and you move way too fast. Cant randomly disarm anyone, get dazed or react to pain, all ive noticed is broken legs or falling unconcious. As for swinging weapons, should just copy War of the roses combat with LMB and a direction to swing and RMB and a direction to block.

[anderswhk 23]

It's actually kind of hilarious when you get KO'd out of nowhere by a freshie with the brass knuckles. Melee will most likely not get any major changes besides better hit registration and tweaking, and im honestly fine with that.

Edited June 25, 2016 by anderswhk

[sneakydude 480]

On 6/15/2016 at 4:33 PM, Evilsausage said:

So I got back to DayZ today, played the mod alot when it was new but standalone was unplayable due to all the lag.
However the new patch has changed that, It was also fun to finally be able to explore the new areas!

But what really took me out of the experiance was the melee combat. After all this time and the melee weapons are actually worse then they where in the mod.
Atleast then a axe worked like a gun back then, it hit stuff where you aimed, now it seems completely random if you hit or not. I could just be doing it wrong, but the other player i fought also couldn't hit shit.
We where running around like retards for nearly 10 mins before i finally won the fight. I was trying to aim at the body, at the head, at the legs, go close, attack further back and still it felt completly random when i actually got a hit on him.

 

I know arma isn't ment to have melee combat, but this is just silly I can't think of any other game that has worse melee then this. It also doesn't help when the zombies are buggy as hell and do weird spasm animations, If i die because of shit like this its just off putting. I really want to like DayZ again and im gonna give it some more time. Hopefully I can avoid going melee. Still this is soo bad....bad.........baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaad................................................................................bad..bad bad....very very bad.

 

Well at least you didn't put your hand in shit :)

 

Yeah this melee is horrible, the hit boxes are way off no coding to offset the difference in lag. I thought the net coding was going to fix this part.

Is Bohemia like codewarriors? where they train new and fresh programmers, graphic artists all the good stuff we see in dayz and arma?

 

Dos netmech, mechwarrior 2 had better melee :) We are talking about in the early 90's

 

 

[Avant-Garde 229]

On 20/06/2016 at 8:05 AM, Humanadam said:

tell me a game that is better than standalone.i mean the melee fights

 

The thing with DayZ melee is that it has the basics of a very VERY nice mechanic, that is present in these games above. That would be the real time strike with melee, where you should use the swing animations to aim because they matter, different from L4D for example, where melee is hitscan and the animations means nothing at all, in games that use hitscan system for melee, you aim with the crosshair and where you aim is exactly where you are going to hit.

DayZ needs some sort of parry or dodge mechanic and reliable netcode to have decent melee combat, the first and second video I posted should give many arguments to why some sort of deffense mechanic is a must-have thing on melee combat. But before deffensive mechanics we need better animations, because you need to react to them if you are going to deffend yourself. Also we need balancing, because some weapons are usable while others are completely useless. Some are completely stupid even like the pitchfork, try to sidestrafe and attack at the same time with a pitchfork lmao 10/10

It would need a lot of love to be decent tbh, that is, if the netcode or engine even allow such thing to exist in the first place. But I do think that solid melee would make this game something else, ten times better and more interesting in my opinion. Melee fights are scary as fuck, and also very personal, you guys gotta play Chivalry if you haven't so you see what melee can be in first person shooters.