[Opinion] The Value of Base Building?

[Conrad_The_Comrade 577]

If anyone has played Life is Feudal, which by the way is an excellent game, that's how I'd like to see base building in DayZ, at least in reference to the effort and value of the base. For those of you who haven't tried LiF out, the game plays extremely slow, and is reliant on having a group to be successful.

-Base building should be a huge pain in the ass to do, but the reward would be tremendous. (In LiF you could build for months irl and still not have the biggest baddest base possible)

-You shouldn't be able to build entire colonies/cities. Why would you even want to, when the towns from before the shitstorm are still standing strong (Not considering cases in which planes hit, y'all get me)

              They should be be smaller camps, basically what was shown in the concept art.

-Loot would have to be way more scarce, as said before, otherwise you can just wander all the time and not worry about a thing

-Threats, we need more of them, whether they be zombies, wild animals, sickness, or the uninfected asshat with a gun. 

-I cannot stress this one enough, which is why I'm repeating myself, it NEEDS TO TAKE TIME. If you can build a base in a day, hell if you can build one in w eek (When you're solo), then it's too easy. For anything                       larger than a tent and campfire, you should need a team of people, or a lot of patience. (And if you play solo and want to complain about that being unfair, you're not forced to build a base)

 

All in all I want base building, but before that pleasure, I want it to get tough, we need more threats in our lil ole world of DayZ, and we just need less stuff. Loot needs to practically go away for the most part, as dramatic as that sounds.

[Buakaw 274]

Quote

we need more threats

We will have them. Infected will spawn dynamically and in big numbers.

Quote

Loot needs to practically go away

I think the 0.55 patch community backlash hasn't quite reached you.

Scarcity is not a solution nor is it good gameplay nor does it make sense nor is it immersive. I am sure someone will mod a server to your liking tho - so you can go searching for those kitchen knifes and taloon backpacks for hours on end.

[Zimorak 50]

1 hour ago, emuthreat said:

I have found and raided many bases in that exact location, (053,040).  It is not a good, or clever, place to put a base.  I can think of 4 better places, within the same ~800m radius from the airfield--places not readily visible from a road and a well.

The image i posted is not actually my base, but a image i simply grabbed off Google. The image was only there to provide emphasis as to what i would ideally want the developers to hold steady at, and not go any further than said image. To be more literal, i would rather not see base building. Just the ability to maybe place down a tent and a Stash. Let Mod makers do the rest when Modding compatability is released.

[emuthreat 2837]

I was fine with a tree clump full of barrles on .58.  I'm mostly okay with a half-dozen tents on .59, aside from their getting cleaned up by CLE.  I don't think basebuilding is going to really be taking any steps backwards in the future, but you can feel free mod yourself back to the stone age if you wish.

[Whyherro123 2283]

As a rebuttal to the post above that says you "shouldn't be able to build a camp in less than a week". I have built something very similar to the A-frame shelter video I posted above (basically, take the shelter and cut it in half lengthwise. It is called a "lean to"), by myself, in only a few hours.

A group of 4-8 people should be able to build a  rough 10 x 10 foot log cabin in a couple of days, if there are plenty of materials available. Same thing with finished lumber: If I've got 10 people sitting around one of those stacks of lumber you see in-game, there is no reason why you couldn't have them throw together a simple shack in a couple of hours. You don't need a degree to swing a hammer.

Granted, those above points only are in effect the materials are readily available. If you had to travel to where the trees were, cut them down, then drag them to the cabin-site, building that 10x10 cabin would take much longer. Same thing with finished lumber.

Yes, building a "base" should take some time, but it shouldn't be " Oh fucking COME ON"-levels of time. "Realistic". Not the " 3 boards, 10 nails and 30 seconds" of H1Z1, nor the "3 weeks of absofuckinglutely unnecessary grinding" that is LiF. 

As a related point: Life is Feudal is probably the most disappointing game I have ever spent money on. Badass opening movie, most disappointing gameplay ever. If I wanted to be an actual fucking Dark Ages peasant, I would go to my local RenFaire. In LiF, spears, fucking spears, the oldest and simplest weapons known to man, are locked behind several "trees" of skills, all of which have to be ground through.

Disgusting.

[Whyherro123 2283]

4 hours ago, Buakaw said:

We will have them. Infected will spawn dynamically and in big numbers.

I think the 0.55 patch community backlash hasn't quite reached you.

Scarcity is not a solution nor is it good gameplay nor does it make sense nor is it immersive. I am sure someone will mod a server to your liking tho - so you can go searching for those kitchen knifes and taloon backpacks for hours on end.

Says you. .55 (aka the "Starving Time") was literally the most fun I have EVER HAD when playing Day Z. It actually felt like an actual post-apocalyptic survival game.

.55 was rolled back because all the scum-sucking scrublets whined about how they couldn't find anything. Oh, and some (not all, but some) servers were broken (in a fucking Alpha game, things were broken. Imagine that?! /snerk). 

But mostly because the scrublets were crying.

[Buakaw 274]

Wait a second.. your two last posts seem a little contradicting.

Either way, I think it's safe to say that you are a very small minority that actually enjoys playing in an.. empty gameworld. Just glad that will never happen. And all servers with pers on were bugged in 55 fyi.

[Whyherro123 2283]

12 minutes ago, Buakaw said:

Wait a second.. your two last posts seem a little contradicting.

Either way, I think it's safe to say that you are a very small minority that actually enjoys playing in an.. empty gameworld. Just glad that will never happen. And all servers with pers on were bugged in 55 fyi.

How are they contradicting?

One post discusses how "building a base" should take a "realistic" amount of time, which would be largely dependent on how much material is located relative to the base location. Have plenty of people and materials on hand? A base shouldn't take all that long. Your clan is scattered out and you have to bring in materials from other locations? Its gonna take a while.

The second post was about loot scarcity. Day Z NEEDS to have loot-scarcity, or it will never be the game it is meant/supposed to be. And,no, not all servers in .55 were bugged. Some of them were, and didn't spawn anything. Others were not, and changed up the spawn locations and such, so that loot often didn't spawn in the "gun/food/clothing/XXXX-house" any more". There was still plenty of "stuff" to go around: people just didn't check the back sheds and other out-of-the-way places

Finally: there are plenty of people on this forum that think Day Z needs to "get harder". Most of the ideas revolve around lessening the amount of loot, to increasing the survival "difficulty", to making the medical system an actual, you know, a thing, as opposed to the bare-bones-as-hell "rag + antibiotics"-fest it has been for years now.

Edited February 29, 2016 by Whyherro123

[igor-vk 909]

4 hours ago, Whyherro123 said:

As a rebuttal to the post above that says you "shouldn't be able to build a camp in less than a week". I have built something very similar to the A-frame shelter video I posted above (basically, take the shelter and cut it in half lengthwise. It is called a "lean to"), by myself, in only a few hours.

A group of 4-8 people should be able to build a  rough 10 x 10 foot log cabin in a couple of days, if there are plenty of materials available. Same thing with finished lumber: If I've got 10 people sitting around one of those stacks of lumber you see in-game, there is no reason why you couldn't have them throw together a simple shack in a couple of hours. You don't need a degree to swing a hammer.

Granted, those above points only are in effect the materials are readily available. If you had to travel to where the trees were, cut them down, then drag them to the cabin-site, building that 10x10 cabin would take much longer. Same thing with finished lumber.

Yes, building a "base" should take some time, but it shouldn't be " Oh fucking COME ON"-levels of time. "Realistic". Not the " 3 boards, 10 nails and 30 seconds" of H1Z1, nor the "3 weeks of absofuckinglutely unnecessary grinding" that is LiF. 

 

You are right there. I didnt play HIZI but I played lot of Epoch, and carrying cinder blocks in backpack was so dicusting. We need to gather materials as close as it could be done in real life (you can carry only few boards at a time, and maybe one log. But you can load lots of materials in V3S. Also, there should be ready materials like wooden planks, tools, nails (there are woodmills on map) but those places should be filled with zeds or players.

3 hours ago, Whyherro123 said:

How are they contradicting?

One post discusses how "building a base" should take a "realistic" amount of time, which would be largely dependent on how much material is located relative to the base location. Have plenty of people and materials on hand? A base shouldn't take all that long. Your clan is scattered out and you have to bring in materials from other locations? Its gonna take a while.

The second post was about loot scarcity. Day Z NEEDS to have loot-scarcity, or it will never be the game it is meant/supposed to be. 

Finally: there are plenty of people on this forum that think Day Z needs to "get harder". Most of the ideas revolve around lessening the amount of loot, to increasing the survival "difficulty", to making the medical system an actual, you know, a thing, as opposed to the bare-bones-as-hell "rag + antibiotics"-fest it has been for years now.

Im dreaming of dayz where you have to spent days to get good gear.

[[DGN] Johnny 115]

I somehow feel a chunk of DayZ issues revolve around trying to cater to too may crowds without giving them their own realms. Something as simple as cutting the public hive into a rating system. Something as simple as "Easy, Veteran, Hardcore". Allowing only public servers of the same ratings to communicate with each other. And letting those types of players gravitate towards their preference of play.

Still, I have faith in the development team. Building a game and having the doors open through the Alpha process, is still some pretty new grounds in gaming history. Lot of players have no idea what an Alpha product is, and equally don't know how to react when they run into Alpha content. I do think there is a strong disservice in marketing this game currently, and the limited success of launch may have clouded the real possibility of what this game could generate both as entertainment and as revenue.

 

[[DGN] Johnny 115]

Still, love hearing all these views on the value of base building. Some really good thoughts in this thread.

[Noctoras 409]

15 hours ago, Buakaw said:

We will have them. Infected will spawn dynamically and in big numbers.

I think the 0.55 patch community backlash hasn't quite reached you.

Scarcity is not a solution nor is it good gameplay nor does it make sense nor is it immersive. I am sure someone will mod a server to your liking tho - so you can go searching for those kitchen knifes and taloon backpacks for hours on end.

You might want to think about playing grocery simulator 2013. Should feel almost like DayZ and maybe it even saves you the 5 minutes to your gun with matching ammo. Could prove very immersive, I always feel like in a supermarket when in WalMart or Tesco's, too. And yes, it does make much more sense that apparently Chernorussians have guns for breakfast, since the number of weapons is almost equal to the number of food items found in houses. Very immersive ... just as immersive as shoot, kill, die, rinse, repeat ...

 

11 hours ago, Whyherro123 said:

Says you. .55 (aka the "Starving Time") was literally the most fun I have EVER HAD when playing Day Z. It actually felt like an actual post-apocalyptic survival game.

.55 was rolled back because all the scum-sucking scrublets whined about how they couldn't find anything. Oh, and some (not all, but some) servers were broken (in a fucking Alpha game, things were broken. Imagine that?! /snerk). 

But mostly because the scrublets were crying.

True. Many kiddies and CoD lovers didn't like it, since the game for once had survival elements. But of the people posting on this forum currently, more people loved it than despised it. And many want the game to be a challenge apart from PvP as well. In this thread alone you find more people advoacting more survival than disliking it.

Edited February 29, 2016 by Noctoras

[Buakaw 274]

Arguably some stuff could be rarer and overall the balance could be altered as well as loot zones could be introduced.. oh wait, that is exactly what is happening right now. If houses having loot feels like a grocery store to you nocturas then I hate to break it to you, but Dayz will always feel like a grocery store to you.

But then again your complaints about "too easy" are kinda out of place.. infected and other AI threats are nowhere near final implementation, neither is the loot balance as mentioned above. So so glad this empty house crap is never going to happen, but keep making a fool out of yourselves by advocating it guys.

Edited February 29, 2016 by Buakaw

[sneakydude 480]

I am ok with carrying a barrel around with me all day moving site to site. As long as it holds some ammo and food and water i am good. This way i dont have to worry about offline base raiding, cheaters reaping the benefits from hard work,
and the amount of time sync to put into all of this and be destroyed by development decay, and those grieving methods. Plus it gives me more time to go hunting for the forum squad :)

OH and plant crops lol... sim farm anyone?

[Irish. 4886]

The value of base building is simple to explain... 

At one end of the player spectrum, simply staying alive is the key focus, at the other end finding something to do in game, that fills up your time, is the focus. Clans and groups tend to be in this category. Cars, gathering excess loot, making camps, etc.. all help players who have run out of things to do, find something to do. So base building has its value in that, and in that alone; it is simply something to do, that can and will fill up your time. 

Large clans will keep making their base bigger, or will make more bases. Players will be forced to protect them, while others try to search them out and steal their precious gear. Clans that want a short cut to building a base will raid one simply for the building materials. It goes on and on. It, like anything else in dayz is only there for players to choose if they want to take the time to do it. 

Now, with that said... taking the time to complain about base building.. assuming that things will be bad, or worthless... is a total waste of time. Because all it is about from the beginning, is time. Will base's take up players time? Yes. Does it have value in that, like anything and everything else in dayz? Yes. 

 

Simple stuff. 

[[Outcasts]Massacre 121]

23 hours ago, emuthreat said:

Not good enough to play game.  Buys a second copy as an offline loot locker.  Comes onto forums acting like something he say carries any weight at all, after outing himself as a cheater.  Priceless.

Hahaahahaha.. Right. How is having access to 2 DayZSA accounts cheating? One steam account is mine, one is my Gfs. Not my fault you life in your mommies basement without a significant other. Forever alone scrub detected.

[emuthreat 2837]

You might notice how I only said things about you that I had evidence to support; from your own words.  Where do you get your information regarding my living arrangements?  We are in entirely different leagues, my friend.  Maybe I was a bit severe in calling you a cheater.  You are just a garden-variety, exploiting, ignoramus; my mistake.  Feel better now?

If you wish to exchange insults and baseless speculation as to the whisker coverage of my neck, or the elevation of my computer, relative to the ground, please use PMs so as not to further clutter this topic.

Thanks, Your Future Stepdad.

[philbur 476]

Sheesh!

Glad I'm not in the crosshairs on this one!

But...I personally am going to get another copy of DayZ so people that come over to my place to hang out can jump on a second PC I have in my game room and share in the adventure. (I have sold a few copies this way already).

It does not mean I want a loot farm, emu. Agreed on the PM route, though... I love hanging around the Forum, but it sucks when we get carried away with personal BS (been guilty of that too).

I have a strong opinion of how base building should be implemented...but looks like I am way off track compared to the majority of other comments, so basically going to suck it up and try to figure out a way I can make it work to suit my playstyle. Ark and Rust just give me the wrong sense of immersion and I hope the Devs here go a route that is original and specific to the world of Chenarus, that's all.

[Buakaw 274]

They don't give the wrong immersion.. it's just that they are completely different games in completely different engines while we are talking survial realism hardcore in a simulation orientated engine.

Like I said, I feel the biggest questionmark regarding base building is actual player-/loot-/base safety. Because, you know, safety is ever so contradicting with the game concept and what makes it so outstanding. But then again, who wants to build a camp if it's gonna be torn to shreds once you go offline? Camp raiding will go way out of proportion once more vehicles enter chernarus.

Makes me really wonder whether something like Locks should be implemented. Maybe they should and there should be a really lengthy expensive process in which you can break them.

 

One major gripe I have with the game is realism tho.. the base concepts shown so far all have easily avoidable (as in: climb-able) walls. Would suck if you wouldn't be able to just climb those. Stuff like that is really immersion killing imo. Also I would love to be able to stand on my toes when for example in the old barracks showers to look out the high window. Hope that kinda stuff will be possible eventually.

 

Edited March 1, 2016 by Buakaw

[[Outcasts]Massacre 121]

1 hour ago, emuthreat said:

You might notice how I only said things about you that I had evidence to support; from your own words.  Where do you get your information regarding my living arrangements?  We are in entirely different leagues, my friend.  Maybe I was a bit severe in calling you a cheater.  You are just a garden-variety, exploiting, ignoramus; my mistake.  Feel better now?

If you wish to exchange insults and baseless speculation as to the whisker coverage of my neck, or the elevation of my computer, relative to the ground, please use PMs so as not to further clutter this topic.

Thanks, Your Future Stepdad.

Explain to me how I am exploiting anything when I have 2 accounts on 2 different steam installs on 2 different computers? We are in entirely different leagues indeed, I don't run my mouth and acuse people of being cheaters/exploiters without having proof. As for your whiskers, I never said that you are a basement dwelling neckbeard, I said you were a basement dwelling virgin. But apperently I was wrong seeing how you want to be my stepdad and my mom died several years ago that really leaves one option now doesn't it. But hey thats okay I'm all for the gay rights thing even tho I don't swing that way myself.

[emuthreat 2837]

10 minutes ago, [Outcasts]Massacre said:

Explain to me how I am exploiting anything when I have 2 accounts on 2 different steam installs on 2 different computers?

Well since you asked so nicely...

On 2/26/2016 at 3:38 PM, [Outcasts]Massacre said:

The storage thing doesnt really come into it since most of our important gear is stored on a offline character on a second account.

Using a second account as a means to store valuable items on an offline character.  Now I don't claim to be any authority on what is the definition an exploit, but using a second account to store your gear, rather than keeping it in physical storage where it may be vulnerable to loss, seems to meet my common-sense understanding of an exploit.

 

Little tip for the future, regarding the specific nature of the way you tried to insult me:  Only children think it is some kind of pwnage to call someone a virgin; once you get wet  a good few times, it loses much of that pre-adolescent veneration and wonderment.  Maybe next time keep your criticism linked to reality, or more preferably, the content of my posts.

Also, sorry about that whole stepdad thing; you can tell your pops I'm not interested, but thanks for the offer.

 

Now if you would be so kind as to let the base building discussion be about base building, rather than the merits of exploiting a second account to circumvent the need for a base...

[VVarhead 185]

I dont like base building. We should be able to fortify the existing structures within chernarus, would be a hell of a lot more atmospheric.

Some user here made a big post about it sometime, it was a great read.

 

I dont want this to become rust 2.0 or H1z1 (not that I played any of those shit games lol) where every meter there is a fucking player base

[sneakydude 480]

rust isnt so bad, just a different game with base building. Things line up rather well when making a base. Over all you have to give the devs some appreciation for the creation. They did do very well on allowing for short walls etc..

Ark actually has come a very long way. Modding has allowed the base building to snap into place with different object types. Both i have played.

Epoch has horrible snapping configurations however they did try their very best to make it work. Exile moved past epoch in many ranges. Base building i never got to test out but heard it was ok.

Its relative to everything. If you have bases that work well, and dont cause instant deaths when going up the stairs i am ok with this. I would like the base building to be perfect before handing it to us.

I want Angled roof's, Half walls, half walls with murder holes, i want windows, i want tin roof siding rusty and different colors. I would like to see old wheels, drums we can put wood in for fires, i want to see barbwire, i want to see chains.

Chain link fences, walls concrete, walls wood.

I dont want to have steel made buildings like in ark, and rust. I would rather it be wood with steel siding. This way it may keep the infected out and some of the player base, but it still can be damaged by players trying to get in.

 

What i dont want is offline base raiding. Or the values changed so its so hard to destroy while offline.

I can understand c4 found may blow a hole in the side, to get into. What i dont want to see is the ability for 3rd party apps, or injections to be able to create that c4 on the fly and use it while i am offline. You fix those issues and we got a good game for basebuilding.

 

Otherwise lose the whole concept, because its a time sync that can be destroyed in minutes. I am rather sick by all these games that claim for basebuilding but give us 500 hrs to find the items to craft something. Then its destroyed in under 1 hr completely.

 

[[DGN] Johnny 115]

On 3/1/2016 at 6:40 PM, sneakydude said:

rust isnt so bad, just a different game with base building. Things line up rather well when making a base. Over all you have to give the devs some appreciation for the creation. They did do very well on allowing for short walls etc..

Ark actually has come a very long way. Modding has allowed the base building to snap into place with different object types. Both i have played.

Epoch has horrible snapping configurations however they did try their very best to make it work. Exile moved past epoch in many ranges. Base building i never got to test out but heard it was ok.

Its relative to everything. If you have bases that work well, and dont cause instant deaths when going up the stairs i am ok with this. I would like the base building to be perfect before handing it to us.

I want Angled roof's, Half walls, half walls with murder holes, i want windows, i want tin roof siding rusty and different colors. I would like to see old wheels, drums we can put wood in for fires, i want to see barbwire, i want to see chains.

Chain link fences, walls concrete, walls wood.

I dont want to have steel made buildings like in ark, and rust. I would rather it be wood with steel siding. This way it may keep the infected out and some of the player base, but it still can be damaged by players trying to get in.

 

What i dont want is offline base raiding. Or the values changed so its so hard to destroy while offline.

I can understand c4 found may blow a hole in the side, to get into. What i dont want to see is the ability for 3rd party apps, or injections to be able to create that c4 on the fly and use it while i am offline. You fix those issues and we got a good game for basebuilding.

 

Otherwise lose the whole concept, because its a time sync that can be destroyed in minutes. I am rather sick by all these games that claim for basebuilding but give us 500 hrs to find the items to craft something. Then its destroyed in under 1 hr completely.

 

Pretty solid post, and I have to agree.

If it's going to be anything more than an aesthetic for roleplayers, it has to give a real in-game effect that is valuable. I can understand the desire that bases are not untouchable, especially when players are not online, but there's another side of that fence. What incentive is there for players to invest that time sink, to create that larger footprint to have their stuff found. So far, I've seen and heard no reason why you wouldn't just bury all your crap like you could do with barrels in water, and call it a day. 

I could see some form of shelter being important, if rain becomes a serious heat consideration, but aside from a roof and maybe varied levels of fire vs flame exposure, I just don't see the value in it.... yet. Maybe it's a development thing, maybe there's some more aces up their sleeves. Time will tell I suppose. ^.^ (I do think dynamic hordes could change the wall/gate consideration. Question is, will we be saturated enough to make that a real concern)

Edited March 2, 2016 by [DGN] Johnny

[Whyherro123 2283]

On 3/1/2016 at 9:11 PM, VVarhead said:

I dont like base building. We should be able to fortify the existing structures within chernarus, would be a hell of a lot more atmospheric.

Some user here made a big post about it sometime, it was a great read.

 

I dont want this to become rust 2.0 or H1z1 (not that I played any of those shit games lol) where every meter there is a fucking player base

I, for one, wouldn't want to build a base in or around the ruins of existing structures, for several reasons.

1) the "zombies". They are attracted to light, sound, etc. Where are they more likely to hear you: in the middle of an old town, at the convergence of roads, or off in the middle of the woods, miles from the nearest town?

2) The players. You can see it all the time. If there is a road leading somewhere, eventually someone will go down the road, just for shits and giggles. Hell, that happened to my clan a couple months back.

There is a single dirt road leading NW out of Sinistok, right on the edge of the map. One of clan newbies asked "where does that road go?". Since we didn't have anything better to do, we followed it. At the end of the road, we found a single house, and a fuckmassive base. Multiple tents, liek 20 barrels, a two trucks. After stealing everything our grubby little hands could hold, we wrecked the rest. All it took was one person saying " I wonder where that goes?", and that clan lost ALLLLL THEIR SHIT.

3)How dirty/comfortable are those buildings?

Many of the in-game buildings have shattered windows. It is late Autumn: it is going to get cold at night! Or, how many of the buildings have massive bloodstains in them, from people getting killed? A large percentage?

etc.

Give me a lean-to in the woods any day.