Make the infected afraid of fire

[Whyherro123 2283]

That's a terrible argument. Not trying to be antagonistic, but this is fiction. Magic, or in this context science fiction, is permissible.

Then explain how the rod and cone receptors in the eyes of the infected get changed.

 

Remember, it is canon that the "zombies" in Day Z are literally nothing more than normal people. "Authenticity", remember?

[ColdAtrophy 1850]

Then explain how the rod and cone receptors in the eyes of the infected get changed.

 

Remember, it is canon that the "zombies" in Day Z are literally nothing more than normal people. "Authenticity", remember?

 

It's not my job to explain it. I'm not on the dev team and this is just us spitballing on ideas we like. Matter of fact, they don't have to explain it either unless they feel so inclined. We don't have to KNOW anything about the infected. All I'm saying is the argument that it's impossible because it requires magic is silly. This is all fiction.

[igor-vk 909]

Are infected in SA attracted by flares, flashbangs or smoke grenades? I always used smokes in mod.

[Whyherro123 2283]

Are infected in SA attracted by flares, flashbangs or smoke grenades? I always used smokes in mod.

 

They are attracted to smoke. I threw a smoke grenade in the tents at the NWAF, and it got mobbed.

[Killawife 599]

I think its a good idea too, mainly because a torch is easily craftable and more options to keep the infected at bay is always nice. Things need to be flammable though, houses, bushes, corpses etc.

[ZomboWTF 527]

resources for fire are way to readily avaible in the game as it is, all you need is a rag and a stick, a matchbox is easy to find, viola! zombie-free

 

zombies aren't posing a real threat as it is at the moment, making people carrying torches zombie-immune would be worse,

and i would ask myself how the hell 99% of humanity would get killed by something afraid of a torch or campfire...

 

also, DayZ does NOT have the "magical BS" zombie approach, it was said veery often that the DayZ zombies are just people with a brain disease

if we argue that "there could be a little magic behind the zombies", why not go full throttle and give them red glowy eyes and make all zombies wear SS costumes? because thats kewl isn't it?

 

i don't like adding stuff that destroys immersion even more just because it's cool

[q.S Sachiel 470]

Most traditional zombies are infected, btw.  There's a slew of archetypes along a bandwidth though, from the semi-invulnurable crawling, reanimated dead type; to the tweaker, rabid, full-focus stimulous but irrational or primal brain function 'infected' of 28 days later.

 

'Magic zombies', ghouls (vampiric slaves); witch-doctor slaves or other chemically induced zombies have never been counted within the fold.

Obviously, you guys don't read the good book.

 

Yall f'''ed when the snowstorm comes...

[Xbow 362]

Since the undead (infected) seem to rely on their most basic of (animal) instincts it would be cool if they would be afraid of fire. Carrying a torch would make them keep their distance and a camp fire would create a circle of safety. Especially at night they could be attracted by it but too afraid to attack. Could cause some interesting moments having a horde following you through a town and your torch goes out...

I agree 100%. As far as I am concerned it matters not if they are un-dead or infected since their actions are the same either way. They are pretty much brain dead and have only their animal drives to sustain them.  As far as I am concerned it would be good to nail one with a hand crafted flame weapon and watch the fire dance while the other Infected/Zeds haull ass out of the area.

Have some Beans SAK  :beans:

 

And I do believe that the Zombies or ghouls in Night of the Living Dead were activated by radiation and as dumb as they were they reacted to fire by recoiling from it. 

Edited January 19, 2016 by Xbow

[ZomboWTF 527]

They are pretty much brain dead and have only their animal drives to sustain them.

 

so their animal instincts, coming from the Ape, would make them run away from very tall, clothed apes with loud guns

basically

 

i mean, i never shot in the general direction of an Ape, but i sure as hell wouldn't count on it looking at me, charging at me dead on and trying to eat me,

especially not a fruitarian ape (which afaik humans evolved from)

Edited January 19, 2016 by Zombo

[q.S Sachiel 470]

especially not a fruitarian ape (which afaik humans evolved from)

Well it's science so it's all quite 'as far as we know' too... but I thought the common (new) 'theory' was that we co-evolved alongside, from a common ancestor to current apes, not that we're ape ver2.0.

 

Also, can confirm with first-hand experience that DayZ zombies are definitely not 'nothing more than normal people'.  Also, remember before we start swinging the A&R words around, that Authentic can also mean 'likely to adopt due to or because of finding something plausable or believable'.  This incorporates everything from sci-fi, to realistic fiction to autobiography.  That said, yeah, i don't want Nether zombies teleporting in through glowing pentagrams on the ground.

 

I'm still off on my own concept, but the pathogen is fictional, while there's plenty of pathogens out there that alter the behavior of the host.  Again cordiceps as an example, but there's a swath of worms / nematodes / whatever out there that change the behavior of their (sometimes mammalian hosts).

There are deep-sea colonial organisms that are single-cellular individually, but colonially they form organs and appendages for digestion/motility/feeding.

Infectious agent altering or creating organs/organelles?  The Thing?

 

As far as i care, this thing wants to spread, and it's altering the behavior of the host, if not also altering its body.  They already seem to have overcome pain.  Surely fear and other logic/rational thought processes are the first things to go when you hijack a body?

 

All that wishing aside, i'm with the camp that feels zombies('infected') are too underpowered, and that this would seem like an easy out on the meta.  I'd rather them be the traditional 'near-immortal' where the only solution is destruction of the brain, even though with melee and currently small numbers, this is the go-to location to attack anyway.  With more features and maybe more Ai changes, they may become something more, but atm they're quite the distraction from teh real game (if you just want to clobber something) or otherwise are a distraction or inconvenience if you're fighting or shooting something within city boundaries.

Edited January 19, 2016 by q.S Sachiel

[ZomboWTF 527]

Well it's science so it's all quite 'as far as we know' too... but I thought the common (new) 'theory' was that we co-evolved alongside, from a common ancestor to current apes, not that we're ape ver2.0.

 

Also, can confirm with first-hand experience that DayZ zombies are definitely not 'nothing more than normal people'.  Also, remember before we start swinging the A&R words around, that Authentic can also mean 'likely to adopt due to or because of finding something plausable or believable'.  This incorporates everything from sci-fi, to realistic fiction to autobiography.  That said, yeah, i don't want Nether zombies teleporting in through glowing pentagrams on the ground.

 

I'm still off on my own concept, but the pathogen is fictional, while there's plenty of pathogens out there that alter the behavior of the host.  Again cordiceps as an example, but there's a swath of worms / nematodes / whatever out there that change the behavior of their (sometimes mammalian hosts).

There are deep-sea colonial organisms that are single-cellular individually, but colonially they form organs and appendages for digestion/motility/feeding.

Infectious agent altering or creating organs/organelles?  The Thing?

 

As far as i care, this thing wants to spread, and it's altering the behavior of the host, if not also altering its body.  They already seem to have overcome pain.  Surely fear and other logic/rational thought processes are the first things to go when you hijack a body?

 

All that wishing aside, i'm with the camp that feels zombies('infected') are too underpowered, and that this would seem like an easy out on the meta.  I'd rather them be the traditional 'near-immortal' where the only solution is destruction of the brain, even though with melee and currently small numbers, this is the go-to location to attack anyway.  With more features and maybe more Ai changes, they may become something more, but atm they're quite the distraction from teh real game (if you just want to clobber something) or otherwise are a distraction or inconvenience if you're fighting or shooting something within city boundaries.

 

yes, definitely with you on that one, the game needs to be way harder, especially in the zombie-department

[Xbow 362]

so their animal instincts, coming from the Ape, would make them run away from very tall, clothed apes with loud guns

basically

 

i mean, i never shot in the general direction of an Ape, but i sure as hell wouldn't count on it looking at me, charging at me dead on and trying to eat me,

especially not a fruitarian ape (which afaik humans evolved from)

 

 

Your first sentence is absurd and something that was completely contrived by you.

 

Apes will attack humans on sight  reference a pack of starving  baboons. 

 

I have killed a lot of animals and I can assure you that animals recoil from sudden light, gunshots and noise that the are not familiar with such as metallic  scratching and clicks. Even the sound of my early Ruger 300win mag  M77 rs with its loud tang safety (click) will spook an animal. However I would not expect that infected/zombies would be be run off by such trivial sounds. 

 

But we were talking about fire remember? No one is saying that fire is a universal repellent but a healthy camp fire does seem to keep animals away most of the time. Be that as it may it is also true that hunger can trump the fear of fire quite often. A dozen years ago a large black bear entered our camp aggressively even though we had a large camp fire going. Obviously  the smell of bacon and beans being cooked over the fire was a stronger sensation than its fear of fire. My brother put a 12ga slug in its neck before it made too much trouble.

 

so the answer to the question will zombies recoil from fire is obvious, fire should deter zombies/infected at least some of the time.

 

And by the way the scientific consensus that humans evolved from apes that were omnivores not pure vegetarians. It is the very act of eating protein rich flesh on a regular basis that stimulated the development of larger and more complex brains in pre human apes.      

Edited January 19, 2016 by Xbow

[ZomboWTF 527]

Your first sentence is absurd and something that was completely contrived by you.

 

Apes will attack humans on sight  reference a pack of starving  baboons. 

 

I have killed a lot of animals and I can assure you that animals recoil from sudden light, gunshots and noise that the are not familiar with such as metallic  scratching and clicks. Even the sound of my early Ruger 300win mag  M77 rs with its loud tang safety (click) will spook an animal. However I would not expect that infected/zombies would be be run off by such trivial sounds. 

 

But we were talking about fire remember? No one is saying that fire is a universal repellent but a healthy camp fire does seem to keep animals away most of the time. Be that as it may it is also true that hunger can trump the fear of fire quite often. A dozen years ago a large black bear entered our camp aggressively even though we had a large camp fire going. Obviously  the smell of bacon and beans being cooked over the fire was a stronger sensation than its fear of fire. My brother put a 12ga slug in its neck before it made too much trouble.

 

so the answer to the question will zombies recoil from fire is obvious, fire should deter zombies/infected at least some of the time.

 

And by the way the scientific consensus that humans evolved from apes that were omnivores not pure vegetarians. It is the very act of eating protein rich flesh on a regular basis that stimulated the development of larger and more complex brains in pre human apes.      

wait, so you say zombies should not run away from people because starving animals are not, but then you say zombies should be deterred by fire because they are NOT starving animals?

 

can you please decide on wether zombies are like starving animals or not? why should a thing that is NOT running away from loud, sudden light and noise run away from a fire?

 

i get that not all animals automatically run away from humans, especially not apes, since some can eb extremely aggressive, but the first reaction of an animal to something unknown and disturbing should be in canon with what it does in other situations (for example spotting a fire)

 

come to think of it: are zombies fearing ANYTHING whatsoever in the game, did they ever? the only thing zombies are defined by is not having fear of pain or not feeling pain,

why should zombies attack humans in the first place if they are something to fear for them? why should they fear fire if they don't fear humans or pain in the first place? they certainly don't fear light or sounds, either

Edited January 20, 2016 by Zombo

[Xbow 362]

 

come to think of it: are zombies fearing ANYTHING whatsoever in the game, did they ever? the only thing zombies are defined by is not having fear of pain or not feeling pain,

why should zombies attack humans in the first place if they are something to fear for them? why should they fear fire if they don't fear humans or pain in the first place? they certainly don't fear light or sounds, either

Really? you missed what they have demonstrated a fear of? Infected don't like deep water why? They don't walk off cliffs and they have a drive to eat why? Could it be that they have a desire to live or put another way fear death? In any case this discussion was about adding an attribute to their nature not rehashing what you perceive as the canon of their existence. It would be good for you to remember that the game is in ALPHA hence their natures are not  complete. 

[sneakydudes 278]

Really? you missed what they have demonstrated a fear of? Infected don't like deep water why? They don't walk off cliffs and they have a drive to eat why? Could it be that they have a desire to live or put another way fear death? In any case this discussion was about adding an attribute to their nature not rehashing what you perceive as the canon of their existence. It would be good for you to remember that the game is in ALPHA hence their natures are not  complete. 

Actually how do we know this? Because if i am not mistaken movies are now starting to shift towards changes with zombies being under the water. Should we also say that infected would be exactly like humans with the drive to eat. How crazy are they? should they keep following you off a cliff, or follow you to the depths of the water. If they drowned they had no clue being so mind crazed as it is, the drive for food is so intoxicating they keep going.

 

Fire should be the same, they have no reason to stop and turn around.

 

If you remember, the walking dead still used imprints into the minds of the infected. They still went back to their last location of death, or where they knew best. It did not stop them from running through a saw blade wall, or trying to squish past a couple tightly together transport trailers.

 

Did fire actually turn them away ever in a movie we knew of? infected or zombies? I have always known it to be the drive for food.

[sneakydudes 278]

come to speak of it, aren't we doing the same as the infected? gathering all this food hahah

 

Too many beans for you!

 

:emptycan:+ :emptycan: = :beans: ? or does  :emptycan: + :emptycan: = :emptycan: 

 

answers to follow =D

[darkrider400 76]

Not you. The guy who wants zeds more dangerous at night time. Because it would blatant ripping it off of DL. 

Zombies being stronger at night isn't something you can "rip off". Thats like saying Call of Duty ripped off Halo because it had guns.

[Xbow 362]

"Actually how do we know this? Because if i am not mistaken movies are now starting to shift towards changes with zombies being under the water."

 I am aware of underwater zombies only in Land of The Dead and one in Fulchi's Zombie II

 

"Should we also say that infected would be exactly like humans with the drive to eat. How crazy are they? should they keep following you off a cliff, or follow you to the depths of the water. If they drowned they had no clue being so mind crazed as it is, the drive for food is so intoxicating they keep going."

Let us not drift towards the absurd as was done in World War Z and Land Of The Dead 

 

"Fire should be the same, they have no reason to stop and turn around."

The infected are as alive as humans unlike the zombies you have referenced to support your position. Their hearts beat, they have blood pressure and actually require food, water and oxygen  hence they obviously tend to avoid the death of the vehicle (body) to some degree at least 

 

"If you remember, the walking dead still used imprints into the minds of the infected. They still went back to their last location of death, or where they knew best. It did not stop them from running through a saw blade wall, or trying to squish past a couple tightly together transport trailers."

Those zombies squeezing between the trailers were starving as they hadn't fed in a very long while. And it seems to me that most of the walking dead zombies wander quite far from their point of death.  

 

"Did fire actually turn them away ever in a movie we knew of? infected or zombies? I have always known it to be the drive for food."

 

 

YES Fires has turned them away, reference Night Of The Living Dead (1968) where fire and even the pain of  a solid belt in the face halts them momentarily.  

 

You have made some good points but the complete nature of the day Z infected in the final version is as of yet un determined. Understand that I do not wish to have some clown with a torch be immune to their attacks and neither do I want head shot only zombies since as living things they have a need for oxygen, water, and food which is why body hits can end them. I would like to see solid hits in the legs and arms traumatically amputate those limbs. But because they do not feel pain to the same degree as other living things they should be more durable than humans. .

 

my questions

 

1) Should the infected that have recently fed be as voracious as those that have not?

2) Should starving infected be as fast or energetic as those that have fed?

3) Should mutilated infected have a superior mechanism to stop blood loss?

 

Remember I also want them to be relentless just as you do and I also want to see them in greater numbers. I have little desire to kill other players unless they are of the KoS junkie type and that is why I want more infected and dangerous animals around to kill.  

 

have some beans for a good post   :beans:

Edited January 20, 2016 by Xbow

[Irish. 4886]

I like the idea of having something that attracts or scares away zeds.

 

I want airhorns or megaphones... Something that Zeds and other players can hear for say 1km.. and it attracts the zeds.

 

[Xbow 362]

I like the idea of having something that attracts or scares away zeds.

 

I want airhorns or megaphones... Something that Zeds and other players can hear for say 1km.. and it attracts the zeds.

 

I don't know about scaring them away but the notion of attracting them with noise making devises is excellent. 

 

If we could lure the infected into channelized kill zones we could use a machine like this on them to great effect 

 

have some beans for your excellent notion   :beans:

Edited January 20, 2016 by Xbow

[Whyherro123 2283]

I don't know about scaring them away but the notion of attracting them with noise making devises is excellent. 

 

If we could lure the infected into channelized kill zones we could use a machine like this on them to great effect 

 

have some beans for your excellent notion   :beans:

 

 

See, the above is what I don't want.

 

The "infected/zombies" in Day Z are "animalistic". They lack the higher levels of thinking (namely, sapience, ability to talk, etc) that we associate with humans. That doesn't mean (or should mean, really) they are stupid.

 

Instead of luring "zombies" in with noises and cutting them up with ridiculous machines, I would love  if the "zombies" AI and "level of intelligence" was similar to that of a wolf or a dog. A wolf/dog wouldn't be fooled by the above, and would have enough self-preservation to avoid the "LOUDFASTSPINNYTHING". 

 

Pack hunters, they move to surround you, or take turns chasing after you. Wear you out over distances. Wound you and wait for you to collapse. Take shelters from inclement weather/temperature (Rainy/windy/cold outside? Much more likely to find zeds huddled in buildings. Sunny and warm? They are out and about), move from food/water source to the next, etc. The current "see/hear player = DERPCHARG" tactic is foolish, and IMHO, less "effective" at maintaining immersion and suchlike.

[Xbow 362]

A wolf/dog wouldn't be fooled by the above, and would have enough self-preservation to avoid the 

 

 

That's funny bro I have lured many, many Coyotes, wild Dogs and Bob Cats in with simple calls. One of the best is the simple wounded rabbit call. Calling predators is a sport quite apart from calling them in to blast them down. Unfortunately wild dogs always get shot when called in because they do not have a fear of humans and can do a lot of damage to sheep and cattle (calfs) and they actually do it for sport and fun. A few wild dogs in a pack can mutilate a lot of stock in a single night. A single wild dog that gets into a chicken coup will often kill every chicken in the enclosure and not feed on any of its kills.  

 

By the way, I do not suggest that we should be able to call in zombies as easily as predators can be called in but the Zeds are attracted to sound as it is...they do come towards the sound of gunfire do they not? Go to the NWAF and fire a few rounds and see how fast the zeds will start heading towards you. Also I dont see giving them a social structure and the intelligence that would make them pack hunters as anything but a foolish idea that is quite outside the accepted capabilities of infected / zombies.  Are you a fan of George Romero's fucked up movie Land Of The Dead where the gun toting Zombie Leader Big Daddy organizes a Zombie assault on Fiddlers Green. And why deny the ifected the skills to use weapons, tools, and cars? (Those are all dumb ideas in my book)

what a stupid film thesis!!

 

Note: The mine flail is hardly ridiculous but I don't want to see it in the game either. 

Edited January 21, 2016 by Xbow

[Whyherro123 2283]

^ I know that predators in real life can be called via mimicking either the sound of injured prey or a possible mate. However, that doesn't necessarily make them stupid. Chances are, they will move in cautiously, in order to avoid scaring away potential prey/mates, not just HERP DERP DERP run in. Stay in cover, look around, slowly move towards the sound vs run in and get shot.

 

I know that the in-game "zombies" are attracted to sounds. I, however, don't like the mechanic, not as it is currently implemented. Right now, "zombies attracted to gunshots" is little more than a "see if other geared players are here/where they are" simulator, because the "zombies" home in on the noise like stumblefucks. I don't think either myself or any of my clanmates have been seriously inconvenienced, let alone actually endangered, via "zombies" being attracted to our gunshots, and we have had pretty large groups ( I think the largest was a group of 10-12 at the NWAF). Yet, we use them all the time to figure out where other players are.  If that is all the mechanic is really good for, then it is a poor mechanic.

 

Of course, this is coming from the guy that wants the "zombies" to be essentially "NPC-PCs", for a lack of a better term, and for everything that can be applied to the PCs be applicable to the "zombies" as well. Get stabbed/shot? I expect them to bleed, and probably bleed out because they don't know how to bandage themselves. Get a leg broken? I expect them to crawl around like the PCs do, not the current asinine "DERP-crawl" thing that is utterly hilarious to watch. Get handcuffed/tied? Be unable to use their arms. Suffer from starvation/dehydration/exposure? Die. Get hurt? Moan and cry like the PCs used to do (anyone remember the little gasps and mutterings the player avatar would make early in the Alpha? Those were awesome, especially when compared to the current "GUH" noise the avatars make for EVERYTHING).

 

Remember, above all things: the "zombies" in Day Z are canonically little more than very sick people, and asides from the slightly-better-than-human stuff they can do, like tank multiple blows or bullets ( I compare the effect to someone on PcP), they are literally just people, albeit people reduced to an animalistic, violent state due to brain damage . For me, by far the most off-putting (and I mean "immersion-breaking", not "disturbing") aspect of the zombies" is the noises they make. Unless the disease changed something drastically in their vocal cords, they should still make human sounds. Human gasps, human screams, human chokes. I hate the weird, nonsensical, and quite frankly stupid noises they make right now. They aren't scary. They are, from a certain point of view, actually rather funny. I would much rather hear a human screaming his head off as he charges me, balls out, than the current "gargling a mouth full of marbles" thing.

 

They also don't have to be intelligent, just not stupid. Like the predator example above, when attracted to a noise/light/whatever, I would much prefer if the "zombies" actually, you know, tried to sneak up on the whatever, as opposed to just HERP DERP running at it like a fat kid to an ice cream truck. How, exactly, have the "zombies" (which, again, are literally just sick humans) survived this long with zero sense of self-preservation? Sneaking up on noises/potential prey, seeking shelter from exposure/inclement weather or, hell, straight-up fleeing from a fight-gone-south would be 1000000000X more interesting than literally everything the "zombies" are doing right now.

 

Remember when Day Z was supposed to be something "different"? Now players are talking about the "accepted capabilities of zombies/infected". -sigh-

[Xbow 362]

^ I know that predators in real life can be called via mimicking either the sound of injured prey or a possible mate. However, that doesn't necessarily make them stupid. Chances are, they will move in cautiously, in order to avoid scaring away potential prey/mates, not just HERP DERP DERP run in.up of 10-12 at the NWAF).........Remember when Day Z was supposed to be something "different"? Now players are talking about the "accepted capabilities of zombies/infected". -sigh-

 You are actually making a degree of sense here. I am also a bit bored with the zombies myself. very often I travel alone and have no problem in leaving a trail of dumb fuck zeds littering the ground all over the NWAF or any place I travel. So unless the Devs can give us a truly threatening horde of dumb aggressive relentless zombies they will have to make the lower numbers they can provide have more individual capabilities to make them a more serious threat.  How about making it so that it takes five body hits or two head shots to down one. How about they can vomit blobs of a lethal pathogen with a high degree of accuracy from fifty feet away.   

 

But it is good to remember the canon, Individually zombies are easily killed and not particularly dangerous but when encountered in large numbers its a different story.  All I am saying is that if you have a solution show it.  

 

Can you believe that some players actually want educated zombies with tactical training and the ability to form complex battle plans :lol:  Should these zombies use the standard five paragraph order format (SMEAC)  to plan their operations :lol:  Of course any capabilities along those lines makes them something other than the dumb aggressive freak monsters they were intended to be :(  

 

IS THIS WHAT YOU WANT bro? 

Enjoy the film I think it may be right up your alley

 

SMEAC = Situation---Mission----Execution----Admin and Logistics----Command and signal.

Edited January 21, 2016 by Xbow

[Weyland Yutani (DayZ) 1159]

Infected fear nothing.