Supressing voice-chat outside of Dayz (Skype, Mumble, TS3, etc.)

[sushimaster 6]

Bah, stop saying it can't be done & come up with constructive solutions to the core issue.

Could probably just piggyback something on the stealth mechanic to balance the handicap.

Or just have whitelist only purist servers.
^racist
xD

Edited August 23, 2015 by sushimaster

[xalienax 621]

They can't fix this issue in a way that would be widely satisfactory.

 

Folks bear in mind, that we are talking about a game that's being digitally distributed globally. Privacy laws and what constitutes 'malware' vary widely from one country to another. All it takes is some shock value SJW blogger to point out that "DayZ's anti cheat uses x method to determine what process are running on your PC. this means it could in theory have access to all this other stuff". Suddenly legal action the game could even be banned in certain countries over it.

 

Add to that the amount of coding and development resources it would take to make a minimally invasive system to purely suppress VOIP programs without sending other background process  or anti virus/firewall into a fit..

 

All this just to appease a fairly small cross-section of the player base? that seems like a waste of resources if ever there was one- without even getting into the potential legal issues and public backlash

 

 

As to the 'mics always open' system im sorry that's terrible. it's worse then 3rd party comms. some examples-

 

1. your walking along in the woods stalking someone.. just as your spoiled brat teenager come thru the room arguing with a friend on the phone.. cover blown.

2. you headset happens to be a bit sensitive and tends tyo pick up background sounds... tv in next room, AC running, fans, etc. I would shoot you myself as broadcasting that continuously into direct makes you a liability me me or our entire group. 

3. Ever been in a clan and had that one ignorant asshat that wont use Push-to-Talk? want to have them open micing in game 2 feet away from you all time time and not only constantly broadcasting your position but also possibly maskign in-game sounds that i would rather hear then this morons fans running at max speed?

[q.S Sachiel 470]

NOD cyborgs everywhere! No flinch when they take a bullet to the chest, and now high tech communication systems built inside their heads!

 

At least their built in zoom system (fov exploit) was nerfed!

hi FOV and flinch are game mechanics wip... not 3p chat...

[Accolyte 1727]

Bah, stop saying it can't be done & come up with constructive solutions to the core issue.

 

It can't be done. If you don't agree with that it is you who should offer solutions, not us.

 

 

As to the 'mics always open' system im sorry that's terrible. 

 

And as already mentioned this is easily countered by flipping the mute switch on your microphone or changing your default sound input device.

Edited August 23, 2015 by Accolyte

[The_Real_MyDingaling 105]

What's the matter? Don't  you have friends?

 

Communication between players is inevitable, likely in a zombie apocalypse and actually fun! In game chat i soften not laud enough to be useful and at the moment not realistic.

[xalienax 621]

And as already mentioned this is easily countered by flipping the mute switch on your microphone or changing your default sound input device.

That kinda goes back to the original issue tho of being able to control what you can prevent the player doing other then playing your game on thier PC at the same time. i could just as easily set up different 'devices' for Teamspeak and the game.. many gaming headsets that have a mix-amp register as 2 or more audio devices allowing you to adjust with your inline the TS and game volume separately.

 

And that goes back to my original point; the only way to actually 'enforce' no 3rd party VOIP is to directy detect process and either force close them or prevent them starting- and that gets into all the stuff you already pointed out like antivrius treating it as a virus/malware and then theres the actual legality of effecting other process on someones PC. I'm no lawyer but i can't even imagine the nightmare it would be to work around the sheer number of varying criteria and legal definitions regarding privacy & malware from one country to another.

[S3V3N 1402]

What's the matter? Don't  you have friends?

 

Communication between players is inevitable, likely in a zombie apocalypse and actually fun! In game chat i soften not laud enough to be useful and at the moment not realistic.

That is exactly my point - I want friends to use in-game voice, as if they were actually in the place together. With Skype or other VOIPs it is like you are in Dayz and at the same time in a chat room. Not only does it take away from the immersion into the game and makes most people constantly chatter (missing the finer sound cues, like a truck driving in the distance, or faint echoes of shots fired), but it also is just giving them an advantage over players who meet ingame and use ingame chat. I don't give my Skype details to every nutter I meet in Dayz, and I don't wanna join yet another password protected Teamspeak server.

 

Even the walkie-talkies in-game don't mute you to players in the vicinity. Because it would be unfair, if nobody can hear you speak outside of Dayz. So why is it fair to use Skype? I have nothing against 2-3 people sitting in the same room and playing together. That's actually awesome. I let them have their advantage. But I can't stand the thought of groups larger than 5 that are completely silenced, even though they are constantly talking. One advantage of the solo player over large groups is that he only needs to coordinate himself. So he can actually stand a chance, if he knows what they are doing.

 

"Cut him off left" he screams, and I careen off the hill to my right to forfeit that plan. You can act only, if you have information.

 

Okay, so let's presume it is impossible to block players access from VOIP, even if only on selective servers. How about showing visually that they are running third party VOIP software? The game should be able to detect, if someone is running Skype or TS3 in the background, right? That's a small addition to Battleeye. So then, players who use it could be shown wearing a headset with big bulky ear cups that are easy to spot. The kind that pilots wear. That would at least tell us who we are dealing with and it would make it easier to tell if a guy is actually alone or has his friend waiting for him (or for you) around the corner.

 

I don't want to spoil anyones fun, but Skype users are spoiling my fun, so it's not unreasonable to at least discuss a solution. If supression is not wanted or needed, then at least make recognition an option, please! Alternatively, why shouldn't it be possible that your mic is muted, until you press caps-lock in Dayz? That way you would be heard in global chat as well as on your TS. Only problem I see here is it completely defies the use of TS or Skype and people would only use global then anyway.

Edited August 23, 2015 by S3V3N

[Coheed_IV 381]

I don't think this will ever materialize on PC, would love a solution though. This is why I'll go buy a ps4 to play DayZ. That crowd will have a much more focused experience. Official servers, official experience, loads of new players. Obviously, couldn't live without the PC version, but it's got a much better chance for things like night and communication to be fair.

[Grimey Rick 3417]

S3V3N, how exactly are Skype users ruining your fun? Because you don't like that they can communicate without you being able to hear them? Seriously?

If you feel it's unfair to engage groups by yourself due to third party communication software, then... don't engage groups. After 1600 hours of playing the Standalone, I can't think of one time where third party communication software upset me. Even organized clans using TeamSpeak run around like chickens with their heads cut off when they're under fire. It's painfully easy to kill multiple players from a hidden vantage point.

The one in a hundred people who want some type of "fix" for this is enough of a reason to potentially ruin the game for the other ninety-nine? I think not.

[St. Jimmy 1631]

Only problem in DayZ in my opinion is that you can't easily make people aware that you're close to them other than constantly singing in the microphone. I'd like to make sure that people near are aware that I'm close to them most of the time so they don't jump scare and shoot in panic when I'm suddenly saying "Hey!" right behind or in front of them. Though there needs to be a way to be sneaky when you want but I'd like to be also noisy sometimes. I sometimes stream my mic and cough or sing something stupid in towns just because of that but naturally I can't constantly do that or someone will think in my house that I'm not alright :D

Edited August 23, 2015 by St. Jimmy

[Chaingunfighter 917]

Okay, so let's presume it is impossible to block players access from VOIP, even if only on selective servers. How about showing visually that they are running third party VOIP software? The game should be able to detect, if someone is running Skype or TS3 in the background, right? That's a small addition to Battleeye. So then, players who use it could be shown wearing a headset with big bulky ear cups that are easy to spot. The kind that pilots wear. That would at least tell us who we are dealing with and it would make it easier to tell if a guy is actually alone or has his friend waiting for him (or for you) around the corner.

 

How reliable would that actually be, though? If they had a helmet or really any kind of headgear that obscures that region at all, it'd render your detection method useless because you couldn't see it. Also, having the program running in the background doesn't inherently mean that it's in use, so you might have some guy on his own that looks like a TS guy and you avoid him, when in reality the process was just not dead on his computer.

 

And, of course, it'd still mean the devs would have to find every possible outlet of outside communication on your computer and account for that, and with all of the ways that exist it's pretty much impossible to be sure.

 

 

The reality is that it's not 100% impossible to do something about it; of course there are ways to deal with it. It's just that it gets to a point where the amount of work you're trying to justify to fix the "problem" (that many agree is not a problem) outweighs the benefits, and the amount it actually does to stop the problem can't really be quantified because of all the ways to bypass it.

Edited August 23, 2015 by Chaingunfighter

[Parazight 1594]

Saying 3rd party comms is unfair is like saying "Everyone has to speak english in Dayz otherwise it's not fair to the rest of us."

 

It's a video game people.

[Chaingunfighter 917]

Saying 3rd party comms is unfair is like saying "Everyone has to speak english in Dayz otherwise it's not fair to the rest of us."

 

It's a video game people.

 

Well, technically if we're going for realism then everyone would need to learn to speak Russian (or Czech) and only speak that :P

[pillock 850]

I generally think the game experience would be better if most/all people used the in-game comms instead of 3rd party software. It would add to the atmosphere and authenticity of the environment and scenario.

 

It would also be better if noone used 3rd party/out-of-game maps, or websites that tell you how to craft certain items or where best to find others. The best case scenario is that everybody in the gameworld has the same information and tools at their disposal, and they use in-game methods to gain advantages over other players or make progress in the game.

 

The devs can't explicitly stop people using other software on their PC. But I think they should still be aiming to encourage people to use in-game systems as much as possible, because that would make the game better. The radios need to be more useful and more widely available, and there've been encouraging signs of this in the Status Reports/Devtracker recently. If in-game communication using in-game methods becomes commonplace then stuff like TS3 might actually begin to get in the way, and people might be less inclined to want to use it.

 

I think that's all the devs can do. 

 

[What about that suggestion earlier about having Battleye refuse to launch DayZ if it detects certain other software running? Is that not feasible/ethical/legal?]

Edited August 23, 2015 by Pillock

[Girth Brooks 558]

Here is your problem.

 

 

 But I'd prefer to have some servers that are actually populated by people who want to play the game, as I think it was intended. 

[Rauchsauger 94]

So what then voip will Run on another Device all you Do is hinder the Not so tech savy

[Accolyte 1727]

Well, technically if we're going for realism then everyone would need to learn to speak Russian (or Czech) and only speak that :P

 

That would actually be hilarious.  :D

 

Good thing I speak both.  :lol:

[xalienax 621]

I generally think the game experience would be better if most/all people used the in-game comms instead of 3rd party software. It would add to the atmosphere and authenticity of the environment and scenario.

 

It would also be better if noone used 3rd party/out-of-game maps, or websites that tell you how to craft certain items or where best to find others. The best case scenario is that everybody in the gameworld has the same information and tools at their disposal, and they use in-game methods to gain advantages over other players or make progress in the game.

 

The devs can't explicitly stop people using other software on their PC. But I think they should still be aiming to encourage people to use in-game systems as much as possible, because that would make the game better. The radios need to be more useful and more widely available, and there've been encouraging signs of this in the Status Reports/Devtracker recently. If in-game communication using in-game methods becomes commonplace then stuff like TS3 might actually begin to get in the way, and people might be less inclined to want to use it.

 

I think that's all the devs can do. 

 

[What about that suggestion earlier about having Battleye refuse to launch DayZ if it detects certain other software running? Is that not feasible/ethical/legal?]

I don't know about that, but seriously the decision to split up the in-game map into multiple sections! WTF! at least the old A2 map was the FULL map and it didnt take up a normal inventory slot let alone multiple.. yeah way to encourage people to use in-game tools over 3rd party devs :P

[S3V3N 1402]

Saying 3rd party comms is unfair is like saying "Everyone has to speak english in Dayz otherwise it's not fair to the rest of us."

 

It's a video game people.

 

 

S3V3N, how exactly are Skype users ruining your fun? Because you don't like that they can communicate without you being able to hear them? Seriously?

If you feel it's unfair to engage groups by yourself due to third party communication software, then... don't engage groups. After 1600 hours of playing the Standalone, I can't think of one time where third party communication software upset me. Even organized clans using TeamSpeak run around like chickens with their heads cut off when they're under fire. It's painfully easy to kill multiple players from a hidden vantage point.

The one in a hundred people who want some type of "fix" for this is enough of a reason to potentially ruin the game for the other ninety-nine? I think not.

 

I am not engaging groups, they are engaging me. For sports. I like to have at least a chance and for that I need to hear what evil plans they are hatching out. I am aware that shooting at a group and causing chaos is much easier than trying to escape one. I play on constantly full 50 player servers and have 1-4 engagements every session. Very rarely these are friendly encounters an never have I had any luck with 2 men groups, especially if they had worse equipment than me. I just want to level the playing field by saying: hey, if you are talking to each other on Skype and not on Direct, you have an advantage, because I can't trust you. If I had a way to hear what people are actually saying to each other, the problem would go away. Or I would avoid them, if they actually wear the headphone models I proposed. It puzzles me you can't see how TS3 or Skype are not fair. Why do you guys want to constantly chat to each other anyway. Press a goddamn button, if you have something to say, if not stfu.

 

And I am saying (all the time) - this could be an option for some servers, so if you need to have TS, go to a server where the recognition isn't on. Battleye scans your PC for third-party software, before entering a server. Simply include the main programs for VOIP into Battleyes list and then force a model onto players that displays a headset. I think it would be recognizable, even if someone wears a helmet. Stuff is glitching through everything anyway. And if you think you look stupid with it, then play on a server that doesn't have the extra ruleset for Battleye. Simple, all parties happy.   

Edited August 23, 2015 by S3V3N

[sushimaster 6]

It can't be done. If you don't agree with that it is you who should offer solutions, not us.

uh...  I kind of did...  there isn't much that can actually be done within the game itself, but yeah...  I don't think you're understanding the OP.  I believe the assumption is that human beings aren't capable of psychic communication with one another, so, private chat channels outside the game are a bit abusive & I'm pretty sure the OP was looking for ways to prevent this...  but as we already know, it wouldn't be possible...  just saying it isn't possible isn't really on topic though.  There are certainly things that could be done within the game to combat the inherent handicap presented by such communications, but I'm not sure what would work the best.  A party system encouraging players to group up  could trigger group specific sounds and animations, maybe adding a bit of a strategy element to the gameplay,  having a variety of squad formations could add a bit of character to playing together (i.e. Bandit squads have different functionality than Hero squads have different functionality than Survivor squads) but it still couldn't prevent the use of external communications & would only have a limited ability to balance out what that entails...   I'm not saying the core game needs anything like this, but it is eventually going to support mods, you know... Some people are quite fond of brainstorming stuff like this...  I think we're all entitled to use our imaginations.

are there any private servers out there that promote this level of realism?

Edited August 23, 2015 by sushimaster

[-DMG-Jonesy 226]

Just because your idea is "simple," that doesn't mean instituting it will be.

It ain't going to happen.  

There are a myriad number of ways around ANY "simple" solution you can come up with, short of having a guard physically standing behind each player to make sure they abide by your convoluted rule set.  
 

 

[q.S Sachiel 470]

That is exactly my point - I want friends to use in-game voice, as if they were actually in the place together.

And how would you propose organising this merry get together with your friends i wonder?

 

And just to stoke the flames - as i do love to play the devil's advocate - you'd have better luck getting BE to check the computer for all 3p chat and voip systems and then kick from server if found running...

 

but then we play through steam, so..

Edited August 24, 2015 by q.S Sachiel

[BeefBacon 1185]

I am not engaging groups, they are engaging me. For sports. I like to have at least a chance and for that I need to hear what evil plans they are hatching out. I am aware that shooting at a group and causing chaos is much easier than trying to escape one. I play on constantly full 50 player servers and have 1-4 engagements every session. Very rarely these are friendly encounters an never have I had any luck with 2 men groups, especially if they had worse equipment than me. I just want to level the playing field by saying: hey, if you are talking to each other on Skype and not on Direct, you have an advantage, because I can't trust you. If I had a way to hear what people are actually saying to each other, the problem would go away. Or I would avoid them, if they actually wear the headphone models I proposed. It puzzles me you can't see how TS3 or Skype are not fair. Why do you guys want to constantly chat to each other anyway. Press a goddamn button, if you have something to say, if not stfu.

 

And I am saying (all the time) - this could be an option for some servers, so if you need to have TS, go to a server where the recognition isn't on. Battleye scans your PC for third-party software, before entering a server. Simply include the main programs for VOIP into Battleyes list and then force a model onto players that displays a headset. I think it would be recognizable, even if someone wears a helmet. Stuff is glitching through everything anyway. And if you think you look stupid with it, then play on a server that doesn't have the extra ruleset for Battleye. Simple, all parties happy.   

 

I keep Skype running in the background for work stuff. I guess I'd just have to run Skype on my laptop or phone or tablet like literally everybody else would in order to hide my third-party comms.

 

Yeah, it sucks that people can use third-party comms. I've been caught out by it before I have no doubt, but there's no viable way to curb it. The headphones thing is certainly the best idea I've seen since it's largely non intrusive, but it'll penalise guys like me who leave Skype open in the background, and it won't affect players who really want to hide the fact that they are chatting with their buddies. 

[mercules 1290]

  The game should be able to detect, if someone is running Skype or TS3 in the background, right? 

 

At which point tech savvy people such as myself will either run a non-common communication system on their computer or patch it through the 5 other devices I can use for communication including my VOIP phone hooked into my network.  

 

[What about that suggestion earlier about having Battleye refuse to launch DayZ if it detects certain other software running? Is that not feasible/ethical/legal?]

 

Nope, it is not feasible to cover all the various programs that can do VOIP or secondary systems. 

 

 Battleye scans your PC for third-party software, before entering a server. Simply include the main programs for VOIP into Battleyes list and then force a model onto players that displays a headset. I think it would be recognizable, even if someone wears a helmet.

 

BE would have to be run as an admin on the computer to scan everything. When my kids mess with my computer they are on their own accounts which do NOT have admin rights and so can not run anything "as admin". So if BE had a requirement of needing to run under an admin account to properly scan then my kids would not be able to install and run DayZ properly. 

...and none of this is in any way addressing secondary systems. It would take me less than a minute to hook into TS on my phone and run earbuds designed with pass through sound(have a pair on my desk) under my sound suppressing gaming headset and no program on my computer is going to detect that. You would need a guy named Bruce standing behind every DayZ player to eliminate third party VOIP.

[derLoko 30]

 

but then we play through steam, so..

 

 

Ha, finally a good argument. I completely forgot that Steam has built-in VoIP. I guess that kills "blocking 3rd-party programs" for good, leaving only "all mics on" as an option.

 

...and none of this is in any way addressing secondary systems. It would take me less than a minute to hook into TS on my phone and run earbuds designed with pass through sound (have a pair on my desk) under my sound suppressing gaming headset and no program on my computer is going to detect that.

 

What do you mean with "pass through sound"?

 

It's true, some people will set up their smartphones to use them for communication - but it's kind of a hassle and not much fun to play that way. The majority of griefers hopefully won't bother and will simply play on regular servers instead, and admins can try to filter out the rest. That's the whole point.

 

If there is no deterrent to griefing at all, tho... have fun being an admin dealing with all the griefers on an "ingame comms only"-server. 

Edited August 24, 2015 by derLoko