The Psychology of Understanding Alpha

[Weyland Yutani (DayZ) 1159]

DayZ SA is my first Alpha experience and wow, what a ride. I love it! New updates (stable as well as exp) are like Christmas to me. I understand the concept of pre-alpha, alpha, beta, release. Not all that complicated, very cut and dry imho.

 

I run a community with a few thousand people in it. I, as well as my staff team of administrators (they all have a high level of education) and moderators deal with certain issues on a daily basis. Needless to say, we see a lot of issues. Some issues are new, most of them aren't new.

 

A recurring issue I can't seem to grasp is: alpha development related complaints. They all know its alpha, but at the same time its like they don't. There is a perpetual state of forced ignorance.

 

I know a certain pre-alpha tester here that just so happens to have a degree in Sociology. I posed this question to him. His answer was: they payed money for SA and have inherent expectations.

 

Is this really the case? Despite warnings and detailed info plastered all over the place, all of which gets ignored?

 

Surely there has to be more to it than that? Is the current generation consumer really that simple, surely not?

 

I want to learn and understand this phenomenon. Looking forward to a healthy deduction here.

Edited August 21, 2015 by Weyland Yutani

[blackberrygoo 1416]

People just want what they want regardless of how it truly should be treated based on reason ...

This is just denial on their parts imo , why they deny could be for many different reasons , my friends deny the greatness that is standalone because they have no patience to experience a great video game, they would rather play games that get them right in and have them playing end content in a few hours or a deathmatch game ... But they agree with me thay they could never spend as many hours on those games as they could standalone , once you beat it or play the deathmatch thing long enough you get bored plain and simple .

It's the nature of people I guess , they want "it" to be perfect and when it's not they get angry at all the things they were told would happen ! But this game is great enough that it will change a lot of those people's mindsets , once standalone is feature complete and getting bug fixed left and right people won't be able to stay away , and hopefully without all these crazy complaints because by then alpha will be a long forgotten thing that we testers will only miss .

[Coheed_IV 381]

I think the lack of understanding comes from comparing this Alpha or EA to another games Alpha or EA. If this is your first, then it's actually easier. Most games do not allow access as early as DayZ did, and I cant think of any that where doing major engine changes during. This scope changed after EA release. Bottom line is you cant compare game development, they are all unique.

Edited August 21, 2015 by Coheed_IV

[caik 122]

I think it is a problem within our brains. I generally want everything to be perfect for me and others can deal with bugs and glitches. When it happens to me, I get angry (even if i just clicked the "I understand" box two seconds before). Fortunately I manage not to bitch about it here.

 

I'm guessing those of us that played the mod will be more patient than those that didn't. Some of my friends wont play at the moment due to their low Alpha tolerence.

[TheStalkerMonk 6]

None of this surprise me at all....just look at headlines these days, when some star changes hair color and it becomes front page news, you don't need a degree to know what fuel the country, any country for that matter. Lower possible common denominator "rules"

 

I'm surprised that you have 857 posts...by the way i didn't and i won't click your banner, i mean come on....the big clown shows gave you away in front of the door.

[☣BioHaze☣ 7337]

You left out one crucial point in the OP.

 

That just the way DayZ is being built probably causes the SA to have more bugs than the average.

 

We are swapping ALL the core components on to new tech.

 

This is something most studios wouldn't normally try internally let alone in an open alpha.

Edited August 21, 2015 by BioHaze

[Parazight 1599]

Sometimes people pay money and then demand/expect to be satisfied because they put payment forward, regardless of warnings.

[BCBasher 2465]

Sometimes people pay money and then demand/expect to be satisfied because they put payment forward, regardless of warnings.

 

And allot of those whiners think $30 is a whole damn lot of money, news flash I turn thirty bucks into piss by 10pm most Saturdays and I'm just getting started.

 

Even if they said fuck it tomorrow and scrapped the game I've got way more than the $60 worth of fun out of the 2 copies I bought already.

[odin_lowe 3686]

You left out one crucial point in the OP.

 

That just the way DayZ is being built probably causes the SA to have more bugs than the average.

 

We are swapping ALL the core components on to new tech.

 

This is something most studios wouldn't normally try internally let alone in an open alpha.

Somehow this is only partially true.

 

Unlike OP, I've tested and participated in dozens of alphas, betas and early access games (when they were not called "early access") and currently, a big change in engine and tech seem to be the norm.

 

Games like The Dead Linger, Stranded Deep, Survive the Nights, Dangerous Rays and a few others have completely dropped the engine they first created their games on, and moved to other engines transferring and re-creating everything they had already done to their new engine.

 

That being said, most if not all of those titles uses engines already existing like Unity 5, or Unreal engine. While DayZ is creating the engine as the development progress.

 

I'm glad to be part of the process and going on the journey with you guys.  B)   :thumbsup:

 

P.S.: I think the first Alpha(s) I tested was a closed access to Söldner (In Feb 2004) and Heroes of might and magic 5 (In Sept 2005). Although those titles are very different than those of today, it started a passion in alphas, betas and all things related to games being developed.

[odin_lowe 3686]

None of this surprise me at all....just look at headlines these days, when some star changes hair color and it becomes front page news, you don't need a degree to know what fuel the country, any country for that matter. Lower possible common denominator "rules"

 

I'm surprised that you have 857 posts...by the way i didn't and i won't click your banner, i mean come on....the big clown shows gave you away in front of the door.

The Colony is probably the best DayZ community apart from the Experimental branch community we built throughout the various builds.

 

Long live the Colony! 

[svisketyggeren 662]

.... Looking forward to a healthy deduction here.

 

Induction...not deduction

[gannon46 788]

I bought it because i think they can pull it off to completion. and we are not patient.

[derLoko 30]

Games like The Dead Linger, Stranded Deep, Survive the Nights, Dangerous Rays and a few others have completely dropped the engine they first created their games on, and moved to other engines transferring and re-creating everything they had already done to their new engine.

 

 

What? I don't think Stranded Deep or Survive the Nights switched engines, never heard of that before. Engine switches during development are quite rare, especially with more "professional" games.

Edited August 21, 2015 by derLoko

[Avant-Garde 229]

And allot of those whiners think $30 is a whole damn lot of money, news flash I turn thirty bucks into piss by 10pm most Saturdays and I'm just getting started.

 

Even if they said fuck it tomorrow and scrapped the game I've got way more than the $60 worth of fun out of the 2 copies I bought already.

 

 

Here in Brazil this game costs more then 70 fucking reais (HUEland money), while other games like Chivalry:Medieval Warfare costs like 40, even 10 bucks on promotions. So yeah, if you ask me, I have high as fuck expectations for a tittle that is this goddamn expensive and with so much propaganda about it tbh. Also, at the moment, there is nothing special about this game that you can't experience for free in the mod so...

In my opinion, not worth the money. You can get way more interesting games for less monies.

 

 But they agree with me thay they could never spend as many hours on those games as they could standalone , once you beat it or play the deathmatch thing long enough you get bored plain and simple .

 

It depends on what kind of game you are talking about. Some of these "deathmatch" games have such high skill ceiling that DayZ wouldn't even imagine in having. For example, Chivalry: Medieval Warfare. You take a LOOOONNG time to get anything close to be a decent player. Its a game that now I have almost 3000h (quick note: I paid something like 4, 5 dollars in this game). Quake is another great example, people play this game for years and years and it simply doesn't get old, you can always improve and git gud. Of course there are those newb Cowaduddy shit out there that is so dumb and shallow beyond belief that you can't even understand why people waste their time with such bullshit games.

 

Dayz I have what, 400-500h? And I already saw everything this game has to offer at the moment, the skill ceiling in dayz is ridiculous, there is almost nothing to "git gud" at, just find new added loot, drive around, kill people because you are bored etc. If you are not really enthusiastic with zombie Apocalypse and survival mumbojumbo (which I'm not tbh), this game gets old quite quickly at the moment, as there is nothing really hard to master, its all more about "dayz experience" and tbh, that by itself will not hold this game, especially for veterans who already experienced things, in my opinion. This game seriously lacks replay value once you know shit. Thats why I bitch so much about better melee system, it would give players something to master, would fill a hole in this game.

 

The skill ceiling is way to low in DayZ and that affects replay value in a multiplayer game. In a few hours + some youtube videos and you are all set to be a pr0 survivor with mad sk1lls knowing it all, different from "deathmatch" games, where you might know what you have to do and you can watch youtube tutorials all you want, but you need to practice like a nerd to do it well. it has a reason for you to go back and play the game again. I feel like I just come back to play DayZ to see how development progress, not really because the game mechanics are interesting, idk. The "dayz experience" vanishes after you stop being a newb and there is not much left and I ask myself, why will I even come back to this game when its released, since a lot of the fun is to fallow the development?

 

But you know, answering OP, I do believe that your friend is correct. People paid for this, and since it is in development and this game is expensive, I guess they will have high expectations. At least that is how I think, paid a lot of money for this, I expect a gud product tbh.

 

PS: Sorry for the wall of text in such bad written english lol, I hope you guys can understand eheheh

Edited August 21, 2015 by Avant-Garde

[cash81 506]

And allot of those whiners think $30 is a whole damn lot of money, news flash I turn thirty bucks into piss by 10pm most Saturdays and I'm just getting started.

 

Even if they said fuck it tomorrow and scrapped the game I've got way more than the $60 worth of fun out of the 2 copies I bought already.

This.

Money spent on entertainment should be based on how much entertainment you have received for said money.

14 bucks to go watch a terrible movie for 2 hours. = 7 bucks an hour for no entertainment.

60 bucks for payperview ufc night that turns out great. = 20 bucks an hour for sweet entertainment.

30 bucks for dayz sa. Hundreds of hours of entertainment (results vary) = pennies per hour.

Back to OP. People come in expecting to play a fully functioning game. Not knowing that we are only here for bug reports and feedback until completion. Once the game is done, then we can do a final critique. Until then, we all paid for the process.

[BCBasher 2465]

Here in Brazil this game costs more then 70 fucking reais (HUEland money), while other games like Chivalry:Medieval Warfare costs like 40, even 10 bucks on promotions. So yeah, if you ask me, I have high as fuck expectations for a tittle that is this goddamn expensive and with so much propaganda about it tbh. Also, at the moment, there is nothing special about this game that you can't experience for free in the mod so...

In my opinion, not worth the money. You can get way more interesting games for less monies.

 

It depends on what kind of game you are talking about. Some of these "deathmatch" games have such high skill ceiling that DayZ wouldn't even imagine in having. For example, Chivalry: Medieval Warfare. You take a LOOOONNG time to get anything close to be a decent player. Its a game that now I have almost 3000h. Quake is another great example, people play this game for years and years and it simply doesn't get old, you can always improve and git gud. Of course there are those newb Cowaduddy shit out there that is so dumb and shallow beyond belief that you can't even understand why people waste their time with such bullshit games.

 

Dayz I have what, 400-500h? And I already saw everything this game has to offer at the moment, the skill ceiling in dayz is ridiculous, there is almost nothing to "git gud" at, just find new added loot, drive around, kill people because you are bored etc. If you are not really enthusiastic with zombie Apocalypse and survival mumbojumbo (which I'm not tbh), this game gets old quite quickly at the moment, as there is nothing really hard to master, its all more about "dayz experience" and tbh, that by itself will not hold this game, especially for veterans who already experienced things, in my opinion. This game seriously lacks replay value once you know shit. Thats why I bitch so much about better melee system, it would give players something to master, would fill a hole in this game.

 

The skill ceiling is way to low in DayZ and that affects replay value in a multiplayer game. In a few hours + some youtube videos and you are all set to be a pr0 survivor with mad sk1lls knowing it all, different from "deathmatch" games, where you might know what you have to do and you can watch youtube tutorials all you want, but you need to practice like a nerd to do it well. it has a reason for you to go back and play the game again. I feel like I just come back to play DayZ to see how development progress, not really because the game mechanics are interesting, idk. The "dayz experience" vanishes after you stop being a newb and there is not much left.

 

But you know, answering OP, I do believe that your friend is correct. People paid for this, and since it is in development and this game is expensive, I guess they will have high expectations. At least that is how I think, paid a lot of money for this, I expect a gud product tbh.

 

Just did the conversion on that and you paid $10 Canadian dollars less than I did. Just because your country's currency has higher numbers doesn't mean anything. Sorry you live in a developing country with lower wage standards but if you're complaining about how expensive video games are maybe you need to adjust your priorities or get a better job?

[Coheed_IV 381]

Here in Brazil

oh...now I understand why you are obsessed with hitting things. If I was in Brazil I would want to hit it too....

[Avant-Garde 229]

Just did the conversion on that and you paid $10 Canadian dollars less than I did. Just because your country's currency has higher numbers doesn't mean anything. Sorry you live in a developing country with lower wage standards but if you're complaining about how expensive video games are maybe you need to adjust your priorities or get a better job?

I understand your point, I'm not really complaining you know, I was just saying that imo its a expensive game compared to some others, thus its normal that people will have high expectations.

 

oh...now I understand why you are obsessed with hitting things. If I was in Brazil I would want to hit it too....

This country....makes you mad my friend. VERY mad. Caveman levels of madness that I just want to swing an axe to someones face until it doesn't even look human anymore, in fact, axe might be just to quickly. A stone knife might be better for this, NO, MEAT TENDERIZER, its perfect!!1!1 Brb i'm going to be..."friendly" to someone in the game right now

[odin_lowe 3686]

What? I don't think Stranded Deep or Survive the Nights switched engines, never heard of that before. Engine switches during development are quite rare, especially with more "professional" games.

Yep. About 3 weeks ago Stranded Deep went from unity 4 to unity 5.

 

Same with Survive the Nights. The build that was shown for the kickstarter was completely scrapped, and they're redoing everything. I participated in the first and second stress tests that just happened a week ago, and almost everything you saw in the videos was absent in the stress test builds. There's currently no vehicles, no zombies, almost no items, no crafting, no animals. It's only to test online features and gradually redo all of the game. 

 

Quick google search on both subjects will give you the exact dates, reasons and details on both game's engine switch.

 

Edit:

Stranded Deep http://beamteamgames.com/tag/stranded-deep/

 

Survive the Nights forums http://www.community.survivethenights.net/

Edited August 22, 2015 by Odin Lowe

[Weyland Yutani (DayZ) 1159]

I'm surprised that you have 857 posts...by the way i didn't and i won't click your banner, i mean come on....the big clown shows gave you away in front of the door.

I don't understand what you're getting at with being surprised with my post count. Can you be more specific? I don't have a banner to click. There is a link underneath the banner that goes to my YouTube channel. Also, not sure what big clown shows means. Did you mean big clown shoes? If yes, I still don't understand what you're talking about.

 

Induction...not deduction

Deduction is finding data to support an argument whereas induction or inductive reasoning is where an argument is made to explain existing data. Honestly, I really can't stand posters like yourself. Someone spells something wrong, enter grammar nazi trying to derail an intelligent conversation. 

 

Here in Brazil this game costs more then 70 fucking reais (HUEland money), while other games like Chivalry:Medieval Warfare costs like 40, even 10 bucks on promotions. So yeah, if you ask me, I have high as fuck expectations for a tittle that is this goddamn expensive and with so much propaganda about it tbh. Also, at the moment, there is nothing special about this game that you can't experience for free in the mod so...

In my opinion, not worth the money. You can get way more interesting games for less monies.

 

But you know, answering OP, I do believe that your friend is correct. People paid for this, and since it is in development and this game is expensive, I guess they will have high expectations. At least that is how I think, paid a lot of money for this, I expect a gud product tbh.

This isn't an attack so don't take it the wrong way, but because the dollar is weak in your country this has an impact on how you perceive an alpha release of SA despite warnings from developers? Why would your expectations be high when the developers say your expectations should be low? You're making up your own standards based on something the developers have zero control over. Do you think thats logical or even fair for that matter?

 

Why would you expect a "good" product when it says its not a good/finished product?

Edited August 22, 2015 by Weyland Yutani

[brzator47@gmail.com 524]

Except early access games is a fairly new concept and cannot be treated the same way as REAL alphas. An "alpha" open to public, ie anyone willing to pay $$, is not really for "testing". It's always hilarious to see people claiming we're not players but rather testers because that's how alphas work. Yeah, no.

Although we do have people with unrealistic expectations we also have those who think a game should be exempt from criticism because devs have put up an "alpha" sign in game menus. Both are equally annoying and wrong.

[Avant-Garde 229]

 

I don't understand what you're getting at with being surprised with my post count. Can you be more specific? I don't have a banner to click. There is a link underneath the banner that goes to my YouTube channel. Also, not sure what big clown shows means. Did you mean big clown shoes? If yes, I still don't understand what you're talking about.

 

Deduction is finding data to support an argument whereas induction or inductive reasoning is where an argument is made to explain existing data. Honestly, I really can't stand posters like yourself. Someone spells something wrong, enter grammar nazi trying to derail an intelligent conversation. 

 

This isn't an attack so don't take it the wrong way, but because the dollar is weak in your country this has an impact on how you perceive an alpha release of SA despite warnings from developers? Why would your expectations be high when the developers say your expectations should be low? You're making up your own standards based on something the developers have zero control over. Do you think thats logical or even fair for that matter?

 

Why would you expect a "good" product when it says its not a good/finished product?

 

My high expectations are on the end product, not on the alpher stage. Maybe I wasn't clear about that, I'm sorry. I expect nothing but lag and bugs on the alpher lol, but the end product I do expect it to be good because in my opinion, this was a expensive game compared to others.

Edited August 22, 2015 by Avant-Garde

[pjano 34]

Yeah as said in OP, comes down to the fact that millions of dollars were thrown at the game and they stripped out all the main features out of the early mod (and are slowly adding them back in). People had high expectations based on the mod.

[P0rkchop 31]

It's almost like a way for them to not accept responsibility. Alpha my game forever and yell at anyone who complains about anything that it is in alpha. 

 

This game has been in alpha for 2 years which is longer than a lot of games full development. Keep in mind we had a pretty decent mod for years and all the development time before it even became alpha. Then add in the continuous missed deadlines and all the other empty promises we keep getting and I think you should be able to see why people are frustrated.

 

And this is all coming from someone who would consider DayZ their favorite game. 

Edited August 23, 2015 by P0rkchop

[byrgesen 1341]

You can lead a horse to water, but you cant force it to drink, like the old saying goes hehe.

 

People know what alpha, beta and release client means, as a single word, but they dont understand that no two alphas are the same, no two betas are the same and no two release clients are the same.

If DayZ is your first ever alpha experience, its both a good and a bad thing.

 

Good as in its actually been completely playable throughout the entire public alpha, i cant remember a single bug/glitch/error of some sort that caused thousands of people to not be able to play the game, until next update, can you?

Ive been in many other alphas that was either "time-limited" (guild wars 2), down right impossible to even get into the game at times (Project Zomboid) or doesnt get any updates for 5+ months (Killing Floor 2), DayZ is neither and that makes me happy. We also have two branches to actually play/test the game, which most alpha's doesnt, so you can chose if you want buggy alpha or super buggy alpha ;)

 

Bad as in this is a very "rough" alpha because they invited us into it so very very early in development. 95%+ of all alphas out there have a finished engine behind it, DayZ does not. During the DayZ SA development, the entire engine is being developed, side by side, with the game and implemented as we go along. Most other companies doesnt do this.

 

DayZ EA has had its ups and downs, but i would not consider it a failure.

If people cant comprehend that developing a game in this way is extremly time consuming (as in 5+ years most likely), even after being hit in the face with big red letters, tons of public information and numerous warning, im really not sure how to get through to them....

Edited August 23, 2015 by Byrgesen