Rock beats scissors, scissors beats paper, paper beats rock?

[Coheed_IV 381]

 

We are at the moment discussing the RPS (that's how we call it among animators) how to approach the fact the players need to choose rock, paper or scissors during this gesture.

 

                  

Very happy to see this getting implemented. It will lead to many interesting interactions.

 

I just wanted to get in my thoughts on how the choosing gets worked out. And hear any other ideas.

 

The trick is to get two players synced and have them decide before they reveal what they have chosen.

 

IRL, I've taught my three kids this way and it could work in game too. Usually it works by throwing down rock 3 times in sync (while saying rock-paper-scissors=shoot), showing choice on shoot.

 

Two ways in-game IMO

 

1. The rock shooting could be indefinite until a player around you is doing it too (it would be like searching). Once the players are both rock shooting they then choose. Only during the intro gesture of indefinite rock shooting are you able to choose the finishing gesture, once both have chosen the finishing gesture it would end with both showing final gesture synced.

 

2. Or it could be more of a manual three rock shoots, then each player picks final gesture(only while doing the intro gesture), what gesture they pick is done during the first 2/3 of 3 rock shoot intro. The key here is the finishing gesture could only be chosen during the first two rocks of the intro gesture, or nothing is shown to avoid cheating.  

Edited August 20, 2015 by Coheed_IV

[odin_lowe 3686]

I like the second option more.  :thumbsup:

 

Very interested to see what they'll end up doing with that.

[d.walker43 196]

I agree, there could be some funny interactions. The only question I have is why are we working on extra things like this, when we could be working on, well, important features to finish the game? Stuff like this should be in Beta or even after release. not now.

[blackberrygoo 1416]

I agree, there could be some funny interactions. The only question I have is why are we working on extra things like this, when we could be working on, well, important features to finish the game? Stuff like this should be in Beta or even after release. not now.

These extra "things" are extra projects done that make dayz shine in the dirty group of many badly detailed survival games out there .. Can you really say that many other games have a hands up button (and thought about it before dayz not after) or a detailed inventory system like dayz being able to use your pockets on your clothing , or just anything worth mentioning that fills the detailess void that is many a survival games content .

These things are done because the developers are confident in what they do and at the end of alpha their game will be so much more polished than any other beta game out there . That's why the extra projects are undertaken , as small as they may be .

Edited August 21, 2015 by Grapefruit kush

[Coheed_IV 381]

I agree, there could be some funny interactions. The only question I have is why are we working on extra things like this, when we could be working on, well, important features to finish the game? Stuff like this should be in Beta or even after release. not now.

Yeah, it is easy for someone to wonder this when looking at what changes in our stable version. Most of the big important features your talking about are being worked on. Most of these are involved with Enfusion engine upgrades. These are on internal builds, and probably would make us drool. The flip side of that is they can't just add the engine module, but also subtract it (successfully pull out the engine parts involved with what we are playing on).

 

While all this work goes on and we don't even notice, like the inventory code refactoring, major pain, we don't even really get a benefit. But, the server will be able to do more with this done and that means good things.

 

So as these big picture features get engine work they have a long list of content that slowly will be pushed to stable, this long list will make DayZ stand out as extremely detailed when finished.

[Avant-Garde 229]

These extra "things" are extra projects done that make dayz shine in the dirty group of many badly detailed survival games out there ..

They could do more useful thing to archive this same purpose, like improving melee mechanics to a decent level, no survival games has this so far. Rock papers scissors is just stupid tbh lol. You know, this kind of shit makes me sad about this game...

 

Oh well.. We will be circlestrafing and spamming attacks like no tomorrow in this very realistic simulator, BUT HEY, ROCK PAPER SCISSORS@!!1HUE

 

And surprisingly enough, this community cries about goddamn train cargos that are not realistic and other minimal useless shit, but for some reason its just ok to spam melee attacks and circle strafe, thats realism it looks like, thats how melee fighting works in real life it seems.

 

Sorry, I think I got a bit mad here lol

Edited August 21, 2015 by Avant-Garde

[DemonGroover 8836]

I'm running out of hotkeys

[Coheed_IV 381]

Sorry, I think I got a bit mad here lol

LOL, I know you've been flying your melee flag for a long time, and I'm happy for you. Maybe we need to wait until the new player character is in. I cant imagine them doing anything with melee until then, or maybe I don't know jack shit..

 

I do know..... that ROCK PAPER SCISSORS@!!1HUE

 

The possibilities with first and second animation in the picture! Just think rock, rock, rock.....I sense a reshoot of the DayZ Porn :D  Let's hope you can use that scissor gesture while crouched, LOL

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Er0o9JZ4sXE

Edited August 21, 2015 by Coheed_IV

[Avant-Garde 229]

LOL, I know you've been flying your melee flag for a long time, and I'm happy for you. Maybe we need to wait until the new player character is in. I cant imagine them doing anything with melee until then, or maybe I don't know jack shit..

 

I do know..... that ROCK PAPER SCISSORS@!!1HUE

 

The possibilities with first and second animation in the picture! Just think rock, rock, rock.....I sense a reshoot of the DayZ Porn :D  Let's hope you can use that scissor gesture while crouched, LOL

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Er0o9JZ4sXE

AHAHHAHAHHAHHAh m8, wtf did I just watched, this channel is pure gold! Thanks for that! Now I see a valid reason for rock paper scissors lol, p0rn is very noble reason tbh

 

Yeah I actually have faith that the new animation system will allow us to see a more fleshed out melee mechanics, but maybe this just isn't in the scope of the game, I don't really know... What can we do, but wait (and occasional rant lol)? I think that maybe if people care enough we might see this, otherwise nope.

Edited August 21, 2015 by Avant-Garde

[ColdAtrophy 1850]

I agree, there could be some funny interactions. The only question I have is why are we working on extra things like this, when we could be working on, well, important features to finish the game? Stuff like this should be in Beta or even after release. not now.

 

What exactly is it that you think animators could be doing but aren't due to this? Do you have some inside track to the scheduling at Bohemia or something? 

[d.walker43 196]

What exactly is it that you think animators could be doing but aren't due to this? Do you have some inside track to the scheduling at Bohemia or something? 

Do I have a specific example or inside track, no. But what I do have is a basic understanding of how a early access game is supposed to operate. Core features go in in pre-alpha, then extra stuff comes in beta/after release. I think rock/paper/scissors emotes counts as being "extra". They need to be working on their core features and polishing the existing items, not wasting their time with extras, otherwise the game will never be done. I guess I think they should be working on base building, or more vehicles, or something that needs to be done before beta. The other stuff can wait. Otherwise we will be in early access until 2020.

[Weyland Yutani (DayZ) 1159]

But what I do have is a basic understanding of how a early access game is supposed to operate. Core features go in in pre-alpha, then extra stuff comes in beta/after release. I think rock/paper/scissors emotes counts as being "extra". They need to be working on their core features and polishing the existing items, not wasting their time with extras, otherwise the game will never be done. I guess I think they should be working on base building, or more vehicles, or something that needs to be done before beta. The other stuff can wait. Otherwise we will be in early access until 2020.

Do you now?

 

Ever think that there are certain devs assigned to core features and certain devs that are not?

 

Do you think the guys doing vehicle models (Chris Torchia) do player animations (Viktor Kane)?

 

What you suggest would in fact make early access end in 2020. If everybody but core feature devs go on vacation until its done and then they bring in the 3D and Animation devs it would take a lot longer than what they're doing now.

Edited August 21, 2015 by Weyland Yutani

[Parazight 1598]

Press gesture hotkey to enter RPS stance. 

 

Wait for another player in RPS stance, within range.

 

Activate RPS function.  Random result.

 

Problem solved for choosing.

[OrLoK 16182]

Do I have a specific example or inside track, no. But what I do have is a basic understanding of how a early access game is supposed to operate. Core features go in in pre-alpha, then extra stuff comes in beta/after release. I think rock/paper/scissors emotes counts as being "extra". They need to be working on their core features and polishing the existing items, not wasting their time with extras, otherwise the game will never be done. I guess I think they should be working on base building, or more vehicles, or something that needs to be done before beta. The other stuff can wait. Otherwise we will be in early access until 2020.

Hello there

 

Imagine DAYZ as a car you've bought in for restoration.

 

The Mechanics are going to work on the engine and "moving parts" to make the car actually function, whilst the Upholsterers are taking away that shoddy interior and seats to re cover or replace the ripped up panels and seats.

 

Both jobs are important and both jobs on the whole are separate. The efficient way to do it is all at once rather than waiting for the chassis to be built and then do the upholstery.

 

Does that make sense or am I rambling?

 

Rgds

 

LoK

[Parazight 1598]

I guess I think they should be working on base building, or more vehicles, or something that needs to be done before beta. The other stuff can wait. 

 

So, you believe they should get beta out first, and then add this stuff later?

[Cr4cksh0t 6]

I usally always win jenken , there is a simple floor for insecure people.

 

when you say 1.2.3 show.. for 1 and 2. your already doing rock..

[Coheed_IV 381]

Press gesture hotkey to enter RPS stance. 

 

Wait for another player in RPS stance, within range.

 

Activate RPS function.  Random result.

 

Problem solved for choosing.

I was thinking this originally, but then thought it didn't sound very DayZ to have the game choose, especially with Captain Player Choice around.  

 

IRL you can win much more by thinking, but I don't know if it really translates to the game. Would love to find out though :)

Edited August 21, 2015 by Coheed_IV

[blackberrygoo 1416]

AHAHHAHAHHAHHAh m8, wtf did I just watched, this channel is pure gold! Thanks for that! Now I see a valid reason for rock paper scissors lol, p0rn is very noble reason tbh

Yeah I actually have faith that the new animation system will allow us to see a more fleshed out melee mechanics, but maybe this just isn't in the scope of the game, I don't really know... What can we do, but wait (and occasional rant lol)? I think that maybe if people care enough we might see this, otherwise nope.

Well I think if you cared to look into the devs twitters , the Dev tracker a long time ago , and these forims in general you would see that the devs display disappointment in the melee system as well and have repeatedly said they wanted it much more robust before full release .... I really don't Have any worries , these devs don't lie like many others , they just take a while to implement what they've said ! Have faith man and maybe try to shoot instead of melee once in a while !

[d.walker43 196]

Hello there

 

Imagine DAYZ as a car you've bought in for restoration.

 

The Mechanics are going to work on the engine and "moving parts" to make the car actually function, whilst the Upholsterers are taking away that shoddy interior and seats to re cover or replace the ripped up panels and seats.

 

Both jobs are important and both jobs on the whole are separate. The efficient way to do it is all at once rather than waiting for the chassis to be built and then do the upholstery.

 

Does that make sense or am I rambling?

 

Rgds

 

LoK

What your saying makes perfect sense, yes. However, your example is not really whats going on. Mechanics and Upholstery are both important features, such as, say, vehicles and base building, among many others. Using your car restore example, I think RPS emotes would be like adding a spoiler. Its not important to the use or function of the car, just like RPS is not necessarily important. You would add a spoiler or other accessory after getting the car running and looking good, just like they should add RPS after most or all core functions are in.

 

What we're saying isn't neccesarily right or wrong, its more of our opinions on the matter. I just think it makes sense to finish a game before adding extra little things.

[stinkenheim 249]

What your saying makes perfect sense, yes. However, your example is not really whats going on. Mechanics and Upholstery are both important features, such as, say, vehicles and base building, among many others. Using your car restore example, I think RPS emotes would be like adding a spoiler. Its not important to the use or function of the car, just like RPS is not necessarily important. You would add a spoiler or other accessory after getting the car running and looking good, just like they should add RPS after most or all core functions are in.

What we're saying isn't neccesarily right or wrong, its more of our opinions on the matter. I just think it makes sense to finish a game before adding extra little things.

Animators animate. That's their job, it's what they are trained to do. Most can assist in texturing, modelling and rigging but will rarely be expected to do such unless in extreme circumstances.

Programmers programme, sound technicians work on the sounds, environment artists work on the environment. Each one of the groups may be able to do some of the work expected of another but won't generally be asked by the company to do that because that isn't the reason they were hired.

You do not hire an animator and then tell them they are expected to recode the engine on the game.

Adding different emotes and actions dies not detract from the development of the game as a whole and will only have been worked on by the animation team whilst other teams add in and work on the features you desire.

You just need to get your head around the concept that different teams have different skill sets and tasks and are able to work on projects without hindering another department.

+edit+ out of curiosity what do you for a job?

I was trained as and worked as an animator for a while and now teach art in schools.

If when I was working as an animator someone had said to me to programme x y and z then I wouldn't have been able to because that's not what I learned during my college and university education. If the asked me to texture a model or to build a model I could have done it, not to the same level as a modeller or texture artist but decently enough that it would have served basic needs.

Likewise the guys that did programming wouldn't have had a clue how to animate walk cycles etc because it's not their area.

The sane thing is true in my job now, I teach art. I'm pretty good at teaching it. I sometimes get asked to cover for teachers who are absent, just before the summer I had to cover a geography lesson. I'm not great at geography but the teacher had planned and resourced the lesson so I could deliver the facts she wanted. I couldn't answer all of the questions from the students because that's not my specialism. Did I teach it as well as she would have? No, because I'm not a geography teacher. Would the group have achieved high grades had I been teaching them geography all year? No, because I'm not a geography teacher.

Different jobs, different skill sets, different responsibilities and expectations. All working together to get the game finished to a high standard.

Edited August 22, 2015 by stinkenheim

[boneboys 7988]

Topic has been completely derailed.

For those that want to comment on the implementation of these particular animation additions please go here.

 

http://forums.dayzgame.com/index.php?/topic/228230-new-gestrures-wip-rock-paper-scissors-dance-on-shoulder/#entry2299147

 

Any off-topic / derailment will be moderated with extreme prejudice  :murder: