How would you feel if 1st person perspective was mandatory?

[mercules 1290]

2 Make sure you aren't being watched

This doesn't exist. Why? Because at the end of the day you can never know if someone is watching you. In 1pp they have to at least have a part of their head sticking out of cover to see you.

1PP fights:

 

1 Hide in a bush because no one can see me, right?

2 Run when you feel safe

 

I KNOW this isn't what happens but it's just an eye opener for you.

Eh... unlikely. 1pp you at least have to risk some body parts to gather information. It's a tradeoff. You could use concealment like a bush and hope they don't notice you(then again you can't swing the camera around to see how well you are concealed so sometimes it is a guess that is wrong) or hard cover but then you have to peek out a bit and risk getting shot. Either way to have eyes on target you have to expose yourself which means there is a trade-off and knowing when to risk exposure for intel is yet another skill and aspect of combat 3pp skips right over.

1st brings suppression into the mix too. 3rd he can shoot around and into your cover but you just laugh and watch him. In 1st you have a few shots zip past you, a few more, and then you wonder, "Is he waiting or reloading? Can I peek?" In 3pp you can see if he is reloading or ducked into cover or started running away...

[too-easy 56]

So it might be opinion but I can use factual evidence to support my opinion just like you are using your sickness as a fact to support your opinion that 3rd is better. I do have to ask though, is it all 1st person games, or just DayZ in 1st?

Even though I am only quoting this part, I do agree with many things you wrote.

I am not against 1pp, I just don't like it when some people don't seem to accept other people's oppinions.

The thing with my motion sickness is pretty inconsistent.

Some games cause it, others don't.

I have been playing games for about 20 years and the first game that caused the sickness was Half Life 2.

I play Crysis, the Far Cry games and many more without a problem.

Only very few games like Half Life 2 and now DayZ cause the sickness.

When DayZ is done I will try 1pp again and hope they changed something to fix my problem with 1pp.

The thing is that I have no idea what exactly is causing it. I tried several settings.

[mercules 1290]

The thing is that I have no idea what exactly is causing it. I tried several settings.

Headbob seems to be the worst offender for most people and I've run into a few that didn't know they could turn that option off. I'm sure you have already tried it though. The other things that it seems like affects others is low FPS or small jerky lag spikes. Maybe once DayZ is optimized and a bit slicker a low ping server might work for 1st person for you.

Then again it could be that the characters in DayZ tend to have a bit of 'weight' to them. Moving your mouse fast doesn't make them move anyfaster after a point and starting and stopping seem to have some shift in balance. That could throw people off. I know I ran around on a fun 1st/3rd server tonight and I spent a lot of time in 3rd. Once I got tangled into a bunch of buildings and was looting closed in spaces I pretty much had to switch to 1st and that first 5 minutes of it was rough. I quickly adapted again, but I did feel out of control and that might be what is doing that.

I have a hard time imagining getting sick from motion, I never have. One of the other games I play regularly is MWO and in that I play one of the fastest Mechs in the game. I also have a TrackIR which works for DayZ and MWO and in MWO playing my Commando I will snap my torso to the side while turning my head(pilot) to the other side to look out the side window and track things I am turned away from so that they can't get a great shot on me while zig-zagging. I will snap back around, shoot, and then snap to protect my center with my arms and sides. I do this while broken running at mechs to make projectile shots miss and rolling my torso back and forth so that lasers don't burn through any particular section but get spread out. This is all happening at 170kph in game and the Commando has quirks to make it turn faster than any other mech so I am really weaving, dodging, twisting, and snapshotting while I play.

Here is the point of that anecdote. Once dead teammates can observe things from your cockpit as if looking through your eyes. I have made several teammates ill or given them headaches trying to spectate as me. "I'm sorry Merc, I can't spectate you or I am going to hurl." So I really don't get the motion sickness thing although I rationally know it exists.

[benedictus 160]

I like 1pp more but i think for youtubers and other endgamers 3pp is the better option as there is more to look at. Removing either one would probably hurt the playerbase too much.

 

Each to their own.

[Briljin 102]

I wouldn't rage about it but I would just quit playing and move on to another game.  I have enjoyed my time playing Dayz, so would still feel I got my moneys worth and just move on to another game.

[blunce 991]

1PP is love.

1PP is life.

[pilgrim* 3513]

 there are 150 hardcore suicide-squad 1PP fanatics on the whole forum and  100% of them already voted

 

:)

Edited June 18, 2015 by pilgrim

[too-easy 56]

@Mercules: It is a strange thing and it really gets so bad that I have to stop playing to avoid throwing up.

Tried turning off head bobbing. Didn't help.

Will try again when we get to beta or release.

@topic: There were 5(!) 1pp servers with a ping under 200 in my list today and loads of 3pp servers; too many to count. ;)

[sneakydudes 278]

People brought up a good point, move onto other games. If it was forced.

How many would do this? do you think from the massive totals out there playing and not on the forums.

[sneakydudes 278]

@Mercules: It is a strange thing and it really gets so bad that I have to stop playing to avoid throwing up.

Tried turning off head bobbing. Didn't help.

Will try again when we get to beta or release.

@topic: There were 5(!) 1pp servers with a ping under 200 in my list today and loads of 3pp servers; too many to count. ;)

You do have it much worse then I do, I just get dizzy and walk away from it. But not all the time, somedays I can play for hours. My video is adjusted perfectly too, headbob was turned off day 1

[Jex 1104]

I could point to countless studies and psychology that shows that when people work for something they appreciate it more. There is a reason people are playing DayZ which is supposed to be a difficult struggle as opposed to countless other games where you do not have to worry about food, disease, and such and start with gear. Games where ammo falls off AI bodies so you don't have to carefully ration it, and such.

 

If you don't care about the PVP aspect of the game, well 3rd person makes everything easier. You can stalk AI animals who can't see you because you are behind cover that you can look over and around with 3rd person. You can easily avoid zombies in towns in the same way.

 

If you do care about the PVP portion 3rd person ends up boiling it down to hiding in cover watching your opponent hiding in cover. Many viable tactics get thrown out the window like suppression. CQC room clearing is a joke because either they are sitting in a location where they can see a person coming, or you can sweep a room without ever exposing yourself to fire.

 

On top of that being locked into 1st person adds another comparison value to things like Backpacks and Jackets as some end up blocking visibility when you look behind you. In 3rd this never even comes into play and so one whole "feature" of gear balance is ignored. You usually won't see someone in 1st run around with a mountain backpack unless those extra slots REALLY mean a lot to them because it completely blocks vision over your shoulders which you often use in 1st.

 

So it might be opinion but I can use factual evidence to support my opinion just like you are using your sickness as a fact to support your opinion that 3rd is better. I do have to ask though, is it all 1st person games, or just DayZ in 1st? 

 

It's hilarious that the game became so popular because it was ruthless and difficult (remember in the mod when the average lifespan was something like 1 minute?) and most people didn't even know 3rd person existed and played on 1st person - there were no cries then to introduce 3rd person and everyone loved the brutality of the game.

 

Move to today and we have people defending a play style that makes the game easy - they are the anti-anti-game people that want it easier or never played the mod in the early days before the crap like epoch came along. People say the old feeling of the game is gone, well, when you make things easier you lose the fear as well and there goes the experience.

[Jex 1104]

This doesn't exist. Why? Because at the end of the day you can never know if someone is watching you. In 1pp they have to at least have a part of their head sticking out of cover to see you.

Eh... unlikely. 1pp you at least have to risk some body parts to gather information. It's a tradeoff. You could use concealment like a bush and hope they don't notice you(then again you can't swing the camera around to see how well you are concealed so sometimes it is a guess that is wrong) or hard cover but then you have to peek out a bit and risk getting shot. Either way to have eyes on target you have to expose yourself which means there is a trade-off and knowing when to risk exposure for intel is yet another skill and aspect of combat 3pp skips right over.

1st brings suppression into the mix too. 3rd he can shoot around and into your cover but you just laugh and watch him. In 1st you have a few shots zip past you, a few more, and then you wonder, "Is he waiting or reloading? Can I peek?" In 3pp you can see if he is reloading or ducked into cover or started running away...

 

It's like being clairvoyant. In 3rd person, you know what's around the corner before you get to it. I like jumping out of my seat when a zed I missed leaps at me from the shadows into my face. That happened 0 times I played 3rd person. You want to run away from a zombie, in first person you don't know if 10 more are around the next corner, your limited view adds to the stress of the situation - all the gear you found so far could be gone - how do you lose the zeds, should I run up those stair or through that door - shit! It's a deadend...now u have to fight.....

 

3rd person has none of this. You see everything before it happens and you're floating eye above the action and untouchable. You play from the perspective you use and 3rd person has you floating in the sky above everything, care a free. 1st person has you in the shit and when the shit hits the fan, your heart rate goes up. Everything suddenly gets more personal because you're inside your avatar.

 

Since FPS and not TPS are more popular, I'd say that anyone claiming FPS are just not fun are wrong.

[mercules 1290]

...crap like epoch came along. 

 

Actually, Vanilla Epoch was not all that easy. The problem is that Epoch(due to the construction) can't be connected to a hive so all the servers were private servers and all those owners tended to mod Epoch into easy mode. "Safe Zones" do not exist in Epoch, nor do traders with unlimited inventory, or 10 million vehicles you can sell. Basically to get NVGs someone had to loot and sell them to a trader for it to go into the Trader DB, but people didn't like that so the owners would run a script to refill trader inventory every restart.

[DarkwaveDomina 1099]

It will never happen, but I would love it.

[Kayback 3]

There's 2 server options for a reason. I hate 1st person. I get headaches from it on this game.

 

3pp all the way.

I love 1pp but the blinding headaches and nausea limit my HC/Veteran/1PP play time to about 30 minutes. I've only ever felt this bad once before, on a budget bin FPS with cowboy guns. I've tried all different FOV and settings but it still messes me up.

 

I enjoy the ability in  DayZ to go 1PP when you need to but if I was forced to play that way? New game time.

[svisketyggeren 662]

Funny how this poll is shows how the majority really wants 3rd person gone...like all the other polls have shown.

 

But still some proclaim this is just the result of a vocal 1st person community. I dont believe it is.

Edited June 14, 2015 by svisketyggeren

[snipertrifle 23]

The ratio of 3rd person servers to 1st person servers shows how popular they both are.

[too-easy 56]

I have been the moderator in the forums of one of the biggest game publishers for more than 5 years now (I still am) and from my experience it's mostly the people with problems that come and visit a forum.

The people who don't have an issue usually just play the game.

One could say that it's the 1pp players who feel unhappy with the current situation and therefore come to the forums in greater numbers.

Most 3pp players just play the game.

Like I said before there are hardly any 1pp servers in my area, and even those are never full when I am online.

And again I say, the reason why some of us don't play 1pp is, that we get sick from it. I don't like throwing up on my keyboard. ^^

[ColdAtrophy 1850]

To be perfectly honest, I'd rather see one hive with a 3rd person camera that is fixed. After spending the last couple months on 1PP servers, I spent a good chunk of playtime on 3PP servers this weekend. Objectively speaking, what I found surprised me. 

 

I decided to map the Enter key to one of my mouse buttons. Why? I was switching camera modes constantly. Exiting or entering a building leaves you completely blind for a second as you walk through the doorway.  Also, when you are in a house with windows, the camera is plastered to the ceiling so you can't tell if someone is outside the house drawing a bead on you.

 

You can see everything. It's almost like having a drone following you around. While comforting, particularly when looting a town alone on a 45/50 server, there is no way that this camera view fits in with the design philosophies of DayZ. It takes away fear, discourages risk taking, and promotes stagnation. Does any of that sound like what DayZ aims to accomplish?

 

The devs need to adjust the camera some to take away information. It gives too much and requires too little from the player. I'm pretty sure they are working on that, and once they do get it tuned up really well, I will likely abandon the low pop 1PP servers and switch perspectives to my heart's content as I require on the 3PP servers. Until then? I will primarily play on 1PP servers. I know the PC community is generally okay with competitive games wherein all players are not always on equal footing, but I am not. Kill me because you are better, faster, smarter than me. Kill me because I gave myself away, made mistakes, etc. Kill me because you possess the ability to stand perfectly still and wait for the right moment to shoot me when my back is turned? Bullshit. There are too many locations in the game that allow a 3PP camera to see another player without exposing themselves, even if both players are in third person!

 

So, long story short, there is no reason for anyone to lose their preferred perspective. I am not advocating for an end to 3PP, despite the flaws I see in it. What I am actually advocating for is a more fair and balanced experience for everyone. That includes you 3PP guys.

[-Gews- 7443]

To be perfectly honest, I'd rather see one hive with a 3rd person camera that is fixed.

In a perfect world I'd like to see the same thing but all the proposed fixes are unacceptable to one group or the other. I don't want to play servers where switching into third person gives any tactical advantage. Other people don't want to play on servers where players and other dynamic objects your character can't see aren't rendered (the only complete and practical fix).

[ColdAtrophy 1850]

In a perfect world I'd like to see the same thing but all the proposed fixes are unacceptable to one group or the other. I don't want to play servers where switching into third person gives any tactical advantage. Other people don't want to play on servers where players and other dynamic objects your character can't see aren't rendered (the only complete and practical fix).

 

Actually, I'm going to do some research. I'm studying game design at the moment in college and this would probably be a good exercise for me. I can't say this with 100% certainty, but I feel like there are ways of fixing this and that other games have already done it successfully. I'm thinking the camera would have to be coded to contextually recognize specific objects (walls, roof edges, various pieces of cover, etc.) in the game world and disallow certain player controlled camera angles based on that. 

[-Gews- 7443]

Actually, I'm going to do some research. I'm studying game design at the moment in college and this would probably be a good exercise for me. I can't say this with 100% certainty, but I feel like there are ways of fixing this and that other games have already done it successfully. I'm thinking the camera would have to be coded to contextually recognize specific objects (walls, roof edges, various pieces of cover, etc.) in the game world and disallow certain player controlled camera angles based on that. 

 

Well, good luck. The way I see it, if it's floating up in the air it is always going to give a potential advantage over someone viewing from their character's head. Even just lying in the open grass, standing in a forest, driving a vehicle, etc.

[ColdAtrophy 1850]

Well, good luck. The way I see it, if it's floating up in the air it is always going to give a potential advantage over someone viewing from their character's head. Even just lying in the open grass, standing in a forest, driving a vehicle, etc.

 

I agree. Floating up in the air isn't going to work. I think the camera needs to be a little closer to the player and much lower to the ground. An over the shoulder view. 

[IAmWattsLive 5]

I'm confused how (at least according to this poll) so many people would "absolutely love" first person ONLY, yet if you look for first person servers, your lucky to find anyone in them at all...

[frosti 2165]

I'm confused how (at least according to this poll) so many people would "absolutely love" first person ONLY, yet if you look for first person servers, your lucky to find anyone in them at all...

 

That's the human nature - always go for easiest way.

 

Just like in DayZ mod, most people declared that they like 'vanilla' DayZ the best, yet most populated servers were that where you spawn with gear, 1000 helicopters, 10000 cars, extra loot etc..