How would you feel if 1st person perspective was mandatory?

[Jex 1104]

I would hate it. 1PP mode in DayZ SA is the worst implementation I have seen in a while due to 1) FoV problems (high fov = shitty view distance, low fov = instance sickness), 2) poor client performance (causing motion sickness for me, personally) and 3) the unfluid movements of the character controller/entity (feels like driving a fucking tank).

After 1PP mode is fixed more people will start playing it.

 

How is this different from any other FPS? DayZ allows you to configure it more than any other game so bullshit on that argument. Poor client performance? Once again, I'm calling bullshit unless you were playing on a shitty laptop like I was 6 months ago in which case - upgrade! I have no issues moving around in DayZ.

[Jex 1104]

You mean quit. Players quit the game. 7 Days to Die has more players currently... If this was the plan then it is totally working.

 

7 days to die is great and......

 

it's first person only.

[Jex 1104]

There's 2 server options for a reason. I hate 1st person. I get headaches from it on this game.

 

3pp all the way.

 

So you play no first person shooters then.

[hemmo 55]

motion sick, all the time i walk or run

[scriptfactory 620]

How is this different from any other FPS? DayZ allows you to configure it more than any other game so bullshit on that argument. Poor client performance? Once again, I'm calling bullshit unless you were playing on a shitty laptop like I was 6 months ago in which case - upgrade! I have no issues moving around in DayZ.

 

I get between 20 fps (city) and 60 fps (woods). The main problem is the inconsistency, I believe, because I feel, literally, sick after playing for 20 - 30 minutes. I play H1Z1 in first-person "hardcore" mode exclusively but I get a constant > 60 fps in that game... and all other games I play, including RUST.

[Arm Of Kannon 9]

Oh look, more people prefer 1pp.

 

I wasn't expecting that lol

 

On this forum?! I actually expected it to be more slanted towards 1pp. 1pp "hardcore" apple picking sim FTW.

[Jex 1104]

Wow... I must say, having read your previous posts in other threads dealing with difficulty and wanting a hard game, the fact you play in 3rd person is really surprising. It turns DayZ into

 

 

You are wrong. I play 1st person for a number of reasons.

 

1. 3rd person rewards "camping" as it is much easier to set yourself up in a location where you can be hidden and still see all around you than it is to approach those positions. (this is the PVP advantage you were mentioning)

 

2. Promotes bad firefights. There is no such thing as "covering fire" or suppression in 3rd person. They simply sit in cover and can see what is happening without exposing themselves. This leads to a very dull battle where to win all you have to do is wait until the other player decides to move. In 1st person you can't be certain your opponent isn't moving without exposing yourself but maybe he is watching that spot for you to peek.... There is risk to gaining the information you need to properly fight and you can actually fire upon a position and keep that person from watching you move. 

 

3. You can very quickly loot. Most of the time you don't have to climb all the way up a ladder or even ENTER a building to scan it since you can sweep a room through a window very easily with the wide swung camera. In first person you have to look around a bit more carefully.

 

4. Zombies are a joke. You get the periscope, but they don't. You can watch them from cover and then move when they have their backs turned. This is probably my biggest complaint as it is amazing how many time in 1st person you run into a zombie you didn't expect because you can't pre-scout an area with 3rd person. 

 

5. Immersion. Seriously. The number of times I have jumped or nearly panicked because I COULDN'T see what was over a fence or around that corner or up those stairs until I was nearly face to face with it is amazing. 1st makes me feel less like I'm playing GTA and more like I'm the one the zombie is thumping on. Gear even becomes different with 1st person. Backpacks matter as you can't easily see over your shoulder with certain ones and in 1st you have to look over your shoulder a lot. A gun Ghillie wrap can actually be detrimental as it can block vision when you lay flat or with the gun on your back and again looking over your shoulder. 

 

 

Basically 1st person just makes DayZ feel more like a Horror Survival game and less like playing a late 90s MMO or console game. 

 

THIS is the argument and no 3pp player has ever been able to counter it. Going to the point about immersion I'll tell you a story. We're looting a small town in the middle of nowhere and this was back in the Mod days. Next thing we hear a shot and our friend tells us he's down. There's 3 more of us in the town and because we were smart, we had 4 more of us in the town behind us providing overwatch.

 

What happened next was one of the most intense times I had in DayZ. We didn't know how many there were but we suspected a single sniper. We were in the town, trying to peek through gaps in the wall or exposing ourselves as little as possible. Each time I leaned out to look around the corner up into the hills, I felt like I was going to get shot in the head. This made moving around the town a fight in itself to remain unseen.

 

Our back up was essentially on the south side whilst this guy was in the north. Every now and then a shot would ring out as he tried to hit one of us but he never did. So our friends were moving up, but they couldn't move fast as none of us knew where this guy was, only his approximate location and of course, they didn't want to die either but we were stuck and pinned and we didn't want know who else might show up so time was of the essence.

 

Then the call came over that they spotted him. They had no shot and they moved up tactically and we started moving more obviously in the town to keep his attention until they were in a position to take him out, which they did. It probably took between 30-45 minutes for the encounter which was intense and a lot of fun.

 

Now take that and put in 3rd person and the story would be, "We lost a guy then sat behind rocks using the 3pp camera until we saw him and directed our guys to exact spot who took him out" Well whoopie fucking doo! You call that playing a game over my story?

[Jex 1104]

People who don't like third person just can't adapt to the advanced tactics required, then claim there are no tactics involved and that it's unfair.  I'm sure there's no strategy involved in any RTS game because they all have bird's eye views right?

 

It's about playing that extra step ahead of your opponent, given the extra information you have.  Advantages are created due to positioning, regardless of the camera.

 

But it's easier to cry and wish the game would change for you, so you don't have to.  Learn to play.

 

Yeah it's called "cheating"

[Jex 1104]

Keep 3PP but make it so you can't pan your view around and it's of a fixed frontal POV in the direction your facing, problem solved :)

 

No make it 3rd person but 3rd person of my ass!

[Jex 1104]

I get between 20 fps (city) and 60 fps (woods). The main problem is the inconsistency, I believe, because I feel, literally, sick after playing for 20 - 30 minutes. I play H1Z1 in first-person "hardcore" mode exclusively but I get a constant > 60 fps in that game... and all other games I play, including RUST.

 

So being in 3rd person helps your frame rates?

[Jex 1104]

On this forum?! I actually expected it to be more slanted towards 1pp. 1pp "hardcore" apple picking sim FTW.

 

Last year when a poll was done it was 80% in favour of 3rd PP

[gibonez 3633]

I think the topic should be banned from this forum honestly. They give temp bans for things a lot less stupid, and ban discussion on things like hacking which are a lot more productive than this.

The constant discussion on the topic merely shows how problematic the perspective is.

Banning the discussion of it would vs silly especially when it is easily the biggest flaw in the game currently.

No other thing is more detrimental to gameplay than wall peeking.

[pilgrim* 3514]

.//..

it is easily the biggest flaw in the game currently.

No other thing is more detrimental to gameplay than wall peeking.

 

Loot splosions - building and exploiting them - is the biggest flaw in the game currently

AND it is more detrimental to gameplay

Obviously

 

http://forums.dayzgame.com/index.php?/topic/225575-hidden-loots-at-the-military-base/#entry2271071

[J4G 92]

Art team made so good job that even thinking about removing 3pp is defamation.

In firefights 1pp is more fun.

When running alone in woods or building camp 3pp is much better.

[ZomboWTF 527]

So being in 3rd person helps your frame rates?

no, but being further from the ground (3pp camera) makes the terrain move slower past you, also you have a stabilized view, no bobbing at all, and the weapon or whatever is in your hands doesn't move besides your face

 

all of these factors paired with bad framerates make 1pp headache inducing, or even sickness

 

go into a nightclub where they have stroboskop light, and try running around really fast, thats pretty much the same effect

Edited June 3, 2015 by Zombo

[ZomboWTF 527]

The constant discussion on the topic merely shows how problematic the perspective is.

Banning the discussion of it would vs silly especially when it is easily the biggest flaw in the game currently.

No other thing is more detrimental to gameplay than wall peeking.

there would be the option of only rendering characters when they are visible for your character, WoT has an interesting approach to this, though it would never ever work for dayz and would eat away at the server performance like a vampire (raycasting is damn expensive)

 

it's okay how it is now, i just wished there would be more people on the first person servers

[p4triot 207]

there would be the option of only rendering characters when they are visible for your character, WoT has an interesting approach to this, though it would never ever work for dayz and would eat away at the server performance like a vampire (raycasting is damn expensive)

 

it's okay how it is now, i just wished there would be more people on the first person servers

 

wouldn't eat server performance at all. That would only be doable client side and wont even affect frames per second. Actually, if it did would be to improve them. This semester I been working with OpenGL and doing some graphics engine for noobs and Im astounded at the bast amount of calculations and matrix multiplications behind a single frame for 3d model rendering, iluminations, shaders and all that. It was a pain in the ass to finish my project, for real u.u

 

But one thing I now know for sure: adding the calculations to know if you have to render some player or not isnt even 0.01% of the total operations (just a matter of Z-Buffer from another perspective -eyes- instead of the OBS position -camera-, for those who understand), and if the engine decides the player shouldn't be rendered, this would save some resources and add to performance (also, not much noticeable, unless we're talking about 10+  players at once).

 

However, Day Z developers seems allergic to change the game engine, otherwise most of the core problems of this game, and much more important than 1pp/3pp dilema, would be fixed by now.

Edited June 3, 2015 by p4triot

[ZomboWTF 527]

wouldn't eat server performance at all. That would only be doable client side and wont even affect frames per second. Actually, if it did would be to improve them. This semester I been working with OpenGL and doing some graphics engine for noobs and Im astounded at the bast amount of calculations and matrix multiplications behind a single frame for 3d model rendering, iluminations, shaders and all that. It was a pain in the ass to finish my project, for real u.u

 

But one thing I now know for sure: adding the calculations to know if you have to render some player or not isnt even 0.01% of the total operations (just a matter of Z-Buffer from another perspective -eyes- instead of the OBS position -camera-, for those who understand), and if the engine decides the player shouldn't be rendered, this would save some resources and add to performance (also, not much noticeable, unless we're talking about 10+  players at once).

 

However, Day Z developers seems allergic to change the game engine, otherwise most of the core problems of this game, and much more important than 1pp/3pp dilema, would be fixed by now.

okay, i trust you on that matter, i am wondering why then all the houses of a city are drawn at the same time, always in DayZ... i think that is what brings the frames down so much

 

you clearly get more fps indoors, since some stuff outside isn't rendered (very easy to see when looking at something far away from a window, trees are not rendered past a few hundred meters)

why oh why does the engine not do this while outside?

 

thanks for the insight on rendering btw :)

[UKA Harrysoon 67]

Loot splosions - building and exploiting them - is the biggest flaw in the game currently

AND it is more detrimental to gameplay

Obviously

 

http://forums.dayzgame.com/index.php?/topic/225575-hidden-loots-at-the-military-base/#entry2271071

 

But a decent private server with admins who wipe loot frequently can prevent that.

Edited June 3, 2015 by Euphobia

[Cheapsh0t247 1]

poorly written poll choices, leans to 1st person imo, both server types exist, user numbers show gen pref not a poll

[pilgrim* 3514]

But a decent private server with admins who wipe loot frequently can prevent that.

 

 

    ??  explanation ??

Edited June 3, 2015 by pilgrim

[xalienax 621]

there was a time when this issue mattered to me. Then I seen the attitudes on both sides of the argument. not an attitude of finding the best solution that lets everyone play the same game on the same terms but instead its all either '3pp players are cheaters' or '1pp players are elitist try-hards'. shame. it's the sort of behavior i have come to expect, but shame. the Right thing to do would to have been to take a well liked feature of the mod (the ability to see ones character/area) and WORK ON IT, so that it can't be easily exploited in combat. Instead the community is devided into to separate shards and the game isn't even done yet.

 

When the game is done, if it has solid core play, reliable mechanics and persistence that works *reliably* i don't freaking care. at all. I'll play where my friends play rather its 1pp or 3pp regardless of if 'peeking' is ever fixed or not. the whining and elitism is worse then peeking. the dividing of the community still worse then that. But hey what ever. lets cop-out and re-hash the same argument over and over again instead of demanding a single branch for all players with a workable solution to the camera's exploitable nature.

[rscl 11]

When I saw that topic, I specially to speak my opinion registered on forum - HELL YEAH for 1st person only!

 

3rd person is in all possible ways just bad.

1st person gives bigger immersion, disabling problem with camera exploiting - therefore having huge imact on gameplay, ppl are actually moving to flank, interact, see something, not just being on the floor behind cover and camping for era of time.

Players used to 3rd person will quickly get used to 1st person only IMO.

[p4triot 207]

okay, i trust you on that matter, i am wondering why then all the houses of a city are drawn at the same time, always in DayZ... i think that is what brings the frames down so much

 

you clearly get more fps indoors, since some stuff outside isn't rendered (very easy to see when looking at something far away from a window, trees are not rendered past a few hundred meters)

why oh why does the engine not do this while outside?

 

thanks for the insight on rendering btw :)

Well, thats the point of the renderer. The engine sends a ray from the camera position to each direction with a precision of a pixel, the ray lands on something (wall, player, object, floor, the sky...) and the engine loads the color of that object, this also mean loading all the vertexs of the 3d model to memory (thousands of vertexs for a single player), eating resources. If you're outside watching a town the engine has to load hundreds of thousands of vertexs plus textures, shaders, and do all the calculations with all that in mind. If you are inside a house... well not so much, since most of your rays will land on a wall and theres a lot less of work to do.

 

The trick to not show the player is the same, send the rays from the eye of the player instead of the current camera. If the player is "touched" with some of those rays, render the player, if not, don't.

Edited June 3, 2015 by p4triot

[snipertrifle 23]

Reasons I play 3PP and not 1PP:

 

All my friends play 3PP

Easier to play with people in 3PP

I like looking at a character I've spent hours gearing up

Easier to tell when I am leaning/crouching

1PP feels clunky, keep walking into stuff

Very little high-pop 1PP servers 

1PP gives me headaches after a while

I don't see looking over walls in 3PP as much of a problem tbh.

The whole peripheral vision thing (so 3PP gives you a more accurate angle to look at)

Literally no frames in 1PP

3PP just generally feels better.

I don't feel more imersed in 1PP. This argument is just BS for a lot of people.

I tried 1PP, didn't like it. And if you don't like 3PP, only play on hardcore servers. People who don't play 1PP (which is literally 90% of the community) don't tell you guys to only use 3PP servers, so please respect that.

No reason to switch! Why should I and many others be forced to play 1PP when its only a minority who want this? Why can't we just play the way we want to, without self-entitled idiots telling us the way we play is wrong and even 'cheating'!

 

Also, please note everyone has the disadvantage/advantage looking over walls. I'm not sure how many times it has got me killed but it's also got me kills and saved my life. You can also look over walls and look behind you (which you can barely do in 1PP). There is still a lot of strategy in 3PP, it is not all just camping Elektro hospital.

Edited June 3, 2015 by snipertrifle