Exp Update: 0.55.126884 Discussion

[BleedoutBill 1636]

And this is exactly why I am a MASSIVELY HUGE fan of some thing some people hate and that thing is the random noise bug especially at night.  In our real lives we think we hear things all the time and in game it should not be any different.  It makes you take a second to think "did that soda really pop or is it just in my head?"  When I the random zed agro noise I always look behind me and wonder if I really heard it, is a zed after me or is someone flanking or following me and aggroed a zed instead or was that just in my head.  Talk about creepy and paranoia.  I love it, I am in my own scary movie, except I NEVER go look!

People get paranoid and imagine that they hear things, especially when it is quiet. I like this idea, but I disagree that loud clanging and soda cans are the best way to accomplish the desired effect. I think there are ways to ramp up the paranoia level, without making everyone think that the game has a bug ... which it currently does.

 

One way would be to have more chickens in the rural areas. They would have a normal. relaxed behavior and a startled behavior, where they make lots of noise (flapping and squawking and so forth). If I heard a startled chicken nearby, I would be desperate to determine if someone startled the chicken, or if the damn thing was just screwing with me.

 

FC4 has a mechanic where four, or five birds hide in the grass. If you come to close, they take flight with ample flapping noises. The first few times you hear it it scares the hell out of you. In the big scheme of things, it would be easy to implement and the noise could also be played randomly, in order to mess with your brain. Did someone just scare the birds, or are they just moving on to go do bird things?

 

Other, appropriate noises could also be played, like footsteps, or twigs snapping (in the wooded areas), or breathing.

 

I am a fan of more ambient noises. In addition to the birds singing, we should also have crickets chirping and frogs croaking ... especially at night. We definitely need an owl at night, too!. Anyway, how scary would it be if everything suddenly went quiet? I think I'd be on the edge of my seat, in a virtual panic!

[Jonoats 27]

Don't really wanna post on this subject... but.  If us as people allegedly do hear things all the time, then why not let us hear things and not actually put the audio in the game.  If the audio for a pop cracking open plays, I don't think I hear it, I do hear it.  You guys would have us playing some weird inception style simulation game, where we are simulating a simulation of our character.

[rodneyr 7]

Bill, you hit the nail on the head for me . Big plus on the suddenly silent when appropriate ambience is in - love it.

[barnabus 1708]

Don't really wanna post on this subject... but.  If us as people allegedly do hear things all the time, then why not let us hear things and not actually put the audio in the game.  If the audio for a pop cracking open plays, I don't think I hear it, I do hear it.  You guys would have us playing some weird inception style simulation game, where we are simulating a simulation of our character.

If there is no one there actually opening a can of soda, then just what is it you think you are hearing?  Do you get that?  Would you have us believe that everything you hear is really what you hear?

[barnabus 1708]

So how can we provide data if we get constant game crashes? Seems like 2 patches in a row that's filled with bugs= unacceptable!

Are you reporting your crashes here http://feedback.dayzgame.com/my_view_page.php ?  That would be providing data, would it not?

[chambersenator 106]

Clothes should never effect visibility

 

 

I wonder if the person meant things like ghillie suits or camouflage clothing?

 

 

I hope so, as leviski's comment is baffling without more context.

 

To explain:

 

The infected citizens of Chernarus see things in the same way as any human, only that their sight appears to be impaired to varying degrees. That means there are three primary ways they can visually detect, track, and identify objects - Color, Movement, and Shape Recognition, all of those affected by Focus Ability. All four of those can - and should - be part of the zombie AI 'visual detection' section, and vary in quality depending on the already planned zed "types" - (old, fresh, strong, etc).

 

Here's how I could see visual-only detection working in the finished version(s) of DayZ SA and how zed's changing and degrading physiology might affect them.

The infection has affected both their bodies and brains, and therefore (this rough outline - I expect no real similarity to existing or future code, but I think you;ll see what I mean):

 

Color - Some zeds might see color normally, while others may have a hard time seeing certain colors, while others may have lost almost all color detection and see the world in more of a grayscale manner. Perhaps the decline in vision follows the same pattern in all infected humans and progressively gets worse over time.

Countermeasure - avoiding bright, shiny, or colors that contrast strongly with the background. A zed should, like anyone else in most situations, have a harder time seeing a guy with a green raincoat and green jeans than a guy with a bright yellow raincoat, bright orange backpack. 

 

Movement - Already implemented to a degree, and also the most obvious method of detection. Modifiers to this would be both distance and the ability of the zed to Focus (explained below).

Countermeasure - Seems silly to mention, but move slow to reduce the chance.

 

Shape Recognition - Zeds still know what living humans and animals look like and can tell the difference (when not bugged, of course) between a living human or animal and a scarecrow, a pumpkin on the ground, a dead human, another zed (at least before attacking somone), statues, and pictures of people on billboards. Put aside the "of course, why would you code that? That's mostly wasted processing resources." question for a moment, and consider what that says about how zeds should behave in an ideal, finished state.

Countermeasure - A ghillie suit, of course, is the first thing that pops into most people's minds, and it makes sense. However, this is where the Line of Sight system really can be expanded upon.

Picture this scenario- I'm in a town walking down the middle of the street, and aggro a zed 20m away. I immediately run through a building to a grassy backyard, and spot some bushes 10m to my right, so I duck behind those bushes. Luckily, I'm only wearing a green raincoat, black jeans, and wearing running shoes. The zed say me run into the building - LOS is broken, but even the existing AI knows to follow where I went and begin the 'search' stage. Maybe it might have been close enough to hear my footsteps inside the building, but since I'm not wearing heavy boots, I'm probably under the threshold for making detectable sounds after I exit the building. The zed runs through the house to the other side, and without any more info, searches around. The bushes should give me almost perfect concealment - I have no bright contrasting colors, I'm not moving, and the bushes are probably better than a ghillie - I only have to worry about sound, as scent detection is not a priority for the foreseeable future.

 

Focus Ability - degrading bodies mean degrading eyesight, and that means an overall decline in range of detection that gets progressively worse, both as zombies 'age' and the state of the human before getting infected. I would think that as vision gets more blurry, the first to decline is Shape Recognition, followed by Color, and finally Movement with ever-decreasing range. A mid-stage zed would find it harder to tell if something is a tall bush or a unmoving human at 100m, but it might still be pretty good at seeing a high-contrast blob of color moving across a street or a field, though at that distance it might be really hard to pick up on a slow moving, crouched survivor wearing colors that don't contrast as much with the background. Under 40m-50m, it could see just as good as a fresh zed.

Countermeasure - Try to figure out what kind of zed is after you, and exploit any possible weaknesses 

 

So how can all this translate into a system that doesn't generate an insane amount of processing? As I don't know exactly how it is coded right now, they way I would try to do it is with 4 sets of reference values, and only 2 for actual calculations to determine if the player is detected once LOS is present, and recalculated if LOS is broken and the zed moves to the last known position and the zed's 'aggro search mode' begins to try an re-aquire the player.

 

First, a player's clothing and exterior equipment is added up and given a 'base visibility value' based on Color and Shape Recognition qualities. The different types of zeds each have an overall 'Focus value' that sets their maximum detection ranges. A player's movement, obviously, alters their 'base visibility value'. Using the environment for concealment, such as hiding behind a bush, can be calculated by using a modified version of the already existing code that tells the client you're close enough to pick berries or chop kindling, where it would decrease the 'base visibility value' - more/larger bushes in close proximity enhances the modifier, for example.

 

What it all comes down to is adding/enhancing two modifiers to the LOS calculation only during the detection stage - one for the 'see-er' and one for the 'person being seen'. It should only have to kick in when LOS begins or when LOS is broken and the zed arrives at its best guess as to where you are, and does not require more of an active calculation while the zed is aggro'd. For all other times, the existing LOS system is fine and is progressively improving.

 

The devs are clever fellows - I'm know something like this has been considered before and even tried in multiple ways over the years, or even already in there for the most part. Who knows, maybe just framing it in this particular way sparks an idea for a method far better than this. I just couldn't understand the idea that "Clothes should never affect visibility"

Edited March 14, 2015 by Chambersenator

[rodneyr 7]

 

Damnyourdeadman , on 18 Mar 2014 - 9:03 PM said

 

Turns out that the DayZ zombies are indeed infected alive people.

Many thanks to AntonioAJC for providing me the link with the information.

The source is from Reddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/dayz/comments/1zbsks/psa_the_zombies_arent_dead_theyre_infected_living/cfsdipd

 

This is taken from the stringtable.xml file found in the the dayz_code folder of older versions of the mod.(got it from version 1.7.2.3)

its basically just an unused intro,

DEAN HALL PRESENTS

A USECFORCE PRODUCTION

 

On 12 March 2013, a prion disease and spreads among the worlds population triggering a global pandemic The disease causes proteins in the brain to be replaced with prions ceasing regular function Most people progress to dementia and then death as the brain is replaced with ineffective sludge 86% of the worlds population die Some survive with the disease in a chronic state. Lacking regular brain function, they are scarely human. They are unable to communicate, driven by insatiable desire for violence, and attracted to the scent of those uninfected Society crumbles as the pandemic spreads rapidly

You are one of the 2% who are not infected yet

THIS IS YOUR STORY

 

So there you have it.Rocket's vision on the infected.

This is the closest to an official(not at all) expo of the infection I found in the forums.  Has there been anymore explanation of the infection? I know neither vision or smell make any reality-based sense with serious disruption of circulatory or nervous system/brain function, but I am more in favor of scent. Of course, then you need a good wind system that allows the player to be clearly aware of wind direction and speed.

As for sight loss, I can speak to loss of function due to cataracts. The breakdown was not as clearly defined as you wish it, but the 1st thing was everything got fuzzier. I could see colors fine in good light, but as light got dimmer color perception definitely went before shape perception. Now if the infection predisposes humans to clotting then a clot could effectively blind immediately, but could also spontaneously dissolve at some point. Obviously, I could dig up data to rationalize the way I personally would like many algorithms to function in this engrossing and wonderful game with no real anchor in our reality. Without much clearer biological backstory with regard to infection, it's all personal preference and unfounded assumptions on our part. You already know I'm for scent. Whatever happens I feel like dayz will be much fun.

 

edit: forgot to mention even different types of cataract cause vision loss to progress differently - so huge variations in ways all the different dysfunctions/infections can cause us to lose vision

Edited March 14, 2015 by hotrod

[eugenharton 1540]

The number of servers are low over the weekend, were moving to new hardware. 

[igor-vk 909]

Again? Does this means servers will be more stable?

[freethink 984]

Any time you spawn at Vybor that will be the case; spawning there in the first place is unintended though. It's the game's way of saying, "Oops, we don't know where to put you, so we'll put you over here."

 

Somehow, in 900+ hours of playing, I have never had this happen to me even once. I must be very lucky.

 

If you are a freshspawn and try join the server before it's properly restarted there's a good chance of getting the vybor spawn. Last night a pal of mine was killed, respawned in novo, played for a minute or two before the server stopped then deliberately joined before the server had properly restarted and got the vybor spawn. He died naked at veresnik military base. RIP

 

---------------

 

Back on topic, I only got to play for 30 mins before dayz went into a total death spiral of crashing every couple of minutes but it's already clear the new zombie ai is a game changer. I hate the aggro from 1k away currently in stable.

Edited March 14, 2015 by freethink

[ChainReactor 922]

If you are a freshspawn and try join the server before it's properly restarted there's a good chance of getting the vybor spawn. Last night a pal of mine was killed, respawned in novo, played for a minute or two before the server stopped then deliberately joined before the server had properly restarted and got the vybor spawn. He died naked at veresnik military base. RIP

 

Whenever I get a Vybor spawn, I never find any pants. It looks so ridiculous to run around with high-cap, ballistic helmet, decked out AKM but no f*n pants....

[Surviv0r1969 151]

experimental would work for me, installed it , verified files, only showed 0.54 servers and no exp ones. experimental has worked for me before just not this time  :blush:

[LordBlackwolf 656]

Whenever I get a Vybor spawn, I never find any pants. It looks so ridiculous to run around with high-cap, ballistic helmet, decked out AKM but no f*n pants....

 

Search vehicles if you haven't been whenever you spawn in vybor as I got lucky and found a pair of pants and boots in a car near the school.

[LordBlackwolf 656]

experimental would work for me, installed it , verified files, only showed 0.54 servers and no exp ones. experimental has worked for me before just not this time  :blush:

Read 4 posts above yours about the servers. Unless the one I saw before I went back to stable stopped working there was only 1 us server working. I'm not sure if

servers from other countries are still up or not though.

[raptori 13]

eugen, what is the tickrate in dayz ? , in BF4 it was 10Hz then it's improved to 30Hz and the increase in performance was very good , even the 10Hz was good.

Edited March 14, 2015 by Raptor_i81

[jubeidok 495]

OK, this could have just been coincidence, but maybe not since Eugen has stated that the crash is related to the new AI. If you want the servers to stay up longer, always make sure to activate/alert zombies before you kill them. I tried sneaking up on one for stealth kill and smashed it's head with a pickax, it then turned around and played a reaching out animation that I hadn't seen yet. It could not hit me and I couldn't hit it anymore and within seconds the server went down. Did my actions cause it? It sure felt like it.

 

[Edit] Based on where I logged in, I'm gonna have to say it was just a coincidence. Sorry, move along now.

Edited March 14, 2015 by JubeiDOK

[JiJi (DayZ) 223]

eugen, what is the tickrate in dayz ? , in BF4 it was 10Hz then it's improved to 30Hz and the increase in performance was very good , even the 10Hz was good.

 

I guess 10Hz , 15Hz (?)

anyway I would not surprise me if tick rate tied to server CPU usage (overload -> downclock). It's an interesting thing to discuss, but probably not appropriate in this Exp 0.55 topic

Edited March 14, 2015 by JiJi

[zap44 40]

The number of servers are low over the weekend, were moving to new hardware.

When testing .54 I wondered if some of the problems weren't hardware related. Some servers located near me I experienced lots of rubber banding while a server half a world away was fairly stable. Just didn't make sense it was the game.

[BleedoutBill 1636]

So how can we provide data if we get constant game crashes? Seems like 2 patches in a row that's filled with bugs= unacceptable!

As Tatanko said, simply by logging onto a server, we are providing valuable data.

 

 

If you don't believe him, perhaps you'll believe Eugen:

 

http://twitter.com/eugenharton/status/576323966287118336

Edited March 14, 2015 by BleedoutBill

[BleedoutBill 1636]

The number of servers are low over the weekend, were moving to new hardware. 

There ya go!

 

Give us some big, manly servers to play on!!!

[hekp 223]

 

Somehow, in 900+ hours of playing, I have never had this happen to me even once. I must be very lucky.

 My condolences :)

 

The other creepy thing was the doors opening and closing all by themselves. It really boosted the paranoia level up to 11.

This got me thinking, once we get advanced weather, I really hope for things like draft being able to shut the door behind you.

 

The number of servers are low over the weekend, were moving to new hardware.

Is this purely because of the latest zombie patch & related issues or is it just a long before planned hardware that finally arrived; If that's the case, i take it you will be able to set up more servers and gather up more data?

 

I understand this patch is all about the Z, but since you mentioned it, Im wondering, if(or when in development) we can expect another pop. limit per server increase? I remember there was a couple of 100pop servers a few months ago(sMoss' maybe?), where you quite successfully gathered some data and even sent some scripters to deserved vacations.

Edited March 14, 2015 by halp

[Dudester100 448]

Will the next experimental update be coming today? or tomorrow?

[jinxlin 0]

Hey,

developer team of DayZ i want to ask you some questions.

First will you add Namalask and bloodsuckers becouse going to namalask was my favorite adventure for a quest forfinding bloodsucker.

and will you add bikes and all other vechiles afteryou fix some of the common bugs which bother many players in dayz.

I would love if you add more weapons and equipment like in arma 2 mod, and please oh please make such system if you kill 10 or more people you get a bandit skin so others could see that you are a bandit and take hostile actions kuz i can't identify if its a bandit ot a hero.

And thank you soo much for such an awesome game :thumbsup: :lol: :beans:

[Tatanko 5591]

Will the next experimental update be coming today? or tomorrow?

Probably Monday.

[BleedoutBill 1636]

Hey,

 

First will you add Namalask and bloodsuckers becouse going to namalask was my favorite adventure for a quest forfinding bloodsucker.

And thank you soo much for such an awesome game :thumbsup: :lol: :beans:

The devs have made the commitment to ensure that the game is mod friendly, but they don't intend to oficially support alternate maps. That is a task for the mod community, after the game launches.

 

And yes, there is a lot more equipment and weapons in the pipeline.