Why is Bohema so bad when it comes to AMD?

[john5220 15]

i always wondered this. I know there are a handful of companies like Blizzard who are pretty bias towards AMD.

 

But in Bohema's case its really really bad. For example both the DayZ mod and SA runs at 12 FPS on my R9 280 video card with 4GHZ Quad core AMD CPU

 

Their games are so good, its such a shame they insist on favoring intel over AMD. People on the net claim that intel pays them to purposely make AMD suck on Arma engines but I dunno its hearsay there is no proof it it, but it sure seems suspect.

 

I played games for many years on the PC and I have never ever seen a bad company like Bohema when it comes to insanely horrid optimizations for AMD

 

People say AMD chips are bad but this isn't true. I can get flawless 60 FPS in Battlefield 3 and 4 with my system and that Engine is insanely high tech compared to Arma.

 

its such a shame because of how good their games are. The bias towards AMD really killed it if you ask me. I even bought a SSD for DayZ but nothing ever works, infact the MOD is worse

 

EDIT UPDATE

 

I forgot to mention the 12 FPS I get is the minimum and is hardly seen. Most of the time I get 22 FPS in Cities but can dip to 15 FPS. Near the coast when I look at the sky I get 100 FPS

Edited January 2, 2015 by John5220

[therandomredstone 432]

i always wondered this. I know there are a handful of companies like Blizzard who are pretty bias towards AMD.

 

But in Bohema's case its really really bad. For example both the DayZ mod and SA runs at 12 FPS on my R9 280 video card with 4GHZ Quad core AMD CPU

 

Their games are so good, its such a shame they insist on favoring intel over AMD. People on the net claim that intel pays them to purposely make AMD suck on Arma engines but I dunno its hearsay there is no proof it it, but it sure seems suspect.

 

I played games for many years on the PC and I have never ever seen a bad company like Bohema when it comes to insanely horrid optimizations for AMD

 

People say AMD chips are bad but this isn't true. I can get flawless 60 FPS in Battlefield 3 and 4 with my system and that Engine is insanely high tech compared to Arma.

 

its such a shame because of how good their games are. The bias towards AMD really killed it if you ask me. I even bought a SSD for DayZ but nothing ever works, infact the MOD is worse

I feel you. But if you really want to play DayZ and you say that "its such a shame" if you truly feel that way and you think that because of "how good their games are" then just buy a new computer.

[Grimey Rick 3417]

inb4 "but teh map is so big and teh rend4r distints is so far away!!1!"

 

lol

[john5220 15]

I guess I will have to invest in intel. So sad I just built this AMD its a brand new system man.....

 

They lied about quad core requirements. This game does not actually support quad core infact not even Arma 3 supports it, and when I say it don't support it I mean that the extra performance from 2 more cores is so terrible that a higher clocked dual core will be even better

[Cap'n (DayZ) 1827]

inb4 "but teh map is so big and teh rend4r distints is so far away!!1!"

 

lol

 

That is part of it. Compare Utes on ArmA 2 and Chernarus, both on max settings.

 

But most of it is caused by the old rendering engine and the massive amount of stuff going on.

[soulfirez 901]

Yeah I hate how bohemia is screwing us AMD users. 

But there not intentionally screwing AMD users, the game isnt optimized for intel its just not optmized at all!! When i monitor the game for me ( some people report it using 2 cores i keep asking them to post pics of there monitoring software screens because i think its still actually 1 with the background functions running on second core, strangely they never post the pics) its using a single core, on a game thats very heavy CPU dependant.

 

I know you dont want to hear it but intel for single core performance is light years infront of amd . So its a case of nothing is optimized so your going to get better results on the chip that can brute force it which sadly is intel..

 

Edit but hey they are trying to do a PS4 port so if they are to succeed there going to have to multithread the crap out of it to take advantage of the many small cores of the PS4's AMD chip...

Edited January 1, 2015 by SoulFirez

[fluxley 2228]

Any talk of Bohemia purposely favouring Intel over AMD is just nonsense.

 

Intel chips have much better IPC (instructions per clock) This means on benchmark tests of just one single thread Intel will beat AMD.

 

AMD chips are only good if the software running on them utilises multiple threads well.

 

Bohemia's RV3 engine is simply outdated and doesn't handle multiple threads well. Bohemia are not such a big company and they certainly didn't have so much money to invest back in 2009 when they updated the engine to have basic multithread functionality.

 

The good news is they are working on updating it right now with DayZ's Enfusion engine (well probably not right now, most likely a bit hung over right now, Happy new year!)

 

I really do think that by the time they are finished we should see some big improvements as far as cpu usage goes. if they expect the game to run on PS4 with just 8x1.6ghz cores then they kinda have no choice but to improve things dramatically.

 

By the way, i have an AMD fx 6300 @4.4ghz, and AMD R280x, i rarely go below 25 fps in the big cities, read some guides, take the time to try different settings, don't play on laggy overpopulated servers, you should be getting better than 12fps.

Edited January 1, 2015 by Fluxley

[aussiebobby 82]

But there not intentionally screwing AMD users, the game isnt optimized for intel its just not optmized at all!! When i monitor the game for me ( some people report it using 2 cores i keep asking them to post pics of there monitoring software screens because i think its still actually 1 with the background functions running on second core, strangely they never post the pics) its using a single core, on a game thats very heavy CPU dependant.

 

I know you dont want to hear it but intel for single core performance is light years infront of amd . So its a case of nothing is optimized so your going to get better results on the chip that can brute force it which sadly is intel..

 

Edit but hey they are trying to do a PS4 port so if they are to succeed there going to have to multithread the crap out of it to take advantage of the many small cores of the PS4's AMD chip...

Fx 8350.r9 290

40mins mp(breaking Point) 65 players

Core usage

0)31.8

1)35.7

2)6.3

3)1.1

4)25.3

5)37.3

6)3.7

7)0.4

average 40.9

As you can see 4 cores are doing nothing

 

 

After disabling the unused cores

Average cpu usage/Altis benchmark

1)52.8

2)28.9

3)36.8

4)28.2

Max cpu/thread usage Average 49.3

I also got an extra 6fps in Altis benchmark.

1 hour of mp (Breaking point)80+ players

0)59.8

1)48

2)42.4

3)59.3

Cpu/thread usage average,59.0

 

I'll do DayZ cpu/thread usage  later,but I don't expect any different from Arma 3

Edited January 1, 2015 by AussieBobby

[treetop82 59]

I won't troll you like the rest of this teenage forum, however..

 

My brother in law works for Radeon and makes the cards, he presented to me a couple good points. First, Radeon are the ones that actually optimize their drivers to work with many games. The developers of games usually hand them a pile of shit and say "make your cards work better with our game". AMD must work on profiles for each game to stop people from blaming them for a making a shitty GPU. Second, the game itself is in alpha and the team hasn't really optimized the game. Your video card is working hard drawing the insides (and shadows) of multiple buildings that aren't even in sight or meaningful to gameplay. It's a terrible inefficiency that I hope they will correct. Finally, the game actually doesn't push the GPUs to their max performance. I have 3x 7970s and only hit 25% usage on each, I am not bottlenecking the CPU either. The game doesn't know how to ASK the GPUs for the proper amount of power/performance.

 

It's a mess that I hope they correct.

 

WWIIOnline had a similar problem with drawing too many useless objects, they sort of corrected the issue but not totally. It would make your brand new system look like a IBM 386. Pretty sad but it all falls back on proper development and graphics logic.

[soulfirez 901]

Fx 8350.r9 290

40mins mp(breaking Point) 65 players

Core usage

0)31.8

1)35.7

2)6.3

3)1.1

4)25.3

5)37.3

6)3.7

7)0.4

average 40.9

As you can see 4 cores are doing nothing

 

 

After disabling the unused cores

Average cpu usage/Altis benchmark

1)52.8

2)28.9

3)36.8

4)28.2

Max cpu/thread usage Average 49.3

I also got an extra 6fps in Altis benchmark.

1 hour of mp (Breaking point)80+ players

0)59.8

1)48

2)42.4

3)59.3

Cpu/thread usage average,59.0

 

I'll do DayZ cpu/thread usage  later,but I don't expect any different from Arma 3

interesting you believe it to be running on 4 cores ( can i get some actual pics or video of your monitoring in action ( also what are you using to monitor )

 

im interested to see your Dayz results ( i also play arma 2 and 3 ,hell every now and then i still load up operation flashpoint) also what are your FPS results with this cpu usuage i ask because with dayz i turn hyperthreading off and it is running 1 core at 35%-50%(a second core runs at nominal levels to run background functions of pc) on an I74790k clocked to 5.1 ghz and i range from 50 fps in novo to 170 fps in the open at near max settings( i turn Post processing to very low as i dont like many of there effects ) on a 3440 x1440 ( so 1440p ultra wide screen with a second 1080p screen running monitoring)

 

Thats using SLi 970s ( recently swapped from a titan black) but i only lose 5 fps when i swap out the 970s with a single 770 from my wifes pc as it really doesnt push GPUs to hard ( although the 770 was reporting 90%+ usuage while checking on afterburner so it seemed to be utilizing it very effectively for a game that hasnt had client side optimization.

Edited January 1, 2015 by SoulFirez

[aussiebobby 82]

Software Afterburner, Rivatuner, HWiNFO64.

I used the HWiNFO64  to display the cores on the OSD(RTSS) tab and I can reset the values(Cpu/thread usage average) and start playing or while in-game and just write down the average cpu/thread usage over the playing time.I just couldn't be bothered up loading pics or youtube videos.

How to do it if you dont know

[Jfiles 439]

Yeah I hate how bohemia is screwing us AMD users. 

ya :(

[AlphaDogMeat . 493]

 

It's not for poor people.

[ChainReactor 922]

Intel actively stepped towards the devs at a very early stage in development to help integrating their architecture into the game. So it's not really Bohemias fault. Also, most Intel chips have a better single core performance compared to their AMD equivalents, which is what the game needs right now.

 

 

They lied about quad core requirements.

 

They didn't. Noone said you would need a quad core. The system requirements recommend an i5-2300, which does not mean you'll need all it's features ( i.e. 4 cores ) but a performance comparable to it.

[boneboys 7988]

Another dead horse to flog we have here.
BI Dev quotes (not DayZ Dev)taken from a good while ago concerning Day Mod = DayZ SA...

(He) Everybody should know that Arma 2 is hardcoded to prefer Intel processors. The game prioritizes only 1-2 cores at a time, and it prefers hyperthreading.

(BIDev) nonsense, Intel simply has much stronger IPC (instruction per clock)
in fact , our games hate HyperThreading ... (suggested is off if troubles arise)
in short, one core running the primary thread of game needs to have highest possible IPC possible.
**************************************
as explained earlier, the engine is multithreaded since 2009,

but it's not just about taking the code and spreading it across gazilion threads ...
(hint thread safety, syncing, min. seq. time etc.)
here i agree it's not threaded enough for modern CPUs but in time of it's release it wasn't issue, for Arma 3 / DayZ that's different story
**************************************
also trying compare A2/OA, A3 and DayZ standalone is non-sense
different network/server architectures, rendering frameworks and aims ...

***************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************

So if you want better performance invest in Intel.

Also I have OC'ed my 2500k from a measly 3.1 to 4.2 and the performance has increased relative to %

*******************************************

 

Yeah I hate how bohemia is screwing us AMD users. 

 

 

2) Flaming:
Any material which constitutes defamation, harassment, or abuse is strictly prohibited, this includes the Personal Message Service.
Use common sense while posting. Non-constructive comments are included.

 

 

For example both the DayZ mod and SA runs at 12 FPS on my R9 280 video card with 4GHZ Quad core AMD CPU

 

Something is desperately wrong on your side.

[aussiebobby 82]

So if you want better performance invest in Intel.

 

 

Or play any other game.

[beansy 41]

OP, you got it all wrong son, the question you should have asked is Why is AMD so bad when it comes to Bohemia? It's 2nd rate hardware lol, can't cope with Bohemias games is why, get smart, get Intel.

Edited January 1, 2015 by Beansy™

[aussiebobby 82]

Another poster^ that can be safely ignored

[rickyriot 1009]

But there not intentionally screwing AMD users, the game isnt optimized for intel its just not optmized at all!! When i monitor the game for me ( some people report it using 2 cores i keep asking them to post pics of there monitoring software screens because i think its still actually 1 with the background functions running on second core, strangely they never post the pics) its using a single core, on a game thats very heavy CPU dependant.

 

I think you'll find the sort of evidence you need is in the screenshot I posted for suggestions thread:

 

http://forums.dayzgame.com/index.php?/topic/217861-blindness-for-using-optics-directly-at-the-sun/

[rickyriot 1009]

Anyone who goes straight to the "Don't buy AMD" option in these discussions is a bit daft.

 

Yes, Intel is the better performer, but also yes it is considerably more expensive. Ultimately my 8320 can run AAA titles because these games are optimised, DayZ is not and even those using an Intel chip suffer frame rate issues. The game is alpha, there are changes to the rendering coming and there are known legacy issues. Now is not the time to start a chip war, it's about hoping the devs get the time and resources to properly update then optimise the relevant areas in order that both AMD and Intel run the game well.

[soulfirez 901]

I think you'll find the sort of evidence you need is in the screenshot I posted for suggestions thread:

 

http://forums.dayzgame.com/index.php?/topic/217861-blindness-for-using-optics-directly-at-the-sun/

beans hmm i wonder why its only hitting one core for me ( i even turn off hyperthreading at the advice of dresdan on of the devs at BI not a dayz dev though ) hmm i cant complain with my results but it i guess ill try messing with it see if i can get it to fire on more cores.

[rickyriot 1009]

So if you want better performance invest in Intel.

While not technically wrong, the analogy is similar to saying if you want faster speeds in your car, remove the seats. Yes, it would increase the speed, but it's not the answer.

The answer is that the game has the rendering engine addressed then the game as a whole is optimised (both client and server).

Something is desperately wrong on your side.

However this I do agree with. Although the more the OP posts, the more I question whether they are entirely genuine.

[soulfirez 901]

Anyone who goes straight to the "Don't buy AMD" option in these discussions is a bit daft.

 

Yes, Intel is the better performer, but also yes it is considerably more expensive. Ultimately my 8320 can run AAA titles because these games are optimised, DayZ is not and even those using an Intel chip suffer frame rate issues. The game is alpha, there are changes to the rendering coming and there are known legacy issues. Now is not the time to start a chip war, it's about hoping the devs get the time and resources to properly update then optimise the relevant areas in order that both AMD and Intel run the game well.

I built my wifes pc and thats an 8350 and a single gtx 770 ( both heavily overclocked ) and she has no troubles running the game at 35 (in novo) to about 110 fps in the open i already listed my fps, and my eldest sons pc is a phenom2 965 with a gtx 480 and that does 30 to 80 or so FPS(yes i need to update his pc ) , so i dont think its as bad as many people are finding ( and thats 2 amd chipsets and one of them really old doing ok with dayz)

[rickyriot 1009]

beans hmm i wonder why its only hitting one core for me ( i even turn off hyperthreading at the advice of dresdan on of the devs at BI not a dayz dev though ) hmm i cant complain with my results but it i guess ill try messing with it see if i can get it to fire on more cores.

I have the -malloc=system -cpuCount=4 -exThreads=7 (AMD 8 Core) command line in steam so you'd hope it would pick up the other cores, but it just doesn't. From the screenshots I believe your assumption (and it's mine too) that DayZ only ever runs on the one core with Windows using the others.

[rickyriot 1009]

I built my wifes pc and thats an 8350 and a single gtx 770 ( both heavily overclocked ) and she has no troubles running the game at 35 (in novo) to about 110 fps in the open i already listed my fps, and my eldest sons pc is a phenom2 965 with a gtx 480 and that does 30 to 80 or so FPS(yes i need to update his pc ) , so i dont think its as bad as many people are finding ( and thats 2 amd chipsets and one of them really old doing ok with dayz)

What resolutions are they running that on?

My 8320 is not that far off the 8350, although I will admit I am hampered by an ageing (but not dreadful) 7770.