Third Person View should be Over-the-Shoulder, NOT a bird's eye view.

[skypig 139]

not surprising at all. 50% like to as it is, 21% like 3pp but think it can be changed slightly, 6% think it should be changed slightly in some other way... leaving just a hair over 1/5th not wanting 3pp in any form.

[Evil Minion 943]

It is not the third person view in DayZ that is the problem, it is that we can see to far

or through walls.

Exactly. I think most third person users would also benefit greatly fom having the peeking removed.

 

As peeking and its gameplay implication is the only thing that keeps most players from playing on third person servers (or bashing the third person mode) I decided to submit a feature request to remove peeking from third person. If you like to play in first person mode or if you don't like the gamplay implications of peeking feel free to vote up. If you like peeking and its gameplay implications feel free to vote down.

[Briljin 102]

Poll  numbers are quite surprising. Only 50.7% of people think that the camera should remain as it is. 

 

Not surprising, the polls show that 3pp is still very popular with only about 20% completely against it.  So about 30% still like it but think some changes could be made, not really a surprise.

Edited November 17, 2014 by Briljin

[evil koala 22]

And when other players have the same 3rd person view as you, all those supposed benefits are moot. Yeah, you can scan your surroundings from a safe spot, but the giggling cannibal that is hunting you in Novy Sobor can do the same thing.

 

I disagree with almost everything you said, but I'll just address this one point. Just because everyone has access to the 3rd person camera does not make "those supposed benefits moot". One can only leverage those benefits in certain positions which encourages players to seek such positions and stay there to gain and maintain an advantage. In short, it drastically changes the way the game is played. If you deny this, then I seriously doubt you play on both types of servers as you claim.

[Mor (DayZ) 57]

Poll  numbers are quite surprising. Only 50.7% of people think that the camera should remain as it is.

Poll numbers are meangless... not only you have no idea if the people who voted actually play in 3rd person view, or one of those 1st person view only "hardcore"s who like to think that their opinion on how other should play the game matters, but also the forum users base isn't representative of the wide Dayz community (especially during development) Edited November 17, 2014 by Mor

[DocWolf 146]

I disagree with almost everything you said, but I'll just address this one point

No, please, discuss in a more articulated way. I'm interested.

 

Just because everyone has access to the 3rd person camera does not make "those supposed benefits moot". One can only leverage those benefits in certain positions which encourages players to seek such positions and stay there to gain and maintain an advantage. In short, it drastically changes the way the game is played

Guys, you have a talent for complicating simple matters. Seriously. Anyway: assuming I understand what you're trying to say...according to what you think, people use 3rd person view to seek spots/positions where this camera view is most useful, and constantly try to manoeuvre their character in a way to gain maximum benefits from the 3rd person view in a somewhat statical way. You know, that "tactical situational self-immobilization" (sic) stuff Rags wrote some post above.

Now, assuming this is really what you're trying to say, let me ask you a question. Are you playing ArmA or DayZ Standalone? Because, you know, what you say has a lot of sense if the videogame we're discussing about is a tactical military simulator. But if we're talking about a zombie apocalypse survival game? No. Not at all. People explore the map, loot cities, hunt wildlife, avoid or fight infected NPCs...they hardly play ArmA in 3rd person.

 

If you deny this, then I seriously doubt you play on both types of servers as you claim.

You got me. I was just posing.

I'm not an hardcore 1st person guy: I'm just a dirty, easymode tactical situational self-immobilizer that just freeze behind fences and walls waiting for an easy prey to come by. What can I say? Not everyone has the mad skillz to be an hardcore player.

[BeefBacon 1185]

3pp is a crutch. It's pretty hard to deny that.

 

I'd like to see a system whereby items and players that are not visible in 1pp should be occluded in 3pp. Either that or make it so that all players and items are invisible in 3pp. You still get to 'be aware of your surroundings' by seeing how you blend into foliage, but you don't get to camp on roofs and peek around walls.

 

 

http://forums.dayzgame.com/index.php?/topic/179477-arma3-third-person-fix-modthoughts/

[DocWolf 146]

3pp is a crutch. It's pretty hard to deny that.

Yet is one of the most popular gaming experiences here on DayZ.

When 0.50 was experimental, 3rd person servers were full to the brim pretty much 24/24 - 7 days on 7. First person ones were heavily underpopulated...talking about EU area (DE and UK servers), don't know first-hand others even if I was told US servers experienced the same issue. Nothing wrong about taking inspiration from ArmA or other military-oriented sim games, but AFAIK DayZ is not a military game where tactical PvP is the core feature. At the moment experimental 0.51 was launched without 1st person servers, only with 3rd person ones.

May I suggest a simple solution? Make peace with yourself and ignore 3rd person view...even if its existence rubs salt over your wounds. People like it, people pay and will pay Bohemia to play DayZ...Bohemia like it.

Edited November 17, 2014 by DocWolf

[Evil Minion 943]

Let people have their crutch - just remove peeking to give the better gameplay to third person players as well and let them play with first person players instead of separating them and calling it a "solution". While I cannot know what the majority wants I know that there are quite a few third person players who do hate peeking and the resulting gameplay. Also out of the arguments for having a third person view "You can peek." only seems to be used as counter to "Others can peek.".

 

So basically by removing peeking the debate could be ended once and for all with a statisfying solution for everyone. But right now its simply not possible to ignore third person forcing everyone who doesn't want to play "peeking simulator" on first person servers and forcing everyone who likes to play in third person to also play "peeking simulator".

Edited November 17, 2014 by Evil Minion

[CJFlint 357]

Heres the deal guys. DayZ SA has an option, you can play one 1pp servers only, or play 3pp and 1pp servers. WTF is the problem? If you don't like 3pp servers, then just don't play on those server types. Simple! Its not even an issue!!!

 

It is really rude to try to inject your play style onto other people when there ALREADY is an option to play on 1pp servers only! Or sway existing mechanics that works fine and people like! Really rude..

 

Get over your selfs ya aint that hard core. SEROUS YOUR NOT for play 1pp. Its soo annoying. I played this game for 100 hours 1pp and 3pp.....there is NO defference in skill required to play either or...Really dam tired of people bringing this crap up on here. Your not pulling any wool over anyones eyes whos played this game a while whos played this game a while on both servers....Its a none issue. So drop it!

 

This game has got bigger problems than this issue, for the devs to spend there time on! There is so much more pressing issues then this one....My god people!

 

I used to think KOS threads were the worst, NOW I def think its 1st person snob threads are the worst....really dumb!

Edited November 17, 2014 by CJFlint

[Caboose187 (DayZ) 3036]

If you don't like 3pp servers, then just don't play on those server types. Simple! Its not even an issue!!!

Except for those who have friends who play on 3pp servers.

[CJFlint 357]

Except for those who have friends who play on 3pp servers.

Well those players either can adapt or play on 1pp servers. Both groups I played with there was plenty on people who played on both. I did! I play both 1pp and 3pp/1pp servers, I like having the option there.

 

This isn't even a argument. Its a waste of time and the devs time.

 

The real issue is there isn't that many 1pp servers. Whos problem is that though? If people REALLY have an issue with 3pp, form 1pp groups, make more servers! Its up to the players to to get those servers and groups up. BUT no one does, instead they come on here, it dis 3pp players and wine and complain. They come up with these dumb over the shoulder ideas, which are just no good. What in the hell would be the point of doing over the shoulder? None! Screw up what everone else likes becuase theres this false idea in some peoples heads that 1pp some how makes you "hardcore". Really?

 

The reason theres is not that many 1pp servers is becuase, no one has paid up the money, to get them up. These "Hardcore" players dont seem to want to take the time to do that, and to form there own clans that prefer 1pp. So to me thats there problem. It also makes me think that theres more too issue, like the whole "Hardcore" tag  they used to have 1pp servers went to peoples heads...Then they come here to the forums, HEY look at me Im hard core cause I play on 1pp servers......Really Fing lame and dumb! Everyone else dosn't give a crap. Everyone I know who plays and I talk too on steam dosn't care about this dumb issue created on this forum.

 

Devs.....you guys should have never labled 1pp servers "Hardcore", it really went to peoples heads.

Edited November 17, 2014 by CJFlint

[Caboose187 (DayZ) 3036]

Well those players either can adapt or play on 1pp servers. Both groups I played with there was plenty on people who played on both.

 

This isn't even a argument. Its a waste of time and the devs time.

How is it a waste of time?  Why should someone be at a disadvantage because he wants to play with his friends?  Easiest way to remove the easymode wall peeking is to have the camera zoom in when you are against the wall.  You want to see what's behind the door, use the lean, that's what it's there for.

[Evil Minion 943]

It is really rude to try to inject your play style onto other people when there ALREADY is an option to play on 1pp servers only!

Its also really rude to try to inject your play style onto other people who want to play in third person mode but without the peeking. The issue is not skill or people being able to play the way they want but the effect on general gameplay that is forced upon you if you want to play on third person servers.

I can play on first person servers because I would play first person either way but many other players enjoy playing in third person while still hating the peeking - but they have no choice. Either you have to stop playing third person completely or you have to cope with peeking. Taking away the third person view because of this would be as much of an overreaction as switching to 100% private servers because of server hopping.

I do not want to force people to play in first person. And I also do not want them to be forced into peeking. Both of those are quite similar in many aspects. Why can't we have a game that offers authentic gameplay and actually allows us to choose our perspective by personal preference?

[Evil Minion 943]

How is it a waste of time?

Because you are apparently talking to a peeking elitist who thinks people without magical obstacle denying vision skills are beneath him. And all those noobs who like the third person perspective without having to peek around every corner or having to fear that someone else does it should get some skills and adapt because immersive gameplay is for pussies.

Thats basically the same as a first person elitist - but even worse from my perspective as it also promotes less authentic and less enjoyable gameplay.

I wonder who people would decide if the choice wasn't first person or third person but third person or third person without peeking.

[CJFlint 357]

Its also really rude to try to inject your play style onto other people who want to play in third person mode but without the peeking. The issue is not skill or people being able to play the way they want but the effect on general gameplay that is forced upon you if you want to play on third person servers.

I can play on first person servers because I would play first person either way but many other players enjoy playing in third person while still hating the peeking - but they have no choice. Either you have to stop playing third person completely or you have to cope with peeking. Taking away the third person view because of this would be as much of an overreaction as switching to 100% private servers because of server hopping.

I do not want to force people to play in first person. And I also do not want them to be forced into peeking. Both of those are quite similar in many aspects. Why can't we have a game that offers authentic gameplay and actually allows us to choose our perspective by personal preference?

Did you read what I wrote. I said I play BOTH 1pp and 1pp/3pp servers! I play on servers the 1pp servers for that reason. I'm not telling anyone how to play.

 

Did you bother to read what wrote last too....about 1pp players forming groups, and putting there own servers up? Putting up the money to get more 1pp servers up. No one wants too! That is the real issue with most real 1pp perference players I hear...just not enough servers....well put more up! Instead of coming here wining about it expecting 3pp players to change there game. Take some leadership and put up more 1pp servers! I love to see more of them! Instead of this let screw over 3pp players, with a dumb over the shoulder view.

 

I'll tell you something I have played this game for 100s hours on both server types...there really isn't that big of an avantage from this "peeking" you speak of. Theres not. For me its really not that big of a difference playing on either or.

Edited November 17, 2014 by CJFlint

[evil koala 22]

Yet is one of the most popular gaming experiences here on DayZ.

 

Something being popular does not mean something is good and should be encouraged. Plenty of mindless and substance-less video games/movies/TV shows are popular. Adding the ability to kick players in the balls with a slow motion replay showing the victim collapse in pain would probably be popular too. 

[CJFlint 357]

 And all those noobs who like the third person perspective without having to peek around every corner or having to fear that someone else does it should get some skills and adapt because immersive gameplay is for pussies.

 

My god that "hardcore" tag really went to your head didn't it. Calling anyone who play 3pp a noobs and "pussies"...jeeeesus. Your exactly what Im talking about here on the forums, exactly why I call these 1pp debates the dumbest threads on the forum. Wow! Not responding to anymore of you posts, or replys...Good Lord

 

Man oh man you lucky there moderators on here or I would troll the living crap out of you! LOL

 

Such a pointless debate.....

Edited November 17, 2014 by CJFlint

[Caboose187 (DayZ) 3036]

People will always take the path of least resistance.   3pp is a cheesy and a cheap gameplay mechanic.  It makes playing "easier" because you don't have to fear the unknown.  Instead of relying on sound you rely on wall/window/door/roof peeking.

[Evil Minion 943]

I'll tell you something I have played this game for 100s hours on both server types...there really isn't that big of an avantage from this "peeking" you speak of. Theres not. For me its really not that big of a difference playing on either or.

I can tell you there is - both from personal experiences and from some Youtube videos (just browse the gallery). Now I did start out with a group that abused peeking a lot, maybe the average third person player does not use it that much. Anyway thats why I moved to first person - because I got fed up with all the peeking going on and the resulting stagnant and camp-heavy gameplay. You won't see many snipers on top of high buildings or towers in first person - because in order to kill helpless freshspawns they have to expose themselves instead of stying invisible while searching for targets. And "kill on sight" often gets reduced to "shoot on sight" as the attacker doesn't get as much time for preparation.

But if it doesn't really make a difference for you or the most players why not remove it? Because thats what I perceived: People love to play in third person more than they love to play without peeking but many would rather play without. So the idea is to provide the optimal conditions for the most players which is removing the peeking and making perspective a matter of preference rather than necessity.

Another example is Chivalry: Most of the playerbase hates the guys who run around looking to the ground all the tme to get earlier hits - something only possible in third person mode - to the point the chat degrades into a flamefest and kickvotes are spammed. Yet people still stick to servers with third person allowed, probably because many enjoy the "normal" third person gameplay without exploiting the perspective.

 

My god that "hardcore" tag really went to your head didn't it. Calling anyone who play 3pp a noobs and "pussies"...jeeeesus.

Hey - read it again! If anything I called first person players "noobs" and "pussies". The point is that "learn to play with peeking" and "learn to play in first person mode" are not so different from each other. There is elitism on both sides and the "hardcore" tag didn't help either. Still you should work on your sarcasm detecting skills. Edited November 17, 2014 by Evil Minion

[CJFlint 357]

People will always take the path of least resistance.   3pp is a cheesy and a cheap gameplay mechanic.  It makes playing "easier" because you don't have to fear the unknown.  Instead of relying on sound you rely on wall/window/door/roof peeking.

Caboose in all serousness. If you really enjoy playing 1pp, and what to see more 1pp game play. YOUR going to have to do something about it your self. Your going to have to form a group and get together with other like minded 1pp players, to get groups started and more servers.

 

Everyone I know who really does enjoy 1pp, says thats the real problem theres not enough server. So...do something about it. You can.

[Caboose187 (DayZ) 3036]

Caboose in all serousness. If you really enjoy playing 1pp, and what to see more 1pp game play. YOUR going to have to do something about it your self. Your going to have to form a group and get together with other like minded 1pp players, to get groups started and more servers.

 

Everyone I know who really does enjoy 1pp, says thats the real problem theres not enough server. So...do something about it. You can.

Why should "I" fork over the money and force "my" friends to play 1pp?

[CJFlint 357]

Why should "I" fork over the money and force "my" friends to play 1pp?

Thats the only way there will be more servers up, if people put more servers up that are 1pp. It require server hosting, which costs money. People pay to have many those servers up we see on the list..that includes 3pp/1pp too. So you want more 1pp game play, you gotta get more servers up. It will take a group effort. But this trying to change 3pp players mind set, or game play will not work. So the REAL 1pp preference players are going to have to take charge of there own servers..

 

How do you think allot of those 3pp/1pp servers got up there.....people paid for them.

 

Everyone I talk to on TS and steam who really play 1pp and prefer it. Say the issue is there is not enough servers that are 1pp only....So make more...simple. Allot of people do it in a group effort, like a donation type thing. There tons of servers that do that.

 

Theres the real solution to having more 1pp game play servers.

Edited November 17, 2014 by CJFlint

[Caboose187 (DayZ) 3036]

Thats the only way there will be more servers up, if people put more servers up that are 1pp. People pay to have many those servers up we see on the list..that includes 3pp/1pp too. So you want more 1pp game play, you gotta get more servers up. It will take a group effort. But this trying to change 3pp players mind set, or game play will not work. So the REAL 1pp perference players are going to have to take charge of there own servers..

 

How do you think allot of those servers got up there.....people paid for them.

No one is trying to tell people who play 3pp to play 1pp, get this through your head.  The issue is the terrible wall peeking mechanic.  Understand yet?

[BeefBacon 1185]

First person ones were heavily underpopulated

 

This is the problem. It's no good saying "if you don't like 3pp then just don't play it" if there are no 1pp servers to play on. People play 3pp because it's easier. They can peek around walls without any risk to themselves, shoot and then run.

 

Why do you think the "INCREASED LOOT SPAWN, 24/7 DAY" servers are so popular? 

 

DayZ, even Arma, should never have had a 3pp mode. It has no place in a milsim and it has no place in a survival game. I understand why people defend it, and when I play 1pp I sometimes wish I could see my character; but when given the choice between maybe having my gun poking out of a bush and being able to see round walls through a disembodied perspective, I'd rather go with the former. 

 

I'd have no problem with 3pp if it couldn't be used to peek round walls. Hell, I'd play it more myself. For now, as far as I'm concerned, it's an exploit that I'd prefer not to use.