September Rant Topic.

[kichilron 8550]

They sell Alpha-Cars and Alpha-Buildings where you live?

 

 

Actually, any car that is being sold these days isn't going through the tests they used to - simply because it's easier to repair 200,000 breaks on broken down cars instead testing it properly in the first place.

 

The "Alpha-Release" concept isn't only a thing in the games-industry, it happens to car-manufacturers as well.

[q.S Sachiel 470]

 

The person making the money is at fault. 100%. It is the publishers job to make sure that they are informing consumers are potential problems with a product. Obviously the "do not purchase" disclaimer is worthless if the game is plastered all over the front of Steam...

 

Well, speaking for yourself, maybe.  Most countries/colonies of the Commonwealth adopt the phrase "Caveat Emptor" which is Latin for 'Let the buyer beware' which is an admission of government that the seller is in a position of greater information/power than the buyer, and that it is the buyer's objective to research before they surrender their money/goods/payment the product, lest they get burned.

 

You're somewhat correct in that Alpha allows for developers some leeway to put in less effort, but ultimately you still haven't (strictly) purchased 'the product', and it sounds like you're intelligent enough to know what 'early access' means, so i won't explain it further than what is in this thread.  It is everyone's obligation to know what they are buying, and if your expectation falls short of that then too bad.  You are essentially an investor that receives no monetary return and the only gain you receive is the final product, in whatever state it may be.

As with investment, there is risk involved.  If you did not manage that risk too bad.  Plenty of people lose money on the sharemarket, but you don't see people screaming in their respective trading houses about how they made a poor decision.  They fade out of obscurity.  Unless they're a US banker.

 

TBH a more useful analogy would be testing pharmaceuticals.  Most modern countries enforce rigorous tests prior to human testing for safety purposes.  That said, certain life-threatening afflictions sometimes give rise to 'early access/trials' of potentially lethal treatments, but the cost is outweighed by potential gain.  Although it may be the cancer that gets you in the end, you're taking quite a gamble on your remaining minutes/hours/days to try to grab a few more slices of life.

 

Unlucky for some, DayZ early testing "Alpha early access" is not lethal, so they slap a disclaimer on it, take your money, and thank you for your support of their future product.

Edited September 2, 2014 by q.S Sachiel

[ChainReactor 922]

Actually, any car that is being sold these days isn't going through the tests they used to - simply because it's easier to repair 200,000 breaks on broken down cars instead testing it properly in the first place.

 

The "Alpha-Release" concept isn't only a thing in the games-industry, it happens to car-manufacturers as well.

 

You're partly right, but I would say that cars get sold in beta, since you will not be able to buy a car from a manufacturer before all its features are added, which would be alpha.

 

Also i think we just turned towards offtopic street.

[scriptfactory 620]

Well, speaking for yourself, maybe.  Most countries/colonies of the Commonwealth adopt the phrase "Caveat Emptor" which is Latin for 'Let the buyer beware' which is an admission of government that the seller is in a position of greater information/power than the buyer, and that it is the buyer's objective to research before they surrender their money/goods/payment the product, lest they get burned.

 

Yes, this is definitely my own opinion. I am not saying that the developers are doing anything wrong or illegal. I am saying that people complaining about getting taken advantage of are well within their rights and everyone telling them to "shut up because they didn't read the disclaimers" should take a bit of their own advice.

[q.S Sachiel 470]

Well entitled to your opinion as you are, plenty of people out there will take your money without batting an eyelid, many with intentions far worse than what i believe BI holds.  So complain all you will, but if you're dissatisfied I'd focus on learning from that experience, going forward.

I'll be the first to say that I'm just as fallable.  But that's why i don't support SEGA, Gearbox software or Blizzard Entertainment/Activision any more :)

 

That said, stick around and see, then we can comment on the doomsayers and fanboys with some level of authority.

Captain Hindsight is a great leader.  I would follow him into battle walking backwards any day.

Edited September 2, 2014 by q.S Sachiel

[blacklabel79 949]

I am saying that people complaining about getting taken advantage of are well within their rights and everyone telling them to "shut up because they didn't read the disclaimers" should take a bit of their own advice.

nah they are silly unwashed uneducated masses...it has been like this since the stoneage ;)

[Elle 562]

Yes, this is definitely my own opinion. I am not saying that the developers are doing anything wrong or illegal. I am saying that people complaining about getting taken advantage of are well within their rights and everyone telling them to "shut up because they didn't read the disclaimers" should take a bit of their own advice.

ummm I read the disclaimer and I went into the game with no disillusions and I have no issues with the current dev state of the game - I will still tell the idiots that failed to inform themselves as to the nature of this game's development to shut the hell up if their only problem is they don't know how to READ. if you fail to inform yourself of the nature of the product you are buying you have only YOURSELF to blame if the product doesn't live up to your uninformed expectations. its the equivalent of buying a red car and expecting it to be blue on delivery and then bitching because its red.

 

so no they are not "well within their rights" to expect a product they did NOT buy.

[WhiteZero 72]

 

The person making the money is at fault. 100%. It is the publishers job to make sure that they are informing consumers are potential problems with a product. Obviously the "do not purchase" disclaimer is worthless if the game is plastered all over the front of Steam...

 

As far as I know, Steam/Valve decide what gets posted on the Featured Games roll, so thats not BI's call. Otherwise, how is it "plastered all over the front of Steam"? Being in the Top Sellers list is just inherinet to the popularity of the game, again not BI's call.

 

Personally I think Early Access games shoulden't be visible on the Front Page at all. Less chance of all these ignorant people buying the game sight-unseen.

[q.S Sachiel 470]

Given the shear volume of reviews and other information such as forums and substitute products with the same reviews and info, simply having a product advertised and available (front page or bottom) is no real problem either.  It's just more accessable to purchase.

[Calvin Candie 189]

If we would we would by called hypocrites again and have even more people yelling at us...

Especially as I don't mind the discussion going on in here for once. Keep it calm and steady and this thread shall remain.

I think everyone around here but you has heard of deadlines and actually knows how to read. The plan was to not even be near Beta at this point in time and at the earliest at around end of the year (which is atleast 3-4 months from now).

So - deadlines are there and they're still atleast one quarter away. We're going to use the term "Alpha" as long as it's an Alpha. As that's what it is.

Now, if you will, go back to your girlfriend / psychologist / mother / priest and yell at them when they are finally going to stop calling "cheese" by what it is.

Hahaha made me laugh, got beans from me. Ok I maybe overeacted, all I am going to say :P

[RagedDrew 209]

 

 

 

 

It's their own fault that some people trusted the game would be in beta by December 2014? It seems that no matter what you will just defend the developers so this conversation is over.

 

 

 

I said it once and I'll say it again, I'm not defending anyone here, all I'm doing is giving you my opinion on people who complain about a alpha game despite clicking "I Understand" every time they start the game.

 

Do I get frustrated at this game? of course I do.

Do I think the DEVs are the best out there? Of course not.

Do I think they could do more quicker? Yeah but then I have no clue about coding a game, other than I know it's not easy.

Do I come here to the forums and whine about it? No because I understand it's alpha and they are working on it.

 

Who said it won't make it to beta by December, your opinion doesn't make it fact.

 

Tbh, the worst thing is the community full of people who never played the mod (I don't count Epoch/Origins cancer as DayZ).

 

What has that got to do with anything?  That's like saying, you've not got 1,000 hours game time so you can't comment on anything in these forums.

Edited September 2, 2014 by RagedDrew

[JPWiser 251]

Merge with the pinned topic maybe? This dead horse is still getting beaten like a donkey.

[Caboose187 (DayZ) 3036]

I said it once and I'll say it again, I'm not defending anyone here, all I'm doing is giving you my opinion on people who complain about a alpha game despite clicking "I Understand" every time they start the game.

 

Do I get frustrated at this game? of course I do.

Do I think the DEVs are the best out there? Of course not.

Do I think they could do more quicker? Yeah but then I have no clue about coding a game, other than I know it's not easy.

Do I come here to the forums and whine about it? No because I understand it's alpha and they are working on it.

 

Who said it won't make it to beta by December, your opinion doesn't make it fact.

Agreed with everything here

What has that got to do with anything?  That's like saying, you've not got 1,000 hours game time so you can't comment on anything in these forums.

To be fair there is a large number of posters who barely have any play time yet spout off thinking they know the game like the back of their hand. 

[terminal_boy 860]

Actually, any car that is being sold these days isn't going through the tests they used to - simply because it's easier to repair 200,000 breaks on broken down cars instead testing it properly in the first place.

 

The "Alpha-Release" concept isn't only a thing in the games-industry, it happens to car-manufacturers as well.

I'm going to have to disagree here and point to the thousands of design and safety standards that modern motor vehicles have to comply with.

Growing up driving 3rd hand death traps built in the 1970s and 1980s, my 2014 Honda feels like it's from a different planet rather than just a different century.

Class action suits have long since made the old "cheaper to settle out of court than fix a bad design" a non-starter.

[grindstone50k 208]

When will people tire of posting the same whine over and over? If a bug got you killed, just take a step back, get a stiff drink, and go play something else for a while.

[hothtimeblues 128]

Translation: I can't handle people disagreeing with my whiny rants, so I label them "butthurt" as a defensive mechanism.

What I was really looking for was a bunch of posts only agreeing with me. Circlejerks are fun!

I cant stand people who defend how bad this alpha is going by calling out anyone who speaks up as whiners.

The OP pointed out basic facts. I didnt see it as crying. It takes more guts to speak up in this forum of so many defenders of the progress.

[grindstone50k 208]

I cant stand people who defend how bad this alpha is going by calling out anyone who speaks up as whiners.

 

So when did you stop playing DayZ?

 

 

It takes more guts to speak up in this forum of so many defenders of the progress. 

Best joke all day.

[hothtimeblues 128]

So when did you stop playing DayZ?

Best joke all day.

The joke is you claiming spotty navmesh after 8 months as proof there is progress.

But your opinion is just as valid as mine.

Edited September 3, 2014 by hothtimeblues

[d.walker43 196]

Alright. I try to not complain, and have a lot of patience. But im starting to get sick of this. If you are geared up the game is great, but as a fresh spawn it is nearly unplayable. Im trying not to whine about this, but something needs to be done.

 

Ive been a fresh spawn for nearly a week, and died several times a day in this time. Why? because zombies are still broken. I ask that this please take priority over other things being worked on, as it is probably one of, if not the most important aspect of the game. It is a zombie survival game after all. They are still broken in several ways.

 

1: spawn on spot of previous death or very close to it, very quickly.

2: still go through doors and walls, not as often but still do. I will lock one inside, then continue looting and 5 minutes later the same zombie is back.

3: melee is still broken, this is pretty self-explanatory for those who have experienced it.

 

There are other things too, these are just the big ones. Now, please don't respond with belligerent comments. I understand this is alpha, things are being worked on, I know. don't tell me to leave and come back later or any of that sh**. Im trying to be mature about this, so please attempt to return the favor. Thanks.

[Zyryanoff 227]

as one guy said: "9 months and this is it?" <_< ...

:D

[Baker. 1484]

You make a great point. Maybe since this early access thing is a pioneering event, maybe it should change the development cycle itself. It seams as though the project is moving as though people arent playing it, merely testing it. and while thats true in a sense maybe the real way to do this is cater to the playerbase a little more all the while developing. 

[VidGames 0]

i started out a couple days ago and already have a heli and tons of guns. Sure, theres a little luck involved in it, but im playing vanilla dayz which is the hardest out of them all. You simply suck.

[Good Greef 29]

Never thought I'd say it but---

 

Dayz is dead broke. Hacking is way out of control and I really never thought I would say those words, but enough is enough. teleporting/invisible/esp what the hell already guys. Why are these old hacks still present? Now we got random broke leg hack and Thunderdome is back? Like that isn't a big old smack in the devs face. Hicks says its impossible on twitter, so like---what does he know?

 

Throw my weapon every night multiple x and 90% of the time it disappears. Running in an empty field on an empty server, broke leg your dead. Can't hear any gun shots anymore. One hit from a zed and everything in your shirt/pants/vest are ruined. I don't even store anything in my pants/shirt/vest anymore. Last 2-3 updates have been so game-breaking buggy. Melee is straight junk. Going to PAX was a straight fucking waste for development. What are they doing a deal with Astro for PS4 to compete against Turtle Beach or something? Who cares.

 

Why do they keep pushing these borked updates out? To stick to some dilapidated version of a roadmap?

 

Love the game, know its alpha, between SA and the mod I got 3.4k hours in---but FFS quit releasing broken updates. If something isn't working properly, can it until it does.

[scriptfactory 620]

The joke is you claiming spotty navmesh after 8 months as proof there is progress.

But your opinion is just as valid as mine.

 

The whole problem is the shitty DayZ engine and the scope of this project. The H1Z1 guys have a smaller team and the amount of in-game features they have added is staggering. But look at the difference in what they added.

 

- Vehicles: Very basic vehicles. No interchangeable parts (yet) but they work. DayZ will have complex cars with parts and shit.

- Bases and barricading: Very awesome. I have nothing bad to say about the way they have implemented base building. I hope DayZ does something just as good.

- Horticulture: awesome. I guess DayZ will have something similar one day.

- Loot: most loot comes in the form of world containers. Kinda' lame. The DayZ system is much better but I do hope they get world containers working as soon as item persistence is done.

- HUD: Arcadey. Health bars. etc. Kinda' lame but so are the DayZ status messages. Both games need to improve their user interface.

So, while they have made good progress, the actual in-game features are kinda' more basic and will be made more complex over time. DayZ is going straight for the advanced features. I prefer the H1Z1 method of agile development but DayZ is definitely doing OK.

 

I seriously thought we would have working tents in April, though, like Rocket said. Kinda' strange how long it is taking to add in the basics of barricading, zombies and item persistence.

[blacklabel79 949]

it might after some time...henche...as you understand...alpha and all that jazz...

 

*plus...seems hacking is more present on US servers....i wonder why that is :P

Edited September 3, 2014 by {Core}BlackLabel