Dean Hall on Vehicles and Barricading

[Deathlove 2283]

Wow.

 

Non-globally restricted gear (say, nvgs) = people server hopping to get them.

globally restricted gear = people can't server hop to get them.

 

End result: people are already server hopping for gear. This literally won't change the frequency at all.

 

You don't need any of the things proposed for globally restricted loot.

 

Your pet issue is closing the public hive and/or opening private hives. That will address server hopping. Not this issue. Move along, sir.

No but what you do is lock the characters to the servers they choose until they die, make items vary in rarity and actual make ppl have to work for there gear rather than server hop. I see no reason why they cannot just lock characters and work on an actual normal spawn mechanic for loot rarity rather than do it all complex the other way. We shouldn't have to rely on private servers to get shit done or gimmicky mechanics presented like in this one for public.

[pillock 850]

Careful your knees don't jerk themselves loose from the rest of your leg, chaps.

[slippery gypsy 107]

so it's now a clan game is it, play as a clan, or don't get the full game experience.

 

What a load of crap.

sand box to do with as you wish ... 

[slippery gypsy 107]

No but what you do is lock the characters to the servers they choose until they die, make items vary in rarity and actual make ppl have to work for there gear rather than server hop. I see no reason why they cannot just lock characters and work on an actual normal spawn mechanic for loot rarity rather than do it all complex the other way. We shouldn't have to rely on private servers to get shit done or gimmicky mechanics presented like in this one for public.

only drama is group play that your geared on one server and friends are on another and you cant play together .... so when you say "servers" are you implying a few or 1 toon to one server ...

[Deathlove 2283]

only drama is group play that your geared on one server and friends are on another and you cant play together .... so when you say "servers" are you implying a few or 1 toon to one server ...

One toon to one server. You only need make sure you tell your friends exactly which server you play on. Unless i guess they have no way of ever communicating online. But you can also use the friend play option on steam to join the exact server they play on as well.

 

Thats pretty much how it is now anyways minus the character lock. As of now its just one hardcore character and one normal character that are restricted to there server types until death.

[agentneo 337]

Global restrictions restricts also private servers.

 

Dean with it.

I think your wrong here mate, global hive economy, means only effecting public hive. Servers which are private, or off hive, will not be controlled by global hive economy. As i explained before ,. they are going to need 2 systems- a closed private economy, where everything can be found per chance in ONE server, and the global economy for publics, where everything is controlled across all servers.

[q.S Sachiel 470]

It actually stops server hopping.

 

What good would server hopping do if all of the servers are done spawning rotors ?

 

If you reach your limit of say 500 rotors across all server server hopping just becomes a waste of time.

If the player isn't aware of the degree of free parts available, then what you said is redundant as people will search for the parts anyway without knowning that the limit has been reached (all parts found and owned).

It doesn't stop server hopping unless you've got this notification, which i'd argue detracts from immersion.  Also assuming the cap had been reached, it may encourage server hopping to find the people who already own the parts.

 

Also consider the situation from a complete-vehicle perspective.  If global parts are fixed, and people have made vehicles, then it can be said that the vehicle is 'locked' to that server (unless able to be disassembled).  This may encourage vehicle hoarding, with vehicle rich servers and resultant vehicle poor servers.  One possible remedy to this is to have parts degrade upon taking damage, and instead of turning 'ruined' they fail and disintigrate (removed from server) and then are 'up for grabs' again, re-entering the zero-sum global fixed free part value.  This may lead to the next situation however:

 

What of half-completed vehicles?  Again taking the above parts value fixed = vehicles value fixed theory, it's more likely for partially completed (read immobile/non-functional) vehicles to exist than a fully complete vehicle (unless people are just hoarding parts, which is unlikely/uneconomic from a functional/fun point of view, given inventory restriction.  Clans may minimise this effect, but I would argue it would still be detrimental as clanners should be cooperating on a small number of servers anyway).  This means that most players (and servers) out there will have three-tenth's-of-sweet-f***-all.

 

Considering the above, if global parts and inferred global vehicles are restricted to a fixed value,  everyone's getting a little bit of nothing.  If Dean really wants to restrict whole/functional vehicles from being available this may be one mechanism, but I'd argue it's a poor system (without able to provide a solution ;) )  but I see this just adding to a disparity in have/have not across servers/regions as a whole, or lending to a redundant system where everyone has a part of the whole without access to the functionality that the part should provide.  These things would be like 'greys' in MMO's.  Clutter/filler/sawdust items.

 

Adding to the redundancy I see in this system, if the fixed value is too high, then there's no point having a 'fixed limit'.  If the value is too low, then I see my above points being more likely to happen unless the value is distributed across a (different) fixed value of servers, ie: Xval parts per Yval servers.  Fine-tuning the sweetspot seems like too much effort for too little gain in my opinion, given that SA still hasn't reached mod standard, and that the ratio may need to be altered if global/regional server numbers rise/fall into the future...

 

I see far too many flaws in this kind of system.  Just lock the number parts/vehicles available/theoretical per server if you want to make it restrictive.  Hell, you could even make these parts spawn only inside vehicles (like curently existing carcasses of sedan/combi/police cars/trucks) in urban areas (or ultra low drops off heli-crash sites), make sure there's enough vehicles scattered about the map and give the parts a real low drop rate (Xcars total in map * Ydroprate= Zmax available usable vehicles/server), so that people would need to scour the whole map (read move out of berez) and the chance of finding parts is still relatively low...   I also expect a rotor assemblage to take up more space than 4 cans of beans...

Edited July 7, 2014 by q.S Sachiel

[Death By Crowbar 1213]

I'm disappointed Dean didn't talk about riding animals. I should be able to mount and ride a cow. Or a zed. I should be able to ride a zed. Mostly because something like a horse would be too lame. I just wouldn't want my supply of cow legs and utters globally restricted. Server hopping for the lost utter would be silly.

[Deathlove 2283]

I'm disappointed Dean didn't talk about riding animals. I should be able to mount and ride a cow. Or a zed. I should be able to ride a zed. Mostly because something like a horse would be too lame. I just wouldn't want my supply of cow legs and utters globally restricted. Server hopping for the lost utter would be silly.

Thats one kinky fetish you have there boy. XD

[hellcat420 212]

making people server hop for vehicle parts  is a really stupid idea. this is the kind of dumb crap that makes private servers more popular than public servers.

Edited July 7, 2014 by hellcat420

[KiskilleAcronym 43]

Listen to what Dean Hall has to say about vehicles...

(The topic starts at 0:52)

http://youtu.be/dFgkbXul3K4

-The idea to achieve vehicle parts through "server hopping" is very bad and very unrealistic.

-Mod was a LOT MORE realistic in this particular matter. Cause when in your right mind will you want to go to a server to find a part with a very big chance of getting killed, and in the end if you survive go back to the 1st server where you left the vehicle welcome to everyone to steal for the time of your absence. Now you find yourself driving and a freshspawn comes out of nowhere and just KOS-s you right as you drive past him.

-I wish they do the vehicles just like in mod. Simple and fun. But of course the developers have to complicate cause they are not watching it from the players perspective. WHY???

-I don't think players have the time or patience to do this bull****.

-And in the end not everyone has a clan to go grab parts FROM ONE SERVER TO ANOTHER. This is very dementing and frustrating cause when will a lone-wolf be able to get parts for himself then?

All the statements indicate how bad actually the idea is. Devs are just focusing on adding things THEY think are good, but they are not listening to the community. They guys who pay them.

They should make vehicle parts more like it was in mod. Go around scattering until you gathered all the right ingredients. I think a lot of you will agree with me on this one.

Edited November 8, 2014 by kichilron

[kichilron 8550]

The problem here is that it was most likely explained in a wrong way.

It does not mean you are going to benefit from server hopping, because you will never know that you will benefit from switching servers. If you don't know if a specific thing will spawn on the server you're playing on or where it WILL spawn - it is a non-issue.

How would you know where a specific part will spawn? You don't. This is why it will not encourage server hopping.

We have had this discussion in length already, you're 3-4 months late.

[Mor (DayZ) 57]

The problem here is that it was most likely explained in a wrong way.

To be honest, the way he explained seemed pretty straightforward i.e. Some items will be restricted globally, hence you may have to server hop to acquire them. In his example if you learn about a server with a working heli, you'll want to jump in, take it down and strip it apart. which will be your best bet to find those parts. Edited November 8, 2014 by Mor

[kichilron 8550]

To be honest, the way he explained seemed pretty straightforward i.e. Some items will be restricted globally, hence you may have to server hop to acquire them. In his example if you learn about a server with a working heli, you'll want to jump in, take it down and strip it apart. which will be your best bet to find those parts.

Even without the global restriction you would server jump to that server to acquire that helo, would you not? This does not change anything about how to acquire this and why it should be globally restricted.

I still stand by my point, that you wouldn't know where to acquire the part other than stripping other people's vehicles, thus not creating an incentive to server hop.

Edited November 8, 2014 by kichilron

[pillock 850]

It would encourage a different type of server hopping.

 

If working helicopters were truly rare, then word would get out (on these here forums, probably) that such-and-such server has one. Then, people would flock to that server to try and find it and strip it of parts. The owners of the helicopter would realise this, and may well resort to stripping it down themselves before logging off, and hiding the parts in different other servers for safe keeping.

 

Either way, it's likely to encourage various types of meta-gaming, including jumping between servers to look for stuff. This is not necessarily a bad thing, and it'll be interesting to see how it affects player behaviour.

[Mor (DayZ) 57]

Even without the global restriction you would server jump to that server to acquire that helo, would you not? This does not change anything about how to acquire this and why it should be globally restricted.

Not everyone is a server hopper.. and globally restriction change the fact that you might have to be, because "end game" items may not spawn on the server you choose or has been taken by some server hopper.

It would encourage a different type of server hopping.

Indeed hashtag the big heli hunt... Edited November 8, 2014 by Mor

[kichilron 8550]

Not everyone is a server hopper.. and globally restriction change the fact that you might have to be, because "end game" items may not spawn on the server you choose or has been taken by some server hopper.

You fail to acknowledge my point, though:

There is no possible way you could figure this out. You wouldn't know if it is taken or not. None of this information would be available to you, which is why there is no reason to server hop.

It is as simple as that... Just imagine you're playing on a server. How would you know what items are going to spawn on that server and which won't? It is already like that.. You're playing on a server, hoping to find that one tng you want to find and you will have to search for it until you find it. Or you may never find it. But you wouldn't know if your chances were better on a different server.

Your problem with this system doesn't seem to be the design decision of the devs. It seems you have a problem with chances and randomness. But such is life.

[General Zod 1114]

The problem here is that it was most likely explained in a wrong way.

It does not mean you are going to benefit from server hopping, because you will never know that you will benefit from switching servers. If you don't know if a specific thing will spawn on the server you're playing on or where it WILL spawn - it is a non-issue.

How would you know where a specific part will spawn? You don't. This is why it will not encourage server hopping.

We have had this discussion in length already, you're 3-4 months late.

Good point BUT :

Loot is not random. At least not random enough. 

We all know that certain buildings have "tendency" for spawning specific loot, we know where to go for highest chance of getting certain items, and that's not including police stations or military bases. 

There is a pattern with all types of loot, and over the time we will learn it. 

[galekast 70]

This is a terrible idea quite simply.. As if the server hopping crap isn't bad enough, now people will be jumping to other servers because of rumours of heli's or other vehicles. I want to play on one server, have a "community" as such build up inside that server, maybe even get to know people on it and the such like. As someone else said, the mod had this perfectly. Yes you had to hunt around for parts, but everything you required was available on the server you were on. Why would you possibly encourage someone to server hop for potential parts? Like I said, I want to stick with one server, one where my base/tents or whatever there is eventually is all setup. Why would you encourage people to leave the server they play on for this? It makes no sense and is truly idiotic. The map is big enough to have potential spawn points for every potential vehicle part (Car parts in gas stations, repair shops, workshops, barns etc. Heli parts at the various air fields and hangars.) So why have this crazy, convoluted system of finding certain parts? Me and the people I play with don't want to server hop, we want to play on a particular server and build up a rapport and knowledge with the other people on that server. Not have to jump round 30-40 servers just to find a rotor blade for a god damn helicopter. Totally unrealistic and totally ridiculous in my opinion. 

[kichilron 8550]

Good point BUT :

Loot is not random. At least not random enough. 

We all know that certain buildings have "tendency" for spawning specific loot, we know where to go for highest chance of getting certain items, and that's not including police stations or military bases. 

There is a pattern with all types of loot, and over the time we will learn it.

This is not something that is connected with the global loot economy, though. And I don't doubt that there will be other measures taken to sort this out.

And it makes complete sense to not have M4's spawn in Pubs. This is the pattern you're seeing. It is just to emulate realism.

[pillock 850]

This is a terrible idea quite simply.. As if the server hopping crap isn't bad enough, now people will be jumping to other servers because of rumours of heli's or other vehicles. I want to play on one server, have a "community" as such build up inside that server, maybe even get to know people on it and the such like. As someone else said, the mod had this perfectly. Yes you had to hunt around for parts, but everything you required was available on the server you were on. Why would you possibly encourage someone to server hop for potential parts? Like I said, I want to stick with one server, one where my base/tents or whatever there is eventually is all setup. Why would you encourage people to leave the server they play on for this? It makes no sense and is truly idiotic. The map is big enough to have potential spawn points for every potential vehicle part (Car parts in gas stations, repair shops, workshops, barns etc. Heli parts at the various air fields and hangars.) So why have this crazy, convoluted system of finding certain parts? Me and the people I play with don't want to server hop, we want to play on a particular server and build up a rapport and knowledge with the other people on that server. Not have to jump round 30-40 servers just to find a rotor blade for a god damn helicopter. Totally unrealistic and totally ridiculous in my opinion. 

 

With private shards, I'd expect this to be possible - ie. everything is potentially available within that shard. That's also where communities will develop. Problem is, you might end up having to pay to get on those servers, owing to the fact that they're more expensive to host.

[kichilron 8550]

Totally unrealistic and totally ridiculous in my opinion.

You don't encourage server hopping with this. I suggest you read the thread and my posts first.

[ImageCtrl 719]

Can you leave a link?

My opinion still now is...

The idea of the hive is crap.

Why?

When you don't encourage server hopping with this, you need to place the loot 100% random.

This means anonymous places no one remembers.

 

No "factory" "hospital" "airfield" missions anymore. You loot random anonymous places.

 

Most time I post nothing here anymore because all I see is awesome, nothing to complain, but I never got the hive idea.

[General Zod 1114]

This is not something that is connected with the global loot economy, though. And I don't doubt that there will be other measures taken to sort this out.

And it makes complete sense to not have M4's spawn in Pubs. This is the pattern you're seeing. It is just to emulate realism.

Like I said military bases / gear aside. I know which buildings are more likely to have civilian guns in them, I know which buildings are common food spawn or scopes. Same goes for every item. Yes some are more random than others. But there is a a pattern for each and every item. This is why server hopping is viable in the first place, even outside of military bases. 

[Evil Minion 943]

The idea to achieve vehicle parts through "server hopping" is very bad and very unrealistic.

Its not about server hopping but about using the loot economy to its fullest by also taking into account the connections between maps. Which means you have more area to search and and vehicle parts. However the intended procedure is more likely like this:

1. day of search -> server A, found some parts
2. day of search -> server B, found nothing
3. day of search -> server C, found some parts,
4. day of search -> returning to server A to assemble parts found
5. day of search -> server D, traded some parts for other gear I found
6. day of search...

And not the server hopping where you switch servers rapidly. Its more like single maps being islands you can travel between and search for the things you need or you just trade between servers.

 

In fact this would require server hopping to be fixed as one of the key mechanics is  a significant cost for "changing the island" that makes staying and looking around more viable, reduces excessive switching and opens some opportunities for trade. So for this to come true the current unhealthy server hopping needs to be transformed into a healthy mechanic. In fact it would work perfectly fine even if players were limited to a single server each day (after you first joined a server you are unable to switch for 24 hours).

 

Server hopping kills this idea (as you can see from the comments above) - but thats not because the idea is bad but because server hopping needs fixing. Everyone who wants to "create a community" listen up: By limiting characters to a single server you will have far more characters per player which in the end might result in much less of a community as players switch between them at will and there is simply no connection. Having one character per player on a hive that structurally resembles a cluster of islands might work much better especially with persistence - because while you can travel around (again: key is travel between "islands" being quite costly) you might have a "home island" - and even if its full or completely empty it will still be your home.