Dean Hall on Vehicles and Barricading

[trev186 389]

You're addressing an example. Obviously M4s and AKMs aren't going be globally restricted.

 

You're revealing what I'm increasing believing to be true: people who are scared of globally restricted gear are really just butt hurt because they might not ever have the "best stuff in the game".

 

We're talking about NVGs... come on, who cares? Do you really want everyone and their dog running around the NVGs? I promise you, if NVGs are NOT globally restricted everyone is going to server hop to get them. but guess what? With globally restricted NVGs you CAN'T server hop to get them. So instead of night time meaning everyone just plays green tinted DayZ (like in the mod), it'll mean actually dealing with the dark. Or playing on 24/7 day servers like you all already do.

 

We're also talking about heli parts. Trust me, you WANT heli parts globally restricted. If every server can put even just 1 heli in the air then clans are going to get helis on really unpopular and never visited servers. Now they can server hop to an empty server, fly where ever they want, and server hop back to a full one and appear at your back door. Believe me... you WANT globally restricted helis. If you played the mod, you know this is true.

 

We're also probably talking about some really powerful weapon or two, but this is speculation. Let's pretend the as-50 is globally restricted.

 

...

 

Okay... who cares? They'll be so rare you'll probably not encounter one. Ever.

 

Oh that's right! You're just sad because you want one too!

 

 

in regards to NVGs people just gamma up...vast majority do and they have stated they cannot fix this...

 

If it is only a few weapons then I am cool with this ultra rare thing. But the poster I was replying to was hoping that the majority of military loot would face this restriction and that was what I was disagreeing with. Not saying I want every damn item in the game and not sad. I am a person interested in this games success and am providing my opinion. 

 

As far as helis and cars. The harder the better. I play lone wolf and having clans and squads roll in with helos and hummers out of no where and running me down feels like really lame game play that does not reward stealth 

Edited July 4, 2014 by trev186

[trev186 389]

Gameplay balance ? to create some sort of item hyerarchy ? who knows but whatever it is it simply works its a great idea.

 

People will not suddenly stop playing because they cant find an m4 man. Even if they did who cares they already bought the game so what.

 

Also as far as the percentages and numbers go nobody knows what loot or how many of that loot will be restricted. So arguing purely on that is pointless . At the end of the day the game improves due to the devs being able to control the loot better.

 

This is a game with perma death...that alone removes most balance issues. Sure a player may be armed to the teeth but he can be out numbered and killed and then he is back to square one

 

yes people will likely stop playing and when they do they will tell others of their negative exp and persuade others to not purchase the game

 

I agree with point 3 but you are on here talking like we are all going to be limited to residential gear and the military loot will be in the hands of only a few...which I feel is lame. A minority of the items (not just military) should have this restriction & they should not be game breaking. 

[Demonica 311]

The only thing that bugs me about it is, that it kind of restricts the Lone Wolf play style. From what I gather, it is an absolute necessity to be in a group to get these more rare items, because these items are most likely in the hands of a clan.

 

Of course you can try to go alone to get a rare weapon or NVG or whatever and have a 98% chance of dying, but I doubt that's gonna be a favorite option for a lot of people.

 

Personally, I don't need NVG's or Heli's or even cars (although a bike would be nice), but if I would want those items, it looks like you have to join a group (and who can you trust when you don't have friends in the game yet anyway? And who is gonna trust you?), but I think it would be frustrating, not ever to get the theoretical chance of such an item because you're lone wolfing it.

 

I would be totally in for opening a trade center of sorts, that might be the only option besides laying siege on clans etc.

 

Just my two cents. Keep them ;-)

Edited July 5, 2014 by Demonica

[sai (DayZ) 137]

 

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 01:09 AM

 

 

A MASSIVE immersion killer. 

 

We should never have to leave a server. The whole point of a server is a stable world where the things you do there effect the world, taking items, building bases, etc.

If I'm going to have to do things that are not part of the ingame gameplay inorder to play the game properly, then I might as well just get a better game thats not going to hell. ;]

 

Game hopping. 

 

 

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 05:03 PM

Making helis, or any other item so rare will ruin the game, almost nobody will ever get to use them, and when they do have them they will constantly fear losing it. That is not fun. What is this? It's restricting gameplay.

 

Make the parts hard to get sure.

But guess what, helis were hard to get in the mod, it was rare to see one flying over head in the vanilla game. Yet the parts were not that rare. 

This is a game, to treat is as anything but a game will ruin the experience. Saying you won't find items in the real word so easy is foolish. You won't find so called zombies either, and the world is MASSIVE, also You can interact with EVERYTHING.

 

You can't put real world situations into a game without the game being close to the real world. You make compromises, you make the game a GAME. Not a pain.

Make them rare, sure, but don't stop 99% of players from having the full experience.  

 

 

 

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I've posted about this before and got a lot of crap from mods about being off topic which I wasn't. 

 

http://forums.dayzgame.com/index.php?/topic/184748-dean-hall-encourages-server-hopping-at-egx-rezzed/page-6

 

I won't put effort into arguing anymore about this.

Edited July 5, 2014 by sai

[slippery gypsy 107]

love it ... yall blah blah interaction blah blah ... your now forced to clan up and attack people to collect parts for you army .... brilliant

[pillock 850]

I think people are overreacting to this global restriction on certain items. We don't know how rare these items are going to be yet - it's likely that the devs don't even know yet. Part of the development process will be balancing this rarity, and our feedback will surely be taken into account?

 

I find it very unlikely that they'll go with ratios like 100 items to 1,000,000 players on anything, because that would be detrimental to the game. Having global control over item count allows the developers to maintain the rarity balance over time, and this should be a good thing.

[sai (DayZ) 137]

love it ... yall blah blah interaction blah blah ... your now forced to clan up and attack people to collect parts for you army .... brilliant

so it's now a clan game is it, play as a clan, or don't get the full game experience.

 

What a load of crap.

[TiggyPooh 134]

I'm pretty good at flying helicopters in ARMA and it was one of the reasons I bought the game, but I can't recall how many choppers I have crashed, because it was so many.

 

Just saying, having to spend days hopping servers to fixing up a helicopter that you might crash in the blink of an eye, or get sniped out of is just not worth the effort.  :(

I personally would like to see something like 3 helicopters per server that respawn after they are destroyed and the parts to fix them common in industrial sites at the airfields.

Personally I find it very misleading to maybe later advertise a game with Helicopters that are next to unobtainable to the average player. Maybe it will need a new red warning message before buying the game. ;)  

[rickyriot 1009]

I still don't get why the hell people keep going on about NVGs being super rare....there are military bases and police stations on the map. Last time I checked in my company NVGs were a pretty standard piece of kit and that was a few years ago, hell even in the job I have now we have standard issue NVGs.

Choppers on the other hand.....yup totally agree that they should be as hard as hell, if any at all

 

Mind you the ones we get issued now are nowhere near as good as the mili ones.

 

Because NVG's ruin the game. It's one of those situations where realism shouldn't be replicated in the virtual world. 

 

You can have military gear like heavy duty weapons that gives one player a big advantage over another, although both are on a 'level playing field' when it comes to the environment around them. Give one person NVG and that suddenly gives them such a massive advantage over the other that it is too much of an imbalance. 

 

I played the mod, a lot, before SA and the experience of the NVGs meant that you had to have them for any night time game play as they effectively turned the night time to daylight. Anyone without them were just cannon fodder unable to detect those around them while those had them saw everything. It ruined the night time game play and just turned night servers into green daylight ones.

 

In short, yes they exist in real life and yes I want DayZ as realistic as possible but there has to be artificial limits put into the game in order to maintain a certain level of game play - and before anyone says, "no it should be as realistic as real life", just remember that if you break your leg you can immediately "cure" it by applying a stick and cloth (or morphine) rather than having it set and wait for 6 months in game.

Edited July 5, 2014 by ricp

[babypuncher71 22]

I usually don't speak up on these issues, but people are being really stupid about their resistance to the global restrictions on rare loot. They all bleat "that encourages server hopping. That's bad!" like sheep. Why do people server hop? To find those obscure valuable items. Right now, that's an AKM or an M4. Those two sets of weapons are more responsible for server hopping than any other factor. But what if those two guns were globally restricted? What if their 500 copies were already gone? No amount of server hopping will get you what you want. There simply wouldn't be a point.

 

And then, instead, you see a fresh video of guy in server X with a M4. You want it, and you're willing to work a little. So you decide to play on that server to get it. However, you CAN'T server hop to get what you want. You HAVE to stay on server X to get what you want.

 

Think about it for half a moment fellas. Globally restricted rare items will *not* encourage "server hopping". Not in the way you mean it. All it means is that you might have to go to another server and invest TIME in that server. That is the opposite of server hopping.

 

Now don't get me wrong. Server hopping will not end unless they close the public hive. But it won't have anything to do with globally restricted rare loot. Period.

And its a double bladed sword tbh.....

If this happens the KOS will just increase like it has now because of the weapons being nutted to the point where its a joke..

Which i dont care but,there are going to massive amounts of KOS threads.....

[Legio23 82]

Because NVG's ruin the game. It's one of those situations where realism shouldn't be replicated in the virtual world. 

 

You can have military gear like heavy duty weapons that gives one player a big advantage over another, although both are on a 'level playing field' when it comes to the environment around them. Give one person NVG and that suddenly gives them such a massive advantage over the other that it is too much of an imbalance. 

 

I played the mod, a lot, before SA and the experience of the NVGs meant that you had to have them for any night time game play as they effectively turned the night time to daylight. Anyone without them were just cannon fodder unable to detect those around them while those had them saw everything. It ruined the night time game play and just turned night servers into green daylight ones.

 

In short, yes they exist in real life and yes I want DayZ as realistic as possible but there has to be artificial limits put into the game in order to maintain a certain level of game play - and before anyone says, "no it should be as realistic as real life", just remember that if you break your leg you can immediately "cure" it by applying a stick and cloth (or morphine) rather than having it set and wait for 6 months in game.

Simple solution make the battery life in the NVGs realistic too, I'm damned if I would use them constantly the batteries would just get chowed. Then make the batteries hard aquire.

Edited July 5, 2014 by Legio23

[rickyriot 1009]

Simple solution make the battery life in the NVGs realistic too, I'm damned if I would use them constantly the batteries would just get chowed. Then make the batteries hard aquire.

 

Batteries will never be rare as you spawn with them, people will just exploit (spawn in get killed, leave battery). Once there is a semi-permanent supply of batteries then that negates any limitation on power you set. 

 

If you were to perhaps make them like binoculars then you could have the situation where you couldn't move (much) or shoot while they are active then that might reduce their affect. It would mean you could have one person using them directing others who don't.

 

The problem is that NVGs will be like head torches (wearable) and possibly translated into gun optics, both of which will ruin the balance.

Edited July 5, 2014 by ricp

[Legio23 82]

Batteries will never be rare as you spawn with them, people will just exploit (spawn in get killed, leave battery). Once there is a semi-permanent supply of batteries then that negates any limitation on power you set. 

 

If you were to perhaps make them like binoculars then you could have the situation where you couldn't move (much) or shoot while they are active then that might reduce their affect. It would mean you could have one person using them directing others who don't.

 

The problem is that NVGs will be like head torches (wearable) and possibly translated into gun optics, both of which will ruin the balance.

Firstly I've never seen a set of NVGs using those types of battery and of course they would have to be specific to them, that kind of went without saying.

Most military NVGs are head or helmet mountable which leaves the arms free without a prob but unless  a weapon is accompagnied by a zeroed in IR then they're not much use as 'gun optics' and to be honest sighting with NVGs on is not evident at all as you cant use your red dot or iron sights to any degree its point in the general direction and shoot or use other methods of rudementary sighting. There are of course NVSs which are rifle or weapon mounted, same goes for civ pop versions those they are much less powerful or as net as the mil versions and most civ NVGs or monos don't come with any form of head gear or attachement. (In fact in a fair few countries it is illegal to possess NVGs that have a head mounting capacity, France for example)

 

Afraid we will have to totally disagree on this point as I find no serious reason to your arguementation bar you don't like them and you think that it ruins gameplay for you quite simply put.

 

And once again another thread gets turned around into an NVG pissing match.

Edited July 5, 2014 by Legio23

[SamualACarver 7]

I'm new to this game so I dont know how many of which item there should be out there but what they could do is give these items a lifespan of so many hours of use like in real life. All vehicles and parts being release with Global limits. Higher numbers for more real life common vehicles like a standard passenger car. Low numbers for vehicles like Helis and other military vehicles.

 

Like cars and helis and other vehicles they would all start missing certain parts that they need and it could be different for each vehicle. Like you may find one car that is missing some belts spark plug wires etc another missing tires with some of the better vehicles missing harder to get parts.  The same for helis and since helis are such premium items they would all start out missing a few common parts and at least one rare part but it would be different parts so that all helis werent missing the rotor as its rare part. One may be missing a rotor and another missing an important and rare engine part.

 

When they emplemented the vehicles a certain number of these different rare parts would be released and globally restricted. The parts could be initially released in phases. For example they release X number of rotors then a couple or few weeks later they release X more until they feel they have the right number out there.  Each of these parts would basically come with a timer on them with a random X number of hours of life for each part.  There wouldnt be a timer that Players could see or anything. For example you may find a rotor that has 100 hrs of life left or find one that has 50 hours of life left. You wouldnt know. Just like in real life. When you buy say an alternator for your car it basically comes with a timer on it because sooner or later it is going to break and you will need to buy another.  Once they make the initial release and have the number of those items out there they stop spawning them. Then every few weeks or so they release a few more. By that point some of the rotors from the initial release would have used up their lifespan and basically broke. If you had managed to get a working heli eventually the rotor fails and you will need to find a new one. Doing it like this would prevent real hardcore Players and Clans from basically hoarding up all of the rare parts. It would also prevent there being a million helis out there.

 

Here is an outline for how it could be emplemented. Like I said I dont know what amount of vehicles or parts is appropriate so I'm just going to use some random numbers.  Also this is an example of Helis missing rotors as their rare part. The same thing could be done with helis missing a different rare part and the same for other vehicles.  All vehiclee would also be missing some random more common parts and some interchangeable parts like tires.  So you could have a car with 2 different size tires different color doors ect.

 

Example:

Helis missing Rotors

1) Release 50 Helis missing Rotors as a Global limit.  They could release more over time to replace any that have been destroyed or as the Player base increases

2) At the same time release 25 Rotors (all with random number of hours life span maybe between 50-200)

3) 2 weeks later release 25 more rotors.

4) Release more Rotors to replace some of the initial Rotors that would have reached their lifespan. By

   A: They could either keep track of the number of working Rotors Globally (but I dont know if that is possible or practical) then release an appropriate number Globally.

   B: They could just wait for a few weeks when they know some of the Rotors would have reached their lifespan then release 5-10 more Globally.  Wait a few weeks and release some more.

5) Other parts on the Heli would also wear out over time so in order to keep your Heli flying you would need to periotically replace different parts.  Some parts more common others rare. You would have to do a maintenance schedule on your Heli but eventually it would just become worn out over time and not worth the effort to keep it running.  Maybe eventually the engine finally goes and is very hard to replace basically only being possible by pulling one from another Heli.

 

This same system could be applied to all vehicles and parts and would be very realistic.  It would also prevent some Players and Clans from hoarding all of the best vehicles or everyone having a Heli.  This way the vehicles and parts would be circulating around all of the servers and everyone one would get a chance to sometime get a nice vehicle. It would open up trading and give Players and Clans a reason to travel to other servers to acquire replacement parts. The parts and vehicles would also stay rare like they should.

 

[SaintJimmy 4]

Can't wait!

[rickyriot 1009]

Firstly I've never seen a set of NVGs using those types of battery and of course they would have to be specific to them, that kind of went without saying.

 

You are confusing real life with the game. It's clear the devs are happy to use non specific items for specific things, for example the ammunition, so it doesn't go "without saying". When battery powered optics have been discussed by the devs, at no point has there been a suggestion that it would be a different battery to the one used in the torch.

 

Most military NVGs are head or helmet mountable which leaves the arms free without a prob but unless  a weapon is accompagnied by a zeroed in IR then they're not much use as 'gun optics' and to be honest sighting with NVGs on is not evident at all as you cant use your red dot or iron sights to any degree its point in the general direction and shoot or use other methods of rudementary sighting. There are of course NVSs which are rifle or weapon mounted, same goes for civ pop versions those they are much less powerful or as net as the mil versions and most civ NVGs or monos don't come with any form of head gear or attachement. (In fact in a fair few countries it is illegal to possess NVGs that have a head mounting capacity, France for example)

 

I suppose the question I have to ask is whether you played the mod? The reason I ask is that this is clearly not how the mod worked. Is that the way they will be implemented in SA, who knows, but at present the mod is all we have to base these things on.

 

Afraid we will have to totally disagree on this point as I find no serious reason to your arguementation bar you don't like them and you think that it ruins gameplay for you quite simply put.

 

We do disagree, although I don't go around underlining words in an attempt to sound like a pissy schoolgirl. 

 

And once again another thread gets turned around into an NVG pissing match.

Yet you were the one who initiated it by complaining about people raising the idea NVGs should be rare? Can't have it both ways "old chap".

[Legio23 82]

It wasn't an attempt to sound like a 'pissy schoolgirl' it was to iterate that it is your point of view only and not one that is shared by everyone, I actually take insult to that and it just makes your arguementation sound weaker in my book. As for the ammo there is suitable difference between ammunition types and they are not generic ' assault rifle rounds' or ' hunting rifle rounds' there is disparity. And yes I did make a statement about people complaining about the NVGs as no thread seems to be without someone bringing it up as needing to be  'super rare' or unwanted item yet no one is pointing out a solution where they could be added to the game effectively as the way it stands with trying to keep it as realistic as possible. Making them super rare is not an agruement that I agree with, on the other hand to have them with a very limited battery life and specific battery type would suit me fine. The fact is NVGs are around, they are used frequently no longer by just the military but by civilians as well so why should they be so restricted in the game?

 

You have your opinion and I have mine we shall see what the devs come up with and have to deal with it each in our own way.

[rickyriot 1009]

It wasn't an attempt to sound like a 'pissy schoolgirl' ..

It might not have intended to look that way, but that is certainly how it came across. However if you say it wasn't meant to then fair enough, I'll accept that, but as a future note underlining words is the Internet equivalent of emphasis making it 'sound' like you were being sarcastic.

 

The fact is NVGs are around, they are used frequently no longer by just the military but by civilians as well so why should they be so restricted in the game?

I don't dispute this at all. I think there has to be an artificial limiter between real life and the game though. Now, personally I want to see DayZ as realistic as possible and you may or may not agree with that, however we will both agree that there has to be a dividing line. For example, in real life you wouldn't need to eat or drink as regularly or sticking a bandage over something wouldn't solve a bullet wound. NVGs come in as one of those things I feel need to be tempered in order to fit within the gameplay even if this means it deviates from the realities of real life.

 

You have your opinion and I have mine we shall see what the devs come up with and have to deal with it each in our own way.

We do. I started a poll about this a while back and the majority of people thought that they either shouldn't be included in the game or if they were they should be rare or limited in some way. I am personally in the "not at all" camp but that is purely down to my experiences of using it in the mod. It effected the game so wildly between the haves and have not's that it ruined the gameplay for any night server. I am unsure if you played the mod or not, but if you did you would understand where my comments were coming from.

 

Ultimately I trust the devs to deliver a game that will be balanced, I just hope they take into consideration previous experience.

..

[Legio23 82]

I also want to see it as realistic as possible hence my standpoint on this and why I suggested therefore making batteries specific to the item in question, giving realistic battery time and making the batteries that much harder to come across. I have used the NVGs and they are innacurate from the real thing which I used for many years and still do now. The only optics that are getting close to that are gen 3+ and 4s. If you came across a pair of soviet made gen 2s (which considering the location of the game is the most proabable) believe me they won't give you much depth of vision, gen 2s in a wooded area might if your lucky give you a couple of dozen feet of vision where you might see something lurking around, thats the kind of thing I'm hoping will be acheived in this game.

[sai (DayZ) 137]

At the end of the day, the game should be fully accessible to all players, group or solo. Limiting features of the game to certain groups is always a bad thing. Making helis and other things so rare is a pointless thing to do, you may as well not have them in the game. And GAME is the key word here. It's meant to be fun, not platform for big clans to wave their e dicks around and raid servers. 

 

It's simple logic, I shouldn't have to state it, if the devs know what they are doing, hahaha, this will not end up in the final version of the game. Server hopping is never good for any reason.  

[Deathlove 2286]

How is server hoping to get gear even survival related? I thought the idea was to STICK to one server and try to tough things out. Lock the characters to servers NOT gear and items.

 

So can any of you explain how were going to explain how server hoping is a FUNDAMENTAL part of the lore of Dayz now? What, did we gain access to some unknown Star trek or Sliders worm hole tech in game suddenly? You know its going to kill the lore as well as the survival aspect to.

[Deathlove 2286]

At the end of the day, the game should be fully accessible to all players, group or solo. Limiting features of the game to certain groups is always a bad thing. Making helis and other things so rare is a pointless thing to do, you may as well not have them in the game. And GAME is the key word here. It's meant to be fun, not platform for big clans to wave their e dicks around and raid servers. 

 

It's simple logic, I shouldn't have to state it, if the devs know what they are doing, hahaha, this will not end up in the final version of the game. Server hopping is never good for any reason.  

No man you got it all wrong we have magical powers where we can open up time and space to travel to alternative planes of existence to get what we need. It just makes all the sense! 83

[gibonez 3633]

At the end of the day, the game should be fully accessible to all players, group or solo. Limiting features of the game to certain groups is always a bad thing. Making helis and other things so rare is a pointless thing to do, you may as well not have them in the game. And GAME is the key word here. It's meant to be fun, not platform for big clans to wave their e dicks around and raid servers. 

 

It's simple logic, I shouldn't have to state it, if the devs know what they are doing, hahaha, this will not end up in the final version of the game. Server hopping is never good for any reason.  

 

Everything the devs have been doing has been leading up to this. This is probably their biggest challenge when making dayz you know it will be in the final version.

[bain 23]

Wow.

 

How is server hoping to get gear even survival related? I thought the idea was to STICK to one server and try to tough things out. Lock the characters to servers NOT gear and items.

 

So can any of you explain how were going to explain how server hoping is a FUNDAMENTAL part of the lore of Dayz now? What, did we gain access to some unknown Star trek or Sliders worm hole tech in game suddenly? You know its going to kill the lore as well as the survival aspect to.

Non-globally restricted gear (say, nvgs) = people server hopping to get them.

globally restricted gear = people can't server hop to get them.

 

End result: people are already server hopping for gear. This literally won't change the frequency at all.

 

No man you got it all wrong we have magical powers where we can open up time and space to travel to alternative planes of existence to get what we need. It just makes all the sense! 83

You don't need any of the things proposed for globally restricted loot.

 

Your pet issue is closing the public hive and/or opening private hives. That will address server hopping. Not this issue. Move along, sir.

[Gimpo 2]

This game sounds worse as time goes by.

Whens the loot going to respawn ffs its july ?