Ammo Calibration : Poll & Discussion

[Katana67 2907]

It seems pretty unclear if whether or not this is the intended goal of ammunition. Nonetheless, now in the alpha state is the time to whine or protest distastes with the games development. Also that is pretty disappointing about the VSS, as it also means no Groza or VAL.

 

Well the VSS is essentially a Val (hence why they aren't pressing to add 9x39, as it's only really used in two weapon families [i.e. the Val and the 9A-91, which are functionally/aesthetically similar anyhow, so it's really only one weapon]), and the Groza can be chambered in 7.62x39 (a caliber already in-game) so I wouldn't be too worried about it. Plus, there are other bullpup AKs out there.

 

I agree that it's the time to discuss this type of stuff, but too often do people just say "this is unrealistic, WTF devs?" without actually articulating an argument relevant to DayZ's gameplay, to buttress what they're saying. I'm more than willing to discuss the pros and cons of this approach, but most "realism" folks are pretty uncompromising/unreasonable when it comes to this type of thing.

 

Somewhat counter-intuitively, most "realistic" suggestions can be argued to have beneficial effects on gameplay. But, people seldom actually MAKE that argument successfully... much less even attempt to in the first place.

Edited May 30, 2014 by Katana67

[hannibaldaplaya 1095]

This is both fucktarded and dissappointing...

[spartacusrex 88]

I care about realistic Caliber choices.

[hombrecz 832]

Here's a good scenario.

"Oh boy! I finally found .22 ammo for my Sporter! Can't wait to use this!

Wait a second...

Shit. This ammo is 2 nanometers too big to fit into the sporter. Oh well. Gotta hope I'm luckier."

A larger amount of ammo types incorporates more luck-based looting into the game. And, last I checked, the DayZ community hates luck. I know for a fact that I do. Especially when my virtual life is on it.

 

Or you just need to adapt, carry ammo what you find and then use first gun that you have ammo for?

Come on, bastardising calibers IS NOT what DayZ mod taught us, is it?

[gibonez 3633]

Players will loose their shit if they continue with this unrealistic crap.

What possible benefit could the game have from keeping a low number of calibers?

Edited May 30, 2014 by gibonez

[Daemonkid 493]

This is pure bullshit. Laziness at it's fucking finest. What a load of shite. I don't want plenty of calibers for different weapons for REALISM reasons. I want many different calibers for GAMEPLAY REASONS. For fucksakes. It makes ammo actually valuable. Sure you may find ammunition, but is it the right ammo for the gun you have now? What if you find say, 7.62x39 but can't find a weapon that takes the ammunition. But now you find a mosin, and have generic 7.62 if there was no distinction made it makes finding ammo almost redundant because ammo is incredibly abundant as is, if they made distinctions within each ammo type, it adds another layers to looting. Trying and praying for the right ammo type.

[pycco 38]

http://forums.dayzgame.com/index.php?/topic/195705-no-specialized-cartridges-torchia-tweet/

 

I made a lengthy thread about this subject already.

 

The quote that I used (in the OP) states that it's "inefficient to add it [9x39 and the VSS] in with the current loot sys."

 

The issue for me, isn't necessarily with the right weapons using the right calibers (i.e. realism). It's with weapons using more SPECIFIC calibers, as to differentiate them, and to allow the developers to actually balance the ammunition rarity. Vice being forced to make 7.62x51 common, because it's used in their low-tier weapons, even though it's also used in so-called "high-end" weaponry.

 

i'm with him, it will make it not matter what you find just that much more. loot is already to easy to come by for an apocalypse with the cars rusting badly(its been a while since the fall of man). will my rifle be able to shoot arrows or bolts then?<---- is how crazy this universal rounds sounds to me.

Edited May 30, 2014 by pycco

[Daemonkid 493]

Most of the "Stereotypical" DayZ players only want the game to be near impossible. I agree with your viewpoint. Games were made to entertain, not to challenge last I checked. At least, that was the philosophy when gaming became mainstream.

Uhm. DayZ was popular BECAUSE of the challenge. My god people like you are ruining the beautiful thing DayZ once was. It was always about the challenge, DayZ moniker was the ANTI-GAME. Not cater to the lowest fucking denominator.

 

That's why hardcore fans are getting irritated we were promised a authentic, gritty, difficult and unforgiving zombie apocalypse survival sandbox  yet all we've got right now is a streamlined, open world deathmatch.

[Powell (DayZ) 734]

I think theres quite the difference between 5.45 and 5.56...

 

I'd like to see more variety 

[Katana67 2907]

I think theres quite the difference between 5.45 and 5.56...

 

I'd like to see more variety 

 

I agree, and I'm not entirely sure why they think it's a good thing to have the "lowest number of calibers spawning."

 

Although I do sort of think 5.45x39 isn't necessarily needed now, as we've got 7.62x39 and pretty much every 5.45x39 weapon has a 7.62x39 analog... the point is that by including both 5.56x45 and 5.45x39, they can appease the "realism" folks AND provide for a more diverse weapon/ammunition rarity/commonality approach by making 5.56x45 rarer and 5.45x39 more common (although, the same thing could be done with 5.56x45 and 7.62x39 that we already have).

 

With 7.62x54R, the same thing applies. They can make the SVD and Mosin more common (by comparison to other weapons, such as a hypothetical high-end battle rifle/DMR or sniper rifle) by adding a distinct caliber. That way, they don't have to make 7.62x51 super common, and can make it rarer in order to justify the benefits in using a rarer, perhaps modular high-end weapon.

 

But, with that said, I certainly understand why it's simpler to do what they're doing, and don't fault them for it as if it's ruining DayZ as a whole.

Edited May 30, 2014 by Katana67

[gibonez 3633]

Uhm. DayZ was popular BECAUSE of the challenge. My god people like you are ruining the beautiful thing DayZ once was. It was always about the challenge, DayZ moniker was the ANTI-GAME. Not cater to the lowest fucking denominator.

That's why hardcore fans are getting irritated we were promised a authentic, gritty, difficult and unforgiving zombie apocalypse survival sandbox yet all we've got right now is a streamlined, open world deathmatch.

Yup we all jumped on early access expecting more of the mod plus engine enhancements. We never got thst we got a pathetic streamlined mess.

No sense of direction, no realism, no authenticity.

[p4triot 207]

If they gonna add all the calibers in the world they shold also add all the diseases, all types of poop (as someone already stated xD), all type of clothes, all the bones in the human body plus all type of fractures for each, etc etc etc.

 

I think having all the similar calibers grouped is a good idea, im the one not giving a crap about it. I would give a crap if you just would find ammo boxes magically reloading all the weapons, or even grenades, as most fps out there. But having to take in count some pistols use small calibers (22 short) while others uses medium caliber  (9mm/.45) or having 5.56, .338 and .50 BMG as different types of ammo is realistic enough for me. Same goes for injuries, taking in count I can break my leg is something I dont have to worry in most games and I do have in this one, this is what makes it special. I dont care if character always breaks the same leg, always bandages the same wound, or whatever.

 

 

Most of the "Stereotypical" DayZ players only want the game to be near impossible. I agree with your viewpoint. Games were made to entertain, not to challenge last I checked. At least, that was the philosophy when gaming became mainstream.

 

Games where meant to entertain while challenging you. Thats what made them different from any other form of art.

 

 

[pycco 38]

Yup we all jumped on early access expecting more of the mod plus engine enhancements. We never got thst we got a pathetic streamlined mess.

No sense of direction, no realism, no authenticity.

hopefully the its alpha is the reason not design choice.

 

 

Most of the "Stereotypical" DayZ players only want the game to be near impossible. I agree with your viewpoint. Games were made to entertain, not to challenge last I checked. At least, that was the philosophy when gaming became mainstream.

 

dear god i hope this is not how this game goes, i want this game to be so hard i get excited about living even a short while. those moments of holy shi* i just lived though that. are what is going to make this game stand out and not another infestation story.

Edited May 30, 2014 by pycco

[odin_lowe 3686]

Really? Is it so much to ask for to code different types of ammunition? This isn't some crazy request that has never been done before in the history of video gaming. It makes no sense to add a level of detail such as blood types and heart attacks and try to go the lazy route of having most guns use the same ammo even if their real world counter parts don't. Even your sig that is a quote from Mr. Torchia reads: "gun shops in Russia and in Czech Republic and the massive variety of guns and ammo you can find there.". This game started as a mod from ArmA 2, a game which the devs went to great lengths add depth and realism in the firearms dept. It is very disappointing that the Devs want to try to take the Call of Duty route when it comes to firearms realism.

CoD route??  :D

 

At least in DayZ you can't jump-360-no-scope-kill-headshot every 30 seconds...

 

There's already enough variants of ammo and weapons, and they'll continue making more anyway. I'd love to have 5.7 ammo and a P90, but this is supposed to be a survival zombie apocalypse game, and now it's turning more and more into some death match pvp fps tps game. There's already a ton of those games, we don't need more honestly.

 

In the end, I'm glad a have a single player DayZ 2018 mod to enjoy some quality apocalypse time....

 

P.S.: I can't see why so many complain about this and that, when what they complain about is already in either ArmA 2 or ArmA 3 with all them mods out there. You already have everything, and you want more. Consumption society. Failed mankind.  :(

[BeefBacon 1185]

I couldn't care less. An M4 could shoot the same 88mm shells as a derringer and it wouldn't phase me. I don't want to have to differentiate between 5.56mm, 5.57mm, 5.58mm and beyond just because in real life Gun A uses a bullet that his half a micrometer larger than what Gun B uses.

 

Of course I don't think the game should be streamlined too much. I want to have to actually work for my weapons and ammo, but I don't want to have to be a weapons expert or have to drag 20 near-identical ammo types to a gun I found just to find the one that fits.

[PhillyT 554]

I think it is fine.  Limiting the number of calibers while still giving people a little bit of variety in fire arms is fine.  The game can't be realistic anyway. 7.62x51 is essentially the same as a 7.62x54 and a .308.  5.45 is a fair bit different than the 5.56, but in terms of effectiveness in reality and game, it is a wash.

[jukaga 271]

We're still getting different types of poop, right?

Cartman is already reviewing swatches for implementation.

[king_of_the_beans 92]

I know a thing or two about calibers and guns but the majority of people don't. If I didn't know anything I wouldn't want to go into a wiki and try to figure out what caliber goes with what, it is one of those things that if implemented will be unnecessary. This isn't ARMA III or II, if I wanted a military simulator with accurate representations of guns their calibers and anything military related I would play those games. Also when the development team takes the time to code and model a new caliber, it isn't that long but it does take time away from the development of things we really want. etc: cars and physics.

[calabam 55]

This sounds about right to many types of ammo can only be bad there has to be a balance and this is definitely it  , want to drive away a huge portion of the player base implement all the different types of ammo .

[Daemonkid 493]

God damn. Some of these replies. Smh. Gibonez, our crusade is for naught, for all these lames are are more vocal...

[PhillyT 554]

I know a thing or two about calibers and guns but the majority of people don't. If I didn't know anything I wouldn't want to go into a wiki and try to figure out what caliber goes with what, it is one of those things that if implemented will be unnecessary. This isn't ARMA III or II, if I wanted a military simulator with accurate representations of guns their calibers and anything military related I would play those games. Also when the development team takes the time to code and model a new caliber, it isn't that long but it does take time away from the development of things we really want. etc: cars and physics.

 

Other potential issues are that finding ammo for many guns would be impossible or very difficult, meaning we would see those guns left unused.

 

But really, the fact that several guns are even present in the game (B95, magnum, 1911 engraved, M4) stretches believability.  Add the fact that ammo is just laying around and unaffected by the elements and you have lots of oddities.

[PhillyT 554]

God damn. Some of these replies. Smh. Gibonez, our crusade is for naught, for all these lames are are more vocal...

 

What crusade?  We are taking about a non-AAA PC game made by a small niche publisher using a low quality engine.

[blazinone 72]

They have a point. Keep the number of types limited to preserve balance.

 

More ammo types = more ammo spawns = players swimming in ammo (to ensure players can find enough of the type they need)

 

Fewer ammo types = fewer ammo spawns = a good balance of realism (ammo should be available but not plentiful)

[stielhandgranate 480]

I couldn't care less. An M4 could shoot the same 88mm shells as a derringer and it wouldn't phase me. I don't want to have to differentiate between 5.56mm, 5.57mm, 5.58mm and beyond just because in real life Gun A uses a bullet that his half a micrometer larger than what Gun B uses.

 

 

There is no such thing as 5.57, or 5.58. How about we have ammo that exists to complement the gun that uses it. Or we can go super easy baby mode and have shotguns,rilfes and pistols take the same generic ammo box and lets get rid of that nonsense with having to find a magazine for your magazine fed weapon.

[pilgrim* 3514]

Well I'm sorry you disagree, but Dean Hall stated that DayZ was to be a game based in realism, so if that means you have to shift though a few more loot piles before you can run to the coast and kill fresh spawns wearing tee shirts and jeans than so be it.

 

does this mean when you break a leg in the game you walk round with crutches for 3 months ?

 

hey, and morphine doesn't cure a broken leg in the real word - don't try it !