Arma3 Third person fix mod...thoughts?

[dallas 5195]

"hardcore"

"casual"

"real"

[gibonez 3633]

"hardcore"

"casual"

"real"

 

All should have the mod regardless of settings.

 

The exploit should not exist in any form of the game.

[dallas 5195]

Still not an exploit.

[gibonez 3633]

Still not an exploit.

 

Then perhaps it is a mistake or a detriment that can now be solved.

[TheScruffyBandit 382]

Still not an exploit.

It is, you choosing not to admit it doesn't change that fact. 3pping your camera above walls to get a better view of an area that would otherwise be outside of your field of view is no less of an exploit than leaning into walls to see through them.

 

Both are abusing the flawed view system to gain information that you would normally not be able to.

Edited April 1, 2014 by TheScruffyBandit

[Jex 1104]

You're simply failing to acknowledge a very popular feature of ArmA/DayZ. This game has simply not been designed as a first person experience, it can be played in 1PP, but the experience isn't very smooth, because the game was designed to embrace several view point perspectives. 

 

Operation Flashpoint was made on the back of VBS which was sold to the US marines as a virtual training program. From that we had Armed Assault after Codemasters decided to be a bunch of dicks. The 3rd person view was implemented to enable commanding of the AI troops under your command easier. As Dayz has no AI, we no longer need the 3rd person view.

 

The clunky feeling of Arma is to simulate how things move in reality. This means that ur not a camera floating above the earth with zero gravity and can't spin 360 degrees in under half a second. Granted this makes for a less smooth experience and I personally don't think it works that well in game but I barely notice it anymore and it's improved since OFP days which would drive you up the wall at times.

[Jex 1104]

It is, you choosing not to admit it doesn't change that fact. 3pping your camera above walls to get a better view of an area that would otherwise be outside of your field of view is no less of an exploit than leaning into walls to see through them.

 

Both are abusing the flawed view system to gain information that you would normally not be able to.

 

I would love to see the argument on how you are able to see over a wall your stood behind and it not be an exploit. Let me try....

 

I'm behind the wall, or I'm outside a door. To look around the wall or look through the door I need to move my body. Since I am a person on game, I can look down at my body and see myself, I must conclude that this isn't really my real body since I spend most of it astral projecting and having an out of body experience. Since I am L337 at Astral Projection, it is not an exploit because it's my astral self that's doing it, not my actual body. 

[Weedz 1105]

I would love to see the argument on how you are able to see over a wall your stood behind and it not be an exploit. Let me try....

 

I'm behind the wall, or I'm outside a door. To look around the wall or look through the door I need to move my body. Since I am a person on game, I can look down at my body and see myself, I must conclude that this isn't really my real body since I spend most of it astral projecting and having an out of body experience. Since I am L337 at Astral Projection, it is not an exploit because it's my astral self that's doing it, not my actual body. 

You didn't know that? It's right on page 1 of the game manual ....

[Judopunch 523]

There is a major difference between glitching (seeing through walls) and pivoting the camera (the point of the discussion). The glitch should be fixed regardless of the mode or camera changes. And does not require the proposed change to 3pp, and Im sure the Team is already working on something to address the glitch.

 

Im still waiting for someone to discuss why limiting the camera's motion is not a better solution.

[Martmital 436]

If the 1PP cry babies spent more time in game rather then spending it on the forums, maybe they would have full servers.

[gibonez 3633]

There is a major difference between glitching (seeing through walls) and pivoting the camera (the point of the discussion). The glitch should be fixed regardless of the mode or camera changes. And does not require the proposed change to 3pp, and Im sure the Team is already working on something to address the glitch.

 

Im still waiting for someone to discuss why limiting the camera's motion is not a better solution.

 

The mod might be the solution to fixing this glitch.

 

Mod in theory should eliminate this from both modes since it detects where the players head is within a building so it blocks anything on the outside from rendering.

 

As to why limiting the camera is not a better solution my guess would just be that even if they severly restrict the camera there will still be methods to use it to see around corners.

 

The mod is the only surfire way of stopping this.

 

Although restricting camera + mod works best.

[AzrailCross 48]

Personally I play both Normal & Hardcore, normal I only log on with my friends while Hardcore I just find good people to join on the fly. 

 

I have to admit the advantages of 3PP are rather .. fun dulling in my opinion, I have no reason to go in first person and 'peer' around a door in normal mode, infact it's just a bad idea when I can switch to 3PP and see way more, in the safety of being behind a wall. 

 

So IMO? Yes I'd love the "Fourth Wall" be incorporated into DayZ Standalone but with a little more professionalism and streamlining it; maybe in a way that anything that's out of sight of your character be blacked out so you *know* what you can't see, and don't have to assume; wouldn't hurt those that like to stay in 3PP and doesn't give 3PP any advantages over 1PP. The only reason anyone could complain about that is LIKING having that advantage.

 

There is no if and's or but's about it. I hate the massively unrealistic nature of 3PP being able to see way more than is humanly possible and it forces me to use it if I want to be on the same playing field as everyone else, which isn't allowing me to play 'how I want' without putting me at a disadvantage. Sometimes I like being in 3PP sometimes I like being in 1PP just purely depending on my mood, shouldn't feel like I'm gimping myself by playing one or the other.

Edited April 1, 2014 by AzrailCross

[Weedz 1105]

There is a major difference between glitching (seeing through walls) and pivoting the camera (the point of the discussion). The glitch should be fixed regardless of the mode or camera changes. And does not require the proposed change to 3pp, and Im sure the Team is already working on something to address the glitch.

 

Im still waiting for someone to discuss why limiting the camera's motion is not a better solution.

If you were to make a thread right now about limiting the 3pp camera movement, or anything else that makes it harder to magically see around corners and over 12 foot walls, the same people acting like this mod would be the end of the world would be making the same replies in that thread as they are here.

 

They don't have a problem with how the mod works they have a problem with people trying to fix their favorite exploit.

[Judopunch 523]

If you were to make a thread right now about limiting the 3pp camera movement, or anything else that makes it harder to magically see around corners and over 12 foot walls, the same people acting like this mod would be the end of the world would be making the same replies in that thread as they are here.

 

They don't have a problem with how the mod works they have a problem with people trying to fix their favorite exploit.

 

I guess the difference between the flavor that people are looking for and what we have right now are a bit different. No one has yet sold me on a good reason not to play in 1pp anyways. If I had my way I would have made it so that there was never an option for 3pp. I have yet to have anyone give me a compelling reason why 3pp is more fun than 1pp.

[Valadain 270]

It's not an exploit. It isn't a glitch or a bug. These things have real definitions. A feature working as it was intended when programmed does not meet those definitions.

 

It is a mechanic in the game. One you don't like, which is perfectly fair. But you don't need to falsely label it to justify the removal. These incorrect designations are being used only to be able to denigrate a section of players, playing the game by using a mechanic as intended, even if you don't like it.

 

I don't like it either, but I like the suggested fix less right now for two primary reasons. One, it is likely not going to work as expected with the current problems of the server not knowing where one player is much of the time, let alone the relative position of two players with regards to obscuring obstacles. Two, because I firmly believe that implementing and then perpetually fixing the mechanic will turn into a development sink-hole.

 

Get people to play hard core. That is the answer.

[Weedz 1105]

It's not an exploit. It isn't a glitch or a bug. These things have real definitions. A feature working as it was intended when programmed does not meet those definitions.

 

It is not even close to an intended feature. The only reason it is even in the engine was to make it easier to control AI in Co-op missions which was what the game was made for. They never had 3pp PvP in mind when they added this "feature".

[Valadain 270]

It is not even close to an intended feature. The only reason it is even in the engine was to make it easier to control AI in Co-op missions which was what the game was made for. They never had 3pp PvP in mind when they added this "feature".

 

They added it in, with the intention of it working the way it does. Then it was also included, as it was originally designed, in Stand Alone. We know it can be shut off, but it wasn't. Intentionally.

 

I'm not saying that you don't like how it works. I'm not saying that Stand Alone won't change how it works. I'm saying though, it is working as it was designed. It is not an exploit or a bug. It is how the mechanic was intended to work.

[cels 43]

I guess the difference between the flavor that people are looking for and what we have right now are a bit different. No one has yet sold me on a good reason not to play in 1pp anyways. If I had my way I would have made it so that there was never an option for 3pp. I have yet to have anyone give me a compelling reason why 3pp is more fun than 1pp.

 

You should play in any view you want to play in.. I do think people should try both to see what they like depending on what aspect of gameplay they are involved in, but whats fun is a matter of opinion.

 

I have yet to see a compelling reason to only have 1pp besides for combat.. How I play on normal servers, that could end up being only 30 minutes if not less in 4 hours of playing.. And thats if the person I run into actually wants to kill me :P Yeah it sucks If in the small chance it was someone who used 3rd person in a shafty way to kill me, but its rare... Should it still be fixed though? I think so..

 

 

To note, I enjoy both hardcore and normal servers.. Very little time on hardcore though since im pretty much there only to run around cities looking for others, which is rare to find anyone it seems nowadays...Airfields just seems like mosins are all along the treelines waiting for someone across the airfield to move..

Edited April 2, 2014 by cels

[Jex 1104]

They added it in, with the intention of it working the way it does. Then it was also included, as it was originally designed, in Stand Alone. We know it can be shut off, but it wasn't. Intentionally.

 

I'm not saying that you don't like how it works. I'm not saying that Stand Alone won't change how it works. I'm saying though, it is working as it was designed. It is not an exploit or a bug. It is how the mechanic was intended to work.

 

It was never "included" in the SA - it wasn't taken out of it is actually the truth and that's a big difference. The mod fix is fine btw and it won't turn into a dev sinkhole - some random guy just made it you don't think BI who wrote the engine don't know their own engine and couldn't implement this?

 

This is the fix that is needed for the game. If your AV cannot physically see other players, zombies or animals then they don't draw for you until you expose yourself to be seen by them too.

[frozenjaws 69]

Man i would not enjoy this at all, people freaking out about 3rd person, go play hardcore.. its THAT simple, besides people and zombies randomly appearing from nowhere after you've cleared a corner would be multiplied tenfold by this, and it would be easily exploitable!! just imagine standing at the side of a building tapping Q or E to see out for a split second, now just look for things popping in and out of view, thats a potential player, much more visible than before.. Summary ITS A BAD IDEA:

[zeroy 240]

I don't much care either way. An advantage that everyone has isn't an advantage.

 

This. The script, while a good idea, makes for even more problems or un-realistic approach.

[gibonez 3633]

This. The script, while a good idea, makes for even more problems or un-realistic approach.

 

Not if you combine the script with a better camera position and really smooth out the script to avoid any jank associated with it.

 

 

Even so at the end of the day I rather have a little unrealism when it comes to this feature since it would improve the gameplay soo much.

[gibonez 3633]

Man i would not enjoy this at all, people freaking out about 3rd person, go play hardcore.. its THAT simple, besides people and zombies randomly appearing from nowhere after you've cleared a corner would be multiplied tenfold by this, and it would be easily exploitable!! just imagine standing at the side of a building tapping Q or E to see out for a split second, now just look for things popping in and out of view, thats a potential player, much more visible than before.. Summary ITS A BAD IDEA:

 

Fade system.

 

Longer distances, a longer fade in system is put in.

 

So no this would not be a problem.

[zeroy 240]

Not if you combine the script with a better camera position and really smooth out the script to avoid any jank associated with it.

 

 

Even so at the end of the day I rather have a little unrealism when it comes to this feature since it would improve the gameplay soo much.

 

Not displaying players/NPC while displaying everything else is a bad idea, it just doesnt make anysense. And as said by other you get the problem of popping in view, possible lag, its just not workable imo.

[dallas 5195]

Operation Flashpoint was made on the back of VBS which was sold to the US marines as a virtual training program. From that we had Armed Assault after Codemasters decided to be a bunch of dicks. The 3rd person view was implemented to enable commanding of the AI troops under your command easier. As Dayz has no AI, we no longer need the 3rd person view.

 

The clunky feeling of Arma is to simulate how things move in reality. This means that ur not a camera floating above the earth with zero gravity and can't spin 360 degrees in under half a second. Granted this makes for a less smooth experience and I personally don't think it works that well in game but I barely notice it anymore and it's improved since OFP days which would drive you up the wall at times.

No, The military grade simulation VBS is derived from the recreational entertainment game OFP.

 

3rd person view wasn't implemented to command AI units, tactical view was. OFP, Armed Assault, ArmA 2, ArmA 3 all offered first person view, third person view and tactical view. DayZ mod and DayZ Standalone only offered first and third person perspective.

 

And because of BI's approach to the all encompassing camera design and animations, first person view was never a smooth experience and for some it was even an unenjoyable experience. However third person view came with certain tactical disadvantages, which is why BI allowed individual server admins the ability to enforce, whatever difficulty settings, they preferred.

 

Me, I don't like crosshairs, but third person. Shacktac dislike third person, but like crosshairs and teamsized radars and ArmA and DayZ allows all of us to enjoy our differences.

Edited April 2, 2014 by Dallas