September Round-up: DevBlog, #DayZDaily, PAX, GDC China

[CapricornOne (DayZ) 379]

I am not making this up .. ARMA 3 has been released and it still has a lot of problems .. look it up.

 

So has the whole of Bethesda's back-catalogue (Skyrim, Fallout, etc.) and a plethora of other top AAA titles...

 

What's your point?  :huh: 

 

Development of both Arma 3 and DayZ will continue well beyond "release".

Edited September 29, 2013 by CapricornOne

[CapricornOne (DayZ) 379]

i can defenitly not understand why the f. AI is at zero after one year of developement.

 

Then you completely fail to understand the fundamentals of game development. The order in which tasks are completed are not necessarily dependent on priority. It's only common sense that "small" features such as crafting and weapon attachments should take less time...Hence their inclusion and focus during past devblogs.

 

The zombie AI could not be worked on (beyond what was initially done with the improved pathfinding) until the network issues were solved and tested. That's a fact whether you like it or not...

[Katana67 2907]

This (the type of "conversation" above) is still happening? Really?

[Private Evans 1303]

This (the type of "conversation" above) is still happening? Really?

 

 

Yap but it's not not really entertaining these days. Maybe we should ask Rhino Whino to return...good old days where we were called "fan girls" at least  :P

Edited September 30, 2013 by Private Evans

[BongomanConk 38]

Phahahaha. Impatient after only one year? You must be hurting bad! It takes teams of people over 4 years to make an 8 hour single player game, and you're whining because it's taken them a year to make a 255KM squared map, thousands of items, weapons, sounds, environments, heavily tweak an engine, plan new features and implement them and make a server to client protocol that allows optimised performance. BUT they have the cheek to not release it to alpha yet?

 

My heart bleeds for you. It really does.

 

 

Uhhhh.... You claim you follow the progress, yet you say this idiotic piece? The zombie AI they were working on (which they thought would be sufficient) just doesn't work how they would like/had planned it to. They had pathing errors left and right, they had bad performances from the Zombies, they had glitchy AI any way you look at it. So they plan on scrapping their current work which puts them back at - surprise surprise - 0% whilst they propose and impliment a new line of Zombie AI. 

 

You really are a negative Nancy aren't you?

see your are blind and not listening. Maybe they need 4 years of developement to produce a story, an engine, whatever, A WHOLE GAME.(with few hours singleplayer-expirience indeed)

Dean himself said all the map improvements, to a map which already was there and didnt need to be created, whatever u want to claim here, all the items, crafting whatever is not the reason for not releasing the Alpha.

i´m not demanding any of these terms to be complete in any way. but i´m demanding an alpha of a tweaked existing engine after one year, yes, i really does.

 

to the AI:

i know exactly that he wasnt pleased with the progress/behaviour of zombie AI and rewrites it from scratch, but u know what? he/team needs months to realize the zombies are still buggy,glitchy,jumpy crap when setting a few new patchfinding points.

You know its the way this whole thing happens. There was this video in the beginng where Dean was selling the zombie AI-progression as huge improvement, where we saw the zombie runnig to his new waypoints following the player. i just thought:"well doesnt look too different for me, but hey he said theres still lot of work with it so it may get good" and the forums were full of this crap "wuhu nice Dean. keep it up we love you. yeah. i want a child with you."

 

and what happens then? he throws the "great improvements" away and starts from scratch? there´s something that doesnt match for me, and angers me.

[jason_h44@hotmail.com 313]

omg, Bongo im just just not look at this thread now so i dont see you trolling...improvements were not that great so they have started from scratch to make them great!

 

well, good luck guys ill come back when theres less trolling :D

[BongomanConk 38]

omg, Bongo im just just not look at this thread now so i dont see you trolling...improvements were not that great so they have started from scratch to make them great!

 

well, good luck guys ill come back when theres less trolling :D

its my honest opinion. im not trying to troll in any way. i´m giving facts and tell you why i feel that way, dont think thats trolling. i just cant understand you guys beeing that blind, not open for argmunets and then coming with the standard things: "we want the game to be good, game developement takes time" loosing the sense of reality and being able to refelct objectively what has been said by the developers and what has been done by them until now.

starting at 15:46 Dean is using PAST TENSE, "was,has been issue, huge performance improvement" and then 2 months later: oh doesnt work out need to rework? great.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mlm_djJe708

Edited September 30, 2013 by BongomanConk

[sabre05 351]

see YOU'RE/ YOU ARE blind.... (blah blah blah)

 

We're not blind. We understand that the game has suffered setbacks and perhaps things haven't gone to our likings. But what can we do about it? Nothing. Except cry like a 2 year old girl having a temper tantrum, and where does that get us? Nowhere except for people laughing at us and some other 2 year old girls agreeing with us.

 

Do you know why game developers always say things like "INNOVATIVE!" "Game changing" and all that shit? It's to sell their games, to make people interested. Imaging. Just imagine for one second Dean were to go on Twitter and say "Rocket2Guns - DayZ is fucking stupid, don't waste your money. I've wasted my time." Who the fuck would want to play it then? He is trying to peak our interests in teasers whilst he/they still work on the game.

 

Throw your toys out of the pram by all means. Just don't look so fucking stupid whilst you do it.

[jason_h44@hotmail.com 313]

We're not blind. We understand that the game has suffered setbacks and perhaps things haven't gone to our likings. But what can we do about it? Nothing. Except cry like a 2 year old girl having a temper tantrum, and where does that get us? Nowhere except for people laughing at us and some other 2 year old girls agreeing with us.

 

Do you know why game developers always say things like "INNOVATIVE!" "Game changing" and all that shit? It's to sell their games, to make people interested. Imaging. Just imagine for one second Dean were to go on Twitter and say "Rocket2Guns - DayZ is fucking stupid, don't waste your money. I've wasted my time." Who the fuck would want to play it then? He is trying to peak our interests in teasers whilst he/they still work on the game.

 

Throw your toys out of the pram by all means. Just don't look so fucking stupid whilst you do it.

 

you have all my beans sabre :P

[St. Jimmy 1631]

its my honest opinion. im not trying to troll in any way. i´m giving facts and tell you why i feel that way, dont think thats trolling. i just cant understand you guys beeing that blind, not open for argmunets and then coming with the standard things: "we want the game to be good, game developement takes time" loosing the sense of reality and being able to refelct objectively what has been said by the developers and what has been done by them until now.

starting at 15:46 Dean is using PAST TENSE, "was,has been issue, huge performance improvement" and then 2 months later: oh doesnt work out need to rework? great.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mlm_djJe708

Well I'm happy that they're making the AI again because it always looked like there's still Arma AI left that might not work that well. I'm still hoping that he dumps that jump attack because it won't ever work in RV engine. I wonder that did they broke the AI completely at some point when scrapping the engine because it wasn't working at all in E3? That video was improvement but the AI could still get lost. I hope they'll not rely so much on line of sight this time when they're chasing.

[BlindOldMan 10]

At the weekend I started to play GTA V on Xbox360. I really must say: I love it!

So finally there's enough to do for me until the SA will be released :-).

 

But yesterday I thought about another thing: What about using GTA V, adding more cities as a basic for an open world zombie survival game? I guess this would be so great :-).

I asked myself: Could this Dayz SA ever catch me up the way GTA V does at the moment?

I guess no. I think the SA will be "out of date" when released. They spent too much time, polish an old engine and passed the point to get ready.

Edited September 30, 2013 by BlindOldMan

[BongomanConk 38]

 

Do you know why game developers always say things like "INNOVATIVE!" "Game changing" and all that shit? It's to sell their games, to make people interested. Imaging. Just imagine for one second Dean were to go on Twitter and say "Rocket2Guns - DayZ is fucking stupid, don't waste your money. I've wasted my time."

 

 

its funny because at some point that was exactly what he was doing, maybe because of all the people complaining. He was like "i´m happy if people don´t buy it, rather than them being disapointed in what i deliver"

or "i´m happy if people lose interest and the hype cools down" ... thats something that doesnt match with your statement

i´m quite sure he says things like that because by now he is terribly scared of failing the whole project and that more or less rigthly.

 

and after all you missed the point.

i´m not angry because he says things like "INNOVATIVE!" "Game changing" whatever, its good if there are new features, new cool other stuff, really.

but the thing is he says these things to row back few months later and to sum up that in reality it was crap and needs to be reworked (see example above)

[hoik 415]

The point was (I think...) that Dean generally avoids making exaggerated claims just to build hype.

 

...anyway... yawn... this conversation is as stale and pointless as a eighty year old woman's womb...

Edited September 30, 2013 by Hoik

[sabre05 351]

i´m not angry because he says things like "INNOVATIVE!" "Game changing" whatever, its good if there are new features, new cool other stuff, really.

but the thing is he says these things to row back few months later and to sum up that in reality it was crap and needs to be reworked (see example above)

 

Wow. I can't tell if that is ignorance, or idiocy. They plan things, and if they don't work they plan other things. They need to have faith in the things they plan up until the very moment they know for a fact it's not up to scratch or won't work. I'm pretty sure Rocket doesn't say things just so he can say otherwise a few months later. All I'm getting from your walls of diarrhoea is you  are too impatient and you have no understanding of project planning/project implementation or game development processes. 

[Wayze 549]

Wow. I can't tell if that is ignorance, or idiocy. They plan things, and if they don't work they plan other things. They need to have faith in the things they plan up until the very moment they know for a fact it's not up to scratch or won't work. I'm pretty sure Rocket doesn't say things just so he can say otherwise a few months later. All I'm getting from your walls of diarrhoea is you  are too impatient and you have no understanding of project planning/project implementation or game development processes. 

Watch your language soldier!

 

Idiocy is a very serious mentall illness!

Edited September 30, 2013 by Wayze

[BongomanConk 38]

Wow. I can't tell if that is ignorance, or idiocy. They plan things, and if they don't work they plan other things. They need to have faith in the things they plan up until the very moment they know for a fact it's not up to scratch or won't work. I'm pretty sure Rocket doesn't say things just so he can say otherwise a few months later. All I'm getting from your walls of diarrhoea is you  are too impatient and you have no understanding of project planning/project implementation or game development processes. 

i´m not impatient, i just dont even care about the game being good anymore. at this point i really realy hope it fails as hard as WarZ did. and youll pay your 30 bucks and be like "mh he was right the whole time."

[CapricornOne (DayZ) 379]

at this point i really realy hope it fails as hard as WarZ did. and youll pay your 30 bucks and be like "mh he was right the whole time."

 

So you're on an ego trip?  :lol:

 

Are you 12?

 

Jesus Christ, the way some of you carry on is as if Dean is the cause for your parent's divorce or something. It's a video game ffs, lighten up. 

 

>Vendettas  :rolleyes:

Edited September 30, 2013 by CapricornOne

[RedNome 443]

i´m not impatient, i just dont even care about the game being good anymore. at this point i really realy hope it fails as hard as WarZ did. and youll pay your 30 bucks and be like "mh he was right the whole time."

 

Wow.

 

Seriously what is wrong with you people?

 

Grow the fuck up.

[Private Evans 1303]

...it is called narcism...

[Dr. Goner 661]

Phahahaha. Impatient after only one year? You must be hurting bad! It takes teams of people over 4 years to make an 8 hour single player game, and you're whining because it's taken them a year to make a 255KM squared map, thousands of items, weapons, sounds, environments, heavily tweak an engine, plan new features and implement them and make a server to client protocol that allows optimised performance.

Well. . . to be fair. It's hardly from scratch.

 

Also, I wouldn't call a game like The Last of Us an average 8 hour single player game. I know you didn't mention it, but I just thought I'd use it as an example. It took a team of forty people just over two years to complete. It was built completely from scratch and they didn't need any "alpha" state time. They set their goal and nailed it. I appreciate your loyalty to BIS and the DayZ project, but you are really selling the amazing work of other companies short. If anything the DayZ project has had an average progression, nothing spectacular nothing horrible.

 

The Last of Us is amazing by the way. If you haven't played it I highly recommend picking it up. It will probably be the last game I ever buy for the old PS3. I haven't tried out the multiplier yet, but I love the AI and the story line.

 

Anyway, just trying to get everyone's feet back on the ground. DayZ's progress has been average. We all want to play the game and I trust it will be really fun.

 

EDIT: Most games spend more time waiting for the correct release window and proper marketing than they do in development. The main difference between DayZ and a so called AAA title is that, in most cases, the AAA games are 99.9% complete before we the sheeple even know they exist. 

Edited September 30, 2013 by DrGonzo

[Wayze 549]

i´m not impatient, i just dont even care about the game being good anymore. at this point i really realy hope it fails as hard as WarZ did. and youll pay your 30 bucks and be like "mh he was right the whole time."

Well, I don't believe you at all. But if it is really the truth, dude you have some real boredom if you hang out in a forum for a game you hate.

 

 

 It took a team of forty people just over two years to complete. It was built completely from scratch and they didn't need any "alpha" state time. They set their goal and nailed it.

Can you prove this please?

Edited September 30, 2013 by Wayze

[Dr. Goner 661]

Can you prove this please?

It's pretty common for well established companies to take approximately two years to complete projects. Assuming they aren't scavenging from an already usable engine, in which case, they might develop two or three games at the same time using the already tried engine and just strategically market and release them individually; Infinity Ward has been doing this a lot lately. The release date depends more upon finding that marketing sweet spot than anything else. For instance, Naughty Dog had no reason to rush the release of The Last of Us due to Uncharted 3 and they also didn't want to come out to close to Dead Island. Release date targeting requires a lot of research as companies can lose a lot of money if their game comes out in to close a proximity to other huge titles or even similar titles on the same platform. Luckily within the gaming industry the market share renews itself about every three months.

 

Here's that article that explains Naughty Dog's thought process and the info about the team and project time. There are many many articles out there on the same subject but wikipedia pulls it all together well.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Last_of_Us

Edited September 30, 2013 by DrGonzo

[Roark92 90]

I wouldnt really ask for anything more from bohemia than average development.  that said Bongo though managed to make several valid points. Although he made them in the midst of a hate-post, making it hard to appreciate, everyone should still try to remain objective.  

i think bongo is exaggerating for sure, but hes right about the zombie AI.  It is a core feature and simply hasn't been worked at all.   I know they did the little tweaking awhile back but this is no longer the mod. tweaks no longer suffice and they should know that.  It has to work and it has to work well, this is a standalone title that you are selling.  And in all honesty they neglected to work zombies this whole time, despite knowing that zombies are a core feature of the game, and arguably are the most broken part.   Even IF zombies could not be worked due to other programming projects needing completion first, this was not made clear to us, and since this is supposed to be open development we have no reason to believe it is a behind the scenes deal.  So it really does beg the question, why do zombies have no progress made?

and please, i know all the information, don't throw how they tried something out but it failed so now they are trying new methods because its simply not how it is and that is delusional.  It is a CORE concept guys, it just doesnt make sense that it would be in its current state unless there is something they arent telling us.  Like maybe they have no idea how to make an AI in arma2.5 that will suit their needs.  I personally am willing to give the team the benefit of the doubt, and i'm sure they are working their asses off and that it is stressful enough for them as it is.  But that doesn't mean I will accept things that simply don't make sense.  In this case, the state of zombie AI.

 

[St. Jimmy 1631]

I guess Rocket underestimated the zombies badly and now he really saw that they just can't work well enough with Arma AI. There's too much line of sight involved and maybe some other stuff that isn't really needed and confuse the AI to get lost when they chase you. I wrote something about this some time ago but I'll say it again. The current or Arma AI relies too much on LoS to being effective and not look stupid (getting stucked or lost) in a zombie game.

Edited September 30, 2013 by St. Jimmy

[Dr. Goner 661]

I guess Rocket underestimated the zombies badly and now he really saw that they just can't work well enough with Arma AI. There's too much line of sight involved and maybe some other stuff that isn't really needed and confuse the AI to get lost when they chase you. I wrote something about this some time ago but I'll say it again. The current or Arma AI relies too much on LoS to being effective and not look stupid (getting stucked or lost) in a zombie game.

 

After experiencing the AI in The Last of US, I tend to agree. They are just so freaking good! I'm sure the rework will pay off for DayZ SA. It just stinks that it's taken them so long to realize this key feature is broken. I mean, the AI in a zombie game has to be spot on or else it's just a huge fail. I think we all understood with the mod but this is a different story. I'm sure they'll get it right. 

Edited September 30, 2013 by DrGonzo