POLL: Dayz SA 1st person only

[aeinola 25]

I repeat myself over and over again. We have the option in the mod, but do you see any first person servers that are full? There are none. I don't know why that is and you don't know either. But we all know that almost 3000 people want the third person to be gone. It is the majority of the community (and you need to be in the community to be a part of it, not just playing the game) which wants third person to be gone.

They don't want a option for third person, because they know it will end like it did in the mod.

 

What the hell I am talking about? The main server which is controlling the loot for all the servers and which is saving all the characters on it. If there were third and first person server there would have to be 2 of these main servers, one for the third person server and the other for the first person servers. I am not sure if that works well with one server, but anyway that would be probably not as easy as you think. And I really don't think that Dean wants to part the players into two different fractions.

:D  LOL (I feel so childish after that)

I cant get my head around this one thing coming up over and over again: there is lots of players who wants the 3rd person to be gone, there is 1st person only servers and there is no players. This is absurd. And your earlier explanations about 3rd person being too tempting or some other sh*t is just rubbish. If people want to play 1st person servers they will, end of story. And there is awesome mod called DayZero and they got highly populated 1st person servers without 500 vehicles and 50 cals non-sense. And if you really dont find good 1st person servers you could host them yourselfs, if there is almost 3000 people behind this it should be easy task. You start your own community, ask for donations to support your 1st person servers, if everyone donates average 1$/month you would have 3000 dollars each month to cover expenses from your servers. 

[gesundheitk 420]

1. You are able to see your clothes in the inventory

2. You can see you clothes if you look down

3. If it is cold you need clothes

4. You need shoes

5. Clothes can give you special advantages

6. Just ask yourself, why do we wear clothes in real life?

There are mirrors all over the place for us to see our clothing. Besides, we're connected to our body, so we feel much lax when it comes to clothing.

 

You can't really compare less than 90 degree vision to 160-200 anyways.

[LilBambi 35]

Humans in real life have about an 180-degree horizontal field of view.

[Wayze 549]

There are mirrors all over the place for us to see our clothing. Besides, we're connected to our body, so we feel much lax when it comes to clothing.

 

You can't really compare less than 90 degree vision to 160-200 anyways.

Actually you can compare everything and you seriously wear clothes to look in the mirror and feel good? Well, probably you are an exception, but most people in our society use clothes to express theirselfs, to look unique and of course to attract other people.

But in DayZ it has also the effect that you actually have different kinds of clothing, so it is part of the survival aspect. If it is cold you should wear something warm or you will get ill. If it is hot you should probably wear a tshirt. Tracking boots are better than normal boots because they hold longer, etc.

 

Ah right, bless you.

 

 

 

Humans in real life have about an 180-degree horizontal field of view.

And? Do you think you got a bigger field of view in third person? It is the same just that the camera a slightly behind you.

Edited September 1, 2013 by Wayze

[dsi24 227]

There are problems with 1st person only in DayZ:

 

• Can't see what you're wearing (why have a wide variety of clothing items if you can't see them?)
• No vestibular sense
• No kinesthetic sense

 

3rd person fixes or at least alleviates all of these problems. I'm not saying 3rd person doesn't have its own problems, but they aren't as apparent as the problems with the current 1st person mode.

 

You also need to realize that Dean should be trying to please his whole fan base rather than ostracize a few in order to please the others. I think the player should be given the option as to whether they want to play in 3rd person or 1st person. Also, the current 1st person view needs to be revamped.

1) Freelook and gear menu doll solve that. You're really reaching trying to use this as a reason for third person.

2) You do not require a sense of balance in a video game, your character has perfect balance. You're really reaching trying to use this as a reason for third person.

3) You can feel objects when you bump up next to them in all first person games, you can tell what surface you're on by the noise it makes in all first person games, you can tell if you're in a bush by sight and sound in ArmA, and freelook allows you to look without moving your whole character, giving you a better sense of self than every other first person game in existance. You're really reaching trying to use this as a reason for third person.

 

I always have to laugh when people talk about the senses in regards to first v third. ArmA is the single best game for sense of self and sense of surroundings out of all first person games ever. Purely due to freelook and the fact that your view model is the world model. It's obvious that people who say things like this aren't really thinking about what they're saying.

 

All third person does is give you senses no human, or any physically possible creature for that matter, has.

Edited September 1, 2013 by Dsi1

[LilBambi 35]

And? Do you think you got a bigger field of view in third person? It is the same just that the camera a slightly behind you.

 

It's easy to notice the difference. You can see a lot more around you in 3rd person compared to 1st person (as it is now).

 

1) Freelook and gear menu doll solve that. You're really reaching trying to use this as a reason for third person.

2) You do not require a sense of balance in a video game, your character has perfect balance. You're really reaching trying to use this as a reason for third person.

3) You can feel objects when you bump up next to them in all first person games, you can tell what surface you're on by the noise it makes in all first person games, you can tell if you're in a bush by sight and sound in ArmA, and freelook allows you to look without moving your whole character, giving you a better sense of self than every other first person game in existance. You're really reaching trying to use this as a reason for third person.

 

I always have to laugh when people talk about the senses in regards to first v third. ArmA is the single best game for sense of self and sense of surroundings out of all first person games ever. Purely due to freelook and the fact that your view model is the world model. It's obvious that people who say things like this aren't really thinking about what they're saying.

 

All third person does is give you senses no human, or any physically possible creature for that matter, has.

 

1) The gear menu doll can only be seen in the gear menu. And with the current field of view, you can only see a little bit of your character's body in freelook, and ONLY if you look directly down or if you look behind you. Neither of these "options" is enough merit to having a new clothing system. The SA is going to have a 3rd person view anyway, despite what our opinions are on the matter.

2) Yes, you do need a sense of balance in a video game. Think about driving a car, for example. It's much different in a game than real life because you don't "feel" a car's direction, acceleration, or deceleration in a computer program. A 3rd person view gives you more depth perception, thereby helping you drive the car better in the game.

3) Compared to real life, games have very limited movement options. And since you're only controlling an "avatar" via keys or buttons, it can be difficult or impossible (depending on how the game is built) to know where different parts of your avatar's body are. Arma 2's movement system and animations are quite clunky, to be honest. I love DayZ but it's far away from being a smooth and fluid game.

 

I think this trailer of Mirror's Edge 2 is a good example of how smooth and fluid a game's 1st person view can be.

 

[tommes 331]

Humans in real life have about an 180-degree horizontal field of view.

Of which a lot of content is unfocused and made up by our brain. Focussed is only a relatively small spot.

This FOV thing is a problem for every FPS type of game hence only a few can afford 3 monitor setups. But in most of those games TPV isn't really missed. Why is that?

It's mostly because usually you compensate the lack of FOV with rapid mouse (head) movement to quick check the otherwise blindspots. For this to work properly you need decent framerates. Actually you need really good framerates. Drops under 60 fps really feel bad. Then there's DayZ with like the worst framerates of this decade so far.

I bet a FOV of like 90° and like 100 fps and not many would complain about FPV that much any more.

[Wayze 549]

1) Freelook and gear menu doll solve that. You're really reaching trying to use this as a reason for third person.

2) You do not require a sense of balance in a video game, your character has perfect balance. You're really reaching trying to use this as a reason for third person.

3) You can feel objects when you bump up next to them in all first person games, you can tell what surface you're on by the noise it makes in all first person games, you can tell if you're in a bush by sight and sound in ArmA, and freelook allows you to look without moving your whole character, giving you a better sense of self than every other first person game in existance. You're really reaching trying to use this as a reason for third person.

 

I always have to laugh when people talk about the senses in regards to first v third. ArmA is the single best game for sense of self and sense of surroundings out of all first person games ever. Purely due to freelook and the fact that your view model is the world model. It's obvious that people who say things like this aren't really thinking about what they're saying.

 

All third person does is give you senses no human, or any physically possible creature for that matter, has.

Exactly right, my beans for that.

I got a theory about people complaining that the first person view is broken and I was playing DayZ today again, since a long time ago. I played on a pvp server, just for fun. Third person was enabled and you spawned with a m16.

So I was shooting normally always in first person perspective, zooming in and use the scope. But I realised again that shooting out of third person or shooting in first person without scoping is way more easier. The crosshair is very, very accurate. You can hit your target from 400 meters without any problems using a normal m16. Trying that while scoping in is way more difficult. That is simply because there is recoil. In third person you don't have any real recoil, it is just the crosshair which moves slightly up while shooting.

And if you play actually just in first person it is way more difficult and feels way more realistic than shooting from third person. For example, if you move in first person while shooting probably 90% of your bullets won't hit the target. However in third person it is like 50%. But I can tell you that, shooting while moving in real life is even for expirienced soldiers very difficult. And in DayZ the people are no soldiers, there are simple survivors. And what I love so much about arma is that you actually have progress similar to real life. Sure, you learn way more faster, but in a first person shooter like call of duty or battlefield you just need 1 minute and you got it, the rest is muscle memory. In DayZ however you really feel the impact of the gun, well that is probably because it is a simulation.

I think that people just don't like this realistic handling of the gun. They say it is clunky and broken, but actually it is far more realistic than call of duty and all other games. And having this realism is changing the whole expirience. It is something special if you kill someone. You know it is not that easy. And most importantly the fact that skill is not everything. Even the best marksman is nothing worth on the battlefield if he does not understand the combat strategies and tactics, the behaviour in a firefight. These things are what makes arma and DayZ so special in terms of combat. You actually are able to applie real life tactics.

But this is not the case if the game is in third person, it is like an arcade shooter. The difficulty which the first person view provides is probably for some player a pain, but actually the only thing which seperates DayZ combat from other games.

 

 

It's easy to notice the difference. You can see a lot more around you in 3rd person compared to 1st person (as it is now).

http://dayzmod.com/forum/index.php?/topic/145895-first-vs-third-person-discussion-dslyecxi-video/

Watch the video. Totally nonsense with "seeing a lot more around you in 3rd person". Additionally DayZ standalone will provide a FOV slider. And in Arma 2 you can actually change your FOV, too.

Edited September 1, 2013 by Wayze

[LilBambi 35]

I'm still not really seeing the point trying to be made here. The Standalone IS going to have 3rd person. So then what are we debating about? The option for 1st person only servers being available for those who want it?

Edited September 1, 2013 by LilBambi

[Wayze 549]

I'm still not really seeing the point trying to be made here. The Standalone IS going to have 3rd person. So then what are we debating about? The option for 1st person only servers being available for those who want it?

The Standalone IS going to have 3rd person if we, the hardcore community, do not reach our goals. We are dedicated to improve the overall expirience of the standalone and with that duty we will try hard to wipe out 3rd person from DayZ history. ;)

Edited September 1, 2013 by Wayze

[Hosty 647]

There are mirrors all over the place for us to see our clothing. Besides, we're connected to our body, so we feel much lax when it comes to clothing.

 

You can't really compare less than 90 degree vision to 160-200 anyways.

 

Ah, the FOV card again.

 

3DP DOES NOT change FOV.

It ONLY puts the camera behind the player character and slightly up.

[dsi24 227]

I find it funny, once you exhaust all of their arguments they just go "well its gonna have it anyways!". Well, why should it? What good reason is there?

[LilBambi 35]

The Standalone IS going to have 3rd person if we, the hardcore community, do not reach our goals. We are dedicated to improve the overall expirience of the standalone and with that duty we will try hard to wipe out 3rd person from DayZ history. ;)

 

Please don't imply that those of us who like TPV compared to Arma 2's very mediocre FPV aren't "hardcore". It's preference.

 

I find it funny, once you exhaust all of their arguments they just go "well its gonna have it anyways!". Well, why should it? What good reason is there?

 

I didn't "exhaust" my arguments. I just don't see the point of continuing if what we say isn't going to change anything that Dean has already decided.

[aeinola 25]

I find it funny, once you exhaust all of their arguments they just go "well its gonna have it anyways!". Well, why should it? What good reason is there?

Again, in my opinion it is best for all if there is both in the game and the players who wants 1st person only can play in servers where 3rd person is disabled. What the hell is wrong whit that? Can someone please explain this to me, i have asked this several times. And about the first person, its TOTALLY unrealistic at the moment, if im prone behind foot tall rock and i want to peak over it my only choice is to rise up on my knee. The BIGGEST problem with 1st person is the restricted movement. I would want to play 1st person but i wont when it is broken like that. If they add similar body movement as free look to rise up and crouch down i will prefer 1st person over 3rd person. For now its just bullsh*t. Yes the 3rd person is unrealistic too, but this is a game, something i do for fun and its not fun for me if i cant see when prone if there is grass or little rock front of me.

 

Now one more time:

1. Why you try to force everyone to play 1st person only if they enjoy 3rd person much more?

2. There is and will always be 1st person only servers for you guys, why wont you play there or host your own 1st person servers (tweak them how ever you want)?

3. Dont you think that having both options in the game its best for all. And most important its best for DayZ since it wont loose any players over this and everyone wins?

[Michaelvoodoo25 3120]

Ask yourself what made DayZ popular, im sure one reason was the choice of both, why change this formula because one has an advantage?

Best to limit the advantage and allow cleaner play, its a program after all. A few lines of code to stop mouse movement near a solid object would work!

And I too am sick to hell of this argument, leave it and let players choose, dont like either? Theres a server for that!

[Jamz 253]

There simply is no logical reason to cut TPV out if the exploits can be fixed either. I'd wait to see what happens to the view first before flying off the handle, it makes more sense.

[tommes 331]

Again, in my opinion it is best for all if there is both in the game and the players who wants 1st person only can play in servers where 3rd person is disabled. What the hell is wrong whit that? Can someone please explain this to me, i have asked this several times. And about the first person, its TOTALLY unrealistic at the moment, if im prone behind foot tall rock and i want to peak over it my only choice is to rise up on my knee. The BIGGEST problem with 1st person is the restricted movement. I would want to play 1st person but i wont when it is broken like that. If they add similar body movement as free look to rise up and crouch down i will prefer 1st person over 3rd person. For now its just bullsh*t. Yes the 3rd person is unrealistic too, but this is a game, something i do for fun and its not fun for me if i cant see when prone if there is grass or little rock front of me.

 

Now one more time:

1. Why you try to force everyone to play 1st person only if they enjoy 3rd person much more?

2. There is and will always be 1st person only servers for you guys, why wont you play there or host your own 1st person servers (tweak them how ever you want)?

3. Dont you think that having both options in the game its best for all. And most important its best for DayZ since it wont loose any players over this and everyone wins?

You are not alone. So your personal enjoyment is not the only valid criterium.

It has explained several times how there are very very few populated FPV only servers out there. Most prominent reason is probably because most players tend to use what is possible regardless of anything else. In other words, leave people the choice and they tend to make the one for their personal comfort which often enough contradicts what would be better for overall gameplay. In even other words...many people rather avoid any challenge because easy feels better. Then even the FPV lovers get sucked in because they don't want to play alone.

Another point is, with no 3rd person view anymore devs would be forced to make 1st person better. In my opinion this would be the best way. Make 1st person good enough that nobody will miss 3rd person! 3rd person view is a crutch anyway.

[mr_chabowski@live.co.uk 2416]

I maybe have the not good brain work thing today.

 

Seriously. I consider myself a bystander to the fight here. (Don't care. Wait and see. Stupid thing to argue over)

Help me wrap my head around it again, for old times sake.

 

• Many FVP servers lie empty.
• Many FPV players choose to play in 3dp games rather than occupy these servers.
• It's 3dp's fault.

[Wayze 549]

Please don't imply that those of us who like TPV compared to Arma 2's very mediocre FPV aren't "hardcore". It's preference.

Never did that. More than 50% of the hardcare community does not want third person, so the hardcore fans do not want third person. Simple.

[Wazza 274]

 

I maybe have the not good brain work thing today.

 

Seriously. I consider myself a bystander to the fight here. (Don't care. Wait and see. Stupid thing to argue over)

Help me wrap my head around it again, for old times sake.

 

• Many FVP servers lie empty.
• Many FPV players choose to play in 3dp games rather than occupy these servers.
• It's 3dp's fault.

 

Exactly apparently

[tommes 331]

I maybe have the not good brain work thing today.

 

Seriously. I consider myself a bystander to the fight here. (Don't care. Wait and see. Stupid thing to argue over)

Help me wrap my head around it again, for old times sake.

• Many FVP servers lie empty.
• Many FPV players choose to play in 3dp games rather than occupy these servers.
• It's 3dp's fault.

As explained multiple times already, for many players the most important thing while looking for a server to play on is player count. That starts a vicious cycle. Then many are soft forced to play with 3dp on because one or more of their friends insist on it. Then there is probably a large amount of players who are not aware of the issues TPV is arising or they don't care that much.

So man FPV players rather play with 3dp enabled than alone.

[mr_chabowski@live.co.uk 2416]

See, in my mind, one of the merits of the forum/Reddit (and others) is the ability to communicate your preferences to the community, get feedback and act on it.

 

Finding likeminded folks (and servers to join) should be like shooting fish in a barrel.

 

I don't want to wind anyone up, so I'll leave you to it.

But seeing this topic come up again... I'm starting to think you're all mental. :P

[Wazza 274]

See, in my mind, one of the merits of the forum/Reddit (and others) is the ability to communicate your preferences to the community, get feedback and act on it.

 

Finding likeminded folks (and servers to join) should be like shooting fish in a barrel.

 

I don't want to wind anyone up, so I'll leave you to it.

But seeing this topic come up again... I'm starting to think we're all mental. :P

Edited for spelling. :thumbsup:

[aeinola 25]

You are not alone. So your personal enjoyment is not the only valid criterium.

It has explained several times how there are very very few populated FPV only servers out there. Most prominent reason is probably because most players tend to use what is possible regardless of anything else. In other words, leave people the choice and they tend to make the one for their personal comfort which often enough contradicts what would be better for overall gameplay. In even other words...many people rather avoid any challenge because easy feels better. Then even the FPV lovers get sucked in because they don't want to play alone.

Another point is, with no 3rd person view anymore devs would be forced to make 1st person better. In my opinion this would be the best way. Make 1st person good enough that nobody will miss 3rd person! 3rd person view is a crutch anyway.

This is the most stupid explanation for this. So if there is a lot of players who wants to play 1st person only servers but end up playing 3rd person servers because the 1st person servers are empty why wont you find a good 1st person server, make a post here in the forums about it, get all your precious 1st person fan boys (apparently about 3000 players) together and go play? Whit this amount of players wanting to play 1st person only it should be REALLY EASY task to populate one 1st person server, and if you succeed you could find another good server and another and so on... DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT and stop crying here. If all you guys say is true about what players want and how many there is behind this thought there is no freaking problem, you are making the problem yourselves.

 

If people choose to play the "easier" way and join the 3rd person server, that is what the players want. You cant say "that player really wants to play 1st person server, but 3rd person seems easier so he goes there". If player enjoys the challenge that 1st person provides he will play in 1st person servers, if he dont and WANTS the game to be easier he WANTS to play in 3rd person servers.

 

And for the record i dont care about these polls and their results. I just dont understand how stupid and incapable people can be...

[Jex 1104]

I would still play the SA without a TPV option as would everybody I'm sure so I voted yes. However I'm sure there would be a mirrored response on a poll titled 'would you still play the SA if first person view was scrapped and TPV fixed?'. What sort of person would be petty enough to boycott a whole game just because they didn't get what they wanted? I think this particular poll is of very limited use...

 

Well the point of the thread was to put an end to the argument "Taking away TPV would ruin sales on the SA". Rather than just say it wouldn't, I posted this Poll just to see what the reaction would be. Thanks for voting :)