It's Been 6 Years

[emuthreat 2837]

If basebuilding and vehicles might make it into the official version of the game before mods make vanilla obsolete.

[OrLoK 16185]

1 hour ago, emuthreat said:

If basebuilding and vehicles might make it into the official version of the game before mods make vanilla obsolete.

Again, why the "sky is falling" premonitions.

Why will vanilla be obsolete?

Vanilla Arma isn't obsolete after all this time.

[Guy Smiley 534]

In the tune of 1 Week by the Barenaked Ladies (Canadian band for those who don't know and think it's actually real naked ladies)

It's been 6 years since you've been looking at me 

I fire you up and then get angry

Bugs and glitches are laughing at me

I rage on the forums and then say I'm sorry

[Raible 24]

Whiner OP back.

Orlok, you're a good guy.  I thought your first post in this thread was out of line and I stand by that but your posts are well thought.

I think my biggest issue with all of this development is not that "MY GAME AIN'T DONE YET", and more of a reflection of what has been actually accomplished over the last 6 years. 

What do you guys see as the big differences in the game since the mod?

Honestly, all I see is the new engine and some inventory improvements.  Don't get me wrong, I LOVE the new engine.  It's awesome.  A six year excuse for not getting into beta?  No. Inventory is better....better...not great.  Melee sucks donkey balls.  It's not BI's thing, I get that.  God bless them, they're working on it and it's still terrible.  Guys, games perfected melee combat and inventory management years and years ago and BI is making seem like they are having to invent warp engine drive technology.  It's pretty sad.  Sorry, but true.

But new towns!  But a new animation for when you're prone and roll to one side!  But they added cowboy hats!  But, but they added hiking trails!  But they added handcuffs!  Seriously?  Again, sorry, but just seems like they've spent 5 of those 6 years piddling away on useless crap that doesn't actually move the needle closer to where this game was originally envisioned to be.  

So what was the original vision?  Well, I know one thing for sure.  Sure as hell wasn't spending time on more money grab crap like Xbox versions before the PC beta is even out!  If that isn't telling, I don't know what is.  I'm pretty sure the original vision had zombie AI that actually worked.  That would be one thing that should maybe be worked.

 

Oh.  They fixed ladders.  One thing got done in 6 years. 

 

[OrLoK 16185]

note: it's not six years. not even 5 yet.

[emuthreat 2837]

4 hours ago, OrLoK said:

If basebuilding and vehicles might make it into the official version of the game before mods make vanilla obsolete.

More difficult than many might like, to get full population vanilla servers.


No chicken little here.  I'm not in a panic, just slightly concerned for vanilla populations if there are more content-rich modded servers competing for players before 1.0 drops and post 1.0 content finds its way to vanilla.

This is not baseless speculation.  Many players in my little microcosm of the DayZ community are already saying they might ditch-out to modded servers if there is not some semblance of content parity from vanilla servers.

I acknowledge that my concerns may be premature, but the possibility is real. That's all I'm saying here; not in panic mode.

[Private Evans 1303]

1 hour ago, OrLoK said:

note: it's not six years. not even 5 yet.

Again...DayZ SA development started in August/September 2012...6 years that is ...even a bit more...nearly 5 years since early access release on Steam, :)

[Derleth 1357]

4 hours ago, emuthreat said:

More difficult than many might like, to get full population vanilla servers.


No chicken little here.  I'm not in a panic, just slightly concerned for vanilla populations if there are more content-rich modded servers competing for players before 1.0 drops and post 1.0 content finds its way to vanilla.

This is not baseless speculation.  Many players in my little microcosm of the DayZ community are already saying they might ditch-out to modded servers if there is not some semblance of content parity from vanilla servers.

I acknowledge that my concerns may be premature, but the possibility is real. That's all I'm saying here; not in panic mode.

Well it is already happening. Personally I haven't set foot on public servers since the server files were published and servers with increased zombie spawns started appearing. Why the heck would I? I want a proper zombie apocalypse feeling, you don't get that with two or three dazed infected staggering about a town. With dozens roaming the streets you do...

I don't give a flying toss about base building, vehicles or all the missing weapons - or indeed player population to be honest - I just want the game world to be actually challenging in itself. Now if vanilla delivers that I will stick to vanilla servers, but if it doesn't I'll play whatever mod that does it best and never look back. 

And if vanilla should deliver that brutal, gritty, and scary zombie apocalypse/survival experience, that I so dearly hope it will do, it will probably (hopefully) offend the more trigger happy, KOS-loving parts of the playerbase that have so far been playing the standalone as a deathmatch shooter. Should they migrate en masse to modded deathmatch/battleroyale/whatever servers, that would only benefit the remaining community as far as I'm concerned. I won't set foot on such servers, but since many players enjoy and prefer that way of playing the game, then all the better that there will be mods catering to that playstyle.

[Mantasisg 172]

I can't see vanilla being obsolete, unless it is going to stay 2hours running and finding nothing simulator. 

Vanilla will be dominating if ways of transportation will be balanced properly, game will be eventful, and looting is not going to be main focus and essence of survival, but interactions with players zombies and various other environment threats will be it. It is just a great shame that it is not yet like that. 

The bright side of poor mods is that various unimaginative simpletons will be in their Lamborghini servers, so no issue.
 

[OrLoK 16185]

12 hours ago, Private Evans said:

Again...DayZ SA development started in August/September 2012...6 years that is ...even a bit more...nearly 5 years since early access release on Steam, :)

Sept or Dec 2013 I forget which...

Edited October 16, 2018 by OrLoK
facts.

[pilgrim* 3514]

the POINT about DayZ SA for PC is that ALL the copies that will ever be sold have ALREADY BEEN sold.

ALL the PC players - who want one thing or another, mods or vanilla, etc -  they are ALL HERE NOW, they ALREADY bought their copy. The FUTURE market for DayZ on PC is about close to ZERO. 

There will never be another generation of NEW players who BUY DayZ SA for PC. About as many new players will  BUY SA on PC  now as buy ArmA I... 
The whole player population exists already and no new folk are turning up and BI is making zero income on ANYTHING it does to DayZ-PC ever in the future.

And please don't tell me 100s of newcomers will PAY for DayZ-SA on PC so they can play a new mod that someone made. That will NOT happen.
The existing - <ageing> - player base HAVE BOUGHT their copies already and they will try out the mods.. some will write the mods, and some will be excited about the mods, and some will like vanilla..

But there will NEVER be more than a PEAK of 4,000 players on DayZ PC at any time, worldwide..

BI is going to introduce "exact placement" of elements so that bases can be constructed. It must do this as it has committed to introducing bases to gaming consoles, where it HOPES the market is NEW and will bring the SALES it NEEDS. It knows perfectly well that DayZ SA on PC will NOT EVER bring in any more sales. 

So all the folk arguing here are the old hands who already bought into DayZ PC long ago. There is NO NEW BLOOD and will not ever be.

If you READ the BI prospectus you can see exactly WHAT you are going to get.

If you want to know WHEN - read what is important to BI.. They plan to get the stuff that you have ALREADY seen out onto console. They need to do that to pay the rent.

DayZ on PC does NOT and never will pay the rent ever again. BI have five games running, started or coming up, four studios to integrate, the console market to deal with, 350 staff to pay every day   - and anything they SPEND on DayZ PC from now on is a LOSS of money.  they won't sell a thousand copies in a year.

Basebuilding is a form of crafting (that's all it is) PLUS ,an "exact placement" mechanism so you can fit the parts of your base together.

As soon as BI has Xbox running properly, THEN they will do Basebuilding on PC and Xbox (..er.. and Playstation)

And put back all the stuff you have ALREADY seen..

And that's the end of the PC story.

The number of people interested in DayZ on PC in ANY form, mod or not mod - will NEVER be any more than it is now.  
So there's no point shouting at the other OLD players about that is there? And on PC there sure won't ever be any new ones to shout at.

xxP

 

 

 

 

 

[St. Jimmy 1631]

17 minutes ago, pilgrim* said:

But there will NEVER be more than a PEAK of 4,000 players on DayZ PC at any time, worldwide..

Have to disagree with this.

It just requires couple popular mods that can beat get the Life and other popular mode players from Arma 3 to DayZ and DayZ could see 20K player peaks daily just like Arma 3. Also some quick BR mode could bring players back from other games.

They've soon milked the Arma 3 dry so it's time to plan DayZ support and DLC plans how to get those players from Arma 3 to DayZ.

[Derleth 1357]

40 minutes ago, pilgrim* said:

DayZ on PC does NOT and never will pay the rent ever again. BI have five games running, started or coming up, four studios to integrate, the console market to deal with, 350 staff to pay every day   - and anything they SPEND on DayZ PC from now on is a LOSS of money.  they won't sell a thousand copies in a year.

I wouldn't look at it so bleakly. If DayZ would be the End Game then maybe, but anything they put into DayZ and Enfusion will be an investment in the next installment in the Arma series. I wouldn't bee too surprised if development of Arma4 is announced as soon as the DayZ standalone stands on firm 1.x ground and is purring along. And I would hesitate to use the word "never" about a successful mod setting off an influx of DayZ sales. We just can't know what happens, the craze around the original DayZ mod and Arma2 could never have been predicted. It is highly unlikely that something similar will happen again, but I would not say impossible.

And, regardless, I don't really care. As long as the game is fun I will play it, or mods of it. That's basically all there is...

Edited October 16, 2018 by Beavis3D

[OrLoK 16185]

Dont forget, time does not stay still. There's a whole raft of new players out there and more are arriving each day as well as those who move on.

We may not go as viral as we did before but dont think all sales are over.

Not by a long shot.

[Private Evans 1303]

2 hours ago, Beavis3D said:

I wouldn't look at it so bleakly. If DayZ would be the End Game then maybe, but anything they put into DayZ and Enfusion will be an investment in the next installment in the Arma series. I wouldn't bee too surprised if development of Arma4 is announced as soon as the DayZ standalone stands on firm 1.x ground and is purring along. 

As it seems you are not that informed. Arma 3 will be the Arma plattform for the next years to come. There is even a meeting this week with community content creators which will most likely create official third party dlc's for Arma 3. As I said before enfusion engine right now is far away from being a real future/next gen tech for BI's game in the years to come

http://tacticalfin.com/sfswebsite/2018/10/09/original-interview-with-bohemia-interactive-english-version/   

Edited October 16, 2018 by Private Evans

[Derleth 1357]

4 minutes ago, Private Evans said:

As it seems you are not that informed. Arma 3 will be the Arma plattform for the next years to come. There is even a meeting this week with community content creators which will most likely create official third party dlc's for Arma 3. As I said before enfusion engine right now is far away from being a real future/next gen tech for BI's game in the years to come.

Then all the more reason to complete the development of it... Arma3 will no doubt stand firm another few years, but sooner or later it will need to pass the ball. 

[OrLoK 16185]

Arma 3 is far from finished but they're not going to ignore the strides taken with Enfusion.

Don't forget Arma *is* a very different beast and although it can benefit from the new engine, its not just a case of "slot it in"

Much like VBS "looks" like Arma 2 they are very different creatures.

I hugely doubt that A4 (or its equivalent) will be entirely on the RV engine it is now.

Edited October 16, 2018 by OrLoK

[pilgrim* 3514]

18 hours ago, St. Jimmy said:

They've soon milked the Arma 3 dry so it's time to plan DayZ support and DLC plans how to get those players from Arma 3 to DayZ.

Doesn't make any difference to BI what you play if you have ALREADY bought DayZ SA on PC ...  what difference does it make now if you play ArmA 3 or an Arma3 mod, you still bought ArmA 3 first. That's what they sell.
What are BI's plans to market more copies of DayZ SA ? .. seriously. they sold 3 million  before Jan 2015 .. how many more do you (or they) expect to sell now? 
Perhaps they'll find someone who hasn't ALREADY decided if they want to buy it or not? 
Do you think many-many  NEW never-played-before, how-much-does-it-cost, players will FIRST TIME BUY DayZ SA on PC  ... to play "an amazing mod" that they hear about ? 

really - great optimism - but i DOUBT it..  how many times a decade do a SERIOUS NUMBER of people BUY a game deliberately so they can play a mod? .. People who ALREADY have DayZ SA (PC) will try out mods as they turn up, naturally.. but the mods wont ever become famous outside "the community"  the way the ArmA DayZ Mod became famous.  .. You imagine a whole bunch of players buying in SA on PC for the first time to play a mod on it ?.. I don't see that happening. 

*

And of course, the more the  already existing SA  players move to a mod, the less interested it is for BI to be working on the vanilla.
Why spend time & money improving the vanilla if nobody plays it?

I really don't see DayZ-PC shooting up to an impressive new peak of sales at all, when mods turn up &  it leaves EA. It would be nice to think so (& great to be wrong).. but.. nah, it won't happen - everyone interested has already bought it.

 

**

At Gamescom 2014, DayZ was confirmed for the PS4 console . During E3 in 2015, the Xbox One version of the game was announced :
 - BI NEEDS Sales - if it doesn't sell games it can't exist.. then no more BI, no studio, no staff, no updates, no fans, no games. I DONT criticize them AT ALL for designing and working on new games for PC and console platforms (I count 7+ current marketable games and franchises ATM, others in the pipeline,  leaving aside the "no income" DZ on PC). If they don't pay their staff & bring online the studios they've bought up,  then they are dead. I'm not faulting them. This is bedrock Reality,  right?

[edit: damn, I  said the same thing I said in my last post - sorry about that..  gaga from explaining how BY CHANCE BI became a BIG indie, and how dangerous that is for them ]

Edited October 17, 2018 by pilgrim*
brain dead

[Guy Smiley 534]

13 minutes ago, pilgrim* said:

Doesn't make any difference to BI what you play if you have ALREADY bought DayZ SA on PC ...  what difference does it make now if you play ArmA 3 or an Arma3 mod, you still bought ArmA 3 first. That's what they sell.
What are BI's plans to market more copies of DayZ SA ? .. seriously. they sold 3 million.. how many more do you (or they) expect to sell? 
Perhaps they'll find someone who hasn't ALREADY decided if they want to buy it or not? 
Do you think many-many  NEW never-played-before, how-much-does-it-cost, players will FIRST TIME BUY DayZ SA on PC  ... to play "an amazing mod" that they hear about ? 

really - great optimism - but i DOUBT it..  how many times a decade do a SERIOUS NUMBER of people BUY a game deliberately so they can play a mod? .. People who ALREADY have DayZ SA (PC) will try out mods as they turn up, naturally.. but the mods wont ever become famous outside "the community"  the way the ArmA DayZ Mod became famous.  .. A whole bunch of players buying in to SA for the first time to play a mod on it ?.. I don't see that happening. 

*

And of course, the more the  already existing SA  players move to a mod, the less interested it is for BI to be working on the vanilla.
Why spend time & money improving the vanilla if nobody plays it?

I really don't see DayZ-PC sales shooting up to an impressive new peak at all when mods turn up &  it leaves EA. It would be nice to think so (& great to be wrong).. but.. nah, it won't happen - everyone interested has already bought it.

 

**

And ps - BI NEEDS Sales - if it doesn't sell games it cant exist.. then no more BI, no studio, no staff, no games. I DONT criticize then AT ALL for designing and working on new games and new platforms.  If they don't do that as best they can,  then they are dead. I'm not faulting them. This is bedrock Reality,   right?

Funny thing with arma 3.  I bought it in hopes of some tactical warfare but instead you get life mods and BR.  Who would of thunk?

 

Yes, thunk is not a word 

[emuthreat 2837]

8 hours ago, pilgrim* said:

The number of people interested in DayZ on PC in ANY form, mod or not mod - will NEVER be any more than it is now.  

I'm gonna have to disagree with this, as there is simply no way you can know this AT ALL.  To assume that a game of this scale will only sell about 3 million copies ever is pure folly.

I don't disagree that PC development seems to have feeling at bit of a back-burner priority lately; and yes, it is undeniable that they would focus on new markets at this point.  But to say the PC market is tapped out is just cynical hogwash.

ARK has sold 4.5 million copies.  PUBG has sold 50 million.    IF even 20% of PUBG players get bored of that and want to try out DayZ BR modes it would double sales of DayZ, even subtracting all possible current owners of both games.

I know you are smart and educated, so it confuses the hell out of me when you go off on tangents like this that disagree with simple math(s).

I'll give you a bit of perspective about how the <25 market of gamers has functioned for the past few years.  My friend complains constantly about his kids standing there watching other kids on YouTube, playing mods of Roblox.  Watching other kids press a button 50 times in a row to achieve a pointless goal.
When people start seeing all the crazy interactions people are having in DayZ, it will certainly push interest.  Once DayZ videos gain more volume and popularity, they will be suggested and seen more, and a percentage of those people will want to try it out.
 

I would make you a firm and serious bet that they will absolutely sell at least 10,000 PC copies in 2019.  There's just no way that is not going to happen.  There 10,000,000+ active gamers out there who saw the DayZ memes and decided never to touch it.  I'm sure at least 10% of them will want to see how it turned out.

[PongoZ 127]

"everyone knows it takes 6 years to make a game!"

Ya, if you get paid before you deliver the game. I have gotten my moneys worth many times over. But lol what a joke.

[OrLoK 16185]

even if x percent buy into new DAYZ thats cool.

if much prefer an educated fan base than a "cod" mass.

like it or not DAYZ has already done very well and will continue to do so, perhaps not as much since it's viral days, but still well.

it's already a success.

it will continue to be as such even if it doesn't deliver x or y 

be realistic, it's a game, not a way of life.

initial release and subsequent additions will please many but there will always be a vocal minority who hate aspect a or b.

what I think disgruntles some folk is their emotional involvement to the game that *was*

and I get that.

e.g. I played Elite on my ZxSpectrum and imagined how great an MP version of the game could be.

for me, it turns out the reality is lacklustre.

others love it though.

does it mean the devs got it wrong?

Same with Star Wars or Dr Who. huge Influences on my childhood but now I don't like the new stuff. 

perhaps it's because I'm not 7 and now 47.

it's not aimed at me anymore.

apologies for the tangent 

but DAYZ will be "what it is".

don't emotionally invest in a franchise.

I think DAYZ will be groovy, in time, like arma.

post 1.0.

but it is coming and coming soon.

and it'll be ok.

 

[pilgrim* 3514]

13 hours ago, emuthreat said:

to say the PC market is tapped out is just cynical hogwash.

I agree and I'm glad I didn't say it.   

 

Give that man a cigar.

 

 

Edited October 17, 2018 by pilgrim*
https://steamcharts.com/app/221100#All

[pilgrim* 3514]

10 hours ago, OrLoK said:

e.g. I played Elite on my ZxSpectrum and imagined how great an MP version of the game could be.

YES !!

No - it's not because you're 747
     (gratz on that by the way)

I went through Privateer (speech pack!!) and  DarKStar One (nice simple little game) and got involved in Eve  [no comment, earth slugs]
avoided all star wars (I have above-average IQ)
& now it "seems possible" that Star Citizen is "maybe" going to finally make it to the level of the Elite experience, <a million years later>
.. er .. or not..
and HEY.. it's been in development .. since.. 2012.. !!  Modern cryogenics is almost wonderful
when it works.

Glad I made that decision back then to put my money down for a copy of ArmA and get the DayZ Mod instead of putting it into Star Cit..
<hehehe>

 

                                                                                                    2018

woopee fuckin' doo  !!

xxP

 

 

[Derleth 1357]

5 hours ago, pilgrim* said:

YES !!

No - it's not because you're 747
     (gratz on that by the way)

I went through Privateer (speech pack!!) and  DarKStar One (nice simple little game) and got involved in Eve  [no comment, earth slugs]
avoided all star wars (I have above-average IQ)
& now it "seems possible" that Star Citizen is "maybe" going to finally make it to the level of the Elite experience, <a million years later>
.. er .. or not..
and HEY.. it's been in development .. since.. 2012.. !!  Modern cryogenics is almost wonderful
when it works.

Oh yes! I spent way way waaaaaay too many hours playing Frontier: First Encounters (FFE, second sequel to Elite) when I was at university. Damn near failed my studies because of it...

Anyone who never played Elite or FFE probably doesn't know the story, so here goes a brief summary:

Elite was a fantastic little space trading game on the 8-bit computers we had in the early 80:s. It was the first open-ended sandbox game ever created, and on top of that had 3D (vector, but still) graphics. It really was incredible at the time, you could be a pirate, smuggler, bounty hunter, honest trader or a combination of all. There were several galaxies, all with thousands of star systems in them, you could customize your ship and fight mysterious and very deadly aliens. Elite had two sequels in the 90:s, where FFE was the second. It was released in 1995 - and this is the interesting part - without actually being completed. Supposedly this was due to the publisher (Gametek) refusing to allow a delay so devs shipped what they had - which wasn't even close to being done. It was an utter disaster, when you fired the ship's laser the game crashed so it was literally unplayable. It had to be withdrawn from distribution, patched and re-released. In the end this mess led to the publisher actually filing a law suit against the developers...

Anyway when I found the game in a bargain bin for 2€ and installed it - and subsequently realized it was actually unplayable - I discovered the wonderful world of game updates being published on the internet. Armed with a few floppies' worth of patches, sneakily downloaded in the university computer lab, I got it running and was lost in outer space.

FFE had that quality to it that it felt like you were playing an MMO although it was a single player game. The galaxy you played in was indifferent, there was a story there and it progressed whether you took part in it or not. You didn't get any breadcrumbs or starting quests, you had to read the news and actively seek certain people out to get involved. If you didn't you could read about some other random commander doing all the stuff you would have done otherwise.

Having that kind of freedom in a computer game blew me away, ever since then I've had a hard time appreciating more linear games where you are basically herded down a corridor of scenes that will happen no matter what you do. So, DayZ is an ideal game for me without doubt, and when I don't feel like playing DayZ there is No Man's Sky...

As for the development bumps? Meh, I've seen worse...

Edited October 17, 2018 by Beavis3D