How many people here do legit real banditry?

[-Gews- 7443]

Anyways: no, I don't rob players. I don't want their gear. I would rather shoot them, or run with them, depending. If I just want to mess with people that won't involve robbery, either.

[Vattenlarv 81]

1 hour ago, -Gews- said:

DayZ sprint speed ≈ 23.15 km/h.

Not much different from ARMA 2. 

ARMA 3 is also ca. 23 km/h for unburdened characters (compared to ~18.2 km/h for standard rifleman).

That's strange. I haven't played DayZ in a long time, but I am sure that last time I saw a video like this the result was way different. And how I experienced Arma 3, the running speed with minimal gear was nowhere near DayZ. Maybe that's because of the stamina system that makes it impossible to run 2 km from one village to the next in 5 minutes (2 km at 23 km/h). Or maybe there is more inertia in Arma 3. I am very surprised tho. It wasn't that long ago I saw some video about the development addressing this issue claiming the running speed was close to that of olympic sprinters (and it felt reasonable to me). I went and had a look if I could find more evidence of this, but I found another good video that came to the same conclusion of about 23 km/h. 

I was wrong it seems. I still feel they should do something, or a lot, about player movement since trying to hit someone running back and forth erratically at a distance, even at close distance, is nothing but annoying. By now it is pretty clear that running full speed at all times and A-D-A-D randomly is the best way to not get killed, since everybody's doing it. Not tactical movement and situational awareness. I think that is the main problem with DayZ at the moment. 

To get back to the topic, I think this is the main reason why nobody cares to interact anymore. There is no need. There is nothing you could possibly gain by interacting with another player at this point, since all you have to do to get that item you need is press W for another 3-4 minutes til you are at the next looting area, without any consequences.

Also, like mentioned earlier, pointing a gun at someone from 3-5 meters away, trying to rob or just ask a question or two with the insurance of having this random stranger in your sights, 9 out of 10 times the guy will "stand there" and A-D-A-D constantly because he/she knows that I might miss if I try to shoot, and also to get ready to bolt and just run away (unless the bandit is armed with a semi- or fully automatic). It is impossible to move anywhere close to that in real life, and It looks ridiculous and just takes the fun and realism out of the whole thing.

I have experienced in my early days, and also seen other players, armed with e.g. a pistol being ridiculed by not hitting another player who is just running around you in circles, jerking back and forth like a big lag. Imagine that as your first experience when you want to try out this "realistic, unforgiving survival experience". 

Because of this, most interactions becomes annoying, hard to control, unpredictable (not in a good way), and often ludicrous (also not in a good way).

Sorry for the false information I was spreading earlier. Not my intention. 

Edited June 12, 2017 by Vattenlarv

[Kirov (DayZ) 585]

2 minutes ago, Vattenlarv said:

Also, like mentioned earlier, pointing a gun at someone from 3-5 meters away, trying to rob or just ask a question or two with the insurance of having this random stranger in your sights, 9 out of 10 times the guy will "stand there" and A-D-A-D constantly because he/she knows that I might miss if I try to shoot, and also to get ready to bolt and just run away (unless the bandit is armed with a semi- or fully automatic). It is impossible to move anywhere close to that in real life, and It looks ridiculous and just takes the fun and realism out of the whole thing.

I have experienced in my early days, and also seen other players, armed with e.g. a pistol being ridiculed by not hitting another player who is just running around you in circles, jerking back and forth like a big lag. Imagine that as your first experience when you want to try out this "realistic, unforgiving survival experience".

 

A friend of mine watched me have a few friendly encounters and laughed his head off. The standard behaviour of two players meeting is probably considered a mating dance by some birds.

There are two main factors that made me reduce my interactions to unexpected run-ins and you mention both:

1) PVPing when people literally run faster than the others can shoot is just laughable. If I want to have a realistic fight, I go play Insurgency. DayZ combat is only slightly higher than first Doom games in terms of realism. I would even like to have a light-hearted shooting practive every now and then, but then I recall how I couldn't kill a guy running around me in circles and I just lose my heart.

2) Unless it's the first 3 minutes of my toon, there's absolutely nothing I could gain from the other player. Whatever he's got in his pockets, I either have already in a barrel or can secure in a much safer way than a shoot-out. And teaming up gives zero benefits.

Both are actually among some of the most important problems with DayZ and greatly limit the gameplay potential.

[Vattenlarv 81]

33 minutes ago, Kirov (DayZ) said:

 

A friend of mine watched me have a few friendly encounters and laughed his head off. The standard behaviour of two players meeting is probably considered a mating dance by some birds.

There are two main factors that made me reduce my interactions to unexpected run-ins and you mention both:

1) PVPing when people literally run faster than the others can shoot is just laughable. If I want to have a realistic fight, I go play Insurgency. DayZ combat is only slightly higher than first Doom games in terms of realism. I would even like to have a light-hearted shooting practive every now and then, but then I recall how I couldn't kill a guy running around me in circles and I just lose my heart.

2) Unless it's the first 3 minutes of my toon, there's absolutely nothing I could gain from the other player. Whatever he's got in his pockets, I either have already in a barrel or can secure in a much safer way than a shoot-out. And teaming up gives zero benefits.

Both are actually among some of the most important problems with DayZ and greatly limit the gameplay potential.

Thank you man. I was starting to think I was the only one realizing how extremely important this is. I have tried to raise this problem so many times, not only here but with friends and other gamers, and most of the time it seems like they don't understand the point.

IRL; If you are in a room with someone pointing a gun at you, with serious intent, and you try to make a run for it, you will get shot. It could be Stevie Wonder holding the gun, you would still get shot. In an open area the middle of nowhere Stevie Wonder would have more of a problem fixating on you, but anyone else would put you down like a dog if you tried to make a run for it. 

If this is not emulated properly in DayZ the game will not do well in the long run. You should be awarded for your stealthy, tactical and well planned advance towards a city. You should truly get the upper hand if you spot someone without them knowing you are there. There should be a point to cautiously searching houses and try to maintain situational awareness using your eyes and ears. At this point there is no reason to do anything "realistically". Just run full speed in 3rd person, looking over obstacles and around corners, and you'll be fine most of the time. 

Edited June 12, 2017 by Vattenlarv

[The_Lonely_Bandit 94]

I think its important to realize that banditry is NEVER truly about the gear. At least it shouldn't be. If you focus too much on drooling over gear chances are your going to hardly interact with the poor bugger you are robbing. 
Even if you think it doesn't make the interaction worse I can guarantee it does in some manner no matter how slight. 

Which is not to say you won't get good gear, more often than not you will (If you actually get off the coast and stop robbing bambis!) but gear should never be the goal. It is merely a means to an end.

 

[Vattenlarv 81]

6 hours ago, The_Lonely_Bandit said:

I think its important to realize that banditry is NEVER truly about the gear. At least it shouldn't be. If you focus too much on drooling over gear chances are your going to hardly interact with the poor bugger you are robbing. 
Even if you think it doesn't make the interaction worse I can guarantee it does in some manner no matter how slight. 

Which is not to say you won't get good gear, more often than not you will (If you actually get off the coast and stop robbing bambis!) but gear should never be the goal. It is merely a means to an end.

I know I might come off as very tedious when I am constantly bringing up the same issue. But have a look at this video, recently posted to DayZ TV. From 0:40 to 2:28 you might as well have the Benny Hill theme on in the background. There is nothing exciting, terrifying or nerve-racking about this situation. There is no suspense whatsoever or no real consequence for attracting a small horde of zombies. It looks more like an NFL running back being chased by a bunch of toddlers. It is laughable at its best. The player does nothing wrong, he is doing what the game allows him to do, and he knows this is the most effective way to survive in this situation, from both the infected and other players lurking around. 

 

Let's say you are observing this situation from afar. Not only does it look ludicrous, but would you want to step in to this situation trying to help this survivor (given that this situation doesn't take place at NWAF)? Why would you? He can just run away. He's not gonna get trapped or be in any serious danger unless he makes a stupid mistake. You will probably see him run off with a horde of zombies on his tail, looking like mama duck with a flock of chicks following him around. Him not being in any real danger, other from encountering another player, makes him dangerous. The KOS cycle is complete!

Since DayZ plays the way it does, gear is the only thing that matters. If you spot someone with an assault rifle at a about 100 m away in a village or city, it often doesn't matter that you have a fully loaded mosin or that you have the upper hand. There is no real way for you to predict where the other player will appear next, after he disappears around a corner, and you have no real time to tactically move in on the location, since the other player could be 10 meters to the left of you in less than 15 seconds. Especially if you are playing in 3rd person perspective, as he can stand anywhere in full cover and just watch you advance. Also, let's say you get a shot off with your mosin and the other player doesn't die, or fall unconscious. In a matter of seconds he will have circled around you, erratically A-D-A-D so you can't hit him with a second precision shot, and let off a long burst of rounds at you.

The more people play in 3rd person and learn how to survive, which means use (abuse) the game mechanics of DayZ, the less interactions there will be. Like Kirov said; "DayZ combat is only slightly higher than first Doom games in terms of realism." Add 3rd person view to that and it feels more like Mario 64 than a horror, zombie, survival game. It does not go well with the gritty melancholic theme of DayZ. 

In order for people to feel the need to interact they have to become immersed and involved in the world of DayZ and Chernarus. Traveling on foot should take time and force you to appreciate the surroundings, and the possible run in with someone. The infected have to be a serious threat and you should often wish that another survivor would come around to help fend them off and offer you food or medical treatment.

It is baffling to me how this has not constantly been the number one complaint, suggestion, priority or topic of discussion since alpha release.

[Kirov (DayZ) 585]

1 hour ago, Vattenlarv said:

You will probably see him run off with a horde of zombies on his tail, looking like mama duck with a flock of chicks following him around. Him not being in any real danger, other from encountering another player, makes him dangerous. The KOS cycle is complete!

[snip]

In order for people to feel the need to interact they have to become immersed and involved in the world of DayZ and Chernarus. Traveling on foot should take time and force you to appreciate the surroundings, and the possible run in with someone. The infected have to be a serious threat and you should often wish that another survivor would come around to help fend them off and offer you food or medical treatment.

It is baffling to me how this has not constantly been the number one complaint, suggestion, priority or topic of discussion since alpha release.

I believe I raised this issue several times and I was far from being the only one. I hoped all these problems will go away with the final release, as 1) the sprinting speed is set to be reduced when working vehicles are in (can't wait for that bicycle!), 2) the stamina system is in, 3) the weight system will further slow down all those tanks on foot which come out of Tisy/heli guantlet; fully-geared people will be hopefully sitting ducks.

As for the difficulty, I think we start to see some progress - in 0.61, it was perfectly possible to spear the zeds without a scratch. In 0.62, they tend to land their punches even so (although maybe it's just a bigger desync). The bow still despatches the zeds like a dream. But maybe it will only get better? The devs must have something up their sleeve, besides it's not actually that hard (design-wise) to greatly increase the zed difficulty. First and foremost, I think they should be attracted to each other's yells. Second, give them more hit points. Then you can add some other zed species like ultra-runners, jumpers, wall-crawlers, door-smashers, etc. but this is probably much harder.

Do you think maybe we should contact a forum mod and ask if the devs are aware/care about this problem? Because now you got me worried. I fully agree that the final release will be unplayable in the long run if this is not all solved. People shouldn't look for interactions "to make finally something happen in this boring game", it should be a game-induced necessity or at least a huge benefit.

[sneakydude 480]

5 hours ago, Kirov (DayZ) said:

I believe I raised this issue several times and I was far from being the only one. I hoped all these problems will go away with the final release, as 1) the sprinting speed is set to be reduced when working vehicles are in (can't wait for that bicycle!), 2) the stamina system is in, 3) the weight system will further slow down all those tanks on foot which come out of Tisy/heli guantlet; fully-geared people will be hopefully sitting ducks.

As for the difficulty, I think we start to see some progress - in 0.61, it was perfectly possible to spear the zeds without a scratch. In 0.62, they tend to land their punches even so (although maybe it's just a bigger desync). The bow still despatches the zeds like a dream. But maybe it will only get better? The devs must have something up their sleeve, besides it's not actually that hard (design-wise) to greatly increase the zed difficulty. First and foremost, I think they should be attracted to each other's yells. Second, give them more hit points. Then you can add some other zed species like ultra-runners, jumpers, wall-crawlers, door-smashers, etc. but this is probably much harder.

Do you think maybe we should contact a forum mod and ask if the devs are aware/care about this problem? Because now you got me worried. I fully agree that the final release will be unplayable in the long run if this is not all solved. People shouldn't look for interactions "to make finally something happen in this boring game", it should be a game-induced necessity or at least a huge benefit.

Well it appears to me a 2 way street on that issue with stamina . Wolfs can out run or did forcing you to hide in a house for a long time to ninja log off or try to kill them someway to get away. Infected cornering you is the same issue if speed is reduced.

With little bullets, and a hope in hell that you find some "pointy stick" everything, i mean everything in this game needs to be looked at. Right now it is sloppy at best for game balances. I am sure the devs would nod too.

 

(we the players, adapt, find ways around it, die 10x more then normal and avoid the same issue to survive) So Stamina will need to be looked at from the top down approach. Not a simple "Check" this box to reduce stamina on each AI for it to feel right.

Edited June 13, 2017 by sneakydude

[St. Jimmy 1631]

20 hours ago, Vattenlarv said:

That's strange. I haven't played DayZ in a long time, but I am sure that last time I saw a video like this the result was way different. And how I experienced Arma 3, the running speed with minimal gear was nowhere near DayZ. Maybe that's because of the stamina system that makes it impossible to run 2 km from one village to the next in 5 minutes (2 km at 23 km/h). Or maybe there is more inertia in Arma 3. I am very surprised tho. It wasn't that long ago I saw some video about the development addressing this issue claiming the running speed was close to that of olympic sprinters (and it felt reasonable to me). I went and had a look if I could find more evidence of this, but I found another good video that came to the same conclusion of about 23 km/h. 

With the old Arma 3 stamina it was slower but then they arcade it for the casuals after some months (or was it even a year) of reading all the crying. So maybe you remember the old system or some old videos because there isn't basically any stamina left in the Arma 3 anymore, only a sprint bar. I've very little faith on new stamina after that move even though this is different team. IMO the speed needs to decrease a lot in this game. Generally to like 4-8km/h and possible to sometimes sprint if needed.

Not to mention that the map would feel much bigger, zombies would be threat and it's easier to program zombies hit slow player than some olympic runner. Though it's fun to troll those KoS people when you can just run around them and shout all kinds of things before they finally hit.

 

I haven't done any banditry ever and I think I never will until there's some actual reson to do it. Currently it would be like doing banditry in PUBG.

[Vattenlarv 81]

8 hours ago, Kirov (DayZ) said:

I believe I raised this issue several times and I was far from being the only one. I hoped all these problems will go away with the final release, as 1) the sprinting speed is set to be reduced when working vehicles are in (can't wait for that bicycle!), 2) the stamina system is in, 3) the weight system will further slow down all those tanks on foot which come out of Tisy/heli guantlet; fully-geared people will be hopefully sitting ducks.

As for the difficulty, I think we start to see some progress - in 0.61, it was perfectly possible to spear the zeds without a scratch. In 0.62, they tend to land their punches even so (although maybe it's just a bigger desync). The bow still despatches the zeds like a dream. But maybe it will only get better? The devs must have something up their sleeve, besides it's not actually that hard (design-wise) to greatly increase the zed difficulty. First and foremost, I think they should be attracted to each other's yells. Second, give them more hit points. Then you can add some other zed species like ultra-runners, jumpers, wall-crawlers, door-smashers, etc. but this is probably much harder.

Do you think maybe we should contact a forum mod and ask if the devs are aware/care about this problem? Because now you got me worried. I fully agree that the final release will be unplayable in the long run if this is not all solved. People shouldn't look for interactions "to make finally something happen in this boring game", it should be a game-induced necessity or at least a huge benefit.

With a new realistic (for lack of a better word) speed, stamina and weight system in place the game would by itself, without further encouragement in form of lore/scenarios/events or whatnot, become incredibly intense. Players would no longer complain about how there is nothing to do, as just looting a village safely could take up to an hour when you need to sneak past zombies, be on the look-out for other players, stay dry and warm, refill your canteen and so on. Even possibly interact with a passerby looking for food or someone to team up with so he/she can safely reach friends in a nearby city. Unless you are in the northwest, there will be plenty of friendly interactions as you no longer can eat two apples and then run to Vybor and gear up, but instead need a plan of action, plenty of supplies and maybe the company of a stranger with a rifle and a few rounds to even make it that far. At least, that is what I expect from DayZ Standalone.

I don't know how or what they should do with the infected. I just wish they were less buggy, and that it felt justified every time they hit you. Maybe give them roughly the same stamina of a less geared up player, so you can outrun them if you're a bambi and do not carry a decent melee weapon. So if you are a little more geared up, and if you got a good head start on an aggro zed, you can still outrun it, but if there are more nearby they will join in on the chase and probably force you to defend yourself. I think the infected can be fairly easy to kill, or at least cripple, but the intense fear of attracting the attention of too many of them should force not-very-well-armed players to be very cautious. 

If the devs are not aware of this by now, they have been completely blinded by their own development. I think they know, but they need to see an absolute outcry in the forum before they'd feel comfortable in implementing the changes.

Edited June 13, 2017 by Vattenlarv

[Vattenlarv 81]

2 hours ago, sneakydude said:

Not a simple "Check" this box to reduce stamina on each AI for it to feel right.

I agree with you that it will require some heavy tweaking and fiddling with the balance. But do you agree with the idea of a significantly slowed down game? 

 

35 minutes ago, St. Jimmy said:

I've very little faith on new stamina after that move even though this is different team.

I am glad to see some players who are on the same page for once. Have faith man! By the time DayZ is finally released the market will have been flooded with arcade-ish 3rd person shooters and people will be sick to death of it. They will have to make these changes. And the more we nag and bitch about it, the bigger chance there is they will listen. They have to at least try it, because I am pretty sure the majority of "casual" players has no idea what they are missing and will love it if implemented. 

Edited June 13, 2017 by Vattenlarv

[The_Lonely_Bandit 94]

@Vattenlarv I'm sorry but I'm really struggling to see what your post has to do with what I was talking about. That video I (forced myself to) watch was just basic pvp. There was no banditry involved there whatsoever. All I saw was horrendous shooting and basic 3pp generic pvp. At no point was anybody robbed nor attempted to be robbed (atleast based on the time stamp you gave). 

If you read my first original comment to me banditry is all about the robbing and interaction side of DayZ.

But anyway moving on with the rest of your comment(s).


'Since DayZ plays the way it does, gear is the only thing that matters' 
^
Is that serious? :/ I mean in terms of survival gear is a massive thing that determines how well you survive.
But DayZ has a whole other side to it that you seem to be ignoring. Which is of course the way players interact with each other. Which is the very base of this thread originally. 
Also where did the 3pp and overall realism over DayZ become involved here? :/ I have no idea what happened to this entire thread as it is entirely off topic now :D
Do note I DO agree 3pp is a gimmick and general movement and combat need to be addressed (which it is being done as we speak) but again none of this has anything to do with this topic I began. 

I think you've gone on a bit of a venting spree and mistakenly somehow thought this thread was the place for it. 

 All I wanted to know was if anybody else here does robberies besides the very tight handful of people that have claimed they do.

A mod may as well close this thread as it is completely off topic now.. 

Edited June 13, 2017 by The_Lonely_Bandit

[Vattenlarv 81]

13 minutes ago, The_Lonely_Bandit said:

I think you've gone on a bit of a venting spree and mistakenly somehow thought this thread was the place for it. 

I am sorry, I didn't mean to derail your thread. But I honestly do believe that all the things I have mentioned and discussed in your thread (again, I apologize for not staying entirely on point), is directly related to banditry and player interaction in general.

You wrote in your first post; "Banditry was a lot more common, - interactions - were a lot more common!"

I shared my opinion as to why I believe this is, and what needs to be done to revert this unfortunate trend. 

Side note; I am since a few months back working online, so I get interrupted when writing a post, and sort of just keep going when I have the time between work tasks. Sorry mate, I'll start a new thread if I feel like discussing this further. 

[The_Lonely_Bandit 94]

@Vattenlarv No worries mate I was just a bit confused is all :) People already derailed the thread before you anyway lol. 

[Kirov (DayZ) 585]

Sorry mate, but like Vattenlarv said - people didn't stop banditing because 'the Golden Era of robbery' is over, but because the game does everything it can to discourage us from meaningful interactions.

And topics get derailed here all the time. ;) Although you're right that we shouldn't have done that. But as you see, literally no other bandit showed up, so I guess you're truly the lonely bandit... :( Who knows, maybe your time will come back?

[The_Lonely_Bandit 94]

@Kirov (DayZ) I don't blame a lack of banditry on the game at all. Back in the "golden era" it died off fairly quickly over time as well. The main thing that caused it is just the people that came to DayZ. People in general (when given anonymity) will do crap things and in particular lazy things. kos is just being lazy and because people usually don't hear the person they kill or their side of the story or even their adventure. People just don't care and just kill without too much reason (Hence constant bambi killings).

DayZ itself doesn't drive players to stop interactions at all. It's just the community and the community mindset (which to me is the biggest problem with DayZ).

Nor does it help that almost every single content creator is just constantly pushing out content involving killing on sight or killing another group after they failed to attempt to kill them first. Content creators showed DayZ off to the world and originally in a really good way but as time went on it just became more and more basic. Now new people (In particular the younger age group) see DayZ as a basic pvp game and so they just do what they've been shown to do. 

[PrincessRobotBubblegum 27]

14 minutes ago, The_Lonely_Bandit said:

DayZ itself doesn't drive players to stop interactions at all. It's just the community and the community mindset (which to me is the biggest problem with DayZ).

This is probably the most true when it comes to reasons for not interacting with people in DayZ. With well over 90% of DayZ content being about PVP its only natural that people will gravitate towards that instead of banditry. It's the easier route rather then having to make an effort to rob someone. As DayZ comes along I am excited to see more and more things implemented to bring back interactions where its not like pulling teeth to get someone to interact, but more so something that should be done to create a better experience for the survival game.

[Vattenlarv 81]

1 hour ago, The_Lonely_Bandit said:

Now new people (In particular the younger age group) see DayZ as a basic pvp game and so they just do what they've been shown to do.

The reason why they see it as a basic pvp game is because of videos like the one I posted earlier. There are literally tens of thousands of videos of DayZ like that. 3rd person, full speed running pvp like DayZ is Quake 3 Arena with a rural Russian countryside as map. When this is what new and future players learn from youtube, you will never see those types of interactions again -

5 hours ago, Kirov (DayZ) said:

because the game does everything it can to discourage us from meaningful interactions.

 

 Now do you understand what we where discussing earlier, and how it actually is very relevant to this topic? 

 

(not flaming or ranting, hehe)

Edited June 14, 2017 by Vattenlarv

[Sqeezorz 839]

Base Requirements:

KoS = Skill level 0 (no special requirements, actually none).

Bandit = Skill level 5 (if both of them come off and still have injuries of power change, then it takes a good portion of courage, estimation, time and a portion of luck to find a good opponent.)

I myself would not be a good bandit, but also no KoS-player, I would rather be a good victim.

In modern times many always choose the simpler way, just do not exert effort or effort, you can also often read about the loot of food, "less food, we ned more food, i search in 10 houses and find no food, damn".... no coment.

[Kirov (DayZ) 585]

19 hours ago, The_Lonely_Bandit said:

DayZ itself doesn't drive players to stop interactions at all. It's just the community and the community mindset (which to me is the biggest problem with DayZ).

I hear but I can't agree. Game design wise, it's gameplay not culture which shapes people's behaviour. If there's no benefit in teaming up, you can't expect people to do so and it's in fact strange if they do. It's like you had a board game and you could buy a special card which does completely nothing. Sure, a family or two will try to have these one each, but the majority of players will just shrug and give it a wide berth.

People behave more or less rationally and I don't think that the community has much to do with it. People KOS because there's no endgame, gearing up in itself is boring, ammo is abundant, etc. Sure if you raise the difficulty level, a lot will complain and quit, but the remainers will adapt their behaviour. Others will come in and enjoy the game like it was supposed to be, i.e. a post-apoc horror survival.

Also this specific current kind of gameplay (i.e. focus on early weapons instead on PVE aspects) attracted a specific kind of a player base and I think that's where the devs made the biggest mistake which is now biting them in the ass on various forums. They should've started with the campfire mechanics not the M4 modular assembly. Crafted bolts should be priority over SVD or even vehicles. Small wonder people are surprised now that there is a cold weather.

 

I'd love to have meaningul interactions in DayZ but I just can't see how I can get that. I don't need a partner for Tisy raiding, hunting, car driving, zombie killing etc. And there's too much risk that I've just run into another bored kiddie. Usually I tend to keep my distance from other players. I have a lot of fun on my own and when I get bored, I just quit DayZ for a while. But give me a reason to approach and I will happily do just that.