Let's talk about Learning

[Declivever 3]

You should have books the player reads to learn how to craft things in game. It should add more realism to the game, and more variety in player characters. Not everybody knows how to sow, farm, tan leather, draw and quarter a animal/human, perform cpr, make a fire, clean a gun, etc... I think you see where I am going here.

I believe certain actions in the game should require the acquisition of knowledge via books. The player should be required to travel and locate books on how to perform certain tasks, so they player's character can "learn" how to perform such skills.

[BCBasher 2465]

A million times no,

This isn't and Elder Scrolls or Fallout game and would be so repetitive with the permadeath concept.

There has been a mention of a getting better by "practice" system to add value to a character lifespan which could be good or bad depending on implementation. 

[Declivever 3]

14 minutes ago, BCBasher said:

A million times no,

This isn't and Elder Scrolls or Fallout game and would be so repetitive with the permadeath concept.

There has been a mention of a getting better by "practice" system to add value to a character lifespan which could be good or bad depending on implementation. 

Well you could have your learning tied to all characters created, in order to avoid permadeath annoyance.  With that said, Either way would be fine with me personally However, it places more values on skill sets that people acquire, and would encourage grouping/trading skills.

I am thinking of more of a 7 days to Die/Miscreated book philosophy where you just generally learn how to use the skill. Not fallout/elder scroll where a point system is used to determine skill success.

[BCBasher 2465]

Permadeth isn't an annoyance, it's a core feature/concept for this game.

If my character has been alive for months and I make mistake (not bugs) I want that to have real consequences and hope there's never account based modifierers improving all created characters in the vanilla game, either way there'll be mods for everybody. 

[Declivever 3]

I see what you are getting at. I was referring to the annoyance of having to get the books to learn the skills again after death. Not the death itself, don't misunderstand, I am a very big fan of perma death. I was a avid UO player (fel not tram) for years where you could loose real life months (even years in some cases) of work for items if you made incorrect decisions or was unlucky.

I like the ideal of you get a book that teaches you a skill or set of skills because I am also a fan of realism.  Like I mentioned earlier, not everyone is a avid hunter and can draw and quarter a deer/chicken/pig/whatever not everyone has the knowledge to perform basic cpr, etc...

My examples to try to be clear:

Camping 101

• Teaches Drill Making
• Teaches how to build a firepit

Tanning 101

• Teaches how to tan leather.

Etc....

[Just Caused 423]

That doesn't make any sense.You're basically suggesting that we get stuck in an animation for one hour or we actually read the whole book for ourselves too, since time-fowarding can't be in multiplayer games.

[Declivever 3]

I'm not sure how you got stuck in a animation for an hour? I mean you could animate the player reading the book, but far less than an hour. But I think this might be a better option. You pick up the book, and maybe inspect it (not read, just view in the inspect context menu no need for that much) it gives you the ability (You get a notification of some sort like you do when your hungry). Then you can put it back down, and somebody else can read it. Or you can take it with you, but it would serve no real purpose after the inspection because it has already served it's purpose at that point other than maybe ripping out a page.

 

As far as using the skills.

You haven't read the book, the option doesn't appear.

For example:

You haven't read a Camping 101 book:

• You try to make a bow drill by combining bark, and long stick the option to create a bow drill does not appear.

You have read the Camping 101 book:

• You try to make the drill bow, and you combine the bark and long stick. The option is now there.

[General Zod 1114]

It's not going to work with random book spawn, further more need to acquire a specific skill will encourage server hopping to find specific book. 

[Troll_Hunter 54]

My proposal is to use 'a book' as way to specialise to enhance role-playing.

How?

Normally survivors start of with a basic knowledge. To be able to do advanced skills, and do some base skills faster, on needs to consume 'a book'. Books should be rare, exchangeable, but only 1 time consumables - a gameplay compromise. Upon consuming the book, the advanced skill is acquired. This skill is perishable, it has a timer. The timer will be reset (and the advanced skill ability extended) if the advanced skill is used. If the player does not use the advanced skill, it will time out and the skill will be lost.

RPG.

There are many games with diverse player roles. Sniper, Assault, support, medic, etc. These player classes, roles and abilities stimulate different play styles. These unique player abilities stimulate team-play, communication, experimentation. This adds a lot more depth by offering people different challenges and therefore much different experiences.

 

Should a player be able to acquire multiple skills?

- Yes. and it will work fine because the advanced skill's perish time and rarity can be tuned to make it hard to find and maintain multiple skills.

 

To be clear, normal players should already have all the base skills, equal to what players now already have. The advanced skills should offer players very useful and unique extras. Like CPR, tuning a car (restored performance and range), seeing animal trails, gun trigger job, starting a helicopter, all things that normal laymen don't know.

 

As an extra: There should be an SAS DAYZ survival pocket book in the game. It should be the game's survival manual, explaining how to survive, all the basic pathfinder survival principles and skills. But also how to craft everything. I think it would be very dayz if there is no help menu but the player actually needs to find the game's manual in game :D

[wojtek678 2]

9 hours ago, Declivever said:

You should have books the player reads to learn how to craft things in game. It should add more realism to the game, and more variety in player characters. Not everybody knows how to sow, farm, tan leather, draw and quarter a animal/human, perform cpr, make a fire, clean a gun, etc... I think you see where I am going here.

I believe certain actions in the game should require the acquisition of knowledge via books. The player should be required to travel and locate books on how to perform certain tasks, so they player's character can "learn" how to perform such skills.

Absolutely not.

It doesn't take a genius to figure out that a rope and a stick can make a fishing rod and a book doesn't provide the hands-on component that many learned tasks require(see CPR), nor is a substitute for experience in say skinning an animal. The characters in the game don't have to be blank slates that we need to fill out later, and here they thankfully aren't.

This game isn't a perfect substitute for real life either. I would not want to tend to my tomato patch for 4 months before I get a tomato; the 20 minute time limit is a perfect compromise between realism and frustration. Finding books to learn skills is less realism and more frustration. Any blueprint system is exactly that -- frustration.

Furthermore, Chernarus is hardly a 1st world country and its survivors are not people that come from sprawling urban jungles. It is extremely likely then that they got to: Fire a gun, learn how to start a fire, learn how to string greenwood bows and make arrows for fun(Have you seen most buildings own a computer?), learn how to farm, and most other outdoors related activities. The more technical knowledge came from primary and secondary schooling(CPR) - This is all coming from personal experience since I, like the characters in the game, hail from a rather underdeveloped part of Eastern Europe.

 

[Volcanogod 28]

The only way i would consider this to be acceptable would be to have books with the recipes such as how to build a fire pit or a improvised backpack. Perhaps when the medical system is implemented you can have books with how to cure certain ailments ect.

But none of these would restrict or enhance any abilities beyond being a reference or a guide for newer players.

[General Zod 1114]

@Troll_Hunter

That's even worse.

[Declivever 3]

12 hours ago, Volcanogod said:

The only way i would consider this to be acceptable would be to have books with the recipes such as how to build a fire pit or a improvised backpack. Perhaps when the medical system is implemented you can have books with how to cure certain ailments ect.

But none of these would restrict or enhance any abilities beyond being a reference or a guide for newer players.

I also like this ideal. This why I wanted to talk about this topic, and the others I posted yesterday, My ideals are just my thoughts, but I want to encourage other thoughts as well. Thanks for the input everyone. 

Edited December 8, 2016 by Declivever
Typo

[wojtek678 2]

15 hours ago, Volcanogod said:

The only way i would consider this to be acceptable would be to have books with the recipes such as how to build a fire pit or a improvised backpack. Perhaps when the medical system is implemented you can have books with how to cure certain ailments ect.

But none of these would restrict or enhance any abilities beyond being a reference or a guide for newer players.

Why would players look for a book on how to craft a backpack when they can just go online? 

[Declivever 3]

3 minutes ago, wojtek678 said:

Why would players look for a book on how to craft a backpack when they can just go online? 

Immersion... to put it simply.

Some people (actual ration I am unsure of) like myself, don't use the wiki, or even online maps. Everything I know how to do, I have figured out by doing it in game. Which is mainly done by trail and error.

I do watch some video on you/twitch from time to time.

 

 

[wojtek678 2]

8 minutes ago, Declivever said:

Immersion... to put it simply.

Some people (actual ration I am unsure of) like myself, don't use the wiki, or even online maps. Everything I know how to do, I have figured out by doing it in game. Which is mainly done by trail and error.

I do watch some video on you/twitch from time to time.

 

 

In that case I wouldn't necessarily add it to the loot tables(junk!) but to the starting inventory, like the flare and rag. 

[Declivever 3]

18 hours ago, wojtek678 said:

In that case I wouldn't necessarily add it to the loot tables(junk!) but to the starting inventory, like the flare and rag. 

 

That would work. 

 

So the current suggestion is, a book/pamplet that the player starts with that has basic tutorial on how to craft some things (like rope/handrill, etc..).

 

For fun, you could make a few tutorial books that only teach a few random different things.

[exwoll 252]

I support  the idea 100%. Hope at least a modder adds it :)

[Volcanogod 28]

On 12/8/2016 at 11:19 AM, wojtek678 said:

Why would players look for a book on how to craft a backpack when they can just go online? 

Some things are not intuitive to players, they may not even look up information because the question never dawned on them. How many players know that two stacks of rags can be combined into a rope? Its not a secret but maybe you wouldn't know that you could do such a thing, or creating a hand drill kit out of some bark and sticks? Now you do not need to rely on matches to get a fire started. These are kinda weak examples to veterans and likely anyone whom goes to the forums with any sort of regularity however there is always going to be that person for whom this information would be a boon.

 

Just remember that because you and I are excited and inquisitive enough to hunt down information online does not mean that other players are as curious or even capable of finding such information. 

https://xkcd.com/1053/

[Sqeezorz 839]

Mechanics (related to the character) from a book to learn makes absolutely no sense in a game where one begins after death at zero. Only where I would see a meaning would be if you have a spawn at the coast a book in inventory that has a tutorial or the most important basics. Everything else is something senseless, especially since the whole Softskillsystem probably synonymous much to talk about, meaning and purpose.

[Weyland Yutani (DayZ) 1159]

On 12/7/2016 at 11:11 AM, Declivever said:

You should have books the player reads to learn how to craft things in game. It should add more realism to the game, and more variety in player characters. Not everybody knows how to sow, farm, tan leather, draw and quarter a animal/human, perform cpr, make a fire, clean a gun, etc... I think you see where I am going here.

I believe certain actions in the game should require the acquisition of knowledge via books. The player should be required to travel and locate books on how to perform certain tasks, so they player's character can "learn" how to perform such skills.

I suggested the concept a long time ago here: 

 

[Mr_Joe 38]

No offense man but I hate this idea. Won't fit in dayZ at all.  I really don't like playing video games and having to grind on them to have fun.

[BeefBacon 1185]

What's the point? If you lose all the skills you learned from books it'll be tedious having to learn them all again. If your skills are shared across all characters then before very long you'll have access to all the skills anyway.

I could maybe get along with skill books that slightly increase your skills, like in Skyrim. You know, you find a book that has something to do with weaponry and your one-handed skill increases by 1. Maybe if you find a book about hunting, your ability to skin animals increases very slightly, or something like that.

Actually learning new skills from books, though? No.

[sausagekingofchicago 4711]

If soft skills are ever gained from reading books I really hope the books actually include real world information to inspire people to learn.   There's still to this day far too many people who can't read a topo map even after hundreds of hours in the mod and SA.    It's a life skill folks.  It's useful.  Useful stuff is good.