CR 550: Discussion

[kataro 59]

A CR550 in 600 overkill in the game will be funny :D

 

600 overkill ammo   0_O. Loud sound and big recoil weapon -_-

[zanandhar 4]

Hi there,

I play dayz From the beginning, even if I don't post often. (I'll try to speak english, so forgive me :))

Well, I'd personnaly love to see much more of that type of rifles than the military ones. I mean, I'm not an IRL, nor ingame,  expert about guns and rifles, but those feel authentic. You really feel like a survivor with an old and rusted gun, much more than with a shiny and modern military grade weapon that can shoot someone in the head one mile away. You just need not to add another sniper rifle (even if it looks like an old one) to the game, such rifles totally break the game potential.

Maybe I'm out of Subject here, but am I the only one believing military weapons are too overpowered and should be REALLY rare ( more than they are nowadays in exp branch : I know they may be just one by server in the future versions ) ? Not talking about realism, of course, just about gameplay.

I mean, I always saw Dayz as a game in witch the player's skill really mattered. But what skill can prevent you from being shot by a distant lethal weapon in the hands of someone you can't even see nor talk to before he shoots you ? Many of us are pissed of by the KOS situation. Adding a long distance rifle to the pool just reduces the opportunities to talk, and increases once more the probability to kill a player before he could have a chance to show you his real intentions. Just because he is a potential threat.

So please, add as much old fashioned rifles as you want, but don't make them one shot distant lethal weapons that totally break the game experience, restraining social interaction, player skill and adaptation to the environnement which are, in my point of view, the core pleasure of this game. At least, implement some inaccuracy factor (is there one?) in the game so that shooting from a long distance way at least let to the target a little chance to react and adapt.

For now, one target in your scope is a 99% guaranted kill. Don't  generalise that to civilian rifles please.

 

 

 

[gannon46 788]

So with these new long range rifles which we have 4 of now are you planning anything to affect ballistics like temperature,wind or quality of ammo. I mean I like these guns It's just 4 long range rifles 2 using the one shot anywhere 308. winchester and i assume this rifle uses 308. And we have the FN-FAL that uses the one shot 308 round. can we get some weapons that actually make a battle last longer than 3 seconds. hell might as well add the M-107 back in this game is gonna be a sniper game in the end just like the mod nothing but belt-fed LMG's and marksmen rifles BORING is all it will be. I hope I'm wrong and i'm missing something or my brain is jumping to conclusions that aren't there. maybe ammo will be rare maybe scope shine can be added(and It should be a priority at some point) and maybe the elements of the world will affect ballistics. If not it's gonna get boring on the PVP and interaction front IMO nothing but damn sniper battles and if I want those I can play BF1-3-4 and have a lot more fun.

[Zboub le meteor 11]

CR 550 is fine in the game (gorgeous model BTW !), more weapon diversity is never a bad thing. but i can think about a dozen other rifles (sako 85, browning maral etc...) in this category that could have been more interesting than a "slightly bigger CR527" and more recognisable. i've been told that weapons in dayz needed to be almost instantly recognisable and the CR 550 fails in that department. i feel that his only reason to be in dayz standalone is because it's been in dayz mod.

53 minutes ago, zanandhar said:

Hi there,

I play dayz From the beginning, even if I don't post often. (I'll try to speak english, so forgive me :))

Well, I'd personnaly love to see much more of that type of rifles than the military ones. I mean, I'm not an IRL, nor ingame,  expert about guns and rifles, but those feel authentic. You really feel like a survivor with an old and rusted gun, much more than with a shiny and modern military grade weapon that can shoot someone in the head one mile away. You just need not to add another sniper rifle (even if it looks like an old one) to the game, such rifles totally break the game potential.

Maybe I'm out of Subject here, but am I the only one believing military weapons are too overpowered and should be REALLY rare ( more than they are nowadays in exp branch : I know they may be just one by server in the future versions ) ? Not talking about realism, of course, just about gameplay.

I mean, I always saw Dayz as a game in witch the player's skill really mattered. But what skill can prevent you from being shot by a distant lethal weapon in the hands of someone you can't even see nor talk to before he shoots you ? Many of us are pissed of by the KOS situation. Adding a long distance rifle to the pool just reduces the opportunities to talk, and increases once more the probability to kill a player before he could have a chance to show you his real intentions. Just because he is a potential threat.

So please, add as much old fashioned rifles as you want, but don't make them one shot distant lethal weapons that totally break the game experience, restraining social interaction, player skill and adaptation to the environnement which are, in my point of view, the core pleasure of this game. At least, implement some inaccuracy factor (is there one?) in the game so that shooting from a long distance way at least let to the target a little chance to react and adapt.

For now, one target in your scope is a 99% guaranted kill. Don't  generalise that to civilian rifles please.

we are off topic here, but just my 2cents : so far in 0.61 exp, shotguns ANNIHILATE everything within 80m, i've blasted a lot of AKM/AK74/SVD/MP5 wielding opponent with a single round of IZH-43 or MP-133. military rifles are not OP at all and i'll stay with my trusty IZH43. sniper rifles don't break the game either, they are not common, ammo are pretty rare and getting a sniper static position mean getting exposed big time (got some nice sporter kills on winchester snipers in obvious positions in the NWAF). getting accurate shots above 400m require skill and patience, no kill is guaranted in this game.

i continue off topic, Gews post is very interesting, i think a lot of improvements can be made in this department. more variety for scopes, real magnification, reticule illumination for those who can etc... i would love to see scopes handled the way they are in Verdun too. i can't imagine dayz in beta without a proper upgrade to scopes.

[zanandhar 4]

I get what you are saying. I don't say sniping doesn't require skills, I just say no skill can save you from a distant sniper once the bullet has left the rifle (one shot is realistic but quite boring in terms of gameplay). Your life is terminated without any chance to react. I mean long range weapons seem a critical factor to me in this game, this needs some serious thinking and balancing if you don't want this game to stay as it is : a military simulation more than a zombi apocalypse survival one. I'm not sure this is off topic as we are asked to talk about another long range rifle. But i can hear your arguments.

Another long range rifle ? sure it looks great, but what is the point ? Rifles are designed to kill people, not zombies, in this game. No one will shoot a Z from 800 meters, just because it is useless ; it is not a threat at this range. A player is, so the natural reaction is : " I wont take the risk because my character can die if I don't shoot first". The more common rifles are, the bigger is the fight distance.

You could use your rifle for hunting, for sure but, well... I prefer a silent bow and a silent approach.

And I really think somewhere, we lost that special feeling you got a few years back, when you werre sneaking at night  in a small town and avoiding zombies, moving slowly and bending at each street corner to plan your way and avoid getting heard by what was supposed to be the main threat. You just can't play this way anymore. Most players I see in towns are just running as fast as possible from house to house to avoid being shot from a distance (how realistic!). This is, in my opinion, a consequence of the constantly growing pool of ranged weapons. (Sure, I could do more reco but it wont prevent a player who just arrived on the spot to shoot just in case I got a long range rifle too...). Adding rifles, even if it is fun and brings variety, changes a bit more this game in a shooting range, we all know zombies are not a threat since standalone developpement (they hit for 30 Hitpoints ATM lol). I hope it will change, but adding long range rifles doesn't seem to go in the right direction. I agree on the ammo argument though : they are rare enough.

I'll stop here, to avoid the thread going off-topic anymore. I just wanted to show the bigger picture in adding guns as a game design philosophy.

Thanks for reading me :)

 

[St. Jimmy 1631]

3 hours ago, blackberrygoo said:

Status report ? :0

Released at least 18h ago https://dayz.com/blog/status-report-06-december-2016

At least Dwarden posted it 17,5h ago in Discord.

 

//21h ago according to Twitter.

Edited December 7, 2016 by St. Jimmy

[Hicks_206 (DayZ) 4297]

On 12/6/2016 at 0:46 PM, IkaikaKekai said:

I suppose I have the same questions as everyone else (caliber, attachements, ect), plus one I think no one's asked yet.  Since this is available in so many calibers, is there going to be just one CR 550, or will there be different variants?  IE a .308 version, and a 7.62x54r, or even a version for a round that's not in yet like .300WM or .30-06SPG?  Or will this be the start of being able to convert a weapon to fire different rounds?  IE with the right tools/parts and a 'crafting table' you can covert a .308 CR550 into a 7.62x54 CR550?

CR is sort of a play on words of the CZ brand from which the weapons are modeled from, Česká zbrojovka, but supposedly made in Chernarus instead.  It's probably also one of those legal things they need to do in order to have the gun in their game, copyright and all that.

Only a 308 version!

308 Caliber, Hunting scope attachment, and two different external magazine types.

[Hicks_206 (DayZ) 4297]

18 hours ago, gannon46 said:

So with these new long range rifles which we have 4 of now are you planning anything to affect ballistics like temperature,wind or quality of ammo. I mean I like these guns It's just 4 long range rifles 2 using the one shot anywhere 308. winchester and i assume this rifle uses 308. And we have the FN-FAL that uses the one shot 308 round. can we get some weapons that actually make a battle last longer than 3 seconds. hell might as well add the M-107 back in this game is gonna be a sniper game in the end just like the mod nothing but belt-fed LMG's and marksmen rifles BORING is all it will be. I hope I'm wrong and i'm missing something or my brain is jumping to conclusions that aren't there. maybe ammo will be rare maybe scope shine can be added(and It should be a priority at some point) and maybe the elements of the world will affect ballistics. If not it's gonna get boring on the PVP and interaction front IMO nothing but damn sniper battles and if I want those I can play BF1-3-4 and have a lot more fun.

Maybe Battlefield is more your style then.

We only have two LMGs in the pipe. Gunfights duration is entirely based upon the effectiveness of your aim - there will be no bullet sponge enemies in DayZ.

[Hicks_206 (DayZ) 4297]

On 12/6/2016 at 7:48 AM, gekker said:

Since its another Civilian Bolt Action Rifle I really hope it stands out in some way from the other weapons of its kind.

I would love to get more info on the devs intentions for this one like ammo type, attachable scopes (nothing tops the Hunting Scope right now).

A quick research gave me the impression its gonna be another .308 rifle with pretty much the same capabilities as the Winchester. With the only difference being that it needs a 5 round magazine. Which makes it more difficult to assemble but in turn increases reload speed I assume. Some differences in accuracy an recoil hopefully.

 

I believe there is a NATO sniper with RIS attachments comming (Scout) which I am happy about because it will stand out a lot from the other Sniper Rifles available. I would like the CR 550 to be unique in a same way. So either a different ammo type or other attachment capabilities. New scopes always excite me :).

Also I am unsure how excately the rifles in the game affect the damage capacities of the ammo types. I learned that the damage dealt by a bullet is determined by the calliber and speed. Does DayZ take barrel lenght into account? Meaning, do different barrel lenghts affect the initial speed of the same calliber and therefore have an influence of the damage at the same ranges? If so, you could make the 550 stand out a bit more from the winchester that way.

It already does.

External magazines, in two different sizes!

[GDZ_saiboT 14]

The weapon will probably has the same spawnpoints as blaze, Winchester etc., right? :)

[gekker 13]

3 hours ago, Hicks_206 (DayZ) said:

It already does.

External magazines, in two different sizes!

I really hoped there is gonna be more that would make it truly unique.

For example I like the difference between the B95 and the Winchester a lot more. Each of those guns appeal to a different playstyle. Players can decide what their personal preference is when deciding which gun to pick up. Do they want a bigger capacity or do they want to have the option to deal a quick follow up shot? Sometimes I decide differently each time I get to choose.

But maybe I have a wrong impression. Im sure when all the new chambering an reload animation come out. Guns with magazines will feel differently as they do now.

The magazine for the CR527 for example feels like a huge limitation to me. Its rare, and refilling the magazine is a bigger hassle than chambering a gun by putting an ammo stack on your hotbar. If you don't happen to have multiple magazines that kinda clog your inventory that is.

[joe_mcentire 2074]

hi brian i'll shoot straight away. i see two loops for a sling. will you spare the extra detail for slings to find as separate item?

also how about an additional mechanic then:

• so w/o backpack and w/o sling: rifle in hands
• w backpack and w/o sling: rifle can be switched between hand/back in t=x
• with sling: rifle can be switched between hand/back in t=x/2;

[Nebulae3 422]

So wind condition is too advanced at the moment related to bullet travel time and realism with our current pc hardware? They simulate wind condition in sports in some golf games, but if Bohemia implement wind then we need some tool to figure out direction of the wind etc. It will certainly increase difficulty to hit anything over 400 meters in a blizzard storm for instant if Dayz SA have plans to use different environments like snow later in the beta. :)

 

Edited December 8, 2016 by ori42

[-Gews- 7443]

6 hours ago, ori42 said:

So wind condition is too advanced at the moment related to bullet travel time and realism with our current pc hardware? They simulate wind condition in sports in some golf games, but if Bohemia implement wind then we need some tool to figure out direction of the wind etc. It will certainly increase difficulty to hit anything over 400 meters in a blizzard storm for instant if Dayz SA have plans to use different environments like snow later in the beta. :)

This was shown once, but that was a very long time ago.

 

Despite many requests, wind effects were not added with ARMA 3 Marksmen DLC, so I doubt it will happen in DayZ. But I could be wrong.

Those sports games (I assume) lack the challenges that would present themselves when adding wind to DayZ's gameplay. And the wind effects in those games may not even be physically correct—who would notice? 

Wind drift does not scale with time of flight. Slower rounds may drift less. A 9 mm NATO round flying at 400 m/s will experience significantly more wind drift than a .45 ACP going at only 280 m/s.

 

We can calculate wind drift like this:

.308 Winchester
Distance = 400 m
Average wind speed = 4 m/s
Wind direction = 90°
Time of flight = 0.6 sec
Initial velocity = 820 m/s

Wind drift = 4*sin(90°)*(0.6-(400/820)) = 0.449 m
(using DayZ's .308 ballistics)

If you wanted to calculate it in real time, more complicated.

 

 

 

 

 

This is what the ARMA team had to say:

In truth, simulating wind-affected ballistics is not the most complicated task; the real struggle comes with the way gameplay is affected by it. Little details like counting how much a bullet is affected at what speed become irrelevant very quickly. The reason is probably surprising to most looking at the company from the outside. How would we tell the player how strong the wind is? By some gadget, one might say, yes, but what if you don't have the gadget? How would you tell the player the strength of wind? Wind is so natural to people - you can feel it - but this feeling is something we can't put into the game. We also considered showing the strength of wind by particles raising up at the target you are aiming at. We had several ideas but we hit a big wall during the process.

That wall is performance. Especially in MP it would be hard to measure, show and compute all the necessary 'helpers'. Our timeframe is limited and the gameplay value is very uncertain because it would make long range shooting much harder than it is. And considering Arma already has a pretty steep learning curve, it could drive away some people that would like to enjoy the game as it is. Some people might say it could be a game option, but should we clutter the game options even more? These questions are very real and very important to us. There are too many questions that don't have very clear answers. That is why we decided not to add this feature to the Marksmen DLC. We are still positive that these can be answered, and with a not-significant amount of time, resolved.

 

 

[SoWeMeetAgain 100]

So this rifle will be effectively the Winchester, but with external magazines?

[kataro 59]

Make it in 416 rigby , Bear common big game hunt (bear),  hunter weapon, not military, or In 338 Lapua Magnum

[-Gews- 7443]

11 hours ago, kataro said:

Make it in 416 rigby , Bear common big game hunt (bear),  hunter weapon, not military, or In 338 Lapua Magnum

A little light for bear, don't you think?

[sneakydude 480]

On 12/10/2016 at 8:34 PM, -Gews- said:

A little light for bear, don't you think?

Nice info Gews, was informative.

@OP awesome, i cant wait to give this a try. Looking forward to it since the cr527 is a new fav type weapon.

 

[chambersenator 106]

On 12/6/2016 at 5:48 AM, Hicks_206 (DayZ) said:

So ask away - what questions do you have regarding the CR 550? What are your thoughts or hopes regarding this specific weapon?
I'll check back each morning and try and field as many of them as I'm able!

I think the gun looks fantastic, and the two kinds of mags are a nice touch as well.

I'm curious as to what are the zeroing options going to be.

But the questions I have really come down to what happens after I pull the trigger, but that has a lot to do with aspects beyond the rifle itself, such as optics, velocity, and the differences of ballistics with A2/A3/SA, etc. I'll make a separate thread about that elsewhere on the forums for that.

Also, one other thing:

On 12/6/2016 at 8:26 PM, -Gews- said:

I- a ton of fantastic stuff -

Great comment, -Gews-,  that's the kind of in-depth stuff I hope to find each time I come to this forum.

[chambersenator 106]

On 12/10/2016 at 7:34 PM, -Gews- said:

A little light for bear, don't you think?

That's why I only hunt bears with light field artillery.

My grandfather used to go bear hunting in the 1930s-1950s with just a Model 1892 25/20 lever-action Winchester. While to me that sounds like madness, he rarely came back empty handed.

I tried to find a decent size comparison picture, but as that caliber has fallen out of popular use, the best I could find was this.

The 25-20 is the third one from the left.

From left to right - 44mag, 357mag, 25-20WCF, and 30 Herrett

 

 

Edited December 13, 2016 by chambersenator

[-Gews- 7443]

3 hours ago, chambersenator said:

I think the gun looks fantastic, and the two kinds of mags are a nice touch as well.

I'm curious as to what are the zeroing options going to be.

I expect it will be 50, 100, 200, 300 m at first, because like several other weapons it inherits this from class "Rifle" (placeholder). Zeroing with detachable scopes depends on the scope, so with the 'Hunting Scope', 100-800 m.

CZ does a 100 m factory zero on the 550, so it should be fixed to 100 m at some point.

2 hours ago, chambersenator said:

My grandfather used to go bear hunting in the 1930s-1950s with just a Model 1892 25/20 lever-action Winchester. While to me that sounds like madness, he rarely came back empty handed.

Pretty impressive. That one is a 'little' light for bear...

The Jordan buck was famously taken with a .25-20. Took a few shots.

[igor-vk 909]

just found this on FB. If I remember, CZ550 in mod used this cartrige.

https://www.facebook.com/pg/MConflict/photos/?tab=album&album_id=1297509906983651

[-Gews- 7443]

5 hours ago, igor-vk said:

just found this on FB. If I remember, CZ550 in mod used this cartrige.

https://www.facebook.com/pg/MConflict/photos/?tab=album&album_id=1297509906983651

 

Yes and no:

On 5/31/2014 at 4:47 PM, Gews said:

I always found the CZ 550 amusing, in ARMA it seemed they couldn't decide what caliber it should be...

 

- the magazines were called "5x_22_LR_17_HMR"

 

- the rifle description said "9.3x62mm"

 

- the magazine description said "7x64mm"

 

- the bullets had an equal mix of the 7.62x51 and 7.62x54R properties

(it took me way too long to figure out how to put the date in my quote tags... grr)

[igor-vk 909]

41 minutes ago, -Gews- said:

Yes and no:

Amusing and confusing, but its mentioned.

[gannon46 788]

On 12/8/2016 at 0:25 AM, Hicks_206 (DayZ) said:

Maybe Battlefield is more your style then.

We only have two LMGs in the pipe. Gunfights duration is entirely based upon the effectiveness of your aim - there will be no bullet sponge enemies in DayZ.

 I guess I could have made this long post short by saying I want authentic ballistics I want snipers to have skill and be feared for that skill that is all. And I don't play much battlefield it's not my cup of tea.