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Identify players with Binoculars, Longrange scope etc.

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On 05/10/2016 at 6:05 PM, General Zod said:

And how do we stop people from using teamspeak ? Legitimately asking. Global chat is unrealistic and IS withing devs control thus we don't have it. Teamspeak is unrealistic but IT IS  NOT within devs control. 

Exactly Zod - key point - So SAD using global comms (teamspeak) only between 'at-home-buddies' across the whole map, in a survival game. It is an exploit, end of story. Teamspeak users don't respect the game, but the mass gamer culture is "use all the exploits you can" (and screw the game).  That's how it is.  My way out (because I'm a FART) is to play solo and talk to players when I meet them face to face. I also don't have my own public hive kick-server to gear up, I don't dupe, and if you find my tent you won't get kicked for it ( and I DONT want a sign over your head to say you're the player who did it) .. I just play the <boring> DayZ the way it was <boringly> designed to be played. I want to be OUT THERE, alert and STRESSED - Damn, I don't even get a buzz out of shooting guys in underwear and dissing other players. ( jeez I must be DUMB, right?)

  - If a company want to build a game that MUST be played as it was intended, then they must build it Cast IRON - and THEN  most people won't play it. Why? -  because games without exploits and "advantages" and cheats don't attract a mass of people. The DayZ game is "the way it is", but a whole mass of players want to turn it into Team Fortress. and the way you play IS the game -  DayZ is a game about << getting geared up fast with your mates and shooting stuff - there is a lot of crap added in but you don't get involved with that Bullshit.>>  The same people who play GTA for laffs play DayZ the same way as they play GTA.. it's just hanging at the mall for kicks.. Damn, in DayZ you can't even get points or achievements or levels or startups or gear outs or scores or power ups,  so there's nothing to do except act the fool and piss around  ( .. so folk say).

*

BUT if you look through the comments, you will see that most of the long term players ARE pretty much solo dudes.. (good people!)  I mean they make their own way - and THEY get the maximum value out of this SPECIAL game .. if they meet up it is with other players like themselves, not with their mates from school ..  

Hey, we could EVEN educate a mass of players to get MORE out of the game, more out of their LIVES,  and have MORE FUN and better value by playing this SPECIAL game as it should be, instead of twisting and exploiting it into another standard lookalike.      

*

I'm NOT complaining here (I'm sounding off) - I'm trying to state a fact - If I kill a player in a firefight encounter I have to get out of there fast - because USUALLY that =DEAD= player is telling his 5 mates exactly where I am and what I am wearing. So I already HAVE a sign over my head saying "This is the One" ..  To be realistic his mates wouldn't even know he was dead until they found the body.

And when players say they want to "recognize their buddies" - do they mean they play with buddies but  DONT have teamspeak?... aint that pretty TOTALLY RARE these days ??  Hard to believe. In fact  ASK the player who he is, and if he's not on your channel, just shoot him. That's how we play DayZ, the modern method.

If there were some way of cutting out TeamSpeak and also keeping the servers FAIR - I would =LOVE= that - But the player base would drop by 50-70 percent.

xx pilgrim

 

Edited by pilgrim*
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POW!

Drop the Microphone and walk away...and like a Boss...don't look back.

All excellent points and observations. A true lament on the current state of gaming as well.

TeamSpeak is the worst thing ever to happen to games that require communication because it removes such a large aspect of immersion. Playing a game using in-game chat only is simply brilliant and the intrinsic realism is unsurpassed.

As a "Solo Player" myself I find it a damn shame to see guys choose the TS way instead of deliberately making an effort to keep to the spirit of multiplay.

You are right on the money, pilgrim...and I hope to eventually find a home on a server that maintains a large percentage of Chat-Only purists such as yourself.

Cheers!

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I just use Steam's voice chat feature when I play with my mate, but same thing as Teamspeak I guess.

We use it to just chat shit for two hours, or however long we're playing. It's no fun playing in silence, and the voice comms in-game aren't exactly conducive to lengthy conversations about TV shows or the depressing hilarity of US politics while we run across the map. We're not going to turn it off just because we've spotted someone. In an ideal world we would, sure, but it isn't practical.

Third-party comms are definitely an exploit, sure, but I'm not convinced there's some sort of malice behind it. I like to chat with my friend when we play games - especially games like DayZ where there are extended periods where nothing really happens. It certainly creates an issue when a group seems to be able to communicate telepathically, but I don't think there's any way you can prevent people from doing that. People would probably be more willing to use the in-game comms if they were better.

 

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Regarding player identification: I can understand why a pure PvP player would feel disadvantaged if they could be identified from a distance. People would KoS known KoSers. While this is fair and realistic it is not a current limitation put on pure PvP players. I would definitely support this as a server option and I'm sure many other players would as well.

Regarding bounty system: This should be a mod or additional game mode. And in-game interface for this would increase my interest in the game.

Regarding in-game communication: It's too easy to jump on TS or Discord. Until in-game comms are this easy to use the majority of players will always opt for other methods. For the alpha players should spawn with a radio and the battery requirement should be removed. In this way global voice and text chat would be enabled through a "realistic" interface.

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On 16/10/2016 at 9:23 AM, scriptfactory said:

Regarding player identification: I can understand why a pure PvP player would feel disadvantaged if they could be identified from a distance. People would KoS known KoSers. While this is fair and realistic it is not a current limitation put on pure PvP players. I would definitely support this as a server option and I'm sure many other players would as well.

How exactly is it realistic? I killed you and your entire squad, how does everyone else finds out ? Who told them if there was no eye witness ? All people find is a group of bodies with bullet holes in them. Is this some CSI bullshit where they take of their shades and say :

- Zod and his man did this, we must find them and stop them before more innocent players die. 

Is this how they know ? Unless I put my kill videos around the web no one should know I am the sniper assassin. 

And this is a millionth time when we have a conversation about what to do with KoS. And for the millionth time the answer is LESS GUNS and MORE DANGER FROM ENVIRONMENT. Yes 3 years after I got this game there is still massive amount of guns and ammo lying around. Sure we slooooowly get more and more environmental hazards but until we have complete survival mechanics in place this game will be a shooter. You know why ? Because people don't want to plant tomatoes, sit by campfires and read books in the game. We might not want DayZ to be TPS either (and this is coming from me; I killed A LOT of people in this game) but I'm not playing the Walking Dead season 2 : the farm simulator. I want to struggle versus nature, but I don't want to lose the trill of meeting a stranger, no name displayed, no kos or hero costume, a stranger. 

Edited by General Zod

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On 10/25/2016 at 11:52 AM, General Zod said:

but I don't want to lose the trill of meeting a stranger, no name displayed, no kos or hero costume, a stranger. 

As scriptfactory mentioned above. This should be one of the option that servers have for their configuration, there's no need for a fight of "which one is better", or "it would screw my playstyle". 

All pvp servers would have this turned off, and the realistic ones could turn it on. As I stated before: Without a recognition system (for players you already met), this game is way unbalanced in favor of "unfriendly" types of behaviour, leaving people that meet ingame at a disadvantage, and making it pretty difficult for organic in-game groups to appear and consolidate (a thing that would occur naturally IRL) (And I believe this can be easily achievable without breaking immersion, like the small white text with the name of the player in your crosshair that S.T.A.L.K.E.R. had). 

In regards of the TS issue: I have faith in the devs. I believe that once they finish all the new engines and get their hands into the features (both implementation and polishing of existing ones), we gonna get much better in-game comm possibilities, with radios that allow us to lower the output volume, in-ear pods that would silence them for the rest of the players, etc, etc. Which would make it a lot easier for people to communicate.

Edited by exwoll

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23 minutes ago, exwoll said:

All pvp servers would have this turned off, and the realistic ones could turn it on.

How is this realistic again ? You should only be recognise people you've met before and added as friend or introduced with, otherwise it's not realistic AT ALL.  

Please do walk me through the though process that led you to arrive at the conclusion that this system is realistic. 

Edited by General Zod

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7 minutes ago, General Zod said:

How is this realistic again ? You should only be recognise people you've met before and added as friend or introduced with, otherwise it's not realistic AT ALL.  

I pointed out that it should be "for players you already met" :) (I linked somewhere in this thread the suggestion I gave for this purpose).

It´s that, or give us an infinite amount of facial features, body shapes, etc to allow us be "unique", and not have 334345345 Deans running around lol

Edited by exwoll

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Well, we´re kinda trying to "deal with it" here ;) 

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What I mean t by that is that I don't like the identification idea, and I also don't think devs want to make this game "friendly behaviour" friendly. 

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2 hours ago, General Zod said:

What I mean t by that is that I don't like the identification idea, and I also don't think devs want to make this game "friendly behaviour" friendly. 

Why? I dont see any negative aspect coming from it. It would add realism to the game (since you are able to identify people you meet right?). 

The game should be an all behaviour friendly (neutral in other word). AtM it is unbalanced and doesn't allow people to behave like they would do IRL. You can unrealistically go and kill 2 dudes, and if 1 or 2 see you doing it, they will not be able to recognize you later, because there are hundereds of other people with your face, armband and clothes running around. 

Identification would add a realistic risk factor for people who engage in "unfriendly" behaviour, making that game style a lot more exciting. And of course letting people to organize groups better. (And I'm referring here to the people who doesn't play with 10 schoolmates with TS, but the ones that genuinely play the game and meet people there, and want to organize something with total strangers). 

If you don't like the idea, it's fine, thats why I would rather see it implemented in different servers, where people who like it will play, and if you don't, there will be several servers with like minded folk where you can go and do what you want.

The thing is that everyone should be able to find a niche in DayZ (be it through different servers or mods in the future). The "I like, I want, f*ck the rest" is unproductive and creates fights where there is no need of any.

Edited by exwoll

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You didn't take few things into the account here.

They will know more or less how I look, but what I'm wearing something that cover all of my face ? Does your system still displays my name ? If it does it looses all of it's realism that you praise so much. 

Second, in order to tell anyone how I look and what I did they would have to actually meet other people and tell them and so on. Whereas since it's a game they can post screen shots or videos online thus spreading word about bad guys at an unrealistic rate which will act like surveillance system that cannot be avoided. This will make people who you never met hunt you down for things they should not know you did.

This game is currently all behaviour friendly, it does not punish or reward for any play style, this is what neutral means, This is why the devs already said no to bandit hero mechanics. They don' want you to be able to approach someone with ease because the game overlay tells you it's ok to do so. 

 

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37 minutes ago, General Zod said:

You didn't take few things into the account here.

They will know more or less how I look, but what I'm wearing something that cover all of my face ? Does your system still displays my name ? If it does it looses all of it's realism that you praise so much. 

Second, in order to tell anyone how I look and what I did they would have to actually meet other people and tell them and so on. Whereas since it's a game they can post screen shots or videos online thus spreading word about bad guys at an unrealistic rate which will act like surveillance system that cannot be avoided. This will make people who you never met hunt you down for things they should not know you did.

This game is currently all behaviour friendly, it does not punish or reward for any play style, this is what neutral means, This is why the devs already said no to bandit hero mechanics. They don' want you to be able to approach someone with ease because the game overlay tells you it's ok to do so. 

 

1.Yup, if you have something covering your face, nobody will be able to identify you.

2.The screenshot part will depend on the community. Serious ones will not tolerate that kind of behaviour.

3.It isn't friendly players friendly. You can't differentiate friends from foes. This means that EVERYONE is a potential enemy, and this force people to adopt a pvp mindset that isn't necessary at all times. There can't be trust in the game at this point, since there is no base where to build it.

If someone tries to kill you and you escape, you will be ready to shot anyone who appears in your sight, because you can't tell who was the one that did it.

I'll paste the link to my suggestion here to avoid spamming the same points over and over again:

 

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2. Most will not care / accept it. 

3. But this is realistic, in real life when shit hits the fan, every new person you meet is a potential enemy. 

And let's be fair here, the main reasons behind rampant KoS and PvP (I'm repeating myself here) are :

  • Ease of acquiring gear, it's not hard or time consuming to get geared
  • Massive stockpile of guns and ammo
  • No real struggle for survival 
  • And directly related to the first one, my character is expendable, because if I die two hours late tops I'm armed to the teeth again. So why not KoS and PvP ?

Any and all anti PvP or ani KoS measures should be discussed and considered once proper survival is in the place. Not then I find 15 guns in one military base. 

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1 hour ago, General Zod said:

2. Most will not care / accept it. 

3. But this is realistic, in real life when shit hits the fan, every new person you meet is a potential enemy. 

And let's be fair here, the main reasons behind rampant KoS and PvP (I'm repeating myself here) are :

  • Ease of acquiring gear, it's not hard or time consuming to get geared
  • Massive stockpile of guns and ammo
  • No real struggle for survival 
  • And directly related to the first one, my character is expendable, because if I die two hours late tops I'm armed to the teeth again. So why not KoS and PvP ?

Any and all anti PvP or ani KoS measures should be discussed and considered once proper survival is in the place. Not then I find 15 guns in one military base. 

2. Most will not care / accept it.  You Play in public servers right?. In the good private ones rules are quite well implemented and the vast majority of the community respect them. There are even servers where TS is against the rules and can get you banned.

3. But this is realistic, in real life when shit hits the fan, every new person you meet is a potential enemy. No. Every NEW person is a potential enemy, but the ones you already know aren't (if they aren't planing to kill you later of course lol). So you should be able to recognize  friends and enemies (if you were close enough to see their faces and survived the encounter). 

I agree with all of the rest. You can go from bambi to rambo in 30min, you find 200 rounds and guns before getting food when you're a newspawn, etc). But it all depends on the end game you're pursuing. 

If your goal isn't becoming the universal soldier with all the high grade military stuff, you can pretty much play the game endlessly. It's enough to setup a goal of surviving a couple of months and all your mindset changes. You no longer care about the high end stuff that is risky to get (at least you gonna think twice how to get near a military base), you start valuing your life.

Of course you need to put some mind effort into that. But as I mentioned a lot of time in the forum: Put a month respawn penalty to every server, and you gonna see how people start valuing their characters life lol.

There are lots of goals you can currently set to your character apart from pvp that can make you get something from the game:

  • Set records of surviving time (people manage to survive for 4-5 months)
  • Become a hunter and travel the map in search of the rare game (you can travel hours to find a deer, sometimes days lol)
  • Create an in-game community (with only people you met in the game) and set goals of X number of people you have to get)
  • Kill all the bandits (you can become an ingame bounty hunter)
  • + there are hundereds of roles you can come up with in any RP server

I mean, playing this game for only pvp at this point is just a waste of time, you can just play COD, BF, CS or TF and get 3030303030 times more fun.

Edited by exwoll

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2. Yes, playing with same people over and over again would ruin DayZ for me. 

3. Friends yes, enemies well I don't know how should that work if they kill you, should you get a "memory wipe" ?

As for the goals

  •  Too easy to survive to set time goal
  •  I hunt in real life.  
  • Had one, but we were a death squad 
  • How do I know they are bandits ?

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26 minutes ago, General Zod said:

2. Yes, playing with same people over and over again would ruin DayZ for me. 

3. Friends yes, enemies well I don't know how should that work if they kill you, should you get a "memory wipe" ?

As for the goals

  •  Too easy to survive to set time goal
  •  I hunt in real life.  
  • Had one, but we were a death squad 
  • How do I know they are bandits ?

2. Well that explains a lot lol. Private servers have hundreds and thousand members, you would meet a lot of people. Plus, it's a post apocalyptic scenario, it isn't supposed to be Times Square with all the new faces out there...

3. That was my suggestion, read the link -.-.

 

Too easy? :D

  1. You can't  hop on most private servers. This means that you will have a HARD time finding barrels for your base.
  2. You can't escape combats "ghosting" or combat logging during encounters (both are strictly forbidden, and you get a ban)
  3. Since you can't hop and find "safe" servers for your bases, you (and the rest of the community) have a quite limited quantity of spots for your bases. Which means that they get raided quite often. And you end up with nothing a lot of times.
  4. Since you can't afford to die (you gonna "lose" your game), you will be quite afraid of most encounters and scream as a b*tch if you hear a car or people talking near to you.
  5. You will think VERY carefully any excursion to a military base or a big city, and any gun shot near you will make you think twice before going in your previous direction
  6. You can also combine this goal with another (like hunting bandits or cannibals), it will add a little bit of sauce to the mix ;)

I mean, just try to survive a couple of months. I dare you! :)

Hunting in real life isn't funny. No one is hunting you at the same time.

About the bandits: 

1. You stalk towns and high traffic areas and wait till you see unfriendly encounters, wait to see who's the "bad" guy, and hunt him (or them)

2. You engage in communication with "friendly" players, get to know the rumors (bad looking guys in X town, Y minutes ago; somebody just robbed me, or tried to kill me, etc stories), start your human hunting from there.

3. You engage in communication with players and wait to see how  "friendly" they're, if they're not, you escape, then stalk them and kill or seek for a cruel revenge (like taking them to the forest, breaking their legs, putting a bag in their head, with their hands tied, and leaving them to die)

4. Private servers have established "bad" groups/factions. They usually have defined territories and patrol them often, you can hunt them there. (Of course if they don't kill you first, which is the most likely outcome)

 

 

Edited by exwoll

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When you add identifying marks such as nameplates or other UI or HUD indicators to people you are essentially making the game easier or enabling players to be lazier in how they approach a situation.

Part of the immersion of the game is not always being 100% about the motives or the identity of the players your interacting with. This video illustrates that idea well.

When shots ring out and your squad has to scatter unless you are already wearing identifying clothing that marks you as friendly, like an armband or all cowboy hats ect. then the chances of friendly fire becomes a very huge threat.

 

The ID system might make sense for players on a private modded hive. But for the vanilla game that DayZ developers have in mind the ID system is just not going to be compatible in the slightest. I find the idea to be intriguing but it should really be developed with modded server rule set in mind and not trying to shoehorn it into Vanilla.   

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32 minutes ago, exwoll said:

2

  1. You can't  hop on most private servers. This means that you will have a HARD time finding barrels for your base.
  2. You can't escape combats "ghosting" or combat logging during encounters (both are strictly forbidden, and you get a ban)
  3. Since you can't hop and find "safe" servers for your bases, you (and the rest of the community) have a quite limited quantity of spots for your bases. Which means that they get raided quite often. And you end up with nothing a lot of times.
  4. Since you can't afford to die (you gonna "lose" your game), you will be quite afraid of most encounters and scream as a b*tch if you hear a car or people talking near to you.
  5. You will think VERY carefully any excursion to a military base or a big city, and any gun shot near you will make you think twice before going in your previous direction
  6. You can also combine this goal with another (like hunting bandits or cannibals), it will add a little bit of sauce to the mix ;)

I

 

  1.  Never built a base in all my gaming hours. 
  2. I am the one who makes other combat log.
  3. I don't care for bases
  4. Meh, I won 5 v 1 fire fight in the tower in Novo. 
  5. Gun shot near me will tell me where my victims are and that they are careless, loud. 
  6. Wouldn't be much different from how I play now. 

 

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32 minutes ago, General Zod said:
  1.  Never built a base in all my gaming hours. 
  2. I am the one who makes other combat log.
  3. I don't care for bases
  4. Meh, I won 5 v 1 fire fight in the tower in Novo. 
  5. Gun shot near me will tell me where my victims are and that they are careless, loud. 
  6. Wouldn't be much different from how I play now. 

 

Yeah, I would like to see all that if your end goal is to survive for longer :)

Meanwhile:

28191623.jpg

Edited by exwoll

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53 minutes ago, Volcanogod said:

When you add identifying marks such as nameplates or other UI or HUD indicators to people you are essentially making the game easier or enabling players to be lazier in how they approach a situation.

Part of the immersion of the game is not always being 100% about the motives or the identity of the players your interacting with. This video illustrates that idea well.

When shots ring out and your squad has to scatter unless you are already wearing identifying clothing that marks you as friendly, like an armband or all cowboy hats ect. then the chances of friendly fire becomes a very huge threat.

 

The ID system might make sense for players on a private modded hive. But for the vanilla game that DayZ developers have in mind the ID system is just not going to be compatible in the slightest. I find the idea to be intriguing but it should really be developed with modded server rule set in mind and not trying to shoehorn it into Vanilla.   

Agree with everything.

Still, I think you aren't getting the whole of my point. For some reason I believe you picture some WOW-like identification system where  everyone can see everyone's else name with a big shiny arrow above the character's heads. If an identification system is added to the game (be it vanilla or a mod, or as an option for servers), it should have a minimal effect in the game UI/HUD and apply realistically (real human eye identification distances, face exposition %, limited memory storage time, one MUST meet or clearly see the face of the character to be able to identify him later, identity memories last as long as the character is alive).

An example could be the system S.t.a.l.k.e.r. had (which I still believe is way too intrusive), but it points in the right direction

In the video you quoted, an identification system wouldn't mess at all with all the situations that arose there!. The guys the character didn't knew, wouldn't be identified, and the "friends" wouldn't lose anything by seeing the guys name when they point at him (and once the guys died, they wouldn't recognize the killer again, since the memory would be erased). 

If someone attacks a group and it gets scattered, the identification system would only work at realistic ranges, and only if you can see the face of the other player, so it wouldn't impact that scenario at all

Edited by exwoll

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18 hours ago, exwoll said:

Yeah, I would like to see all that if your end goal is to survive for longer :)

Meanwhile:

>snip<

 

I am badass, unfortunately I also don't have the time to play DayZ.

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