Is it Possible for 3PP to NOT be Overpowered?

[BeefBacon 1185]

On 21/04/2016 at 10:30 PM, -Gews- said:

 people don't see a problem with the peeking. The server populations make this clear.

I've no doubt that people would play on a server that, say, somehow has a bug that makes high-end loot spawn more commonly. Just because people are playing it that doesn't mean there isn't a problem that needs to be solved. Now you could argue that the 'problem' of 3pp is subjective, and I suppose that it is - but you can say the same about that high-end loot server.

I don't see why the ray-cast occlusion would be unacceptable, provided it worked properly of course. Literally everybody would be happy save for the people who demand the ability to wallpeek, but how long will they remain playing once they can't just sprint from the coast to NWAF without becoming exhausted and starving to death, even if they can wallpeek? They use DayZ as an open-world deathmatch game, but that isn't will DayZ will be. I don't think that wallpeeking has any place in a hardcore survival game.

[Wili 156]

It is a pity each year seeing more and more 3rd person games, What will be next, 3rd person Doom?

[Rauchsauger 94]

On 22.4.2016 at 11:53 PM, BeefBacon said:

I've no doubt that people would play on a server that, say, somehow has a bug that makes high-end loot spawn more commonly. Just because people are playing it that doesn't mean there isn't a problem that needs to be solved. Now you could argue that the 'problem' of 3pp is subjective, and I suppose that it is - but you can say the same about that high-end loot server.

I don't see why the ray-cast occlusion would be unacceptable, provided it worked properly of course. Literally everybody would be happy save for the people who demand the ability to wallpeek, but how long will they remain playing once they can't just sprint from the coast to NWAF without becoming exhausted and starving to death, even if they can wallpeek? They use DayZ as an open-world deathmatch game, but that isn't will DayZ will be. I don't think that wallpeeking has any place in a hardcore survival game.

Except that 3pp is not a bug

Where is there any logic in tying 3pp with sprint/starving?

Why would 3pp accept stamina or starvation? Why would it affect CLE and distribution?

Given that DayZ is a sandbox it will always be a open world deathmatch game - if you want it to be

[emuthreat 2837]

17 minutes ago, Rauchsauger said:

Except that 3pp is not a bug

Where is there any logic in tying 3pp with sprint/starving?

Why would 3pp accept stamina or starvation? Why would it affect CLE and distribution?

Given that DayZ is a sandbox it will always be a open world deathmatch game - if you want it to be

I think what he is talking about is a "certain class of player" which is very common, and often found sharing the same characteristics.  It would be from those ranks that we might see any vocal rejection of a viable wall/roof peeking fix being applied to 3pp.

Some of those characteristics that I've personally observed are: the inability to consistently feed oneself, neglecting to carry bandages, server-hopping for guns, duping for pvp loadouts,  and being completely lost anywhere that is not Cherno/Elektro, Berezino, or the corridor leading from Kamenka to NWAF.

I feel dirty every time I exploit the high school in Elektro to kill an unsuspecting rube, but I still do it sometimes.  I wouldn't complain if they took away the ability to find and shoot people without first having to expose myself to know of the shot.  I should question my morality for the decision to shoot someone in the back, not for the exploit of vantage that facilitated it.

[Rauchsauger 94]

I can't stand the "holier than thou" mindset most of you applicate ignoring the fact that you are projecting your "opinions" on a majority.

It is on the same level as if I would say all 1pp player are just hiding in a bulletproof bushes... It is ridiculous.

[Yuval 221]

3PP camera is good and shouldn't be changed in my opinion. It's a playstyle configuration, I am an RPG player and I have played the Grand Theft Auto franchise, Ghost Recon franchise and Rainbow Six. I find alot of people to not understand that 3PP isn't a bug or anything. It's a playstyle feature and that's how is it supposed to be! Hiding behind walls to view things in 3PP isn't something bad. It's a technique to play with this type of camera configuration.

If you're not okay with that than don't play with 3PP but there's no need to ruin the fun for others because you can't have yours.

I am not going to repeat my words like I do in my comments here, you guys can simply look up my comments on the profile. But there seems to be a major amount of "hardcore" players I'd say? that really want this game to change for their liking with ignorancy to the more casual players.

Edited April 28, 2016 by yuval

[Mean Gun Morris 102]

Is it Possible for 3PP to NOT be Overpowered? Simply put no, no it isn't. Play on first person servers like the rest of us that don't enjoy wall peeking.

[BCBasher 2465]

I remember way back like a hundred years ago (late eighties, early nineties) when 1pp games sprang into existence and I was like wow I can see through my dudes eyes instead of the lame top down or side scrolling games of yore. Then the dark days of de-evolution back to 3rd person so console peasants could watch their dudes butt jiggle or whatever draws you to that unrealistic perspective.

I hope evolution takes your thumbs away too so you have to palm slap your mouse around wall peeking.

Sincerely,

1pp master race.

 

[Weyland Yutani (DayZ) 1159]

On April 21, 2016 at 9:18 AM, ☣BioHaze☣ said:

Ew.

I feel dirty just reading that.

Man, and I thought we were on the same page.... oh well.

Aww...

When I get into a PVP situation I go 1PP. But when I'm running around, its 3PP all day. You get to see more of the map as well as the character model which are both very well done. What parts there are of the character model in 1PP stinks. No attention was given to it. If you look a certain way you see a headless body which is lame-o.

I'm definitely not part of the notion that 1PP is more immersive. Its just not.

[☣BioHaze☣ 7337]

Just now, Weyland Yutani (DayZ) said:

Aww...

When I get into a PVP situation I go 1PP. But when I'm running around, its 3PP all day. You get to see more of the map as well as the character model which are both very well done. What parts there are of the character model in 1PP stinks. No attention was given to it. If you look a certain way you see a headless body which is lame-o.

I'm definitely not part of the notion that 1PP is more immersive. Its just not.

Yipes well, character model fetish and having drone view of the map for aesthetic purposes hardly sounds like core DayZ gameplay elements to me.

I enjoy seeing my friends character models just fine. And that's for a cumulative 5 minutes for every 5 hours I play.

Hopefully aspects of the 1PP view can be improved but to argue that 3PP is more immersive is by definition a flawed argument as you cannot astral project your eye line above your head in reality.

Please don't argue the limited peripheral qualities of 1PP either as not immersive; A: VR is coming and I will probably only play DayZ in VR when that option is available. B: When the whole server is in 1PP it makes you adapt at how you look at the map. It's more constrained and oppressive, you know, like a survival horror game! If you strafe side to side as you move, and wait peeking around things, or god forbid climb up somewhere to get a high vantage point, rather than hide behind a wall and send up your drone you might learn to enjoy the IMMERSION that is staying inside your own head.

Either way, there will be versions of DayZ for us both, mine will just be a more pure survival horror experience while from my perspective, 3PP is an ENTIRELY DIFFERENT GAME.

RTS + Gears of War anybody?

[Weyland Yutani (DayZ) 1159]

5 minutes ago, ☣BioHaze☣ said:

Yipes well, character model fetish and having drone view of the map for aesthetic purposes hardly sounds like core DayZ gameplay elements to me.

I enjoy seeing my friends character models just fine. And that's for a cumulative 5 minutes for every 5 hours I play.

Hopefully aspects of the 1PP view can be improved but to argue that 3PP is more immersive is by definition a flawed argument as you cannot astral project your eye line above your head in reality.

Please don't argue the limited peripheral qualities of 1PP either as not immersive; A: VR is coming and I will probably only play DayZ in VR when that option is available. B: When the whole server is in 1PP it makes you adapt at how you look at the map. It's more constrained and oppressive, you know, like a survival horror game! If you strafe side to side as you move, and wait peeking around things, or god forbid climb up somewhere to get a high vantage point, rather than hide behind a wall and send up your drone you might learn to enjoy the IMMERSION that is staying inside your own head.

Either way, there will be versions of DayZ for us both, mine will just be a more pure survival horror experience while from my perspective, 3PP is an ENTIRELY DIFFERENT GAME.

RTS + Gears of War anybody?

Fetish and drone view...hyperbole much?

I never said 3PP is more immersive, what I said is that 1PP isn't more immersive. The cookie cutter response from 1PP players is they say 1PP is more immersive, its not and I can prove it with fact. Thats what I was getting at.

You don't need to tell me about 1PP, I played tons of it man (Remember Balota Book Exchange or Fapping in the Woods servers?). When I see Veresnik base I think, "hey maybe there is somebody behind that wall and running like a no0b across the field might not be a good idea...let me try something more tactical." This makes me a better player. I know what they can do so I do something to counter that. Its not that hard and I enjoy the challenge.

Immersion isn't getting a higher vantage point to see what lies below or waiting to peak around a corner. Immersion by definition is deep mental involvement and thats a fact. I involve myself deeply in whatever activity I choose in 3PP equally if not more than a 1PP player does. I'm attached to my gear and as a result I rarely die.

My tactical assessment of engaging walls is much more immersive than a person in 1PP charging a wall is.

If someone is in a room side-peeking a hallway or staircase, I'll engage with my voice to get an auditory cue to their location or maybe have someone get in another building with a different vantage to acquire better intel while I distract them. Or maybe I shoot the shit out of the wall where I think they might be or throw a flashbang or grenade in the room. Maybe its not hard to guess where they will be in the doorway when they try to Q/E the doorway and maybe I know where the head will be. This makes me a better player because I'm using my head. At this point I'm usually in 1PP and they're in 3PP.

Entirely different game, not really...1PP is DayZ but less of it and thats a fact.

Never liked Gears of War...its a kids game.

I thought we were having a discussion and you're kinda being a dick about this with the condensing tone. Not sure why you're so offended man. Have a good day...

[☣BioHaze☣ 7337]

5 minutes ago, Weyland Yutani (DayZ) said:

-snip-

My tactical assessment of engaging walls is much more immersive than a person in 1PP charging a wall is.

-snip-

Entirely different game, not really...1PP is DayZ but less of it and thats a fact.

Never liked Gears of War...its a kids game.

I thought we were having a discussion and you're kinda being a dick about this with the condensing tone. Not sure why you're so offended man. Have a good day...

If you understand that 3PP is ARMA2 Easy mode you can begin to see why I find 3PP offensive as part of Vanilla DayZ.

You must have also read the status reports where the devs have come out imploring EVERYONE to play 1PP, right?

You're in essence defending easy mode.... in DayZ.... and I don't want the quality of this great title to suffer based on how comfy you are with 3PP.

Whether you like it or not, you are playing GearZ of DayZ.

3PP makes the firefight strategies that of a cover shooter, whether you stay in 1PP for firefights or not (sounds like you alternate really), now you are just playing the "who flinches first" game until someone gets tired of waiting and rushes a position or somehow exposes themselves.

Rushing a wall, not knowing where a person might be is certainly more realistic. I don't see your point on that one. Because you get more chances to play invisible drone General to your toy soldier? Your idea of fun here seems quite outside what I understand would be a vanilla DayZ experience.

How would you ever formulate that strategy of yours without the inclusion of 3pp??

From what I can tell the devs begrudgingly accept 3PP almost solely on popular demand and would almost certainly do away with it if they thought they could without massive backlash.

I am passionate about this game and the direction it takes, which sometimes might cause my speech to be more.... acerbic.

There is no personal gripe against you but against the ideas that the 3PP proponents use to justify what is almost certainly the most broken aspect of DayZ, and always will be.

*I was thinking earlier that they should make infected agro on people if they wall peak too close to them, like you hopped up to peak over the wall and the infected saw you. Especially now that infected scale walls.

I would love to see a video of a guy switch to 3PP with an infected just on the other side of a wall only to have the infected immediately hop over and fuck him up.

[Weyland Yutani (DayZ) 1159]

12 minutes ago, ☣BioHaze☣ said:

If you understand that 3PP is ARMA2 Easy mode you can begin to see why I find 3PP offensive as part of Vanilla DayZ.

You must have also read the status reports where the devs have come out imploring EVERYONE to play 1PP, right?

You're in essence defending easy mode.... in DayZ.... and I don't want the quality of this great title to suffer based on how comfy you are with 3PP.

Whether you like it or not, you are playing GearZ of DayZ.

3PP makes the firefight strategies that of a cover shooter, whether you stay in 1PP for firefights or not (sounds like you alternate really), now you are just playing the "who flinches first" game until someone gets tired of waiting and rushes a position or somehow exposes themselves.

Rushing a wall, not knowing where a person might be is certainly more realistic. I don't see your point on that one. Because you get more chances to play invisible drone General to your toy soldier? Your idea of fun here seems quite outside what I understand would be a vanilla DayZ experience.

How would you ever formulate that strategy of yours without the inclusion of 3pp??

From what I can tell the devs begrudgingly accept 3PP almost solely on popular demand and would almost certainly do away with it if they thought they could without massive backlash.

I am passionate about this game and the direction it takes, which sometimes might cause my speech to be more.... acerbic.

There is no personal gripe against you but against the ideas that the 3PP proponents use to justify what is almost certainly the most broken aspect of DayZ, and always will be.

*I was thinking earlier that they should make infected agro on people if they wall peak too close to them, like you hopped up to peak over the wall and the infected saw you. Especially now that infected scale walls.

I would love to see a video of a guy switch to 3PP with an infected just on the other side of a wall only to have the infected immediately hop over and fuck him up.

I think you're confused on a few levels here and I'll point them out for you then take another extended break from these forums.

Hicks likes 1PP and he wants people to play all parts of the game because thats his JOB. Thats one guy on the team...singular not plural and he's the creative director formally the producer. BIG difference.

"Rushing a wall, not knowing where a person might be is certainly more realistic. I don't see your point on that one. Because you get more chances to play invisible drone General to your toy soldier? "

Invisible Drone General...seriously? What the hell is your problem man? You're just like these 14 year-old dickheads that have ruined the forum. Unbelievable...I'm gone for months, come back and bam right in the shit with a 1PP freak. Did I log onto bipolar.com or something?

You don't see my point is because you're not reading what I'm saying. How the fuck do I know where the guy behind that wall is when playing 3PP? I don't...I mean isn't this like basic deduction??? What I'm talking about in baby formula words is looking for a way around that has more cover on the outside is more immersive than no0b rushing a wall. Look at me I'm a facking no0b rushing a wall and I'm so immersed right now I can't even believe it. If you can't see that, this conversation is never going to go anywhere.

If Dean Hall or Marek, the guys that designed SA and made it happen didn't want it in-game it never would have been put in-game and thats before players became fond of it.

"There is no personal gripe against you."

Ok sure, whatever you say. I'm not interested. Have your last word, I'm out...

[☣BioHaze☣ 7337]

8 hours ago, Weyland Yutani (DayZ) said:

I think you're confused on a few levels here and I'll point them out for you then take another extended break from these forums.

Hicks likes 1PP and he wants people to play all parts of the game because thats his JOB. Thats one guy on the team...singular not plural and he's the creative director formally the producer. BIG difference.

"Rushing a wall, not knowing where a person might be is certainly more realistic. I don't see your point on that one. Because you get more chances to play invisible drone General to your toy soldier? "

Invisible Drone General...seriously? What the hell is your problem man? You're just like these 14 year-old dickheads that have ruined the forum. Unbelievable...I'm gone for months, come back and bam right in the shit with a 1PP freak. Did I log onto bipolar.com or something?

You don't see my point is because you're not reading what I'm saying. How the fuck do I know where the guy behind that wall is when playing 3PP? I don't...I mean isn't this like basic deduction??? What I'm talking about in baby formula words is looking for a way around that has more cover on the outside is more immersive than no0b rushing a wall. Look at me I'm a facking no0b rushing a wall and I'm so immersed right now I can't even believe it. If you can't see that, this conversation is never going to go anywhere.

If Dean Hall or Marek, the guys that designed SA and made it happen didn't want it in-game it never would have been put in-game and thats before players became fond of it.

"There is no personal gripe against you."

Ok sure, whatever you say. I'm not interested. Have your last word, I'm out...

How the fuck did I make anything personal? And what happened to "have a nice day", melty? Isn't that supposed to mean you were done before...? Ok, I'll take another "last word" then.

PETER came out and said people should play 1PP as well, not just Hicks! (And I think a third team member said it somewhere.)

You calling me bipolar, or immature, is not helping your fairly butthurt comments either. I attack ideas, and game concepts, you have strayed into other territory.

It's in the fucking game because it was in the mod as a left over part of ARMA2 known as Easy mode that the community flocked to because it was just that, EASY, not because Dean, or Marek, want it in, capiche?

Using the drone General comparison is just illustrating the ridiculousness of formulating a strategy based on what you see over a wall with your invisible drone camera.

^There is nothing immersive about this unless your character does a chin up, or otherwise physically moves his line of sight into where you are trying to look (around a corner, off a rooftop camp position).

The ability to peek around corners, over walls, and from rooftops, completely alters how you move through and engage with the environment, and is after all in essence a "third persons perspective", isn't it?

I understand people are afraid that they will get their security blanket taken away but have no fear, 3PP is so well ingrained in this player base that it will never go away entirely, and may not even see much more adjustments. I personally don't care if they never try to "fix" the problems with 3PP as I will likely avoid it altogether when I can.

So yeah, enjoy your conceptually flawed (in multiple ways) perspective, and have a nice day.

[boneboys 7988]

Same old, same old...