open inventory, scan environment, rinse and repeat - how can we change loot- and scavenging? should we even?

[joe_mcentire 2073]

If you are quite frank to yourself looting always (with a few minor exceptions and mostly bug related) looks like this:

• enter loot area
• open inventory
• scan environment and grab everything you need
• rinse and repeat

Now it is kinda obvious why i personally dislike that whole process. It takes away from the game, it feels a bit cheap and it even somehow degrades the environment itself to a neat background image. It's more or less like opening a crate in skyrim and just take whatever you would need (i acknowledge that we already have loot containers)

 

The next issue is losing whole aspects of the game, exemplified by these two scenarios:

• a helo crash-site in then middle of a field
• night-time in general

Both of these examples should inherently add a certain difficulty to the whole looting/scavenging procedure. Frantically looking for loot in a vulnerable position surrounded by high grass shoould be equally elaborate as stumbling through the interiors of a building in the pitch-black night. In these scenarios it really bugs me that the gameplay successfully defeats my immersion.

It's a delicate issue: There is hardly an alternative to the vicinity window. How would you organize your inventory or interact with objects bound to the vicinity window such as bonfires e.g.? Or are we just uninspired enough to think the vicinity window is the best solution in any case? Is my gripe just only a neglectable issue for you, a minor inconvenience to realism but mandatory for the sake of gameplay?

 

My question would be, how could this be changed, what would be the implications and what would you consider a reasonable change, for now detached from possible efforts in time/manpower/costs?

I was thinking about that for some time and wonder if others would maybe think the same.

Edited December 22, 2015 by joe_mcentire

[Bororm 1156]

The LOS mechanic of it could be expanded.  It's already a case where some times you have to crouch to get an item to even appear in the inventory screen because your character's LOS is blocked.  If it was tweaked a little it could be help to actually have to look for stuff.

 

There's also the case of items being tucked into lockers, under tables, in cabinets etc which is underutilized currently.

 

I think the vicinity tab is necessary, but I agree that looting could be a bit more involved.  As it stands, looting in the mod probably left you more vulnerable even if the loot piles were more obvious.  You were stuck in place with a clunkier menu system.  I've always been of the opinion that the SA should retain that slight sense of panic from those clunky controls as the frustration and intensity that arose from it was a large part of what made the game interesting to begin with.

[joe_mcentire 2073]

The LOS mechanic of it could be expanded.  It's already a case where some times you have to crouch to get an item to even appear in the inventory screen because your character's LOS is blocked.  If it was tweaked a little it could be help to actually have to look for stuff.

 

There's also the case of items being tucked into lockers, under tables, in cabinets etc which is underutilized currently.

 

I think the vicinity tab is necessary, but I agree that looting could be a bit more involved.  As it stands, looting in the mod probably left you more vulnerable even if the loot piles were more obvious.  You were stuck in place with a clunkier menu system.  I've always been of the opinion that the SA should retain that slight sense of panic from those clunky controls as the frustration and intensity that arose from it was a large part of what made the game interesting to begin with.

i agree LOS within the vicinity window could be actually inhibited according to the level of darkness. The problem is how would you approach that? you would need to calculate the actual lux in an area which would be most likely a tad of an overkill only to achieve a such a solution. and that would only solve the issue at night...

[pillock 850]

I don't really see why the vicinity window is necessary in the long term.

 

Just get rid of it, and make players interact with items in the actual gameworld, rather than in the inventory screen.

[Tactical Nuke 47]

I don't really see why the vicinity window is necessary in the long term.

 

Just get rid of it, and make players interact with items in the actual gameworld, rather than in the inventory screen.

 

Yeah that's what I was thinking. Sure we need to have an inventory screen but does it need a vicinity window? I'd prefer if I ran into (example) NWAF Tents and instead of running into a tent with my Inventory window open, move to the next, rinse repeat.. that I had to go inside each tent and actually take the time to look around and in each corner. If you can see the loot, excellent. If you can't and you missed it? Pay more attention next time.

[General Zod 1114]

Items spawn underground sometimes. We need that immersion breaker.  

[Tactical Nuke 47]

No, we need the items to spawn above ground - not a Vicinity window.

[General Zod 1114]

No, we need the items to spawn above ground - not a Vicinity window.

No shit but since that can't be done overnight the window stays. 

[nl 986]

We could start with having to take of your backpack before you can see what is in it and organize it. It would really be a container and not give quick access to items stored in it (like weapons and ammo) like IRL.

 

Searching for items in the dark could maybe be solved by only showing up in the vicinity window  when they are within range of a light emitting device like flashlight, torch, headlamp or whatever gives off light. It would also be a reason for players to use those lighting items instead of just cranking up the gamma and it would make looting more dangerous at night because you would give away your position because of the lights.

 

Just thinking out loud here.

[pillock 850]

No shit but since that can't be done overnight the window stays. 

 

No shit but nobody suggested that the vicinity window should be removed over night, either.

[General Zod 1114]

No shit but nobody suggested that the vicinity window should be removed over night, either.

 

Who knows with you people. This forum is full of stupid ideas. 

[LucidHills 94]

-snip- make players interact with items in the actual gameworld, rather than in the inventory screen.

I do believe this is the plan for how the devs want the game to work. I remember reading about how they want the game to be more context based in-game actions, rather than using the inventory system and even the scroll action menu.

You can already see this starting to be implemented with the new cars. To remove the battery you need to open the bonnet and look at the battery to perform the 'remove battery action', etc.

 

I imagine that the devs would agree with this thread in that the vicinity window needs to be replaced with in-game, line of sight actions. So this is probably already part of the plan.

 

We could start with having to take of your backpack before you can see what is in it and organize it. It would really be a container and not give quick access to items stored in it (like weapons and ammo) like IRL. -snip-

Yes, I agree completely. On the same line of thought, only items in quickly accessible locations should be allowed on the hot bar. Also weapons should need some form of strap before they can be carried over your shoulder.

[Tactical Nuke 47]

No shit but since that can't be done overnight the window stays. 

 

No shit :o and there was me thinking it'd all be fixed by tomorrow.

[nl 986]

No shit :o and there was me thinking it'd all be fixed by tomorrow.

 

No shit but since that can't be done overnight the window stays. 

 

 

No shit but nobody suggested that the vicinity window should be removed over night, either.

 

 

No shit :o and there was me thinking it'd all be fixed by tomorrow.

 

How about posting some constructive comments?

[pillock 850]

How about posting some constructive comments?

 

No shit

[Bororm 1156]

i agree LOS within the vicinity window could be actually inhibited according to the level of darkness. The problem is how would you approach that? you would need to calculate the actual lux in an area which would be most likely a tad of an overkill only to achieve a such a solution. and that would only solve the issue at night...

 

I wasn't really referring to darkness, I was more referring to how already if an item is under a table/bed or something, your character must crouch to get it to show in the vicinity window.  The game already takes into account a line of sight effect, where if your character can't "see" the item it doesn't show up.  Similarly you can face your back to an item and not have it appear (though there is leeway there in the current system).

 

Expanding on that so that the LOS was a bit more restrained and also tucking more items into hard to reach spots would make it a bit more involved.

Edited December 22, 2015 by Bororm

[pillock 850]

I wasn't really referring to darkness, I was more referring to how already if an item is under a table/bed or something, your character must crouch to get it to show in the vicinity window.  The game already takes into account a line of sight effect, where if your character can't "see" the item it doesn't show up.  Similarly you can face your back to an item and not have it appear (though there is leeway there in the current system).

 

Expanding on that so that the LOS was a bit more restrained and also tucking more items into hard to reach spots would make it a bit more involved.

 

I think they should get rid of it altogether: you could use context-select to interact with fires and containers, as well as items, to enable them in your inventory; that way you wouldn't be able to cheat by finding stuff you can't see using the current system.

Edited December 22, 2015 by Pillock

[xalienax 621]

i would like to see a 'sensible' loot system as well. As in the locations we find things being more viared but logical places to look as well. with CLE in place i think another nice addition (if its posssible) would be to track on the back end the 'most frequently looted' areas and over time have it dial back spawns in those area simulating them being 'cleaned out already'. it would go a long ways to keep people mobile and actively searching for thier needs and wants rather then just hitting up this patches looting hotspot.

[Tactical Nuke 47]

How about posting some constructive comments?

 

No shit! I did.

 

 

Yeah that's what I was thinking. Sure we need to have an inventory screen but does it need a vicinity window? I'd prefer if I ran into (example) NWAF Tents and instead of running into a tent with my Inventory window open, move to the next, rinse repeat.. that I had to go inside each tent and actually take the time to look around and in each corner. If you can see the loot, excellent. If you can't and you missed it? Pay more attention next time.

[Salty seadog 125]

I would like to see a "No shit" vicinity window. Basically only showing the bare minimum items I need to survive and absolutely nothing else all of the time.

[blackberrygoo 1416]

I don't mind the vicinity at all , which is weird because I'm all about immersion and realism .... But I do agree , eventually the vicinity window needs to be removed to get us into the world more , so instead of running through military camps staring at our vicinity windows we would be watching everything everywhere , for not only loot but people . Basically it would help everyone in a positive way if we all accepted the removal of it over time , but then again I think that same way about removing 3pp from the game , and many people say it's necessary so I'm not sure how the public will feel ..

Edited December 23, 2015 by Grapefruit kush

[Zurvivalist 300]

My suggestion has always been to fix multiple issues at once. By simple changing the way we access inventory and loot on the fly. 

 

i think it should be that when you access inventory you stop , drop to one knee and open your back back on the ground in front of you ,

If no backpack equipped , Then simply stop and a animation of searching pockets,

This will make the Hotbar all the more important for quick access to certain items . 

 

You could remove the ground view window entirely , But if forced to stop and play an animation during inventory access it would make looting on the fly very cumbersome, and not really work as it does now. 

 

As to the loot spawning underground,. we fix this by opening the door to chaos, Simply add a small amount of physix to the spawn system . 
When Items spawn into the map , have them spawn in a few feet above ground and let them drop , using the same physics as when players drop items (H) . 

This will keep everything on the ground, and also allow for no two items to ever really spawn in exactly the same place twice , due to the ability of those items to fall , bounce , roll around on the floor. Would also help add to the "trashy" look of how these houses should look in the environment

 

Now i already know what the trolls will say.. This is not a combat friendly solution...  Which in my opinion is one of the selling points. It does require more forethought and planning in a combat situation 

 

https://youtu.be/7gwZRL9rNmI

Edited December 23, 2015 by J0nathan

[LucidHills 94]

-snip-

i think it should be that when you access inventory you stop , drop to one knee and open your back back on the ground in front of you ,

If no backpack equipped , Then simply stop and a animation of searching pockets,

This will make the Hotbar all the more important for quick access to certain items . 

-snip-

I really like this idea. I personally think the best and most realistic way to do this would be something like this:

If you open your inventory, you should only be able to slow jog/walk rather than sprint. In this state, you can only access quickly accessible slots like your clothes and vest slots. To access your backpack you need to stop moving and take your backpack into your hands or put it on the floor.

I also like animations for accessing the inventory, or at the very least you can't have your gun raised. 

[ColdAtrophy 1850]

I don't mind the vicinity at all , which is weird because I'm all about immersion and realism .... But I do agree , eventually the vicinity window needs to be removed to get us into the world more , so instead of running through military camps staring at our vicinity windows we would be watching everything everywhere , for not only loot but people . Basically it would help everyone in a positive way if we all accepted the removal of it over time , but then again I think that same way about removing 3pp from the game , and many people say it's necessary so I'm not sure how the public will feel ..

 

Exactly what I was thinking. It's likely that removing the Vicinity window would be received in nearly the same way. 

 

I support the idea of removing the Vicinity window, but it would probably be safest to set this aside as an idea to be included in a hardcore server preset along with 1pp, nighttime, rare military weapons, hunting, fishing, stamina, 95% of the map, rain, extreme temperature variations and all the other things that will disappear within weeks of mod tools being released. Despite the fact that this is supposed to be a brutal game, it seems to attract a ton of people who have no interest whatsoever in difficult changes. Best to leave things like this as options to be toggled.

[q.S Sachiel 470]

Biggest issue i see with removing vicinity window is somehow communicating the 'size' of the item and the 'configuration/shape' it assumes in your inventory.

And having this neatly done.

 

Given the restrictions on bagspace/configuration of inventory then i see this being quite difficult to do without garish text over every item.

 

At best, i'd expect some work-around feature similar to what J0nathan said, to restrict movement when in inventory so that you can't just trawl the floorspace.

Edited December 23, 2015 by q.S Sachiel