Should guns spawn loaded?

[anteridy 2]

Dear all,

 

My biggest problem with DayZ is independent spawn of weapon and corresponding mags/ammo.  With numerous types of ammo most of the time I have a backpack full of ammo, mags and weapons and none of them match.

 

Problem especially bad with rifles as I cant place them to backpack and thus had to make tough choice between shit rifle in hand with ammo and good rifle on the ground without one.

 

What's your opininon?

 

 

 

Edited June 24, 2015 by anteridy

[nl 986]

I think it should stay as is. Half the fun of Dayz is the choices you have to make gear wise. Bitter sweet frustration when you just ditched ammo for that gun you wanted but couldn't find and finding it soon after :)

[Whyherro123 2283]

 

Dear all,

 

My biggest problem with DayZ is independent spawn of weapon and corresponding mags/ammo.  With numerous types of ammo most of the time I have a backpack full of ammo, mags and weapons and none of them match.

 

Problem especially bad with rifles as I cant place them to backpack and thus had to make tough choice between shit rifle in hand with ammo and good rifle on the ground without one.

 

What's your opininon?

 

 

 

What is a "shit rifle"? What is a "good rifle"?

 

Any rifle with bullets in it can kill someone, therefore, is a "good rifle". Any rifle without bullets is dead, useless weight, and therefore, a "shit rifle".

 

When the weight and stamina mechanics are actually finished, I expect to see the days of people"carrying every type of ammunition in-game in their backpacks for when they come across a firearm" to end. Bullets weigh A LOT.

 

Should firearms spawn loaded? Sure, sometimes. But not fully loaded. Remember, "someone", likely another survivor that is now dead, had that firearm before you. They likely died with it, shooting at something. Internal magazines could have a few rounds in them, and external magazines could spawn in the firearm, but only have a few bullets.

Edited June 24, 2015 by Whyherro123

[HaseDesTodes 315]

they should spawn with ammo/magazine (with ammo) loaded, with magazine without ammo and without everything

same should go for attachments paintings

[Parazight 1599]

I could be wrong, but I thought the plan was to have firearms spawn with AND without ammo/mags/clips.

[vfxtodd 125]

Personally, I think the issue of ammo and weapons spawning is not as complicated as some people are making it out to be. Chenaraus is 225 sq km in size. That's pretty damn big, in the realm of most video games. Yes, there are other survival games out there, but we're not talking about them.

Randomly spawning ammo and weapons around Chenaraus creates the rarity people are looking for. Not knowing where ammo and weapons will spawn after server restarts forces players to expand their travel plans. Problem solved.

I think your poll was incomplete. A third choice of "sometimes spawns loaded weapons" would've made the poll complete to me. One day you might come across a loaded weapon along the Eastern coast. Another time you might find a loaded weapon far north towards the top of the Chenaraus map.

How about spawning everything randomly around Chenaraus? Food, ammo, weapons and tools? You might spawn and have to survive only on apples, berries and the occasional rabbit.

Throw in randomly spawning players around all of Chenaraus. Now, you not only don't know where you'll spawn as a fresh spawn, but you don't know where the food, ammo or weapons are spawning from where you are. Now you really have to survive on whatever you find around you.

Server hopping? How about making a player spawn at a completely different location if he switches servers? Wouldn't that be helpful to balancing DayZ?

Personally I think random spawns of everything, including players, will go a long way in keeping DayZ a survivalist experience without favoring any one play style.

Edited June 24, 2015 by BulletGarden

[Evil Minion 943]

Problem especially bad with rifles as I cant place them to backpack

Not a problem and especially not a problem with rifles/shotguns as you get a free magic back slot for them.

 

Not everyone should have a gun let alone multiple guns, not everyone with a gun should have ammo for it and not everyone with a gun and ammo for it should have enough to shoot around without second thought.

 

That being said I would like to see more magazines and less ammo boxes spawning.

[Connect3d 29]

I think around half of all guns should spawn with mags and possibly even some ammo. Would gun spawns need to be reduced? Very possibly. But I still think it's the best way to do it. Guns always laying around without magazines make no sense from a realism stand point.

[anteridy 2]

What is a "shit rifle"? What is a "good rifle"?

 

Any rifle with bullets in it can kill someone, therefore, is a "good rifle". Any rifle without bullets is dead, useless weight, and therefore, a "shit rifle".

 

When the weight and stamina mechanics are actually finished, I expect to see the days of people"carrying every type of ammunition in-game in their backpacks for when they come across a firearm" to end. Bullets weigh A LOT.

 

Should firearms spawn loaded? Sure, sometimes. But not fully loaded. Remember, "someone", likely another survivor that is now dead, had that firearm before you. They likely died with it, shooting at something. Internal magazines could have a few rounds in them, and external magazines could spawn in the firearm, but only have a few bullets.

Shit rifles - two barrel shotgun and blaze (both have just two god damn shots per load)

Good rifles - assault rifles (AK etc), carabines etc. Those allow you to take down any target with much higher chance of success.

 

I guess as far as you not deer hunting choice is rather straightforward.

 

But have to agree that third options might the best - spawn random "brew" for each weapon (random mag, random amount of ammo, random attachments etc) + separate parts individually.

[Deathlove 2286]

Shit rifles - two barrel shotgun and blaze (both have just two god damn shots per load)

Thats why you get better with your aim or you just stay away from PVP fights period with the weapon.

 

Blaze is fucking amazing now with a scope. Did you even find a scope and try it out yet before putting this on the list? Its a 100xs more effective weapon now. Iv NEVER had issues with the double barrel shot gun its a deadly weapon.

[Killawife 599]

With and without. Also, there are no shit firearms. Ive killed more people with pistols and shotguns than with automatics. This isnt battflefield so having the best gun doesnt automatically make you win. Mostly you get shot by someone you dont even see and then the weapon doesnt matter one bit. A scope makes a big difference though.

[Deathlove 2286]

With and without. Also, there are no shit firearms. Ive killed more people with pistols and shotguns than with automatics. This isnt battflefield so having the best gun doesnt automatically make you win. Mostly you get shot by someone you dont even see and then the weapon doesnt matter one bit. A scope makes a big difference though.

Sporter .22 is a very deadly middle ground weapon with a scope now to. With a bottle its ubber silent.

[Whyherro123 2283]

Shit rifles - two barrel shotgun and blaze (both have just two god damn shots per load)

Good rifles - assault rifles (AK etc), carabines etc. Those allow you to take down any target with much higher chance of success.

 

I guess as far as you not deer hunting choice is rather straightforward.

 

But have to agree that third options might the best - spawn random "brew" for each weapon (random mag, random amount of ammo, random attachments etc) + separate parts individually.

I've killed far, FAR, FAR more players with the Blaze, double-barrel, and the Pump shotgun than I ever have with an assault rifle. 

 

I am willing to bet that 75% of all combat in Day Z takes place within 300 meters, and 99% takes place under 50 meters. 

 

At those ranges, the Blaze was, and arguably still is, the most "effective" firearm. Laser accurate, with gloriously beautiful iron-sights (usable in both day and night), low recoil, a powerful cartridge, and the ability to -BLAP- anyone that gets close with the double-barrel fire mode. Is the "2 bullet" capacity limiting? Only if you think it is. With proper cover and skirmishing tactics, you can quite easily kill people armed with multiple assault rifle magazines. I've done so, and I find the low-capacity to be quite effectively logistically: you don't waste bullets, and a single box of ammo can last a while. Now that you can mount a scope on it, it is even better.

 

The shotguns are God's own gift to man. Where does most combat take place in Day Z? The cities. A 12 gauge buckshot blast will kill anything it touches in a confined space. I prefer to use a shotgun for almost all of my PvP. With proper shot placement, you can kill the target in one hit (got two kills within 30 seconds in Elektro the other day, at 30 meter range. Turned them into paste), and even if they don't get killed, their legs and arms will be broken, and they will be bleeding heavily at the least.

 

The double-barrel is a monster. Turn the double-barrel firing mode on, and anything in front of you out to 15-20 meters will turn into blood. One-hits kills for DAYS, son. I use a sawed-off DB as a "sidearm" to my Pump. The pump is for range and capacity. I can spank people out to 30-40 meters with the pump shotgun. I "out-shoot" players armed with assault rifles regularly. They rely on spray-n' pray to fill the air with lead in effort to hit me. I pop out from around a wall as they try to reload and make their insides into their outsides.

 

Again, proper tactics and skirmishing is key. You don't want to run around firing at people (which is what I see others doing with assault rifles all the time). Bounce from cover to cover, work the corners, and "stick and move". When I wound someone, I don't immediately close in for the kill unless I am sure they are incapacitated (yet again, I see players with assault rifles play aggressively "poorly" all the time.) I wound them, then wait for them to bandage. As they bandage, I pop around the corner and wax 'em.  

 

Of course, the above tactics is what you should be doing with any weapon, but for some reason, having an assault rifle and a lot of magazines apparently sucks all the brain cells from most players. I can't tell you how many times I've seen players stand in the middle of the street mag-dumping at me. 

Edited June 24, 2015 by Whyherro123

[Whyherro123 2283]

Sporter .22 is a very deadly middle ground weapon with a scope now to. With a bottle its ubber silent.

With a 30rnd banana magazine, the Sporter is a "poor man's assault rifle". Quick on the trigger, STUPID-easy to keep fed, and lightweight.

[anteridy 2]

I've killed far, FAR, FAR more players with the Blaze, double-barrel, and the Pump shotgun than I ever have with an assault rifle. 

 

I am willing to bet that 75% of all combat in Day Z takes place within 300 meters, and 99% takes place under 50 meters. 

 

At those ranges, the Blaze was, and arguably still is, the most "effective" firearm. Laser accurate, with gloriously beautiful iron-sights (usable in both day and night), low recoil, a powerful cartridge, and the ability to -BLAP- anyone that gets close with the double-barrel fire mode. Is the "2 bullet" capacity limiting? Only if you think it is. With proper cover and skirmishing tactics, you can quite easily kill people armed with multiple assault rifle magazines. I've done so, and I find the low-capacity to be quite effectively logistically: you don't waste bullets, and a single box of ammo can last a while. Now that you can mount a scope on it, it is even better.

 

The shotguns are God's own gift to man. Where does most combat take place in Day Z? The cities. A 12 gauge buckshot blast will kill anything it touches in a confined space. I prefer to use a shotgun for almost all of my PvP. With proper shot placement, you can kill the target in one hit (got two kills within 30 seconds in Elektro the other day, at 30 meter range. Turned them into paste), and even if they don't get killed, their legs and arms will be broken, and they will be bleeding heavily at the least.

 

The double-barrel is a monster. Turn the double-barrel firing mode on, and anything in front of you out to 15-20 meters will turn into blood. One-hits kills for DAYS, son. I use a sawed-off DB as a "sidearm" to my Pump. The pump is for range and capacity. I can spank people out to 30-40 meters with the pump shotgun. I "out-shoot" players armed with assault rifles regularly. They rely on spray-n' pray to fill the air with lead in effort to hit me. I pop out from around a wall as they try to reload and make their insides into their outsides.

 

Again, proper tactics and skirmishing is key. You don't want to run around firing at people (which is what I see others doing with assault rifles all the time). Bounce from cover to cover, work the corners, and "stick and move". When I wound someone, I don't immediately close in for the kill unless I am sure they are incapacitated (yet again, I see players with assault rifles play aggressively "poorly" all the time.) I wound them, then wait for them to bandage. As they bandage, I pop around the corner and wax 'em.  

 Actually you kinda prove my point. The reason everyone killed far more people with shotguns and blaze is because they don't need mag and ammo is readily available. If other guns would spawn with mags this ratio would change dramatically.

[Deathlove 2286]

With a 30rnd banana magazine, the Sporter is a "poor man's assault rifle". Quick on the trigger, STUPID-easy to keep fed, and lightweight.

Banana mags will take you awhile to find. I think iv found more 10 round capacity ones than banana. However i think its worth it definitely.

 

And yes, one box gives you 50 rounds so i would have to agree you get the most bang for your search with that gun once you find some magazines.

[Whyherro123 2283]

 Actually you kinda prove my point. The reason everyone killed far more people with shotguns and blaze is because they don't need mag and ammo is readily available. If other guns would spawn with mags this ratio would change dramatically.

 

No, I kill more people with the Blaze and the shotguns is because tactics are FAR MORE IMPORTANT than firearms in this game. With good tactics, a "shit firearm" will defeat a user with poor tactics and a "good firearm", all the time, every time.

 

I've killed assault-rifle wielders with fully-kitted-rifles (all the "best" attachments) and 7+ magazines and hundreds of rounds of loose ammunition. They died because they had poor tactical skill.

 

I've killed players while using the bow. These players usually had firearms. They died because they had poor tactical skill, I emerged victorious because I had superior tactics.

 

Tactics are everything in this game. Firearms are largely irrelevant.

[anteridy 2]

Let's not get out of topic.

 

The question is not which rifle to use or how to fight. The question is - should guns spawn with mags/ammo?

 

Sporters, carabines, assault rifles, all guns - they all need ammo and mags. At the moment you have to stick to blaze/shotgun unless you are willing to run for hours looking for mags and ammo and then do a second run for corresponding rifles. Without proper tents, with constant lags during item pickup it's a nightmare. I understand that rarity is crucial in this game - fine make weapons rare. But having 100% of guns without mags and ammo - what kind of reality is that?

[Whyherro123 2283]

Let's not get out of topic.

 

The question is not which rifle to use or how to fight. The question is - should guns spawn with mags/ammo?

 

Sporters, carabines, assault rifles, all guns - they all need ammo and mags. At the moment you have to stick to blaze/shotgun unless you are willing to run for hours looking for mags and ammo and then do a second run for corresponding rifles. Without proper tents, with constant lags during item pickup it's a nightmare. I understand that rarity is crucial in this game - fine make weapons rare. But having 100% of guns without mags and ammo - what kind of reality is that?

 

Almost everyone in this thread has stated ( and so have the devs, for that matter): yes and no. There will be some firearms that spawn with nothing, some with a magazine with a few bullets, and some with some attachments, but no ammunition.

 

Remember, this game is supposed to be a "survival game", not some FPS Deathmatch. PvP, yes. Constant battling, no. You aren't supposed to be fully geared, with assault-rifle, 10+ magazines and ammunition, and assault vest and camp clothing within an hour of play.

[anteridy 2]

50/50 at the moment in votes. If representative, poll indicates that 50% of players sort of unhappy about current system of weapon spawn.

 

In my opinion ratio should be 80/20 in favor of old system. My guess is that those who didn't like the current system went to B4 or similar in despair of finding a weapon to shoot. This in turn increased the ratio of superhardcore lovers willing to spend hours getting macarov pistol to work to nearly half of population. Well done dev team.

Edited June 24, 2015 by anteridy

[Deathlove 2286]

50/50 at the moment in votes. If representative, poll indicates that 50% of players sort of unhappy about current system of weapon spawn.

That 50% of players is only a very small fraction of the majority of the population though. Allot of ppl just look at this poll and pass because its just been done to death. There are only a total of 17 ppl that even bothered to participate in this.

[John-Russell 6]

Haven't read much above but i think there should be a chance of guns spawning with say, half a mag of ammo in them because it would make sense. Also they should have a chance of spawning with attachments already on them because when you buy a gun you usually get attachments for it right?

[atempleton 123]

On what planet do the Blaze and Double Barrel suck? They are insanely lethal doing high damage with a quick follow up. They will kill your ass in an instant, you just need to learn not to miss.

[Whyherro123 2283]

That 50% of players is only a very small fraction of the majority of the population though. Allot of ppl just look at this poll and pass because its just been done to death. There are only a total of 17 ppl that even bothered to participate in this.

 

This is something many people on this forum that make poll-threads apparently don't understand.

 

The amount of people on this forum vs the number of people who play Day Z is a rather small ratio. Also, the number of "active posters" (IE you and I) on this forum vs  the number of "lurkers" that don't post or vote, just read threads, is also a rather small ratio. Finally, the number of people who vote on these polls vs the number who read the choices and go "UGH NOT AGAIN" is also a rather small ratio.

 

Therefore, even when you get a rather large number of votes, you can't really draw any conclusions from it. The sample size is too small for that. You can't even determine a "standard deviation" with only a small number of choices, or even with only one poll. These poll results are essentially meaningless.

[Deathlove 2286]

Haven't read much above but i think there should be a chance of guns spawning with say, half a mag of ammo in them because it would make sense. Also they should have a chance of spawning with attachments already on them because when you buy a gun you usually get attachments for it right?

Depends on what the attachment is though if you ask me. Like i think maybe 20% spawns for most rifles should have a chance to spawn with a civilian scope already attached to them however they should come in various wear conditions. Same with mags and the capacity that is inside of them attached to the gun. In fact i think you should be able to find single chambered bullets in the gun as well even if there is no mag attached. But those should be rare %s as well.